Originally posted by Pivotelite
TERA and probably hop on GW2 to do a little WvW when i'm bored.

Same, tried NW, played control mage kinda fun but these will be the two I stick with until EQNext, then CU depending how EQNext is.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Mkilbride

http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/general-discussion-30/ben-kuchera-starts-twitter-smear-campagin-against--576873/?page=1

 

/thread

I'm not sure how, could you please explain how a completely unrelated incident is relevant to this thread or topic, let alone ends discussion on it?

 

In any case the article in the OP is correct. The spam campaign has already taken its toll and will continue to take its toll.

1) It has driven off a great number of potential backers. Many fence sitters have been urked by the behavoir of CU die hard fans. I myself was a fence sitter at one point until these die hard fans put me squarely in the "No" camp with the excessive spam and disruptive trollish behavoir.

2) CU die hards have breed their own haters. Whether or not this game gets funded doesn't matter now. What should have been a niche game that flew under most peoples radars has now become this thing to despise. Professional Journalists and Reviewers as well aren't going to very forgiving of all the harassment and neither will gamers. The die hards have effectively created a situation where there is no win condition. If the game gets funded it has nothing but an uphill battle now. 

 

This type of behavoir has really put everyone in a bit of a bind. If the game funds and is successful it is likely that others may get the idea that spamming, trolling, and harassing News sites, gaming forums, players while they are in other games, and so on works. 

 

You can try and write off what the article says because of an unrelated inccident if you want, but keep in mind his views and opinions on the subject are shared by a great deal of people. 

 

The constant begging every where you look from the same group of people. 

The constant trolling and derailing of threads that question design decisions and the lack of info every where you look. 

The constant attempts at insulting those that don't want to pledge or simply haven't made a decision on whether they want to back it or not every where you look. 

Believe it or not, thanks to this die hard campaign many if not most are sick of CU. They are sick of hearing about it, they are sick of seeing anything about it, and they are sick of the games fans. 

 

In any case, I wish you guys luck only because it's in my nature to do so. Lets hope that you 1) haven't managed to keep the game from funding and 2) haven't managed to tick of so many people that CUs future is as bleak as I think it could be even if it does get funded. 

How big was your sample size when you ran the numbers for the poll to get these absolutes you speak of in your post.  I mean you sound like you have it all figured out, why the game wasn't backed, why the backers who haven't backed aren't... I'd love to see your polling data!

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Koroshiya

to be fair he never said they released at the same time, he put them together because both instances saw a huge player drop in daoc.  First with the release of ToA then with the release of WoW....

To be fair, DAoC was growing in population for over 3 years before any "exodus". Which is more than... literally every AAA MMORPG in the last 7 years can say.

And biggest exodus?? Vanguard, AoC, SWG after NGE, Tabula Rasa, freaking SWTOR, all much bigger.

What does that have to do with my post?  Thanks though I guess for the random tidbit of knowledge that had nothing to do with the quote you are quoting! =)  I was correcting Mr. Saxon, for trying to correct someone who didn't need correcting in the first place.  I think you might have meant to quote the post that Saxon made in which he tries to say MJ never produced a popular game maybe?

Originally posted by Saxonblade

Originally posted by belatucadros

Originally posted by Saxonblade

Originally posted by Dahkoht

Originally posted by Sebali

Originally posted by GwapoJosh
That's exactly why I didn't back this game.. The CU fanboys started annoying the fuck out of me with their constant spamming of pointless threads and the constant begging.  I'll still play the game when it launches though..

i have a horrible feeling this is going to make the GW2 fanboy spamming look like lil school girls antics. we're gonna have years of this CU crap to deal with.

and i have a feeling the game will be just as much of a letdown as GW2 was

I've said in other threads this is the first group I've seen to surpass the early beta Vanguard fanatics and McQuaid worshippers.

I thought I'd never see that surpassed.

I know right, and the funny thing is this guy has never made an MMO that had positive growth after six months, in fact had the largest mass exodus in MMO history.

DAOC's numbers didn't really drop until WOW/TOA, to be fair.

TOA came out way before WoW, to be fair  October 28, 2003, so that is totaly irreleveant, WoW was released over a year later. Why do so many uninformed fans say ToA was in reponse to WoW.

to be fair he never said they released at the same time, he put them together because both instances saw a huge player drop in daoc.  First with the release of ToA then with the release of WoW....

Originally posted by Tuktz
I see it as a couple of fans got a little over zealous with their requests of major gaming sites to offer coverage of CU since they haven't been, and rather than handle it more professionally PA wrote that article in a kind of whiny "anything I don't want to read I consider spam". I mean isn't it editors jobs to sift through stuff to present the news? So in a way it seemed like whining about what they do.....

not a rabid CU fan, was a rabid DAoC fan but I haven't emailed anyone or backed them yet.... 

with that said, I agree here and it might just get me to support CU even if only at 25 dollar level.  Penny Arcade, quit your whining.  You are in existance today because of gamers who have the kinda passion CU gamers do.  If you don't like dealing with end user spam, don't get involved in the industry.  It's a freaking given that most gamers who care enough to email sometimes will go overboard.  Anyone who works in the industry knows, if they get important enough, will have to deal with this kind of situation.  Maybe they should stick to just writing comics then and not reviewing games or having a website.

The only thing that would encourage me to play eve again is if they dropped the capital ship fights and went back to battleships and lower combat, dunno... just lost interest when SNIGG went from pirates to alliance humpers, alliance was fun at the peak of my time during RIT seige but it got boring...  

most people seemed to do complexes in capitals and gave up on pirating so I ended up ratting in 0.0..  meh.  

Sounds interesting, there are a few things about this game that have me on the fence.. I've seen GW2 put out a AAA Title that didn't require a sub, so they will have to do something pretty epic to make me pay a monthly again.

But DAoC was pretty epic, so if there is a lore, and a time period of game that could do it, it would be a mix of Pre-TOA, mix of some Catacombs, DAoC.  I have faith that he can make the game, I just am not so sure his strength in staying with that vision is there.

Albion Bedevere:  Outcasts can't remember if we spelled it with a K and The United after that when I wasn't playing as serious to keep up with Berkie and Crew.  Sorsabal was my wizard, had a pally, sorc, inf, cleric, necro and reaver at max level.

Midgard Triston:  Can't remember the guild but I played a Pac Healer and skald.

Hibernia Palomides and percival:  Lia Fail at launch then joined Blue something or other toward the end... nice guys but never really did much as the game was already dead really when I joined them.  Koroshiya the Keen bow Ranger, also had eld, chanter etc. etc.

if he is against F2p then he is ignorant.

How much money I spent on DAoC?  5 years @ 15 a month = 900 bucks.

I spent about 1/3rd of that in 3 months of GW2, Tera.  I also subbed to Tera AFTER it went f2p because I wouldn't try it until it did.  Lots of people today are moving away from sub based games because NO developer has ever delivered on their full list of promises, yet we still get buggy content, shitty patches and bad balancing all while paying 15 a month.

I think the reality is, he doesn't like F2P because he is scared.  He is scared his game won't hold up to the hype of what DAoC used to be, it won't hold up and he won't make "any" money.  The reality is, people like to be micro-spent to death, I am guilty of this too.  Look at the xbox, ps3 BS that happened at launch.  People cried over how expensive the PS3 was because of its initial price tag, yet when the 360 was bought with all the same compenents it was 100 more... the difference?  PS3 users didn't get to pick and choose what they wanted on their plate, Xbox did.

How does that work in mmo's?  The same way.  If I am spending 15 bucks a month, I won't be spending money on anything else in the game because I feel like you are already getting money, in games like Guild Wars 2, where in reality you can't buy a "win" button I still spent money WEEKLY for other things.  It's sad because the subscription is exactly why I won't play Camelot Unchained.  I think the non sub model is better for players, better for developers (and yes, I worked at SCE for 10 years, Playstation Underground forum handle was Faetyl for anyone who doesn't believe me, I dealt with the online cheating systems and cheat devices with SCERT) so until developers stop trying to earn their paycheck by forcing payment of me monthly, I would rather reward them for allowing me to pick and choose when I want to spend my money.

If they make a game worth my time, ill invest a hundred every 3-4 months in f2p games.  Its sad that just like ToA he is going to miss the boat on the community, and the genre and end up being a game that loses face when it has to switch to f2p 3 months down the road.

only issues I ve had were the "leaping" abilities causing random tp's and the email bug.

Played my engineer the first 2 hours, and theif the last 3 both in Wv3 and sPVP.  Wasn't that bad at all, there was some rubberbanding at first until they reset wv3 the first time, then as about 20 minutes passed I didn't feel any hiccups the rest of the playtime.

I had a 48 maurauder I quit playing:

What killed it for me?  The lack of story choices making any difference in the story.  WoW style combat, with AION style questing  where worlds "look" big, then you realize they are just small funneled area's of quest hubs that go from A to B to C to D then to Planet 2, A to B to C etc.  I hated that PvP was boring and had no real influence on the world around you, Space was an absolute joke "tempest" style round about design.

No depth, planets all felt the same just different background.  Classes lacked any inspiration or feeling.  Lacking key features of a themepark (Group finders, Raid finders, interesting boss fights, player/guild housing)

The only thing I really liked in Swtor was the companion system, Orange Gear with enhancements idea, and the crafting.  I feel like if they had spent half the time they spent worrying about making it try to feel like a movie they could have actually put worthy content in.  The issue for me was that I wasn't willing to pay a monthly fee for it, but now with other options coming so close I wouldn't go back if those things aren't changed even if they make it free.

Originally posted by Sandbox

Originally posted by Koroshiya

Originally posted by stevebmbsqd

SWG was a world. SWTOR was a game. As a matter of fact, SWG was the last online "world". Even though I hadn't played it in years, I was sad to see it go. People always wonder why some vets get choked up about pre-NGE SWG. It is because it was more than a game to them.

Not everyone plays the game to be a hero. Lots of people wanted to be the "moisture farmer" or the weaponsmith. Some wanted to just be a cantina owner and organize social events or a mayor and plot out their own city. Quests weren't required for those people. All of the tools for content were right there. The problem was Sony just didn't realize it. They had their own special niche. There isn't a game that is out or that is about to come out that is even close other than Arche Age.

exactly.

 

But also, I think people who hated on the NGE launch (Me included) should have given it another look after they worked out the systems (a year after)  I hated them and that game for what they did, but honestly after I came back and they had instances in, gear tapes, the token system for role players, the game was/still would be the best thing on the market.

 

The worst part is, people who never really gave ita  chance after NGE had been cleaned up and improved missed out on everything I see them whining for in a new game.

I tried it when the new TC opened, did 8 Master Pilots and crafting. But I could not stand the combat or the Benny Hill movement. After 3 months I could not still stand the combat, and I quit.

Give me a fresh server, 250 skill points with the original 32+ professions and the old movements/animations with the NGE contents and I will play.

there is no question to the amount of agreement I have with you on the skills, but the fact remains, NGE before shut down was better then any game on the market today even missing that killer class combo system.

Originally posted by stevebmbsqd

SWG was a world. SWTOR was a game. As a matter of fact, SWG was the last online "world". Even though I hadn't played it in years, I was sad to see it go. People always wonder why some vets get choked up about pre-NGE SWG. It is because it was more than a game to them.

Not everyone plays the game to be a hero. Lots of people wanted to be the "moisture farmer" or the weaponsmith. Some wanted to just be a cantina owner and organize social events or a mayor and plot out their own city. Quests weren't required for those people. All of the tools for content were right there. The problem was Sony just didn't realize it. They had their own special niche. There isn't a game that is out or that is about to come out that is even close other than Arche Age.

exactly.

But also, I think people who hated on the NGE launch (Me included) should have given it another look after they worked out the systems (a year after)  I hated them and that game for what they did, but honestly after I came back and they had instances in, gear tapes, the token system for role players, the game was/still would be the best thing on the market.

The worst part is, people who never really gave ita  chance after NGE had been cleaned up and improved missed out on everything I see them whining for in a new game.

Originally posted by tyfon

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

You dont have to do all quests/hearts/events, if quests dont suit your epicness you can pass them and move on.   there are more then enough epic quests

The problem with this is that if you skip anything on the map you will be lagging behind your story quest and have to grind out repeat DE or whatever.

I had problems even with completing all hearts/vistas etc on the map I still had to repeat som DEs 4-5 times before getting to my story mission level. The solution is apparently to play other races zones or buy xp boosts.

They should really give more xp for the public quests as they were the best part of pve. I liked them in WAR and Rift too. But I don't want to have to repeat them too many times.

 

They can just remove the hearts from the game, all of those I tried sucked big time. Replace them with fun public quests instead.

in the Asura area, I never repeated one and I hit 20 before the end of the beta weekend by just going to different POI's and finding random events, I only did two hearts the whole time and never "repeated" anything.  What zone were you in?

Originally posted by Leucent

Originally posted by otinanai123

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by rygard49

I'm hoping it resembles the RvR experience from DAoC (which I doubt due to no 8v8 roaming), but without RRs and alternate advancement skills as a reward it seems like a very hollow replica. The only bonus for winning is a buff for your realm. I don't really see the point in that.

 

 

so suprised how many can't see "fun" as a reasonable reason to pvp.. i played fps games for years for no other reason but that.  Played street fighter, tekken, and so many others just for the fact it was fun and I wanted to get better. If the design of combat and maps are fun to me that's all the incentive I need

Did you play daoc? Did you have fun taking keeps? Would you have fun taking keeps if they didn't award rps? How many weeks/months do you think you could do this before getting bored?

I played DAOC from release till a few months ago. I actually have re subbed due to Relic Raid changes etc. (Alot of fun btw) I can honestly say I could care less about rps, rank, abilities etc. I know that AN will add more to it, and can guarentee, yes you can quote me on it, there will be a DF type dungeon, in the near future. I had alot more fun taking keeps, relics etc, with my guild/alliance then I did worrying about some stupid rps etc.

Exactly!

Long time player of DAoC, 5 accounts, 15 characters all dressed in top end templates with RR6-12 on all 3 different realms.

As pretty much a DAoC only player who hated every other mmo after EQ with a passion, this game was a breathe of fresh air, I could actually do what I want with out having to grind to have fun.  DAoC was my lifes blood for years, I wasn't even interested in GW2 until I got in this last weekend and went out to Wv3.

I got the same blood rush I got when doing seige in DAoC, only this time I wasn't focused on my RR progresison more then anything else, and I think thats what I like most about GW2 while playing the last thing I cared about was my level, all I did was roam around enjoy the game and by the end of the weekend I was 25.

Also, people please stop comparing games that aren't even out yet in content to games that have been out for years.  Comapre it to the OG EQ on Launch, DAoC on launch, WoW on launch, whatever game AT launch.  Sure, the SYSTEMS should be there from previous games, but you can't shove 10 years of content into a game that is releasing in less then a month just to be on par with titles that have been around longer then some of you have been able to walk.

Originally posted by LouieTuesday

Originally posted by Koroshiya

Originally posted by LouieTuesday

Originally posted by Tarka

Originally posted by LouieTuesday

What should be improved...how about having a point to the game?

Gear and stats and all that scale in W v W.........so yea log in and youre done. I really enjoy taking my time and sinking 50 hours into a game before i even get max level. I cant do that in this game..I just dont get it. If an actual level 80 is going to struggle to kill an actual level 17..whats the point of going to 80? Everythings practically even. 15% bonus MAYBE for the 80 for being a real 80..

I'm going out on a limb here and guess that GW2 is a bit like SWTOR in when it comes to "auto level balancing" for pvp i.e. players levels are auto changed to "level the playing field" but the players still retain whatever abilities they have gained up until that point, albeit scaled appropriate for the pvp battle.

Therefore, in theory, a player of a particular level in pvp will have more abilities/traits/utilties at their disposal than another player at a lower level (giving them a bit of an "edge").  Hence the "point" still remains in playing the game:  i.e. level up and gain abilities that (in theory) should be useful in pvp matches.  

Is that not the case with GW2? 

Maybe im confused? Everyone is saying were always on a level playing field and that this game is skill based.  If what you are saying is true, then im going to get stomped early on by people who use the cash shop to get 80 first? Now i dont even want to buy to try

How are they going to cash shop to 80 first?

Exp boosters. You KNOW whole guilds are going to abuse them and get to 80 fast and just kill lowbies and if its not a level playing field like i thought..i dont want to be killed all day.

I might be concerned if it wasn't already so easy to level, the exp boosters at least the ones I got as drops in game were for mob kills only, and honestly you get a majority of your exp not from AE grinding but events so yea, while it will help (or maybe the potions dropped are different then the ones in store I didn't check) it won't be cost effective imo.

Originally posted by LouieTuesday

Originally posted by Tarka

Originally posted by LouieTuesday

What should be improved...how about having a point to the game?

Gear and stats and all that scale in W v W.........so yea log in and youre done. I really enjoy taking my time and sinking 50 hours into a game before i even get max level. I cant do that in this game..I just dont get it. If an actual level 80 is going to struggle to kill an actual level 17..whats the point of going to 80? Everythings practically even. 15% bonus MAYBE for the 80 for being a real 80..

I'm going out on a limb here and guess that GW2 is a bit like SWTOR in when it comes to "auto level balancing" for pvp i.e. players levels are auto changed to "level the playing field" but the players still retain whatever abilities they have gained up until that point, albeit scaled appropriate for the pvp battle.

Therefore, in theory, a player of a particular level in pvp will have more abilities/traits/utilties at their disposal than another player at a lower level (giving them a bit of an "edge").  Hence the "point" still remains in playing the game:  i.e. level up and gain abilities that (in theory) should be useful in pvp matches.  

Is that not the case with GW2? 

Maybe im confused? Everyone is saying were always on a level playing field and that this game is skill based.  If what you are saying is true, then im going to get stomped early on by people who use the cash shop to get 80 first? Now i dont even want to buy to try

How are they going to cash shop to 80 first?

I only had a couple major complaints really and they aren't that big.

1)  Let me move chat window tabs off the chat window so I can have chat and damage up at the same time (If this was available I couldn't find where)

2)  When I change keybindings, update the UI to reflect those changes don't just remove the identifier from the hotkey, that might sound like something that shouldn't matter, but Its like I said my issues weren't too "big" to begin with.

3) For the love of god, let me place a ground target while using mouse look.  In other words, why can I not use my mouse look to zoom behind me, while holding it down hit my Glue Gun (Ground target AE snare) and pan the camera behind me and while STILL holding down the R Mouse, let me click the L Mouse and place.. it doesn't.  This could be fixed by someones earlier suggestion of letting me turn off camera snap.

4)  Que system for Spvp.  This one is the only thing that pissed me off bad.  Why in the hell are you going to put me in a game when I click "Play" instead of choosing a server, where one team has 1 guy against 5 and the score is 495 to 5.  Come on now, that is rediculous.  At that point the auto balancing should recognize any matches where the points are "un-recoverable" it won't add more to that game until the round ends.  I can't count on two hands how many times I was placed into games where I was in it for 10-30 seconds before it ended and then I get stuck on a team with 1 guy against those same 5 and it never auto balances more people to our team so I had to quit out.  I would also like to see in the server browser the amount of players in each class type, I am tired of joining a game with 6 Rifle warriors and 2 thieves.  

#4 is the biggest issue to me by FAR. 

Final Input:

As someone who was not really interested in this game, the last BWE really got me excited, also, like someone else said if you are going to combine servers, they should have taken this time to test out max players in Wv3, and increased the amount allowed.  I also would like to see a week long open beta where they let anyone play.  I really think companies are shooting themselves in the foot with potential buyers like myself, who will never preorder a game with out a trial or open "stress" test to check it out first, I used to be able to but after being burned by mmo after mmo I don't anymore and I think they lose a lot of potential customers by only allowing random key events and preorders.  

I was forced to take this key by a buddy who wanted me to check it out, I told him it was a waste cause I had zero interest in playing it...   Glad he did because I enjoyed it a lot and preordered this sunday.  Hope others out there who were on the fence had friends with an extra key to push them to try it.

Originally posted by LouieTuesday

What should be improved...how about having a point to the game?

Gear and stats and all that scale in W v W.........so yea log in and youre done. I really enjoy taking my time and sinking 50 hours into a game before i even get max level. I cant do that in this game..I just dont get it. If an actual level 80 is going to struggle to kill an actual level 17..whats the point of going to 80? Everythings practically even. 15% bonus MAYBE for the 80 for being a real 80..

That is a choice, you CAN still do it but you CHOOSE not to.  Big Difference is in other games you are FORCED if you don't want to pve to max level to pvp in this game you aren't you can do it either way.

plus you might be auto leveled to 80 by stats but not by skill unlocks, gear or bonuses (for Wv3) in structured pvp and tournaments you have all the same choices for gear as the people you are playing against sure, but in Wv3 the abilities unlocked at max level, the gear increase will give you better stats and tactical choices then an Enemy who is auto leveled to 80 with level 15 locked skills.

SWG, Swtor, MMO's are what I am talking about because last time I checked this was an mmo forum, not a forum about FPS, Over the shoulder Shooters or RPG's.

In the MMO world, I stand by what I said.  If the problem of "decent" game makers turning out crap products has only variable that is the same between those companies is the IP holder, the problem is most likely the fact that they try to micromanage parts of the development process they shouldn't be.  The point was, they should ONLY be worried about protecting their uverse and IP, not about game mechanics and story feel.