was just thinking of ways to encourage more small group action similar to what was seen in true open world pvp in other games. The intersection between pvp and pve leads to unexpected small group and one on one situations. There design prevents this in the interest of preventing ganking and providing a consistent theme of cooperation to the world. However I do believe that a few purely PVE like DE may draw people away from the zerg and allow for a more interesting experience in WVWVW overall.

Originally posted by GamerUntouch

They gotta do something, because right now most of them are nothing.

 

There's a neutral mob that takes -902-92-092-09039339388383 years to kill and gives nothing.

The PVE just needs to be a little more compelling. 

It doesnt even have to really tie into the PVP at all but it would be a bonus if it does. 

I believe that WvW may benefit from an increase in the number of PvE activities on each map and this would improve the quality of the PVP. 

Although it seems counter intuitive, more PVE equals more oppurtinuty for small group action in off the beaten path areas of WvW even One on ones that dont immeditaely turn into zerg fests. 

THe only Caveat being that the PVE needs to be totally optional so that people who are not into pvp wont be feeling that they have to take the risk of being "ganked" while completing some required daily PvE activity. 

in all seriousness the game is worth the money. With starting features such as these its gonna have an amazing lifecycle. 

So it doesnt hurt to get your foot in the door you will be around for the future without a subscription. 

Originally posted by hikaru77

Originally posted by hypersan

Guildwars 2 is a skill based game. It does this very well. It punishes the unskilled with death after death until it becomes tedious for them and they choose to quit or improve. It does not give any pointers towards improvement instead it maintains its punishment until you figure out how to play it. 

Many people are turned off by that. Many people just are not skilled enough to play this build. When you do figure things out and find your rythmn it feels so awesome because you are so much better than those around you. 

Those who dont understand how to actually play this game will look at the pve and think its very simplistic. Those who do understand will see complexity within complexity. Arenanet has done a ridculously good job of makeing an incrediblly worhtwhile game. Unfortunately many people are not worhty of it and will never see the real depth. 

Maybe they set the bar too high for the mainstream. Maybe they need to find away to reward skill and slow down on the punishment of the unskilled. 

Two friends and my girlfriend wathced me playing beta theyboth saw what i had to do to kill a mob and immediately realised that there is no way that they could sit and do that mob after mob it would just take too much concentration. 

It is very difficult for someone used to unwinding and relaxing while playing a game that allows you to facerool a few dailies and log feeling accomplished to come to terms with the focus concentration and continuous awareness necessary to play this game. 

 

Guild wars is a very serious game very rewardng for the skilled. Very punishing for the unskilled or new. 

 

People keep talking about ¨gw2 is an skill based game¨, as a veteran pvper i found gw2 pvp and gameplay just too easy. Is all about ¨press 1¨ and wait for cds, people talking about ¨the skill you need to change weapons on combat¨, Is just one Button ffs, what are you talking about?, it cant be more easy.  Seriously dont know what games you have been playing but if you really thing that gw2 combat is ¨Hard¨ and just for a elite of players, sry but  you are really not that good.  So far gw2 looks fun, but casual,  Seriously the fanboys gonna hurt this game badly

Well if you are that good then you just are that good dude. Maybe you are in the top 2% of people if so disregard this post its not meant for peopl of your obvious skills.

The fact is that in events the most common thing to see are tons and tons of corpses on the ground players who have died repeatedly ..brute forcing the event literally throwing their bodies into a zerg like grinder. Instead of adapting they continue playngn the game the way THEY THINK the game should be played. But hey they seem to be having fun. 

will theynerf the difficulty?

i definately think so.

>.>

im not trolling..

Guildwars 2 is a skill based game. It does this very well. It punishes the unskilled with death after death until it becomes tedious for them and they choose to quit or improve. It does not give any pointers towards improvement instead it maintains its punishment until you figure out how to play it. 

Many people are turned off by that. Many people just are not skilled enough to play this build. When you do figure things out and find your rythmn it feels so awesome because you are so much better than those around you. 

Those who dont understand how to actually play this game will look at the pve and think its very simplistic. Those who do understand will see complexity within complexity. Arenanet has done a ridculously good job of makeing an incrediblly worhtwhile game. Unfortunately many people are not worhty of it and will never see the real depth. 

Maybe they set the bar too high for the mainstream. Maybe they need to find away to reward skill and slow down on the punishment of the unskilled. 

Two friends and my girlfriend wathced me playing beta theyboth saw what i had to do to kill a mob and immediately realised that there is no way that they could sit and do that mob after mob it would just take too much concentration. 

It is very difficult for someone used to unwinding and relaxing while playing a game that allows you to facerool a few dailies and log feeling accomplished to come to terms with the focus concentration and continuous awareness necessary to play this game. 

Guild wars is a very serious game very rewardng for the skilled. Very punishing for the unskilled or new. 

Having to move around consistently was what made tera so exhausting for me. Especially in dungeons. 

Sigh but to be honest if you love fantasy novels and want to play like you are in one then this is the game for it, no tanks just distraction movement evasion each boss battle could be written down as a n awesome action sequence with numerous near death experience with everyone getting in to do damage help someone and setup combo's.

Sounds refreshing, the older I get though the more difficult it may be to play this and be competitive. IT may signal my wthdrawl from the genre all together if i find my skill cap too low. 

Written as a fairy tale..neat.

New approach. 

Originally posted by Khealler

MMOs are for most players also about social interaction.

Time Spend vs Reward is a weird motivation to play a mmo. For example in World of Warcraft I levelled a Holy Priest from 1 to 60, with only a holy spec. It took me about 40 seconds to kill a single mob versus a rogue friend who could sometimes oneshot  the same mob or only spend 6 seconds to kill it. Blizzard ripped me off.  

Another weird motivation is that gear > skill. You really want to be the best because your gear is better? I prefer to be better because I have better skills, better understanding of the mechanics and better teamwork.

Getting back to rewards (items). I cannot count the hours I have spend in Molten Core to help a friend getting a specific drop. Either it was to get that one drop for Thunderfury or just farming mobs for fiery cores to increase reputation, so he could get recipes to craft fire resistance gear. I was not there for myself, nor the other 38 players. We did it to help eachother out. Getting rewarded by gear that dropped was just a bonus.

I'm not in GW2 beta, so I can not tell for sure, but it's hard to imagine that you can only farm nodes as endgame.

The prestige that one obtained by having thunderfury will be mirrored by having very very very rare weapon skins. 

The weapons will of course have there damage normalised in with all other level 80 gear. It will be difficult for 38 people to help one get this weapon skin because the most exclusive stuff seems to come from 5 mans. These 5 mans currently have no room for carrying another person who is not skillful therefore each member of the party needs to be on point at all times. 

The loot is still there however it wont make you more powerful. You cannot progress your charachter in this manner. 

Charachter progression in this game is where you have been and what you have seen and the proof to show it. 

Elitism will exist and may very well be worst than in WOW

Originally posted by Ankur

Originally posted by hypersan

Originally posted by Ankur

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by L0C0Man

Gear does matter, but it isn't that difficult to obtain (like in GW1), meaning that the guy that was just boosted to 80 will still not be as powerful as you are if you got to 80 the regular way because you'll have unlocked/gotten more skills and better gear than he does. If you've been 80 for a while and the new guy got to 80 recently, however, the gear gap will not be as big as it would be in WoW, for example, if there is one at all.

Incorrect. If you go to the Mists (PvP zones) you get given a full set of level 80 gear and full access to all skills and traits. A level 1 who is bolstered to 80 is the same as a level 80 player.

I really doubt that since that lvl 80 will have more skills to choose from compared to lvl 1 character and what lvl 80 is wearing will be definitely better than what lvl 1 is wearing. Even GW1 had stats on armors even though not extreme to the extent we see in other MMOS but GW2 has stats on gears.

No 

gear will be the same. 

only looks will change. 

I would like to see that once the game releases because i doubt that what lvl 1 is wearing will have same stats as what lvl 80 is wearing not to mention the poll of skills avilable to lvl 80 compared to lvl 1 player.

 

 

OK :) we will see I guess.

Originally posted by dadante666

gw2 gear matter on pve cause of armor and stat in pvp what matter is stat cause evryone is adjust to lvl 80 whit his max atribute armor and hp.

like gw 1  in pve and in pvp peopel gonna look for unique armor skin nothing more

 

What amuses me is that this late in the devlopment cycle one of the things that made GW2 unique form the start is just being discovered by some. 

I suspect that a large proportion of the fan base have been reading things into GW2 that the automatically expect to be there because its a fantasy based MMORPG. 

Unfortunately what the expect may not be what is delivered. 

Originally posted by Ankur

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by L0C0Man

Gear does matter, but it isn't that difficult to obtain (like in GW1), meaning that the guy that was just boosted to 80 will still not be as powerful as you are if you got to 80 the regular way because you'll have unlocked/gotten more skills and better gear than he does. If you've been 80 for a while and the new guy got to 80 recently, however, the gear gap will not be as big as it would be in WoW, for example, if there is one at all.

Incorrect. If you go to the Mists (PvP zones) you get given a full set of level 80 gear and full access to all skills and traits. A level 1 who is bolstered to 80 is the same as a level 80 player.

I really doubt that since that lvl 80 will have more skills to choose from compared to lvl 1 character and what lvl 80 is wearing will be definitely better than what lvl 1 is wearing. Even GW1 had stats on armors even though not extreme to the extent we see in other MMOS but GW2 has stats on gears.

No 

gear will be the same. 

only looks will change. 

Its just a different way of doing things. There are many other MMORPG's that have the classic mechanics that remain very addictive. 

Yes its just like any other game for example a shooter like COD but set in a fantasy world with some tab targetting elements. RPG elements and a personal story line. You can think of it as a novel that you write as you progress through your personal story. Most will play until the novelty wears off there is no carrot. Just like in Gears of war you play to get new skins and the satisfaction of being the best. 

As a vehicle for delivering story content its like a serialised novel. In game terms think of the expansions not in terms of adding power but in terms of adding more story that you play through and discover between your dynamic events and you personal story. 

They are trying to carve out a niche in the mmo space which downplays power and progression and highlights story.

Personal skill level is the only differentiator between characters as the more skilled will acquire better looking gear. 

If you are not the most skilled and for some reason cannot improve your skill level there is no grind through time option to be able to display gear which displays a higher skill level than you have. If there was such an option then it would render skill based progresson somewhat obsolete. 

IN the end like in guild wars the highly skilled players will end up playing the highly skilled players for months to come. The less skillful will fall to the wayside in frustration or go back to the games that give them instant gratfication for time spent. 

That is untl the next expansion. 

Arena net will not dumb down the games or the super hard dungeons because there is no reason for them to. A box sale is a box sale. The most i see them doing is inserting a cash shop option to improve your looks but it probably would not be the same exact armor that you would get for being really really skilled. 

Originally posted by Kyleran

To address the points in the OP.

Regarding mounts (or lack thereof).  I was playing the Tera beta this weekend and specifically made sure I got to level 11 (bless the Dev's there) to see what it was like to get a mount.  People like mounts.  I like mounts.  Removing them has nothing to do with fear of change, I just enjoy mounts. (esp flying ones)

Regarding the trinity.  OK, you got me here. Since I've not played a MMORPG that didn't employ some form of trinity mechanic, I remain wary of this change. Did I mention my preferred class is Dedicated Healer?  So it might be understandable that I'm not looking forward to this "improvement" in MMORPG gaming, but hey, I'll give it a shot and see how it goes.

Raiding - I hate raiding with a passion, so no love lost from me on this front.  I'm looking forward to the Dynamic content and some of the other innovative content the game is bringing to replace it, so I'm happy with this development.

One the OP didn't really mention, the flat progresssion curve at the top, where in terms of character power everyone can be "equal".  I'm really skeptical about this one, because to me MMORPG's are all about continuous character advancement, particuarly in terms of actual power (vs fluff/cosmetics/titles) and it's this aspect of GW2 that makes me think its more of a short term game for me.

What can I say, I enjoy the endless spiral of progression (and no, gear progression isn't at all what I'm talking about, think more along the lines of how DAOC did it with realm ranks/abilities or even EVE)

So yes, in some ways it's hard to discard conventions or even features that I've come to enjoy over the years in my favorite genre, but that doesn't mean I'm not willing to try something different to see if I'm going to like it.

 WELL SAID

The developers of GW2 hav decided to do things differently. THey have a very specific agenda as set out in their manifesto. Evidently this has resonated with many people.

Reminds me of the hippy movement of the sixties...."You just dont get it maaaaann, the trinity is whats holding us downnnn dude" LOL 

Thats cool I didnt think there was anything particularly wrong with power progression feeling powerful, lusiting after more powerful items that i worked my ass off for. Even if i dint have the skills or ability to get the most powerful item. The idea that there was a more powerful item that i may one day get KEPT ME PLAYING!

 

What they are doing with power and progression is directed at the heart of what made these games so addicting and popular to begin with. They think that this is a good business model. 

 

I can assure you that every other publisher out there is waiting to see if they are correct. 

 

Originally posted by hulik23

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by hulik23

everyone from those 6m ppl who bought it loved it including me

 

Please make that 5.999.999 and maybe follow a crash course "Speaking For Myself And Not For Others".

[Mod Edit]

The guy just said not everyone who bought guild wars 1 likes it. 

You claimed everyone who did buy it loved. Which one is more likely do you think.?

Guild Wars 2 is a lot like GUild wars 1 in itemization and structured PVP. 

These are the two things about guildwars 1 that i hoped they would have changed. Give guidlwars 1 a drop system like diablo 2 and I would still be there playing it right now. I actually restarted guildwars 1 when sorrows furnace dropped I thought they were making room in the game for more interesting and powerful items but i stopped again when i realised it was just a bait and switch.

But thats just me....and my opinion matters because I choose how I spend money based on what i think I will find fun. 

Progression in guildwars 2 will be based on 

1. Hard mode dungeons 

2. really hard dynamic events. 

3. World vs world PVP

Assuming that they have not come up with any new idea which i am sure they would have. 

Then equipment stats would not continually inflate with the difficulty of the content.

However the skins of the equipment from HARD mode would be way more elaborate and cool looking

than the skins from easy mode. 

You progression is therefore based on your individual skill which in this game is based on the Twitch factor of knowing when to dodge the positioning of the player which is very important  as well as movement and skill rotation. Now imagine coordinating all of this in a group of people and you quickly see that everyone has to be extremely good at what they do and when they do it. 

YOUR reward. 

Cool looking EPIC looking equiopment with stats that are not likley to be better that the easy mode.

Paradigm shift. 

Not sure if everyone is ready for the day when your leet dungeon gear doesnt do one point of damage extra to someone you are trying to gank in PVP. But thats whats cooking. 

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by tryklon

Well leveling in WoW nowadays is fast and easy. I see leveling more like a training than the real game.

I agree. The same applies to all mmos which have a levelling process and a story attached. Its just a process that everyone needs to plough through so that they can eventually be free of the level grinding treadmill and be on a level playing field so that EVERYONE can play the game together (ie a multiplayer game) without being seperated by a number.

The real game is the gear farming at 80 and with this new system the game became little different then, lets say, Counter Strike. You login, choose the room (instance) and start instantly. But instead of buying weapons you buy gear with the badges. Pretty simple.

Well obviously its not really anything like Counter Strike at all is it. CS is a proper multiplayer game where the players form into teams and try and defeat each other. The instances in WoW are mini adventures where groups of players play against the computer. Its a totally different thing. I vaguely remember in some matches team members could spend points on weapons or simple upgrades like a helmet or armoured vest but it wasnt persistent and only applied to that match. It was also extremely limited. Again nothing like WoW which has persistent characters which can belong to various different classes and can mix and match a multitude of different gear to produce different results.

WoW nowadays shouldnt even be called an MMORPG, it is certainly an MMO, but what does wow have of a Role Playing Game?

Anyone plays roles? Are there great quantitys of character customization other than the basic dps, heal, tank builds? Do people see their characters as their avatars instead of a character wich they use to kill stuff  and get gear?

Yep that pretty much sums up most mmos to be honest. What do most mmos have to do with role playing games? Thats why I think this potential move by Blizzard (if it does indeed go that way) to split the game up into lots of easily accessible multiplayer instances will be a good thing. Hopefully if it becomes popular then other mmos will follow suite and focus more on being proper online multiplayer games instead of trying to be story telling roleplaying games.......which dont really lend themselves to multiplayer games very well anyway. It just leads to people playing online games solo and ignoring each other which totally defeats the point of it being online.

  Absolutely well said. Then we can see if here really is any market left for the classic mmorpg fantasy game with wizards elves living in a persistent world. Tiered according to level like the everquest of old and the games that try to reinvent it like LINEAGE 2 and AION and the games that go directly to world building and total immersion like DARKFALL and MO. 

 

Developers need to know where the market is so they dont have unrealistic expectations of capturing bored WOW players with the games listed above, isn't gonna happen cant happen. Those players are looking for a genre of game that has not yet been adequately described....there is one game so far in it and its called WOW.

Originally posted by Zionnax

Originally posted by hypersan

 Everyone is excited about the new LFG functionality of cross realm heroics and what not. 

 

However there are certain long term consequences which have to be examined.

I am sure as a company that blizzard has already taken this into account. Applying purely logical argument blizzard is interested in the one thing that all companies are interested in, making a profit.

They have done this well with immense popularity of WOW. The changes made by blizzard recently must therefore be assumed to have been done on the basis of generating more revenue or maintaining revenue. WHat this tells us about blizzard and there average player is very revealing. 

 

The model chosen by blizzard moving forward targets a player with very little time to play allows attainment of gear at a constant rate broken up over short periods of play time. Hence the badge system. The last obstacle for casual players, not actually getting a group has now been removed. Grouping is an instant effect. No huge guild necessary.

This change is welcome from the point of view of those with little time to play who want to get RIGHT INTO THE ACTION. 

The long term consequences of this change and what is to come next may change the world of warcraft forever.

It would take very little at this point for blizzard to design a simple interface where you log in to see your character protrait and a chat room with a list of instances on the right hand side of the screen. You click the instance you want and press queue, within a few seconds you change screen to see your group member and you ask everyone to ready up and you press go to hear a count down 3, 2, 1. 

And boom you are in the nexus or TOC. 

 

You complete get your badges and then click buy from store and get your loot. The evolution of wow if driven by former battlenet players will eventually result in the above scenario or something that is very much like it at the core. 

I think WOW is changing genre and if it continues it may no longer be considered a classic MMO. 

Leveling right now feels like a quaint mini game that has been tacked on to the real game of loot acquisition at 80. 

This is likely to be the next thing to go. I foresee single player instaces with wonderful world altering technology to come. ALA age of CONAN 1-20. Or the possibility of abolishing levels all together ala GUILD WARS.

 

These changes are good for the targetted audience of WOW and will serve to differentiate it sufficiently, so that true MMORPGs do not have to compete with it to be successful. On a whole these changes in revealing what WOW really is will only make it better for other games as it will be the same as playing starcraft 2 or diablo alongside your other game.

 

WOW has now become a side dish. That you can eat along with your main course.

 

Welcome to Wild-Ass Guess Central.  We invite you to share your opinion of the future of this game, regardless of intelligence, merrit, or actual facts.

My guess:  WoW will replace all governments by 2012, and will rule the world.  This statement is equally likely and equally as usefull as the OP's.

All i am asking is for you to look at the current changes and attempt to predict where blizzard is going. If you think its far fetched fine no problem. We will see. 

This is not a flame its just what it is speculation.