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All Posts by argel

All Posts by argel

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34 posts found

Ha, tom_servo has pretty much cut right to the core of Enigma and that JG26 thing. When I was more active in the forums over there last summer he really came across badly. I don't think he's a bad guy, he just doesn't ever, EVER accept the limitations of his own human agency. hell, if he could translate that into real world success, maybe it'd be a good thing? But in an online game, it's terrible for 99% of the people reading, ie: everyone not in JG26.

Agree massively too, that this is an issue that may ideally be fixed by a game mechanic change, but it is also something every game puts up with to some extent. How do you decide what the hard limits are? What do you do if a bug appears that gives a BSOD or closes the client on death and renders the kill void? Of course, they'd fix that pretty quick, but my point is that when you're dealing with this type of thing it's very ambiguous and by putting a rule in place, CRS would be making a rod for their own backs by forcing them to ban players who they need for revenue.

 

The harsh reality is a) no empirical proof and b) some discussion to be had about whether someone who makes this type of stuff his own pet project would be the type of person (and people) who would use any 'calling out board' or TOS violation rule within acceptable guidelines, or whether he'd constantly use it to attack other players until they felt unable to play or were banned.

 

Fwiw, even as someone who flew quite regularly at one point and enjoyed the stat aspect of the game, I would rather there were 10 plug-pullers in the air than half of that playing the right way. As such, CRS has a horrible job to do balancing the books without clamping down on an activity that is not as clear cut as the hardcore make out.

You know why they have never done it OtotheJ? Because you make it easy for people to dislike you and easy for CRS to paint you as a trouble maker, when in fact I actually agree with some of what you want (see my posts elsewhere) but good god, learn to put a point across without sounding like a bitter shell of a man.

Your pompous attitude riles everyone except a few sycophants and gives CRS just one more reason to avoid the TOE questions. Instead they can reasonably say 'this guy just thinks he knows best', when in fact there is a discussion to be had and I believe they need to take away the game mechanics that are slowly killing the game, but I digress.

As per usual, people refuse to consider how they would react to criticism that is framed the way most stuff hurled at CRS is. People like Enigma are good players and have their heart in the right place, but they definitely consider themselves 'above the law' in these instances, or see it as a higehr purpose in some way. You have to understand that in a game such as this, your definition simply isn''t the same as everyone elses and vice versa.

I certainly agree with some of the things people are trying to say, but you guys need to be more considered in how you say it.

 

P.S. I understand from experience what it's like to do that and have Doc wade in and give some cryptic 'you only think you know what you know because you can't know' answer that just winds everyone up, but if you resort to name calling etc, you give them an easy out.

While I do try to defend them, it's clear that the whole catch 22 situation exists because CRS is reluctant to unequivocally say they would go back to the old game mechanics. Why would those old guys come back to a game they don't really know anymore?

I used to be quite angry about people criticising them, but I have to admit that it's at the point where they need tough love, because if they don't change direction very very soon, people will start getting antsy even in the current population and my fear is that conatant campaigns for altruistic players to give more money, then no incremental results when that target isn't made - ie: not achieving a smaller goal when 50% of target is made - could lead to players taking the attitude that they're basically being led on a wild goose chase to fund an ever less likely goal.

 

With every day they stick to their guns, they convince people who are on the fence such as myself, but who want the game to survive, that they aren't really sure what they're doing and ahve no way of solving this crisis that has been ongoing for nearly a year now.

I think Doc's biggest concern, btw is ending up at the mercy of perceived 'experts' who insist that certain armour/gun things are wrong, then that gaining traction when people die.

 

The biggest problem I've found with WWIIOL is that whenever people die, they blame it on a game aspect. It really is rare for people to go 'yeah he got me' and not blame equipment or whatever. If they do bring in player panels etc, that needs to change because otherwise CRS will quite rightly be forced to tell one side or the other that they're wrong.

 

Therefore I'd propose that any community input into game direction focus on the mechanics, rather than equipment. Anything else is just so divisive it's actually painful for the game.

 

Oh and they'll need to commit to reducing Spawn Delay to 30secs too. In the end, put things back in the hands of players and let them live or die by it. The trick will be making the mechanics more fun so that losing sides aren't funnelled into fights they can't win...

Thanks dude.

I just want people to understand that even though CRS are ultimately responsible for whether the game lives or dies, they're accountable in a way none of us are in that eventually, they won't be able to run their business and will end up out of a job. Whether you feel sympathy or not, that should inform everyone's perspective on why decisions were made to try and grow the business/attract new players by addressing common issues that new players found. With our 20/20 hindsight we can say that it would have been better to cement the existing fanbase and make sure they were provided for, but CRS saw that hundreds of thousands had shown interest in the game and yet only 10% stayed, so I understand why they felt they could attract more by addressing concerns expressed via exit polls.

 

Ultimately, I want the game to survive and improve, just like almost everyone else here, even the haters. That's why I'm prepared to concede that if the game stays on this path, it will be gone within a year or two at the most. The choice is really this simple now:

 

1) Continue down the current path, relying on benevolence of the players and supporting the company enough to keep the servers up, until eventually people stop playing the game through either natural causes or because stats/server/technical issues that can't be fixed, break irreparably.

 

2)  Accept that nobody wins if the game dies and that at best the current strategy is only slowing down the game's decline. Agree to change the game mechanics back to the pre 2008 days at the earliest opportunity after 1.35 is completed. Set up a poll system to establish player desires for a roadmap while also retaining the final say over what is or isn't possible. Also set up a player representative panel (as there used to be way back in the day) who can communicate and act as a focal point for player frustrations etc.

 

The most important thing that players can do now is be magnanimous. Hell, if I was Doc and I read all the personal crap on here I'd probably go 'you know what, f-you all' too, because some of the idiotic hatred is beyond the pale. You can say what you like about how Doc handles players, but how the playerbase has handled Doc doesn't exactly cover people in glory either. Start understanding that you're asking some guys to change everything, yet all you can do is call them names, tell them they're failures etc... They managed to keep a graphically-abysmal game solvent for 13 years. I think they deserve credit for the rise, as well as the fall.

 

In the end, I can say now that if they told me they'd change player mechanics in the next year, I'd re-sub as a show of support. If enough people did that - boom, there's your coder for 1.35. Once 1.35 goes live you'll have a natural rush of new players again, then you just emphasise that from now on, players will be part of the decision-making process and that the game will focus on it's strengths, rather than trying to be an everyman type of affair.

 

In the end, go down fighting, CRS, but do it with the support of your core fans, not without it.

The bitterness of some people is unreal.

 

Even though I stated in here: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/34/view/forums/post/5599329#5599329 that I would support all of the things you guys want, I am not saying it because I think 'OMG CRS GOT IT WRONG THEY ARE CRAP AT DEVELOPING' as some people do at every opportunity. It just entrenches the position on both sides that the decision taken was the only reason the game has fallen so far, and makes CRS reluctant to go back.

What needs to happen is all of these embittered guys need to first of all realise that CRS has held it's path precisely because people like OtotheJ etc have this view that it is a black & white right & wrong style of decision that needs to be made. Clearly that is not the case and while some of the decisions haven't played out well, it's important to remember that to be fair to CRS they created a still-playable game that has a lot of very positive aspects.

What CRS need to focus on is getting that old hardcore squad mentality back. That may be difficult but it isn't impossible and the more people play, the more likely others are to come back. The first step is saying 'we made that decision in good faith, believing it was right, but it hasn't turned out how we wanted and so for that reason we need to get back to basics and give the balance of power back to squads by eliminating AO's and mitigating the effects of TOE's at the earliest available opportunity' - even if that doesn't come about for 6 months to a year, I think people would come back.

If they do that though, CRS shouldn't be vilified for the 'wrong' choice. Remember they didn't want to make the game worse or fail, they wanted to make it better and help it grow. You idiots sitting there with the 'I told you so' mentality just solidified CRS's position that to go back would be an admission that players are ALWAYS right and would open them up to criticism for every decision.

That's what the root of this is. Control. CRS have too much and didn't listen to key people, but that doesn't mean that either those people are always right or that CRS are always wrong. There's a middle ground based on community relations that was never fully explored, but when you read the pompous, self-aggrandizing posts of some people like Hodo, OtotheJ etc you can understand why they'd want to avoid giving them too much influence.

In fairness Eve have daily server resets at 11am GMT and nobody gives a crap. Even though it's not the core reason why people are upset about this one - which clearly seems to stink even if it actually was a coincidence - it's not worth even considring a day when resets aren't necessary. They just are.

All I can say is that even though I have defended CRS consistently, even my position has changed to the point where I agree that a game with no players will fail, even if the mechanics are 'better' than they were. I actually thought certain changes needed to be made back in the day, but the simple fact is that nothing matters except the bottom line which is disappearing quickly.

No point in arguing because 99% of us do agree that whatever happens, CRS need to do something, anything to get the game back to being developed again. It's such a basic requirement that if CRS have to eat their words and promise to 'roll back' some of the structural gameplay issues (AO's etc) then that's what they have to do. I understand - and I think everyone else needs to - that because of the way CRS developed the code, it's not possible to roll back to v.1.25 or whatever people would like. That just isn't happening and realistically, it's no good asking them to because I can guarantee that no game of this type could simply be 'rolled back'.

 

BUT 

Someone needs to recognise that there are clearly a bunch of dudes who enjoyed WWIIOL for what it was and may - just may -  be persuaded back if they were given a proper incentive to do so. That can only come with a roadmap that allows for more libertarian gameplay (a la Eve) that was one of the big pre-launch selling points. It's clear that many people want it - not just a vocal few - and it's also clear that the current advocates (myself included) are too few to keep the game up and running financially. I actually agree I find it odd that they can't get a coder in but when you work it out, $4000 a month + whatever else they have coming in from 'regular' subs must be less than $8000 a month. Might sound like a lot but I suspect the overheads are big on a game like this and in all fairness, Doc/Gophur - whatever your personal feelings - need to be paid a living wage.

In the end the only thing preventing them being able to get a coder is that they won't commit to going back to that spirit of 01-05 where it seemed like a genuine sandbox. Even if they just said 'we'll roll back AO's in 1.36 and give all the power back to squads, but if it fails it fails'  they'd actually get the coder they needed and could finish 1.35 before moving on to it. People would come back for that incentive, but it needs to be a clear roadmap with an absolute 100% categorical statement from Gophur, because he is who the players trust.

 

Hell, they'd probably get 50 subs just if Doc apologised to some of the butthurt guys on here :D 

Probably agree now - more than I used to even a few months ago - that the only way to get subs back is to open up the sandbox element again and get rid of AO's.

 

In the end while it wasn't perfect, it clearly held more allure for a lot of players and that is the bottom line here. They should at least announce that they'll go back to those libertarian principles (spit) and allow the playerbase to dictate the game even if it is to the detriment of 'new' subs, because right now there simply isn't any way they'll recover their numbers via the current game. None.

I would implore CRS to save the game by this method. Announce that you'll go back to it at the earliest opportunity once money allows, and I think a lot of old subs will come back if they think it'll help. At the moment you're asking people to come back to a game on the premise that it'll be fixed in a non-specific way that doesn't appeal to old players or new ones.

 

I'm not a hater and you can look back through my post history here and you'll see that I've consistently defended CRS against what I see as some pretty revisionist history from some players who are full of their own self-importance, but in the end you can only argue so long without acknowledging that there are clearly a bunch of players out there who want to play this game in their own way, and the current game doesn't allow them to do that.

 

Time to wake up and acknowledge that sometimes the customer really is right.

 

That is all total rubbish, Pete has been pretty rational and in many other threads stated his agreement with people about some negative things that he's sick of. Plus he hasn't gotten personal in the quoted post, so I don't understand where you are coming from at all.

Even though I don't think it's the right way for the long term of the game, I agree that putting it back in the short term may just entice enough old-timers back to get 1.35 done and then CRS could take a fresh look at what was possible with a stable subscriber base.
Are you sure? It's just I've heard from a lot of guys who hate the developers and haven't played it that it isn't very good?
I definitely don't think Doc coming in here and giving his usual cryptic 'you weren't there man' vibe helps anything.

On the other hand, its pretty cringe watching players overstate their own and their friends' influence on the game. It was a colossal screw up, hi, I'm CRS, nice to meet you.

Nobody is saying the game is perfect now, just that it had more problems than any of the vets give credit for when they rant at CRS for ruining their campfests. They totally refuse to acknowledge that the game would arguably have been in just as much trouble eventually without dev. intervention.

Agree with that, made a few posts on official forums in the past about how deluded some people are to think it was a privilege to be camped and lose to an enemy that avoided any towns with a proper defence set up. As mentioned, sure its cool for the guys attacking but it wears down defenders and eventually people logged out as they couldn't find a fight worthy of the name.

As pitt says, you'd struggle to do that now and it was actually a lot of fun when people tried it last summer because defenders had a chance to set up.

Lot of guys think they were responsible for the game's success, shame they can't see how their own 'glory' came at the detriment of a lot of other peoples' expense.
Stug: 19th century America. Focus on slavery and foreign relations.

Yeah I'm unsubbed because I'm a historian who is studying for a PHD, don't have time really to commit to a game that is at it's best when you're playing without time constraints.

 

The last post is encouraging, don't become a parody, show us more of who you are and what you loved about the game and maybe people will understand you a little better.

Seriously axishatr, get help :D It's worrying to see someone saying 'they made me an enemy of the game... they made me what I am today...' in such a weird way. This is why nobody takes you seriously and your comments are seen for what they are: biased lunacy.

 

Fwiw I'm not even subbed and I still defend the game. I don't feel that they owe me anything and I don't owe them, it's just a game I enjoy and when you see that, you don't like people characterising it as unenjoyable or gloating over it's downward trajectory.

 

Grow up son.

Good video that. Sums it up at the start too 'most of the people complaining appear to be 10-11yr vets, but I've not seen anything too bad'

I can understand why people are annoyed that the game didn't evolve as they wanted, but the video shows it is still more than playable, it's enjoyable.

Originally posted by swindlers
Originally posted by wrath04
Ok ...So now it's an Opinion and not "facts" good enough for me, that's all you had to say man...was that so bad? And I do have an imact on your life, just as you do mine, you are here with me arent you? And I do accept your Opinion and respect it as yours...It's when "Opinion" get's promoted as fact , where I have the problem. Nothing personal . 

Grow up. You speak as if this thread is about you.

I assure you,its not about you. Carry on. Move on. Whatever it is you need to do.

 

This is the single most abject and pathetic thing on this forum. A person so obviously beaten he resorts to simply making obtuse insults to avoid answering the questions that would expose him as the petty troll that he is.

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