This particular piss-poor excuse has been around for awhile; it's not just AoC.

Personally, I've been inclined to think the exact opposite. When I become a true fan of a game, I'm playing all day, and forum-hopping whenever I can't (such as at work ^_^) get in the game.

I definitely frown, yet again, at Funcom on this matter.

I've written and worked for a few sites in my time, and whenever I did anything that was considered even "dancing on the line", I had a superior come down on me.

Maybe he's trying to intentionally fuel the flames, and maybe he's not. The fact is, as a company, your readers shouldn't even have to sit there and ponder this.

In all the years I've been involved with the industry (less than 3, mind you), I was taught that you're supposed to make intelligent, logical, useful contributions on the forums. I think it's rather deplorable that Funcom doesn't feel the need to hold it's moderators, be they paid or volunteer, to a higher code of conduct.

I'm personally so burned out on the solo-friendly play-style, that I would welcome a group-oriented game.

FFXI had the right idea. You grouped so often, that by the time you hit 75, you probably knew most of the people on the server.

If there's ever a sequel to FFXI, I will definitely play it :-)

Are we talking current, or ever?

Ever, I would say:

1) Asheron's Call 2

2) Vanguard

3) Age of Conan

4) RF Online

5) Auto Assault

In terms of now:

1) Age of Conan

2) Hellgate: London

3) Pirates of the Burning Sea

4) Star Wars Galaxies

5) Archlord

While I don't believe the people are the problem, I can empathize with Elikal a bit.

I write for this site, and have contributed to many different forums and websites since I was only 13. GameFAQS was actually where I started posting, with Game Reviews and such.

One of the things I came to realize at an early age is that people are going to disagree with you. Some people will approach you with thought-out, well-organized arguments, and challenge you every step of the way. Some folks will just call you a raging idiot, and give you no premise or reason for the 1-line insult of character. Heck, sometimes people will team up on you, and belittle and demean your credibility.

But you get used to it. Your skin thickens, and you realize, quite simply "**** it.". You can't please everyone, you can't always win. What you have to look for is that portion of the community that listens to, and respects your words. In the mind of the haters, they'll probably forget about you in a few minutes, or a few days. But when you garner the respect of people, they'll remember both you and the message you carry for a long time to come.

If you've seen me post on the boards, then I'm sure you've seen me attacked at least a few times. It comes with the territory. But, for the most part, I think a lot of the users here have come to know and respect me, at least as a poster here at MMORPG.com. Those are the people I write and post for. Because at the end of the day, I hope I helped at least a few people out, or spoke for a few folks that chose not to. That's all you can really do on a forum; speak, and see what happens.

I don't know if this post meant anything to you, but I hope you got the gist of what I was saying. If you choose to leave the community, as for all people who may also consider leaving, then I hope you'll find what you're looking for elsewhere.

Oh, I'll play along here... some of my answers will prolly be atypical.

1) Planetside. Max crash.

The first time I played this game, I remember I was teeming with excitement. I got recruited to an amazing outfit early on (Blood of the Spider, on the Johari server). I remember the Galaxy drops being so intense that I actually got an adrenaline rush. But for me, the most exciting moment I ever had was my first MAX crash. I played on the Terran Republic team, and I'll never forget when 25 of us suited up in Dual Cyclers and Pounders, and proceeded to just conquer Amerish. Planetside, to date, was the most fun and excitement I ever had in an MMORPG at release. I really, truly hope SOE makes a Planetside 2 some day, because with the technology available nowadays, it could really shine!

2) Star Wars Galaxies. Imperial Raid on Corneria

My time with Star Wars Galaxies was a mixed bag. I loved many aspects of it, but there were also a huge number of problems. For example, I was one of the first Commandos on the server of Shadowfire... and we didn't have weapons, save for the limited use ones from the Darth Vader quest. However... I remember when we got our guns, and we could destroy anyone and anything.

I remember I joined up with a guild, led by Jacyn, and we all went to go raise hell at (if my memory serves me correct) Corneria, the rebel city. We killed people there for an hour, and it was some of the most intense fighting. When we finally all died, I remembered seeing a force of Rebels standing over my body, and thinking to myself "Wow... we just caused that much of an uproar. Awesome"

3) Final Fantasy 11. Twinkling Treant Event

I'll never forget Final Fantasy 11, as I played it longer than any other MMO to date. But my favorite moment was the server-wide Twinkling Treant. Watching hordes of players of all levels running up to these creatures, getting in a few swings, and then dying and running back in for some more. Just talking about it makes me miss my linkshell, my old friends, and the game itself. It was also the first game where I felt social interaction was a core part of the game, and I loved that.

4) City of Heroes. Building my character.

Never had I played a game with so many customization options. I loved that I could run around, and never see my twin in the game (save for weaponry, of course). I liked reading player's Biographies, and really seeing the creative minds of the world at work. Plus, I thought the idea of them creating a comic book based on characters from within the game was one of the coolest, fan-appreciation gestures I've ever seen from a company.

5) Everquest 2. Leading the pack.

Everquest 2 was one of the first games where I legitimately was allowed to sit on my ass 10+ hours a day to play. I was sick as a dog with the flu, so I couldn't sleep, or do much else. I remember being absolutely haggard in real life. So I decided to give this game a try whilst being miserable.

I played so much, that I was the first Berserker on my server by Day number 2 (Blackburrow server), and for the first time in ages, the highest level player on my server for a few days. I don't know why that mattered to me so much, but I suppose it was just memorable because of how sick I was, and how cool it felt to know that I was at the top of the food chain for once.

Originally posted by Malickiebloo

Originally posted by Cymdai

I disagree entirely with this post.

Age of Conan is just another game in a slew of recent failures that ignored their competition.

I think the problem with all these MMO developers is that:

1) They have absolutely no idea what gamers want/expect nowadays, and approach this from a business perspective, instead of from a gamer's perspective.

2) All project managers have 0% competence, and are skilled in budget mismanagement, lying to all their customers, and generally lacking in the creativity department.

3) None of the backers, nor the project managers, have ever researched the history of MMO's, pre-WoW, and it shows.

 

In my mind, the MMO genre is in shambles. When is the last time some new ideas came forward? Why are we always using the same classes, the same races, the same everything that were being used nearly a decade ago? Why isn't the genre evolving?

I think when you couple the problems listed above, accompanied with the fact the MMO players are  *finally*  getting tired of playing the same game with a few different features, designs, etc etc, and looking for more, that you've got a stonewall.

I believe the next, truly great MMO will require the following:

1) Abandon the Tolkien Lore/Fantasy theme. No more orcs, battle axes, and for God's sake, I never want to see an elf again, in any form, period.

2) A company that actively interacts with it's players. Dev-led monster raids vs. player cities and such would be something remarkable to me. Devs who actually post on their forums. GM's who give a damn about customer care. You know, not a corporation.

3) An emphasis on a setting not often explored. For example, I'd pay stupid amounts of money to play a Fallout MMO that worked well.

4) New ideas in the industry. It's obvious that those who ARE in this industry are just plain drained of new creative endeavors. McQuaid's Vanguard, Gaute's Conan, and let's not even get into Archlord. It's time to start a search for new creative genius.

Just my 2 cents... I should write an editorial column. "How to Build a 5 Star MMO"

There's one problem I see in your theory , Most games that are trying something different don't get funded, If they do they don't become hits.  Look at Fallen Earth (similar to the lore in Fallout) , They have a lot of good tech footage, art, ideas , but have yet to get invested in by a corporation . EVE has most of what you described , It actually offers a lot more(including CCP being very active within their community) . Yet has only a small portion of the MMO market under it's wing. 

Maybe the problem isn't with developers at all , It's those putting up the big money. And those who buy their fantasy rehashes up like milk and bread. Look at WOW, Blizzard controls 10 million subs , Yet never innovates , never takes a risk , They Just rehash what's been done over and over for years now.Yet if you look at any MMO community site like this one , You have so many people that defend this , just because their game happens to have a bit more spit and polish.

Therefor no one takes a risk , look what happens if they do . When trying something new you have few guidelines to follow in how to make this or that work . Therefor games that innovate are far more buggy , have general stability issues and more hedaches all around. In turn noone supports the game , Game dies . Company closes bye bye innovation. Sad truth of the state of MMO's

That's a valid point.

It's been argued in the past that one of the reason ambitious projects fail is because of investor interference. For example, the company has a vision of the game they would like to produce, how it will work, etc etc. But Jo Money, a major backer for the game, thinks he's got some pretty brilliant ideas of his own. Therefore, he says he'll put his money into the game, provided they compromise with him on a few areas. it's a theory that could carry some weight; he who writes the checks makes the games!

I also happen to agree with you on another point; new ideas are generally poorly executed. I think this IS a problem nowadays in relation to WoW. Before WoW, the community was smaller, willing to deal with more bugs, delays, etc. Now that over 10 million people have seen what 99% functionality is, what an excellent framerate is like, how class balance looks when it's done right... they're much less interested in waiting for a game to stabilize. But I think that's also just a consumer preference. Honestly, I think most people would prefer something that is done, functional, and "complete" over something that's a work in progress. For example, to poke fun at Gaute's comparison...

Would you prefer to walk into a restaurant where there is a steak fresh off the oven, on your plate, perfectly prepared for your consumption? Or, would you rather wait several hours, while the cow is killed, cured, treated, cut, cleaned, and prepared, on what could be an excellent filet (if done properly)? Probably not ^_~

That's Blizzard's gift. They take ideas, and they perfect them. I can't fault them for it; it's a hell of a talent. They enter the day with a "It IS broke, but we CAN and WILL fix it!". I admire that.

However, with what you pointed out, there's now a trail of failed "copycat" games on the trail. Perhaps the customers *are* finally tiring of the same old, same old.  Why pay for a new game that hasn't brought something to the table that a finely-tuned game like World of Warcraft has? I think the first developer to break the mold EFFICIENTLY (ala QA testing out the ass) will rake in the money. WoW's kind of got a monopoly on what's been done; their subs prove that. I think the next big competitor is going to have enter the game with a different approach.

I disagree entirely with this post.

Age of Conan is just another game in a slew of recent failures that ignored their competition.

I think the problem with all these MMO developers is that:

1) They have absolutely no idea what gamers want/expect nowadays, and approach this from a business perspective, instead of from a gamer's perspective.

2) All project managers have 0% competence, and are skilled in budget mismanagement, lying to all their customers, and generally lacking in the creativity department.

3) None of the backers, nor the project managers, have ever researched the history of MMO's, pre-WoW, and it shows.

In my mind, the MMO genre is in shambles. When is the last time some new ideas came forward? Why are we always using the same classes, the same races, the same everything that were being used nearly a decade ago? Why isn't the genre evolving?

I think when you couple the problems listed above, accompanied with the fact the MMO players are  *finally*  getting tired of playing the same game with a few different features, designs, etc etc, and looking for more, that you've got a stonewall.

I believe the next, truly great MMO will require the following:

1) Abandon the Tolkien Lore/Fantasy theme. No more orcs, battle axes, and for God's sake, I never want to see an elf again, in any form, period.

2) A company that actively interacts with it's players. Dev-led monster raids vs. player cities and such would be something remarkable to me. Devs who actually post on their forums. GM's who give a damn about customer care. You know, not a corporation.

3) An emphasis on a setting not often explored. For example, I'd pay stupid amounts of money to play a Fallout MMO that worked well.

4) New ideas in the industry. It's obvious that those who ARE in this industry are just plain drained of new creative endeavors. McQuaid's Vanguard, Gaute's Conan, and let's not even get into Archlord. It's time to start a search for new creative genius.

Just my 2 cents... I should write an editorial column. "How to Build a 5 Star MMO"

I think this game will get a healthy population boost with the release of the origins server.

I know 2 guilds are coming from Age of Conan to this game for that purpose.

It's funny, with every failed MMO, new life is breathed back into the ones that have proven they're worth a damn.

Wow...

I wish I still had my FRAPS video of the Shadow Consortium Guild using the leveling exploit. I remember capturing them using the Gong exploit for around 15 minutes, and figured "Once they see this Zoticx guy cheating with his friends, they'll be banned"

It was not so...

Funcom didn't even give him a temporary suspension.

Even with all the screen shots provided, I would bet nothing happens to a single member of that guild. Funcom doesn't seem to care about REAL bans, like cheating, exploiting, or botting. They're more interested in temporarily suspending you for Rez-pad camping, or mass-ganking. And sadly, that isn't sarcasm. :(

I know my guild is also waiting for the DAoC Origins server to open up. The majority of the guild will be playing together there, in hopes of remembering what real PvP was about.

I heard a rumor today as well that the Sinister Guild will also be retiring AoC (unconfirmed). That means, of the original elite guilds on Deathwhisper, only Clan PfB,  Lords of the Dead, PRX-CQ, and  the Regulators are left.

To jump back a few posts, I don't think McQuaid deserves any sympathy for his failure. If you haven't read the interview on F-13, it's truly sad. He didn't even have the fortitude to fire his employees when the company went under, rather, their keycards got shut off, and they were told by mid-level management that they'd get resume assistance. McQuaid is no saint, neither is Gaute. I think it's very important to blame the right people for the failure of a game, and the ones who are calling the shots (like McQuaid and Gaute) deserve the blame. They set the pace of the game, direct it's development cycle, manage the resources, etc. I have zero sympathy for people who have millions of dollars and several years, and can't provide a moderately functional product. I think in the case of AoC, the problem lies with terrible mismanagement, and potentially inferior coders; a downright horrible combination.

And to jump waaaay back in the topic, regarding the content. I agree; it's impossible to cater to the hardcore audience. However, the key to keeping the hardcores around isn't necessarily 20,000 hours of content, it's in creating multiple entertaining fronts to keep them occupied. Things such as an arena, raid-zones, crafting, or just more useless, amusing antics (fishing, gambling, etc) can keep a player's interest for a long time.

I personally applaud the notion. Power to the players for sure!

Funcom may not read the forums, or listen to their players, or even assist their customers. What better way to send a message than a mass walk-out/cancellation?

At the same time... I can't help but feel pity for Conan.  I really loved the setting, the lore, and the ideas that went into the game. I just think it's sad that mis-management strikes again, and destroys what could have been a great franchise.

First came the announcement that the "Combine" guild is leaving, and I just received word that "Darkhand" is abandoning the game as well.

I think that's a really, really bad sign for Age of Conan. When your hardcore guilds are peacing out, you're losing some of your most loyal clients.

Also, it's not like when a few friends quit the game; when a guild calls it off, you're losing anywhere from 30-100 customers at once.

Has anyone else on the server heard word of any of the other guilds walking away from the game?

Well, if Avery is correct, and it's based off targeting, then the system is already broken.

All you'd need to do is have a high level friend, preferably a tank class, run into a group of lowbies, and then cast an AoE on just him while he "splash-kills" all the lowbies.

I sure as hell hope Funcom was smart enough to consider that...

Wow, how lame.

So if you gank, and hit the max number of points, you'd have to wait 1750 hours to be able to enter town, trade, or anything else? So, you'd need to wait 72 days of not dying to walk away scot-free.

The PvP system sounds like they just took Battlegrounds Exp from WoW, and instead of confining it to mini-games and a zone, they made it global.

I personally don't care much for this system at all. I've always believed ganking is a part of PvP, but I guess Funcom doesn't agree. Oh well.

Paragus, your screenshot is one of the reasons I have *always* been supported the concept of no communication between gankers and gankees.

People who play MMO's seem to have forgotten that it's just a game. I think it's rather pathetic, honestly, but it's just another case to be used to argue that the age requirement has absolutely nothing to do with actual maturity.

Hell, I remember in my old guild on Deathwhisper, we had a relatively nice guy in it... save for when he was killed. Some of you Deathwhisper folks might have seen the name "BobRoss" running around... yeah.

I would strongly recommend NOT coming to Age of Conan right now, especially if you're fresh from WoW.

I say this for the following reasons:

1) You're used to customer support, a feature totally MIA in Age of Conan, and one that won't likely be remedied soon.

2) You're probably used to a very functional game. Age of Conan was somewhat functional... and somehow, it's become less stable in the past 2 months. Crashing, bugs, and latency issues are notorious.

3) This game does absolutely nothing better than WoW, not even crafting.

Honestly, I'm not a WoW fan. However, in terms of quality, quantity of things to do, polish, interaction, and essentially every feature you could ever care about, WoW has beat out Age of Conan.

If you ARE looking for something totally different from WoW, I would recommend giving FFXI a shot. It's sort of a polar opposite of WoW (group-focused leveling, a dynamic crafting system, more time-consuming, an emphasis on in-game interaction).

It's been such a dry-spell for MMO's, I've considered re-purchasing the game, and returning to it.

I have some things to say on this particular issue.

I'm one of those hated "hardcore" gamers. Partially, it's because I like to absolutely murder the hell out of a game, and partially because I like to know what I'm talking about when I write reviews. That's why when I write them, they're very detailed, reflect many personal experiences, and are generally praised by the people who read them.

It took me around 12 days to hit 80 before, and that was what I accomplished having never played the game in beta, or knowing where to go or what to do. I have every bit of confidence that, if I wanted to, I could grind a new character to the cap in a few days, maybe 6 or 7.

Now, by no means am I suggesting that a developer should ever cater to the hardcore crowd; we're always going to finish your game faster than you expected, and we'll always be the first ones to point out every design flaw, in-game issue, and balance problem on the forums. However, hardcore or not, when there are full guilds, and I mean 5-7 guilds that are completely capped out to 80, with 50-100 members each, and in less than a month... well, that's just stupid.

I think the problems with Age of Conan are simple.

1) It's too linear. I saw a forum post describe it best actually. ! -> X -> ? -> ! -> X -> ? (x) 10, 000 = insanity. Not to mention the fact that you're herded through content all the way to 80. There's no incentive to explore, few special leveling areas, and zero "extra" content.

2) There's no point in being a high level. Most, if not all, of the end-game content is missing, broken, buggy, or pointless. Raids are severely impaired, and the loot tables absolutely suck there anyway. Sieges are wildly FUBAR'd. With recent patches, you can't even go back and pimp out your alt, because mini-bosses that are 40 levels lower than you are dominating your face for no good reason. So why level? All it really does is prevent you from getting ganked and drawing agro.

3) It's too easy. I shouldn't be able to grind out 30 levels in one day, period. That's poor design.

4) There's really not anything to do EXCEPT level. Crafting restricted until you're a high level, and once you are, see point #2. There's no fun side-quests, or mini-games. Seriously, you couldn't even include fishing? As stated earlier, there's no reason to explore. Farming mobs for loot is pointless, because loot absolutely sucks in this game. So you can log on and level, or if you're into it, RP, but other than that? There's nothing here.

5) They made it too casual. I would like to say I am *not* a trend of the casual play-style. I've always believed the more time you dedicate to a game, the better you should be. Funcom wanted everyone to experience everything. I've always thought a good time-line for a game would be 2-3 months for the hardcore players, 4-6 months for the dedicated players, and a full year for the casual players to experience an MMO in it's entirety. When your timeline is 1-3 weeks for a hardcore player, 2-4 weeks for a dedicated player, and 4-8 week for a casual player.... well, you just sold yourself too short.

Having said all that, I hear my guild talking about how no one logs in anymore. There's nothing to do. They can farm gold all day, which can sit in their inventory since there's nothing to buy. They log on to raid, hoping it will work. Some of them have 2-4 level 80 alts, and they just can't be bothered to even look at this game anymore.

However, I can't imagine paying another site or service to level for you, that's just pointless. Log in, do it yourself in a few weeks, and save your money. Or, if you want a real chuckle, take the 10-day challenge yourself. Start a character, get him to level 80 as fast as you can.

I'm aware this is a problem as well.

I don't even play right now, I canceled last month to make a move. However, my guild has been discussing (we're on Deathwhisper) about how the log-ins have gone from 50-60 during peak hours, to 10 -15 people.

It's really simple. Once you've done all the raids (most of us were epic, to some degree, back before June 25th) and gotten the few pieces of gear that DON'T suck, there's just nothing else to do. Sieging is still fubar'd, half the raid content is broken (notably Kylikki's, which for some reason, seems to bisect raid groups into 2 different instances, all th time), and there just isn't much to do.

I know for one that nearly everyone in the guild has 1 80, some have 2 or more.

But honestly, how many resources can you farm to sell? How many times can you log on for the sake of logging on? What's the purpose of raiding when 80% of the gear is identical to other pieces/worthless?

The thing is, a lot of people are doing everything in their power to like this game. I wish Funcom's game director would read the boards, to see how far out of their way people are going to not quit this game. Maybe if they did, they wouldn't completely ignore the problems in this game, and would stop half-assing patches. Because when the people who really want to like this game stop caring, you're going to have a real problem.

I can't even believe that.

It's as if the directors of the game have never even played an MMO before. There are a dozen games out there that have handled farming mobs better than this. Why not consult them?

Pitiful, really.