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All Posts by Kobao

All Posts by Kobao

2 Pages 1 2 »
25 posts found
Interesting choice of theme, Argent Tournament patch was the lowest, low point of WoW and when I stopped. Translates better to a card game though, I guess, beautiful art as usual.
They do because things need to feel like they are worth something and earned and sign of status. There needs to be so much cotent in games that are played for years, that there inevitably is content that feels/is like grind, because developement has it's limits. Many people enjoy (simple) work like that, especially if there is additional reward mechanics associated. See Candy Crush etc being most played games, with main difference being how differently one feels rewarded, pleased. Article says everybody knows what grind is, but I think there's room for subjectivity, and interpretation whether it refers to "actual grind" or what feels like grind to certain person. Grind has always been there, it's core part of MMORPG appeal and role in gaming. One solution: engourage and/or force people to socialize during leveling, questing, whatever feels grind. Dungeons are not grind? Main differences it being cooperative social event, and better chances to get powerful upgrades, and be challenged. This would mean in practise in your everyday themepark forced group quests, more challening and more varied monsters, better designed loot system (see candy crush). So I see if something would need to change I'd look it as revising of reward system, whatever is grind is already good base for the gameplay and attracts people to play MMORPGs.

Dunno how SC is, but the gameplay introduction video I saw of NMS didn't scream space sim to me, very lightweight game, except for the vastness of the space. No sim features, quick jumping from planet to planet, arcade controls. Collect pretty aliens and collect coins... Also didn't see there's much of the EVE style social/PvP/interesting economy/logistics/scamming stuff.

Let's look at the chart in 5 years, MOBA's likely drop, some other genre jumps to popularity among many genres that have existed in some way for long time... There's a lot of MMORPG's and people play them, just not new thing anymore and as people are scattered around in different games, they don't show so much on top statistics like that. MOBA offers much of the appeal of MMORPG, as does a (MMO)FPS or even CGG, so they may replace MMORPGs for some people for some amount of time.

What we need is someone with balls to invest money into legit attempt at making follower to UO, EQ, SWG, AO type of games, something that would tickle us bitter veterans just in the right spot and attract many new players as well. Pretty much has to be group of industry veterans with clear vision and plenty of cash and kickstarter or so. Those with ideas, don't have the money. Those with money have better things to do (in their minds at least).

Questions is how much person is willing to put their life into a game and what sort of soializing the seek from the game. There's the unfortunate thing that quick MOBA match, quick WoW log in queue up a dungeon log out thing works for many people. How many of us adults really end up playing hours on ends, adventuring a fantasy world and socializing with people? It requires some proper nerds whose (gaming) life revolves around the single MMORPG they play for years... I do think there's definitely room for great attempt at this sort of game, part of the target audience is here on People will come if the game is good. Something to look for model is games like Dark Souls...

EVE is our there and some other games, but we want something else, something better for us, that we know already existed once. MMORPG just have this nature of getting crappy due to monetization and "brilliant" ideas over the years.

It's all about money really... Who invests into a MMORPG with many dated seeming mechanics directed for "random" group of old gamers, doesn't sound very appealing to the business people. Then how this MMORPG nirvana will develop, start up and survive free from any attempts at making the game much more approachable to larger audience and wild monetization ideas over many years? Even though there's examples in history that it likely ends up fucked, the allure of short term profit becomes too great in most companies.

I think many of the companies don't have focused enough development to really craft well thought out MMORPG, really get into human psychology... Blizzard figured some things... but still, I think there's many who want to attain a social status in the game in different ways and that you can really stand out in your own way, that's one things where Blizzard sucks, also promoting socializing they suck at. Core MMORPG stuff they suck at, lol. I guess it comes down to, as I mentioned, how important is socializing for the gamer. And I dare to say that there's so many people who would be enjoy socializing if the game even bit tried to dorve people into that direction, it would be attraction of the game, but these companies don't apparently believe much in socializing. Which is understandable, considering how people can act in anonymous online game.

Undeleted the account to respond because there's insigthful comments and not just defending of ffxiv or the themepark MMORPG model.

Tell me how WoW and others have not started to incorporate many mechanics that allow people very conveniently not to socialize. If people are given the choice, people likely will not socialize much, apparently.

My ideal MMORPG would not have auction house (without clear penalty), too much fast travel or dungeon finder. All these feature suck and will suck forever for the type games mmorpgs are, in my personal opinion and taste.

Guess what I don't expect just somebody else to socialize, -I- made hundreds, possibly thousands 5 man groups in WoW. -I- tried to start up conversation most times until I also became sore of all the crap, made bunch of friends, randomly found leveling partners, world PvP, was guild leader at the end, tried RP and everything. But there was clear dying of social atmosphere at a point. A lot thanks to change in gamers, our attitudes, but tied and maybe ultimately started by with what kind of mechanics were developed into the game and with what sort of mentality the game was developed. FFXIV is the same ideas, just with bit japanese flavor, cuteness and stuff.

I want to socialize randomly with random people that I can meet again (randomly). Guilds and cross server dungeons don't go well with this. I don't Care how it should be possible to become friends on cross server dungeon but to me it was very clear that in practise I used to find a bunch of friends befor the feature, after it many DIDN'T EVEN BOTHER TO SAY HELLO, this is most bothering thing. People cooperating virtually next to each other but don't even say hello.

But it's completely true, I have seen too much of the puzzle, Ive solved the puzzle. Or whatever you want to see it as, there's a problem in me as well. Or yeah, rather I've outgrown the genre.

Games mentioned: darkfall, Eve, hearthstone, I've played all of these. Hearthstone I actually play on the phone every few days. Darkfall development I followed since when it was still going to be vaporware in most people's opinion. Eve is still brilliant idea in my mind, but to actually play it... This has been discussec enough as well, some people get along with and are dedicated enough to really get into it, it's very social game but requires too much to get there and remain there. And just feels too hostile to me, it's exactly this feeling of hostility that bothers me.

I don't know how playing card game or Tower defense on my phone in any way makes what I'm saying irrelevant or silly or whatever... I don't play them for MMORPG features because they aren't such. Logic fell past me on this one. My phone happens to be only hardware i have that plays current stuff well. I was sceptic on the whole smartphone thing... well some games work well with the touch screen and now there's enough processing power.

Yes, I just thought 4 years would be enough, not for me, I would probably get some MMORPG anxiety, burnout diagnosis if they gave those


I literally feel physically ill, I was okay with it back then when I didn't even care that I felt bad, or understand it

It's about 4 or something years since I stopped playing WoW. I'm trying FFXIV now after this long break during which I've only tried couple games for few days. I STILL feel nauseous from this sort of game... I just can't take another linear leveling zone where I press two buttons and wait for GCD. Nobody talks much, I'm not trying either, it's hard when everybody is quiet, I'm not exactly social either, in WoW I always used to start 5 mans and socialize and bond with the groups, can't aynmore because attitudes have changed because of change in community and game mechanics that promote unsocial behavior. Pretty spell effects and some silly fantasy stories, can't relate with this stuff. Grind of 50 levels to go into raids where people obsess about performance and gear... yeah, this is attitude problem on my part too, but tell me what else is actual focus of this games than that. Carefully crafted minigames are not gonig to cut it.


This was good reminder why I stopped... this is not really directed at FFXIV only. And I hate that all I have to say about these games is complain like most everybody else on this site, but I can't help it.


I used to play MMORPG's like crazy, and all kind of "hardcore" games... now I just rather play a card game or tower defense game on smartphone. My past self would not believe it.

Well saying pretty much same thing, word virtual reality and simulation got bit too much into there, could have typed differently blabla

That remains my understanding of main appeal of MMORPG's. Many want, not necessarily worryfree, but a place that fulfills the stuff daily living doesn't seem to provide. For social outcasts to find a place to belong to. Used to be for me when I actively played anyways, and I think is increasing reason to play MMORPG's, when there are now new games that offer the PvP or whatever single gameplay feature of a MMORPG in neat, approachable package.


So this leads to me wonder why on earth is the trend to kill socializing, adventure, fun details, challenges, stressfreeness. By stressfree I don't mean that a big monster can't kill your character, but rather the stuff like the social pressures and optimization culture in many games. Developers jump into the optimization mentality as well, or start it. I think these are exactly some of the reasons people are running away from real life to virtual life, and now running away from virtual life to... complain on forums.


Now that there are MOBAs and stuff, I think this portion of industry really needs to look in to what MMORPG customers really want into their lives, and focus more into creating virtual realities. Many lighter games offer more terraforming, character customization stuff already.


The big companies that have the money to create MMORPGs have misunderstood what kind of games there is interest for, I think. I think also stuff like Cities Skylines, Witcher, Dark Souls, Kickstarter projects etc, popularity of such niche, or complex games in recent years indicates people are not wanting super easy run through games, perhaps maybe many exactly want bit more complex, mentally stimulating, escape providing game. And what really needs to be tackled; MMORPG shouldn't be from 1 to max level grind, then the actual game. I have hard time getting into the games for this reason, even having played for years before, for me all the concepts are familiar. So I feel the whole combat level progression thing should be looked at, it's not working well in many games, I would say it's completely broken in game like WoW. It feels funny that a very core feature, combat level progression, in a game is broken, unecessary side quest you have to do first to get to the goodies.


MMORPG is also one of only genres, I feel, that so often the games don't actually really fulfill what even the genre name says. Take space simulator, they seem to be getting better with time, and there's pretty common idea what space simulator should be and where they should go in the future. Like 80% of MMORPG's I've tried have hard time being "massively multiplayer" or "roleplaying".

I've given up
PC Gaming « General Discussion
11/24/13 5:53:43 PM

Gonna point out the communities, too. Perhaps as returning player you find your place in them, but still, there's isn't just that sort interesting dynamics and excitement among the playerbase anymore. That's what makes MMORPG's worth playing in the first place.

I recommend good board games, local co-op games with a buddy or much lighter online games with RPG mechanics, for that social gaming experience.

I agree with the idea that the old content just doesn't matter jackshit to Blizzard (and any player who accepts it, which is probably comfortable 99.5% of their current players). If you play WoW, you just have to condition yourself not to care about that low level stuff, that is not how the game works anymore. It was all raped anyway with Cataclysm and other patches.


Bigger concern to me seems like the player housing, which means, to my understanding, that there's going to be a large amount of people sitting in an instance alone at a given time. You can even, to an extent, use other professions in the house. It's going to make WoW further unsocial. In the end of the day it's what people want, it's pretty sad how people want it.

The thing is I stopped playing a game after this feature was implemented and haven't played since. It really was a game breaking feature to me, no matter how insane that may seem. I did return to test it on WoW couple times, but I just felt empty. There was no social interaction, I never got to know anything about those people. People didn't even say "hi" anymore. We couldn't continue to level up thorough questing together, or something else. That's how I formed friends. I got to know a really nice dude from another country who we spent long time playing together with and talking about stuff. Only because I happened to compliment his healing skills, where it all started, and we could continue playing together and talking when ending the dungeon. This was rare happening, but with automated tools it becomes closer to impossible. The needs to be some necessary socializing to induce more socializing, I feel.


I'm open to some sort of tools to help with dungeon search, the old style was archaic indeed, but making the whole process automatic kills the game for me. Most of my enjoyment in WoW was (mostly tanking) endless 5-man dungeons, forming the group for them was part of the fun. LFG spam, and messaging random people in the level range worked well, it really was not that cumbersome. The success chance of somebody accepting to join, by just me messaging them was like 30-50%, or something along the lines, can't remember. Helped to to ask them -nicely-. These are community enrichening activities. I could level up while forming the group, was no need to be devoted to the group all the time. 5 hours it didn't take in that game, at least, but your FFXI point may be accurate. What it took was bit of activity, bit of positivity to get that group formed and make people feel optimistic about the group. Lots of fun was had and we likely ran multiple dungeons. It was fun to play with same peeps on other occasion, and know their style a bit. If somebody rage quitted the group, it was not difficult to search for one more person with the power of of 4 people. But of course, sometimes happened so that everybody left, and you just had to give up. Which happened, though, much, much, much less than after the LFG tool was introduced. We could actually wipe many times without people saying a word, or laughing about it. I think those were in the in own way, part of the MMORPG experience. Definitely time wasting... but isn't that what MMORPG's are about?


I don't have time like I used to, to waste on games, either, but that increases the importance of me spending the game time enjoyably, and that was the way I enjoyed playing MMORPG most. Leading challening, small group activities, socializing at the same time (and before and after it too). The challenge was taken away from me, the socializing was taken away from me and the importance of leading was taken away from me, so the game died in my eyes.


This is of course about WoW, and I hate to bring it up, but that's my only good reference point. Other MMORPG's I've played are not comparable. FFXIV may handle this differently, I'm interested to see how differently.

Originally posted by Yaevindusk
Originally posted by Kobao
I see your point, and understand. This is just my taste in games, and am wondering whether the feature will be in FFXIV. Does the system create the groups automatically and summon them to the dungeon? It would be more ok (for me), if those two don't apply.


It's a valid taste to have in games, please don't get me wrong.  There have been good points against it, but as a whole it fixes more things and helps more people than it offends.  For instance someone might argue that someone might be less inclined to be a jerk if they're on your same server.  Though nowadays I'd even question that, as I'm sure we all see quite a lot of open jerks on our servers no matter the game we play.  Some may also think it affects the world pride, but a game that has it also has to make sure they build a game from the ground up that will properly support it and perhaps have reason to have it.


I'm not sure what entails the Duty Finder at the moment.  Though we're hoping it will help people play their favorite jobs without the discrimination that was found in 1.0 or in other games.  It will pool players from their own data centers for dungeon content and the like.  Might even be able to find people on your server to do world content with (we're not really sure at the moment).  Will also likely be used with PvP content if you don't have a group of people to enter it with.  The game will give / have it's own PvP skills separate from PvE ones, though.  So the two won't nerf or make each other more powerful presumably.


Thanks. So the whole picture is not clear yet... I will wait and see, but it would drastically affect the likehood of me playing this game, if it's completely automated & summon thing.

I see your point, and understand. This is just my taste in games, and am wondering whether the feature will be in FFXIV. Does the system create the groups automatically and summon them to the dungeon? It would be more ok (for me), if those two don't apply.

I just stumbled on this while searching info about the game. Is this feature actually coming? I was kind of interested to try the game now, but my interest was killed right after reading about this. Automatically searches suitable member from all servers... just, ARGH. Why nobody has the guts to do things differently than Blizzard? Blizzard's game design is like plague that keeps on spreading.


This feature was the final blow to my WoW career, and interest in MMORPG's in general. Haven't really played a MMORPG in 3.5 years.

Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Xthos

I think the cross server LFG tool is the worst, I am not a big fan of the tool as it is, but if it was atleast confined to the server you play on, it would better.....Sure the cross server type may be quick to get the group, but I think you sacrifice your server community in the process.


I think multiples things ruin the community, the move to everyone can solo most content, with railed quest hubs isn't doing much for it either.


I don't care about a server community. The game community is bigger and better. Why restrict to a single server? If the goal is to make friends, have a bigger pool.

Cross server LFG tool is the best. In fact, it would be even better to have cross GAME lfg tool. At least we have some cross game social tools like friend list.

It's bigger, but being better is your opinion. Smaller communities are better for some people and the social dynamics are more interesting, because people know each other, and everybody can't just do what they want if they want to be respected by other players. Cross-server system breaks the social dynamics, there's nothing anymore, you just have random chats with people you probably don't meet again, which is cool too, but it doesn't mature and evolve the social circle. I don't think the goal is to make more and more friends. Some friends are made, but sometimes you make enemies too and sometimes something between. To me though, the cross-server LFG system is not good even for making "friends", it doesn't promote anykind of social interaction.

I knew LFG tool would suck bad, when it was first announced in WoW, and I stopped playing that game due to it and still think the same way. Especially cross-server LFG tool. It's just not made for some gamers. Some seem to like it, and that's fine, but there needs to be games without it, becaue finding, forming a group and taking it to the dungeon and finishing it is one of the fun social challenges in MMORPG's, and for me it was the absolute best thing (about WoW). Some peeps don't want be active, especially socially, when gaming and just want the content to be fed at even pace without struggles and I understand that completely, but it doesn't work for everybody. So I'm not surprised at the current 50/50 state of the vote.

Odd way to think about it.... I think the interesting and fun part is to find those more or less efficient ways doing the "grind". It requires people are forced to do the "grind". That forcing is actually fun, because it wouldn't even be game if it didn't force some sort of rules on you. People probably stop playing the game if the "grind" isn't fun to at least some extent, or at least should. Many would probably use the skipping method, but that's just because it happens to be the fastest route to the goal, but it doesn't mean they wouldn't enjoy the grind and that they won't regret skipping. It's easy to take that route, but it's rarely fulfilling. The skipping method breaks the game.

Originally posted by destro521
Originally posted by Kobao
Originally posted by destro521

Im spending this much money because i am currently studying a cert4 in digital and interactive games design and will be following a career path in either game design or software developement and would not like to have to upgrade a year or two down the line.


Im also using an old dell alienware to fit my needs and isnt really cutting it, and with the fact that dell voids warranty apon upgrades and over-prices their graphics upgrades then i feel that i need to break away from dell and build a computer that will last me for as long as possible


Do you have a quality monitor? I don't know what's the lastest... high resolution IPS panel or the sort possbily with some sort or arm to pivot it and move it around. That's what you need to put money into. Possibly second cheaper monitor. Then chair and table that allow ergonomical sitting position, if you don't have them. Then mechanical keyboard that suits you. Then decent audio system. Then you can think about the rig, but it definitely doesn't require that much money, like everyone said. Almost everytime someone wants to take their PC up a notch for the first time, they go overboard and focus on completely wrong things. Also it's not wise to spend much on high end parts, because they lose value with incredible speed and you're better off upgrade every 3 years or so, which doesn't mean full upgrade. I don't know do you have power supply figured out, but hopefully you realize that is the most important part, that also trasfers to next upgrade well. I don't know about those cases, they look ridiculous to be honest, so I'm not expecting their function to be best, I may be wrong. I assume you chose them by looks.


Sorry to be frank, but people do this same mistake again and again. Some experienced people advise them and then either they reconsider their build and come up with something more reasonable, or they feel insulted and don't listen at all and waste their money, but probably won't regret though because they don't know any better so I don't know if there's that much harm done. I suggest you go to some better site than MMORPG for finding advice. There's plenty of them, Google helps.

I picked the case based on high airflow but after reading the thread i am thinking of maybe goign down to a 660 or 670, the reason it costs alot is because im ordering the parts in australia and the prices are substantially higher in some parts, i have a 23" 1080p monitor currently and will be using my 7.1 surround headset for  my audio im going with a 750 watt power supply, a razer deathstalker keyboard and i should have rephrased my introductory post as i am getting it custom built as i am paying for half the price and my dad is paying the other half so he deosnt want me wasting his money on me trying to build a computer and then breaking the components. i have the chair, the table which are erganomical. Could you suggest some cases for me to look into? im also getting 2 Barracuda 2tb HDD's and a 120GB SSD for the OS drive, i admit i should have included all of this when i first asked the question,  i have just been stressed and losing sleep over this thats all.

I may have been quick to judge then. Make sure you are getting quality power supply though, 750W means nothing if it's low quality. Lower quality ones are also annoyingly noisy. I've had power supply fail and it took rest of the rig with it and second time I regretted buying bit too powerless one, which I couldn't transfer to my new upgraded rig. You should check out some better forum for this stuff, people are more upto date with stuff there and can figure out a more bang-for-buck build (but still well powerful enough for you). They know better about the cases as well. I don't know what's suitable, propably


And it's good to lose few sleep over it and think it through, before wasting money. That's the process most people go before buying something bigger (unless they have too much money). There's a lot of other cool things to spend money on.

Never upgrade graphic card before you actually, really need to (like experience notable performance issues with the games you actively play and really need to crank full graphics). Even then, it's good to look at used graphic card. SSD is one of the better ideas to get into your PC, if you need to have something.  I'm also wondering whether that large SSD is necessary, when you have HDD's for storage, at least you don't need the more expensive one. Better yet, travel somewhere nicer for a week, and forget about the number crunching hardware.

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