Then there's also Dark and Light, POTBS, Darkfail, etc..... :-p

That's why I never look at "is this their first" as an indication.  I look at what their dedication is, how much quality time they are spending on something (real quality time) how they stick to their underlying vision, etc.

Originally posted by Murashu

Originally posted by Taram 

As to the PVP... they've been stating that there will be PVP in this for a while.  Why anyone is surprised by it is beyond me.

As far as I know they haven't shared any details about the PvP though. Death penalties, player looting, open world vs arenas that type stuff is what I am interested in hearing. When the OP mentioned looting someones light saber I was surprised but hopeful that they do add some sort of penalty for dying so the PvP doesn't end up playing like some FPS and players actually have a reason not to do stupid things and die.

 

Maybe EA did learn from WARs mistakes so they won't make a bunch of promises to break at launch.

I'm opposed to open looting absolute ffa pvp.  not because I don't mind the concept, but it tends to attract the absolute worst kind of gamer around.

I do hope there is some penalty for pvp of course, but the current round of experiences in POTBS (where cross-teaming is now officially blessed) and darkfall (need I say more?) demonstrates that while the concepts are nice, they attract the worst kind of players.

Originally posted by Tarka

I applaud peoples enthusiasm for a new title.  However, try to stay objective, otherwise you could be in for a shock.

Here's two words that prove that no matter what you're game development history you can still c*ck it up:  Brad McQuaid.

Here's another two words:    Richard Garriott

Now, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't SW:TOR going to be Biowares first MMO?

Mypoint is that Bioware have as much a chance to screw up their product as the others have of making a successful one.  

Sure, theres a chance that the very name of the company might cause an initial flood in sales, but that doesn't guarantee that the game will appeal to a large enough audience to be classed as successful on a longer time period.  Initial sales are only the tip of the iceberg, so to speak.  It's all about sub retention.

Come back after 6 months after release and THEN we'll know just how well Bioware pulled this off.

Right now, everybody is speculating.  However, Bioware has one of the best gaming pedigrees that exists.  I would say that title for title, they have probably been better than Blizzard in churning out blockbusters (though its close.)  They, like Blizzard, have a different mentality when approaching games.  They take their sweet time, and are more interested in quality than quantity.

Therefore when they do something like this, I give them the benefit of the doubt.  There was talk about them in this project back when the NGE hit.  Another thing Bioware has that other companies lack:  cold hard cash, and a ton of it.  This isn't a company that needs a financial savior.  Like Blizzard, they can throw a lot of cash at this project.  While money doesn't mean everything, it certainly helps.

If I were a betting man, I'd double down on SW:TOR becoming a massive hit.

Originally posted by Murashu

Originally posted by segyn

 At the end, the Knight killed, the Sith looted him, took his lightsaber, and equipped it for a dual-saber build. Awesome Duel wielding light sabers woot

Fully implemented voice overs? Who F'n cares? 4th pillar story arcs? Who F'n cares?
 

 

PvP & player looting? This just made me much more interested in this game.

I can't see them going the "hardcore" route.  But the fact they intend to support pvp, and it doesn't appear to be just an afterthought (a la wow) i like this.  I've always said Star Wars offers the best chance for epic pvp and rvr, if only a company really tried it.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Not only is it unlikely to fail War and AoC didn't fail either. They may not have lived up to your expectations but they made, and are still making, money.  So your premise has failed.

No, they failed.  Mythic advertised Warhammer as a potential wow-killer.  This wasn't meant to be a niche game.  This was meant to take down Blizzard's titan.  It failed miserably.  AoC was meant to be a game that drew all of the people wanting pvp in.  They had one of the worst launches in the history of gaming, and are basically on life support right now.

I don't see this game failing though.  Bioware has done enough with things.

Originally posted by jakojako

OP:

Really? SWTOR is a failure already? Did you forget who's developing it?

Yeah.. Bioware. They're one of those companies in which everything they touch turns to gold.

Besides that, if the release date is "not going to be before 2011", then why are you expecting a crapload of information to be out to the public already? Which MMO have you seen developed in which all class info, faction info, crafting info, pvp info, and the plethora of other info you ask for was released 2-4 years before the actual game release?

And another thing... Why the hell do people get so pissed off over the jedi class? I can provide statistical information which proves that 90% of star wars fans love jedi (which, by the way, the story was based around).

I see the point where a bunch of kids would just play the game for the jedi class and expect to be uber-pwn-rape-sauce, but still. Tell me with a straight face that you think this game would be complete without the jedi class.

I'd also like to note that when Blizzard came out with World of Warcraft, the same statements were made.  For those who thought WoW would be a failure, all one had to do was point out their pedigree.

1.)  The Diablo series, massive hits

2.)  The warcraft RTS games, legendary RTS games

3.)  Starcraft, probably the best RTS ever made.

In short, there were only about 6 or 7 games, yet all of them were massive hits.  Blizzard came to MMO design with a different perspective, being a successful company, but one that operated not on the quantity of games, but its quality.  Bioware has basically been the same way.  Anything they have touched has turned to gold because of the approach they take.  I'm interested in seeing how the bioware mentality translates into an MMO.

---

Originally posted by Sabradin

I'm going to take the opportunity to vent
WHY THE FUCK can't people just accept the methods, logic, patterns, and systems that have proven to be soo much more successful than any other fucking theory or attempt to be better?  WHY THE FUCK.. do people have to think they're fucking inventing something new?  WHY THE FUCK can't you just use whats already been shown to work?!  I know for a fucking fact that if you copied every fucking single piece of logic that WoW follows only you have new/different LOOKS (like different named citities, spells, etc.) you would have over a million subscribers.  BUT NO everyone thinks their fucking genius and will reinvent the wheel.  Guess what.. YOU'RE NOT.. you're a nobody who wants to find their spotlight instead of just being successful.
Jesus Christ WOW didn't do a single fucking thing that was original.  They took the methods that other games had that were shown to be successful and dropped the ones that weren't.  My Lord is it that hard?
God, thats what grinds my gears.
i couldn't lock this up tonight
stamp me!

---

 
And this is why nobody listens to you.  Try to at least be reasonable and somewhat of an adult when posting, make arguments, ideas, etc.
 
What WoW did was original in the sense that they took all those great things that made other games successful (I use "great" not as my personal preference, but what people wanted) and gave them a level of polish not yet seen in the MMO industry.  They took the game they developed uber seriously, and as a result were wildly successful.  Yet those circumstances can't be duplicated (not right now at least) but if people want to learn the lesson from wow, its not do what they did, but take the approach they did.
How many games have things deemed critical to the game mechanics that never get in, or get in over a year after launch?  Where fundamental parts of the game are fundamentally broken.  You really didn't see this with WoW.  So Bioware should be praised for at least trying something new and innovative (though not really, LOTRO tried and mainly failed with story based gaming), though I think at the same time they will learn the lessons Blizzard is teaching the MMO industry and to this day companies refuse to listen to.

Originally posted by singsofdeath

 Nah. He's perfectly right. That's the way this game is going to be in the eyes of the sandbox/SWG pre-CU/UO crowd. It will be a failure because it doesn't cater to their tastes and thus, can't be good. 

 

Everyone else....well, I'd advise people, as usual, to stay put and wait. As i said before, BioWare has a big chunk of respect from me, simply because so far, they have never disappointed me with a game, so I am fairly optimistic about this one. That the trailer doesn't tell anything about the game, is just common sense. 

 

And that in the end, people should wait for the final product to be just around the corner to make up their minds is also common sense. Except for the sandbox/UO crowd. Because for them, this game is definately not the one. I don't say this with a sense of anger or hatred towards those people, but just as a statement of fact. 

 

Cheers.

I would probably fit in the "pre-cu/pre-nge" fanboi mold.  Yet I'm still looking forward to this game.  If there's absolutely no pvp, it will be a shame.  This has all the workings of a good rvr engine, a chance to make a true galatic war that SWG was never able to do beyond a joke.

Bioware has done outstanding jobs in creating immersion in the single player RPG's they've done.  Overall, that's what an MMO needs to do for the playerbase.  Make them feel part of something.  Some of the things they are trying I like from the RP standpoint in making a real story.  

And being honest, I do not think many of us who loved pre-cu would accept the pre-cu if it were launched today in the state it was.  The lack of polish, and the simple fact it is dated.  So I'm willing to see what this thing does.

Though I haven't really heard from him lately, Mackenna is my fellow society mate on BB in LDJ.  :)

That is a shame to hear you are going.  It is always good to see the old faces sticking around.  Me, I'm all about the pvp mindset, and I'm just as known for my forum pvp as I am for my regular, but at the same time, i try to keep things cool.  :)

Originally posted by Havohej

GB's animosity toward PotBS's forum admins aside ( :p lub u GB ), he's right in that there are A LOT of egotistical players in that game.  One downfall of PotBS is that there's no game mechanic in place to facilitate or encourage groups of societies working together or making pacts with groups on the other side.  I understand why there are no means of making deals with the enemy, but I think PotBS would benefit from some sort of formal alliance system.  But since there isn't one, small socs don't want to merge and lose their "name" and larger socs all tend to think they should be "top dawg".  Makes it tough to get folks to work together, but I'm sure you've seen plenty of examples of that by now.

Even so, there are "national councils" on some servers.  Blackbeard Britain and Blackbeard Spain have an external forum and shared ventrilo - I'm not privy to what goes on on those forums (I'm an Antigua pirate and only a recent addition to Blackbeard Spain) but given that BritBeard's got map wins and BritSpain recently pulled it off I assume that they're organized and working together nicely.  Whether France has their own out-of-game forum or not, I have no idea... but if they don't, one of the leaders of the prominent societies should consider getting a free one from guildlaunch or something and passing it out to the leaders of the other socs even if it feels like herding cats at times - somebody has to make the first move, and that person always gets flack... until it starts working.

On a semi-related note, I don't know if you're talking about BB or Rackham, BUT I can tell you that there's been an agreement made on Blackbeard where the primary Spanish RvR societies have agreed to let BB France rebuild, so the bulk of Spain won't be flipping any Frog ports or interfering with French trying to flip Brit ports (though I think once ports are fully flipped, normal red zone PvP isn't covered by this).  You may get random Dons who don't listen and don't care trying to flip French ports, but it won't be the Dons' RvR Superstars.  At least, not until some clash of egos happens between France and Spain (saw it happen on Antigua, human nature plus what GB said about egotistical jerks).  Anyways, for however long it lasts, I hope it helps BB France get back on their feet.

And whichever France you're talking about (be it Blackbeard of Rackham) good luck with getting some real economy going for them.  I know people on Blackbeard like Ulot Ooma who have no qualms about trading and facilitating trade across national lines - if you're on BB, consider getting in touch with him if you haven't already.  His forum handle is Ulot and in-game I'm pretty sure he always has diplo.

LULZ  <3 Mackenna!

Yup Ulot always has diplo, but he's currently serving a ban on the POTBS forums, whoops!

As to the thread, the evil in me thought "Or the Spanish could always take Biloxi"  I had my experience with treaties this past map.  They are impossible to manage on a nationwide level, so now I just no longer care.  Your best bet at influencing such an agreement, get in touch with the major econ ****** of those Spanish, set something up.  That way, they will make sure that when a port attack is called, they will reject those calls for attack, since the risks outweigh the benefits.  Sure, with Biloxi under Spanish hands he could have acess to near tax free wine, but good luck finding someone to setup shop out there for him.

I would still say based on what they are doing, certain aspects of the game indeed are revolutionary.  I tried EvE, and it bored the crap out of me.  I don't want to have to sail hours to something.  That appeals to a certain group, that ain't me.  I would still say hands down the pvp mechanics are the best out of any game.  While the PvE isn't that good, it really isn't that good in EvE either.  It's a pvp game.  If you want PvE, you play WoW, because when it comes to PvE, nothing beats wow.

I write as someone who has been a longtime player of this game, and one who still supports Pirates of the Burning Sea.  However, I am well aware that what I write there will never make the light of day.  My previous attempt to do so has resulted in a 2 week forum ban for "insulting FLS staff" of which i did nothing of the sort.

In short, I write, along with the support of many others, in protest of what they have done with the firing of one of their general managers, as well as their inconsistent rules for banning players.  Over the weekend, one of their GM's was fired, for a host of reasons.  One of them was she was in her eyes, she was becoming too friendly with the players on Blackbeard Spain, even though FLS told the GM's to get out there and provide a visible presence.  She was also fired for not banning someone she didn't know was on a perma ban (and who during this time had done nothing worthy of a ban) and for handling people's support issues directly, rather than going through the support system.  In short, she cut a lot of the red tape, everyone loved it, but FLS wanted their hands in the til.

Now all of these could merit discplinary action to be sure, but I support the question that FLS needs to ask themselves is the following:

In today's troubled economy, is it worth firing someone who has done nothing destructive, and has done nothing but good for FLS, and has done nothing more than make the players happy?  Criticism of this decision resulted in across the board forum bans over at FLS.  When people complained about it in-game in private tells with other players, they were receiving messages from FLS letting them know their private tells were being monitored.  While such is the right of FLS, are such strongarm tactics really neccessary?

There has also been some serious problems with the consistency of people being banned because of in-game actions.  A certain individual was banned, and the official email stated that he was banned for "continious violation of forum rules" and apparent account sharing (he shared his own account with himself once and only once to post something.)  He fully admitted to cross teaming a long time ago (before it was made illegal by FLS) and submitted  a ticket to have his characters transferred once FLS stated it was a bannable offense, which was subsequently ignored.

Today on the Blackbeard forums, Danicia stated that nobody can be banned in game because of anything done in the forums.  Yet during an IRC chat with Rhaegar, he stated that his in game ban had to do with forum rule violations.

This game is an excellent game, but actions like these need to be voiced.  As someone who used to write here for this website, I'd like the opportunity to write a guest editorial on this issue.  So whoever is running the writing department over here now, if you see this, would appreciate being contacted.

Time for a little history of BB.  :)

As far as the Mafia, they were one of the first frenchies to transfer, weren't they?  I specifically remember the Musketeers as the one with all the ships.  Think Alpha still has screenies, will have to hit him up lol.  I'm not the largest fan of instances, but like you, I'm a group PvP guy.  I don't 1 v 1 much, if at all.  I prefer the "organized chaos" of group PvP.  I know the group I've rolled with on several occasions introduced new tactics, skill styles, etc and then started watching everyone copy ours.  (Now everyone is chaning extra rations and flagship indefinetly lol.)  And as I've said before, when you get a good 6 v 6, no game's PvP can even come close to it.

As far as the Yacht Club, they are an interesting breed.  They contain the best of PvP'ers and people of class, and the worst at the same time.  A few of their guys were notorious exploiters (i.e. a pherc standing up to 2 2nd's and a 3rd all using Ultima Ratio with explosive shot loaded at 95% accuracy, and the Pherc taking less than 400 damage.)  There was the infamous boarding exploit where they found a way to generate a "shadow wave" where you had to take down the wave twice to have the waves reduced by one.  (hence you had pirates being outnumbered 3 waves to 1, taking down all waves, and only losing maybe at most 1 or 2 waves.)  On the other hand, they have guys like Ryan Winfield who simply does not know how to die in combat, the man has 9 times 9 lives.  :)

When they were pirates, their 3 map wins, a lot of them came from the "4am flip" where they would only flip ports at 4am.  the 6 v 9 reverse gank, they were about the only ones who thought it was a great system on BB.  Yet at the same time, they re-rolled French for sever health, and ever since they've rolled French, a lot of the BS has stopped (except for a few of their more immature mates who you get in any society, annoying as they are) and PvP has been outstanding.  It's why all of a sudden people are constantly trying to find a way to transfer characters from Antigua to Blackbeard.  (And I hate that!)

Ginger is.... welll.... Ginger.  Never saw someone who mastered the ability to dump guns like he could lol

As far as markets are concerned, there are a lot of truly perverse incentives that stop a fully functioning market.  When the Dauntless frigate came out, the insurance on it was insane.  A 17k ship (even if you paid for the Movs for it came out to about 30k) was offering 70k in insurance when it sunk.  Many shipwrights produced this ship in bulk, went and got it sunk, and collected the insurance.  While lineship bundles originally (and still in a sense) keep the biggest bundleboats still "somewhat" rare, the amount of resources required has caused people to go to closed society loops.  Personally, I don't find that as efficient.  My Corunne MC which is being built has been a national project.  It's part of what makes our British alliance so good.  While there are some loops, trade between socities is far higher than it is with most.  The AH has become so borked on BB, a lot of people in the Brit side began going to private contracts.  Since the blind auction house doesn't allow you to really do such (no buy orders, no ability to see what is available at what price) it was only logical.  Someone would be enterprising enough to figure out that if he contacted the right people, he would corner the market, and give people very little chance to compete against him and the operation he maintains.

Personally I would've made the big SOL's rewards contingent on RvR participation.  For the freetrader ships, they should've implented a system that allowed the freetrader to be a real smuggler in times of contention, where the goods he dropped off were of real concrete value in things, outside of the absurd "unrest bundles" which are only useful when tons of people are doing them, and in getting the port to initially flip so there are better spawns.  But in order to do that, there would need to be real concrete purposes to winning a map, rather than a few citations of conquest, which are for the most part worthless.

Originally posted by Vetarnias

Originally posted by iceman00

We would indeed have to disagree.  I can think of many reasons of the steep PvP loss entirely independent of the economy.  Its a game where loss actually matters.  No more PvP which is entirely pointless.  I for one like that.  It absolutely sucks when you lose that last dura, no doubt about that.  But it's a game where actions have consequences.  PvP becomes that much more intense when it isn't a zerge fest.  The point of PvP in this game isn't "wait out the zerge fest or leave the zone."  Simply put, a group HAS to work well together to survive.  When you die, there's no coming back from that in that particular fight.  It's why I still think that when you get a 6 v 6, its bar none the best PvP in any game.

Very interesting conversation, and perhaps the first sustained exchange of ideas in a few months.

Loss might matter, but in the absence of a genuine RvR conflict, the PvP remains pointless, and the loss becomes a burden.  Why should you risk anything if, in the end, your own side receives nothing for its effort, even in victory?

Map resets are necessary to prevent a lopsided server that can't be rearranged without starting over.  But that also means that the rewards must in themselves be meaningless apart from a purely symbolic value, lest that confer an advantage upon a winning faction.  But even with that, it gets tiresome if you show up and lose every single time.

I know both you and GB play Brits; I played French, arguably the least popular faction, and that made all the difference in the world.  You never really had population problems; we did.  And in the end, it meant showing up at port battles while being sure to lose because we didn't have the numbers; and even with a full 24, we knew that even if we won, we probably would face a much greater setback than the Brits would in losing the battle, unless we sustained no losses whatsoever.

In a war of attrition, we would end up losing our ships and forced to grind to replace them, while all the Brits had to do was to pool together their greater numbers and replenish their fleet much faster.  In the best of cases, regardless of PvP skill, it was your garage-league team facing the Yankees; with population levels becoming critical, it meant your left-fielder was off on vacation that weekend, and your right-handed pitcher had sprained his arm and was now throwing from the left.

In the best of cases, barring a miracle, the final score is easily predictable; with even lower population levels, even showing up at all is a waste of time.  Even with map resets, there is just no chance of changing the outcome with a major population imbalance problem.

Get a 6v6 together, and I have no doubt that it's fun. But then I could get that playing NavyField, entirely for free -- and it gets tiresome after a week.

Regarding the economy, I was under the impression that the economic players were among the first to leave the game, precisely because they were considered second-class to the PvPers.  PvPers might have a tendency to think like this in most games, but in other games, crafting takes time and sometimes involves skill, so PvPers grudgingly acknowledge your presence, because they don't have the inclination to spend hours doing it themselves.  But in this game, every PvPer can just waste a few minutes crafting his daily labour allotment, with no time lost by the player himself.  Which meant, at best, closed societies where even the most ardent PvPer contributed to the crafting effort (such as your hemp producers), and at worst, cross-server lot-swapping and multi-boxing. 

At most, you needed one level-45 freetrader in your society to build the master shipyards, but for other people, a level-20 freetrader (usually an alt, so as not to destroy his reputation with foreign nations) was enough: Trade Connections, and the ability to sail the lowest of the cargo ships, the Dromedary, were all you needed.  Maybe in some cases advanced structures were worth it; but when you were French and underpowered, your Antilles cities were easy pickings and constantly in the red, so it was not exactly an advantage to go there.

You're right about the economy serving the PvP, and I remember writing something to this effect six months ago or so.  But that is where the relationship ends.  The PvP becomes meaningless in the absence of genuine RvR -- of actual need to control resources, which is warring has always been about.  If you can set up production in an enemy port with a good reputation level every FT starts out with, cranking out vital resources immediately shipped to your own side on a ship which can't be attacked (in the absence of a red circle) with only a minimal increase in taxation, it basically means that the RvR is meaningless outside of deep water harbours, because of the taxes involved in the building of bundleboats -- but now I'm hearing they want to get rid of bundleboats altogether?

So let's add risk to RvR.  Prevent the production of certain goods in enemy ports (would you let a First Rate sail out of port, let alone see it being built without doing something?), put a heavy excise tax on other goods to discourage their leaving the country; charge prohibitive customs duties to foreign producers posting on your auction houses), etc, etc.

In fact, I remember suggesting once that map resets ought to be done away with, to be replaced by periodic map calculations to determine the winner, and that then ports are slowly given back to their starting faction (in a "Dispatch from Europe: Treaty cedes Tampa back to the French!").  It certainly sounds more appealing and mysterious than: "Map reset.  Let's start over."

In fact, in the entire PvP/econ debate, there is one interesting remark I saw on several occasions: PvPers want red circles; economic players hate them.  PvPers want to take a port; economic players with production there would rather have it firmly in the hands of the enemy, even if that involves higher taxes, rather than see it perenially contested, especially if their own side is the weaker one.  PvPers understand that they need economic production for their war effort; economic players know that they need military action to make profits.  But the two don't trust one another, and have completely different aims.  Game mechanics just lopsided the relationship in favour of the PvPers -- and the economic players seem to have left.

Some good points.  And yes, it always is good to have a real exchange of ideas.  I completely agree that the "end game" is left undefined.  There really is no consequence to winning a map.  There is no consequence to a lot of things.  What POTBS does have going for them is the sheer rush of a 6 v6 or a 24 v 24 port battle.  Without a doubt, that is some of the most fun I've ever had in the game.

I honestly don't think being a Brit has much of anything to do with it.  There was a time when TRM on blackbeard owned the Brits.  I remember the French and Brits teaming up once to counter Ginger Magician.  We brits saw the french fleet and were scared out of our minds.  We realized at that time "okay, they seriously have twice the SOL"s we have"  (This was around the time of the original server transfers.)  The transfers first to Rackham then to Antigua destroyed any organization on the Brits.  We had no economy.  Heck a national meeting in Vent produced at the time all the active players in the Brit nation.... all 15 of them.  We did a lot of recruitment amongst friends and new players.  and eventually people like myself, Rapture Lohan, and Chip Graybeard not only streamlined our economy, but greatly enhanced it.  Alpha was around providing a lot more leadership in port battles.  To be honest it is only just now for the first time since server transfers that we Brits are able to pump out SOL's like we do.  And our numbers are still less of a story than you think.  What we do have are several people who are serious about eco.  This complements our people who are serious about PvP.  (Some of us big eco guys are also big pvpers, we know our market lol.)

Originally posted by DJXeon

Originally posted by iceman00

We would indeed have to disagree.  I can think of many reasons of the steep PvP loss entirely independent of the economy.  Its a game where loss actually matters.  No more PvP which is entirely pointless.  I for one like that.  It absolutely sucks when you lose that last dura, no doubt about that.  But it's a game where actions have consequences.  PvP becomes that much more intense when it isn't a zerge fest.  The point of PvP in this game isn't "wait out the zerge fest or leave the zone."  Simply put, a group HAS to work well together to survive.  When you die, there's no coming back from that in that particular fight.  It's why I still think that when you get a 6 v 6, its bar none the best PvP in any game.

 

Don't forget PvP loss comprises of not only a dura point, it also includes the loss of all permanent fittings costing up to 50k & your unsecured cargo which can cost a lot more.

In my mind at least this is the main reason why players avoid red circles & inhibits PvP fun.

The economy has nearly all its loss or market from PvP players & this should not be the case for a healthy prosperous game imo.

There's a person on blackbeard that represents the Yacht Club.  normally, i view their kind as representing all that is wrong with this game.  But you made this point on the POTBS, and he came with what I view an equally compelling counterpoint, one that I found valid.

You could make PvP entirely risk free, and many people would still not PvP.  People do not join a game that heavily advertises PvP for no risk.  A lot of people don't PvP...... because they aren't very good at it.  That's not a knock on them.  It's simply that this isn't their style of play.  It's not a discussion of one being a "carebear."

I remember when I played pre-cu SWG.  PvP was for all intents and purposes risk free.  There was a group of rebels who were essentially being bullies on Dantooine.  We decided to challenge their perception, and had a few stalemate battles.  We then decided to take the fight to them.  We performed a march on their home city, taking the fight to their home turf.  They came out to defend.... and got slaughtered.  The slaughter continued for 4 hours.  We marched all around their city, proclaiming that the Empire intended to restore order so that her children would no longer feel chaos.  (Great RP arc lol.)  This was absolutely humiliating for them.  After that night, we didn't see them PvPing anybody for 3 months.  They ran up against a team of obviously superior skill, and wanted nothing to do with it.  For others, PvP is not their style.  They don't want to enter something they feel they suck at.  (Even if they might be good.)  That's just the way things are.  Making pvp "more accessible" by eliminating any sense of risk won't change a thing.  Not to mention that it would wreck the economy, since right now, economy serves PvP.  It should work to more, but right now, it doesn't.

Of course, a lot of this is FLS' fault.  They appealed to gamers who thought they wouldn't be getting what they got.  They made the game as PvP having a niche, not PvP being all important in the game.

We would indeed have to disagree.  I can think of many reasons of the steep PvP loss entirely independent of the economy.  Its a game where loss actually matters.  No more PvP which is entirely pointless.  I for one like that.  It absolutely sucks when you lose that last dura, no doubt about that.  But it's a game where actions have consequences.  PvP becomes that much more intense when it isn't a zerge fest.  The point of PvP in this game isn't "wait out the zerge fest or leave the zone."  Simply put, a group HAS to work well together to survive.  When you die, there's no coming back from that in that particular fight.  It's why I still think that when you get a 6 v 6, its bar none the best PvP in any game.

Originally posted by DJXeon

Originally posted by iceman00

 

With all due respect, you got smacked down on the POTBS  forums for this, and I concurred with it.

Me I'm an eco guy.  Love the economy.  Spend a lot of my time doing econ.  Yet I understand that the ultimate purpose of my econ is to get my British brethren in the best stuff they can afford, so we can use that better gear to give us an advantage against the other nationals and rats on the open sea.

 

Don't recall getting smacked down but if you believe it so be it.

For someone who spends a lot of time in the economy kinda proves my point, everyone needs to spend a lot of time doing eco activities or PVE to maintain a constant push in PVP. This is because when you lose in PVP combat it has high loss associated with it.

If you join Potbs for only PVP with no intention to play the economy you wont stay long.

If you join Potbs to play the economy with no intention to PVP you will stay much longer.

Thus the game caters for mainly eco minded players imo.

In one sense you are right eco-players produce the vehicles or ships needed to PVP without which PvP would hardly exist except in fallback or civilian ships.

I don't think that's the point.  the POINT is that the functions of the game serve PvP.  PvP does not exist to serve the econ.  While some PvP'ers and Port Battle guys have made me quite rich (LOL) in the end, I am at their service.  I make the stuff so they can blow things up.  A lot of the good PvP'ers i know don't even do econ.  one of them is quite content to farm ouit his needs to people.  I handle the  sails and riggings, someone else makes the runners rigs, and so on.  the economy isn't an end game in and of itself.  PvP and RvR is.  I think its a distinction with a difference, and a very important one.

How did I drive em out of business?

A.)  I outsold them

B.) I was able to do it at a far cheaper price.  They couldn't compete making riggings when I had everyone doing the subcomponents at a 5% markup.  I then threw 600 units of Riggings on the AH at 300 when he was before selling a lot more in price, and he couldn't compete.  I then began establishing a network of all the big shipwrights for the Brits.  Those textiles were immediately sold to them at a discounted rate, provided they remain a steady client and don't resell on the AH since I was monitoring them twice a day.  They had precious little options to sell with.  When I saw new players or societies, if they were new players I drafted them into my operation making hemp.  They only made a few thousand doubloons a week, but their ships were paid for up to level 39 at which time I would offer them the opportunity to go to another business, fully backed by my money.  Their lots and mats were paid for, and each received a "severance" package of 50k-100k, depending on what they were producing next.

Only one person on Blackbeard does it better, and he does brass and we get along great, so I'm not too worried.  :)

Well the reason you weren't selling to Brits around that time is.... that's when i started my textile business.  I moved into the private contract domain and a lot of shipwrights are now in my pocket on Blackbeard.  :)

Originally posted by Lukeion

It certainly got it flaws but, i just resubbed again yesterday and this game is fun. It's very heavy on the pvp.

 

But give the free trial a go, it's worth the 14 days for sure and you might just find yourself wanting some months more out of it after the trial:)

 

PS: go antuiga since the other servers got an unhealthy low populace

Blackbeard also has quite the balanced population as well.  It's not as big as the other servers, but there's always plenty of incredible fights going on.