All Posts by Obraik

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by talanisen

Originally posted by Obraik

You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month.  There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
 

I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot.  If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra.  The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks. 

The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting.  There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink.  There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.

1) "Free" loot card items are No Trade. Bought loot card items are trade-able. Trade-able items have significantly more value than No Trade items. A trade-able speeder is significantly different than a No Trade speeder, even if they have the same stats and skin. Thus, there are in fact loot items that you can only get through "bought" packs.

2) Based on what people are posting about the rarity of the loot cards, it seems likely that could easily wait years to get the loot item they want. That goes a bit beyond "patient".

3) "The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks."  Okay, are you seriously this naive? SOE is incredibly aware of gamer psychology, and has been pretty clear abotutheir desire to boost profits by including RMT in their games. If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards.

4) Status is an incredibly important aspect of any MMO. These loot items are incredibly cool... status items. Just becasue something doesn't impact the game rules, that doesn't mean that it cannot have an incredible impact on the game world.

 

I have to agree with this poster.  These observations seem to reflect the way the loot cards are going to be used, and people are most certainly enticed to play the lottery to get the cards they want now and/or cards that they can trade. 

Also, you can't make the point any clearer than this, so I'm just going to qfe: "If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards."

I also agree that people will be motivated to try for the loot for status.  This only adds to the motivation that exists because some of these cards actually do impact gameplay.

I'm also still wondering if the loot card buffs stack on top of the other ingame buffs you mentioned? 

No, the buffs don't stack.

Originally posted by talanisen

Originally posted by Obraik

You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month.  There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
 

I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot.  If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra.  The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks. 

The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting.  There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink.  There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.

1) "Free" loot card items are No Trade. Bought loot card items are trade-able. Trade-able items have significantly more value than No Trade items. A trade-able speeder is significantly different than a No Trade speeder, even if they have the same stats and skin. Thus, there are in fact loot items that you can only get through "bought" packs.

If you buy a pack and get a loot card, once the card has been redemeed and claimed in game, the item becomes no-trade.  The cards are only tradeable within the TCG.

2) Based on what people are posting about the rarity of the loot cards, it seems likely that could easily wait years to get the loot item they want. That goes a bit beyond "patient".

And then there are others that got multiple loot cards in their free packs.  This is statistics.

3) "The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks."  Okay, are you seriously this naive? SOE is incredibly aware of gamer psychology, and has been pretty clear abotutheir desire to boost profits by including RMT in their games. If they didn't want people buying the booster packs for the loot cards, they wouldn't have included the loot cards.

It's not that they don't want people buying them for loot cards, it's that the main purpose of them is to inject new playable cards into your card deck.  Loot cards are like getting a free pack of gum when you buy those traditional playing cards at the corner dairy.

4) Status is an incredibly important aspect of any MMO. These loot items are incredibly cool... status items. Just becasue something doesn't impact the game rules, that doesn't mean that it cannot have an incredible impact on the game world.

Yes, that's really what the rush for these items is all about.  Practically though, the people getting those items are no better off.

Originally posted by pdxgeek

Originally posted by Obraik

You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month. 

Do you have *any* proof to back up that statement? From what I'm reading it looks like the free cards you get every month are pretty worthless plus you can't trade them with other players.

Besides, it wouldn't be in SOE's best interest to give away the most wanted loot cards for free...and we all know SOE doesn't do anything they don't think is in their best interest.

The fact that certain silly people have spent US$100+ to get loot cards and end up with no loot cards at all, yet others got some of the more sought after loots (like the Podracer and Airspeeder) through their free packs.

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by miagisan

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by miagisan

i don't see what all the hooplah is with the card game. doesn't change the game at all. In fact i wish they instituted it during pre nge...would have been nice.

 

It is this kind of attitude that has allowed things like the combat upgrade, the nge and all the other non sense that has been all things star wars.

 

How does that poem go??

First they sold the crafted vehicles

I remained silent; I was not a vehicle crafter.

 

 

sorry but that answer is BS. I didnt say anything about the gameplay being changed, or vehicles/crafters. I am talking about a superficial CARD game, or minigame, outside of the NGE. This game would have had no impact if it was pre nge or nge. So nice try troll....but i didnt say anything like you were saying.

Well I had a similar misunderstanding with another poster earlier this week.  It might seem like this is just another superficial card game, like Legends of Norath.  Unfortunately, it's not.  It does in fact impact the game by having people play a type of lottery with real money for the chance to get ingame buff cards that affect combat, and to get items that you would have received from crafters otherwise (e.g. clothing and vehicles).
 

The fact of the matter is, this particular card game does change gameplay.  It seems to be a bit unique in this regard.

Unlike Legends of Norath, everyone that plays the game gets 5 free booster packs each month, with each pack having the chance of having loot cards.  From what I've read, LoN doesn't do this, if you want the game loot cards from that then your only option is to buy the packs.  You only "need" (I don't see anything from the loot cards being a "need" type loot) to pay for the packs for loot in the SWG: TCG if you don't have patience..

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by Obraik

The vehicles are really all that compete with crafters (Engineers), but crafters haven't made a high end vehicle since the AV-21.

 

But those are vehicles that crafters could have made.

Could have, yes.  I don't think they'd be all that fun for Engineers to make after a while, vehicles aren't overly complex to make.  I think Engineers deserve more then that.
 

 

Engineers deserve better, so we'll replace their role in the game with RMT items that can be purchased form Sony Online Entertainment.  You don't really believe what you're saying do you?

Actually I guess you only purchase the chance to get these items.  You might drop 20 bucks on booster packs hoping to get a vehicle and end up with a new shirt--something else that crafters used to provide.  Maybe tailors deserve better too...

Making Engineer's a "go between" for the loot card vehicles wouldn't be popular.  They wouldn't be something an engineer could really make a business out of because they'd only be one time use schematics.  IMO, it would seem like making them craftable just for the sake of it - there wouldn't really be a benefit from getting it crafted compared to just giving the vehicle finished.  I guess I'm basing this on what I find fun in crafting with Munitions.

Yes, there are clothing cards, but they don't have sockets like crafted clothing does.  Making THOSE into schematics would make sense.

Originally posted by Platon2x

Originally posted by Obraik

Anything added to the game will split the population in some way.  The game caters to a number of different playstyles and not all can be satisfied at once.
 

 

...but seriously a CARD game ffs!

Again, you might not like it, but there are a healthy number of people that do like it.  Again, giving something to one group will mean another isn't happy. 
 

Originally posted by Platon2x

Originally posted by jaxsundane

Ok I see some article about pvp which at the very least is an actual in game mechanic but honestly a trading card game? This game has moved beyond pathetic it really is just sad.

 

Most decissions made for SWG is against any logic.

All additions to the game split the few players still in the game. When will they understand that adding content aint the same as adding additional planets for example.

Now we have 3 games in one, JTL, SWG and the Card game. And now SWG has more planets than players and another one incomming.

The insta travel wherever you want on top of that make this game feel like a singel player game.

Anything added to the game will split the population in some way.  The game caters to a number of different playstyles and not all can be satisfied at once.
 

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Thanks for the honest response Obraik.  It's one thing to say that similar buffs are available as ingame content (your message), and it's quite another to say that they are just fluff and do not affect gameplay (message from other poster).  

The fact remains that people are spending real dollars for a chance to score themselves a buff card from the Sony Online store.  Their choice, yes, but the way it is set up (like a lottery) encourages them to spend more money than they might otherwise in an attempt to get the desired item.  I still don't believe that this method of implementation is user friendly.  I think it's very SOE profit friendly, which I wouldn't mind IF it was also a benefit to players, which it isn't.

Also, since SOE can alter their game mechanics at anytime (and have done repeatedly), the items paid for with real money can lose their value at anytime.  Furthermore, similar buffs or items that are currently available in game, can be disabled, removed, or rendered harder to obtain, at any time at SOE's sole discretion.  Again, this is not set up in a consumer friendly way.  Also, I'm wondering if the buffs stack?  If so, then people will get the ingame buff AND still be tempted to add to their buff by playing the SOE card game lottery. 

Another issue I see is the downplaying of the roles of professions that provide stat buffs and things like vehicles.  Ingame options stimulate player interaction, making for a more immersive MMO experience.  Loot cards take away from player interaction, and place the interaction between the customer, SOE, and their Visa card, seriously.  It's less immersive, and it costs more money.  Again, not very consumer friendly, at all.

I also have to wonder if this new component to the game had any current player collaboration go into its development.  For example, players were asking for their crafting characters to have a more meaningful role.  Not too long ago, you posted about crafters having greater usefulness due to some recent changes.  This seems to be going in the opposite direction.  Did players ask for this, or is this another bright idea from the executive wing of SOE?  Specifically, did players want loot cards made availabe via a lottery system?  Would they prefer to buy speeders from SOE instead of other players?

I suppose this broadens the topic to credibility in general.  With the introduction of loot cards, Is SOE more or less credible as a provider of an entertainment service that I feel good about using?  In my mind, less, and I didn't believe that was actually possible given their record.

I think you may also see an impact in subscriptions from moves like this, to the negative.  It seems like SOE gets the cash, while players lose it, and the value of their roles in the MMO.  Maybe this is what all the talk about moving away from a subscription model will look like.  Instead of reading debates about sub numbers, we may find ourselves debating whether or not subscriptions are meaningful.  I imagine the new spin might look something like: "well subs may be down, but with our new loot card system, revenue is actually up."  Hopefully, SOE will not find enough people to hook with this new approach, but you never know.

You don't get better odds of getting the loot cards by paying for them then you do if you just rely on the free packs you get each month.  There's no loots that you can only get through the bought packs either.
 

I actively discourage people from buying the packs just for the chance of the loot.  If they're patient, they'll likely get the cards they want just from being a subscriber and not paying anything extra.  The packs are intended to be bought by those actually playing the TCG to further improve their decks. 

The addition of the TCG doesn't negate the changes made that benefits crafting.  There are no new weapons, the clothing doesn't have sockets and the buffs don't take the place of crafted food/drink.  There are the vehicles, but apart from the Podracer they're all slower then most crafted vehicles.

Originally posted by Thunderous

Originally posted by Gutboy

Originally posted by pdxgeek

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by pdxgeek

Yep. I read every word. I don't believe him. Neither does anybody else.

Again.,,there are directions posted by Gutboy.  You've said you have the ability to login, why don't you go prove him wrong? ;)
 

I don't need to prove him wrong. He just is wrong. Do you notice that nobody makes posts about how crowded the servers are but several people make posts about how they log on and can't find people to play with? That means it's generally accepted that the game has a tiny population and up to your side to prove it isn't. I don't know why you're so worked up about this issue considering you are the only person that has ever provided screenshots that actually show a decent group of people online at any one time.

 

You know the world is round too not flat, NEED A FREAKING SCREENSHOT OF THAT?

Really, I go in game post the current people in game by profession and it's not good enough for you, I don't care what you think, get a trial account and check it your self. It's not hard to do.

All the talk of people logging in and "I only saw 6 people all the time I was in game" is bogus.

I have never said the populations are fine, they are very low on most servers, but they sure the hell are not what you "disgruntled vets" say they are, you post numbers you pull out of your A** as though they are true.

I am sorry that everyone in game is not a Cnet starport standing in long buff lines for you to count and instead spread out over 10 planets.

 

 

Seriously...

The servers have been dead for quite some time.  Everyone KNOWS the world is flat.  Everyone KNOWS that the SWG servers are dead -- but you.  What is the saddest part of al lthis is that you don't get paid by SOE for your efforts.

To invest so much time spinning PR for someone I would have sent a bill a long time ago.

Heh, that says it all really ;)

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Well I have to say that he lost credibility with me when he made this false claim about the new trading card game:

"The loot is mostly deco items, a few new speeders, the pod racer and nothing that actually effects core gameplay. It's all fluff..."

He neglected to mention the two cards that buff combat attributes.  Last time I checked, combat was part of "core gameplay" and combat buffs are generally not regarded as "fluff." 

So, when I read other claims designed to market SWG to others (including those about improving populations), I can't help questioning their accuracy as well.

I gotta say, this statement of his has the same kind of ambiance: "even on the deadest of servers (Kauri) I can find over a hundred toons online just about anytime."  It really is unbelievable.  

I'd rather debate things with someone like Reklaw.  He'll defend the game, but he'll never lie to me.  It's appreciated, and it builds credibility.

 

Pretty sure I've mentioned a few times now that equivalents of these buff cards are available from Mustafar as quest rewards, which share the same buff slots as the new buff cards (so they can't stack together).  So no, the buff cards aren't that big of a deal...

 

 

How exactly does an ingame equivalent change the fact that these TCG buffs affect combat?

I also find it interesting to note that the equilalent buffs are found on Mustafar - a purchased expansion.

I said the buff cards aren't a big deal ;)
 

Yes, Mustafar does require payment...but if you're going to argue that then you must be anti-expansions in general as the nature of expansions generally gives those that have them an advantage of those that don't.  This is the case in the MMO's I know of anyway...

 

I understand your view but you're quoting ArcAngel who is saying that the buffs do have an effect on combat.

So I assume that you agree that these buffs do have an effect to combat?

Well, yeah, obviously they effect combat.  However, with their being equivilent alternatives to them outside of the TCG, there is no combat advantage.
 

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Well I have to say that he lost credibility with me when he made this false claim about the new trading card game:

"The loot is mostly deco items, a few new speeders, the pod racer and nothing that actually effects core gameplay. It's all fluff..."

He neglected to mention the two cards that buff combat attributes.  Last time I checked, combat was part of "core gameplay" and combat buffs are generally not regarded as "fluff." 

So, when I read other claims designed to market SWG to others (including those about improving populations), I can't help questioning their accuracy as well.

I gotta say, this statement of his has the same kind of ambiance: "even on the deadest of servers (Kauri) I can find over a hundred toons online just about anytime."  It really is unbelievable.  

I'd rather debate things with someone like Reklaw.  He'll defend the game, but he'll never lie to me.  It's appreciated, and it builds credibility.

 

Pretty sure I've mentioned a few times now that equivalents of these buff cards are available from Mustafar as quest rewards, which share the same buff slots as the new buff cards (so they can't stack together).  So no, the buff cards aren't that big of a deal...

 

 

How exactly does an ingame equivalent change the fact that these TCG buffs affect combat?

I also find it interesting to note that the equilalent buffs are found on Mustafar - a purchased expansion.

I said the buff cards aren't a big deal ;)
 

Yes, Mustafar does require payment...but if you're going to argue that then you must be anti-expansions in general as the nature of expansions generally gives those that have them an advantage of those that don't.  This is the case in the MMO's I know of anyway...

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by pdxgeek

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by pdxgeek

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by pdxgeek

Originally posted by Gutboy

Yes I see what most vets do make up numbers, I actually went in game on that galaxie and used the tool and counted. I do not lie, really. Only people who do not have hard facts need to make up stat's to "make" their point.

And the tool only counts players who are not on /anon, some people (mainly PvP'ers) still use that thinking the new tool would give away there exact location (it does not). So every result will be low because of that.

 

Does the new grouping tool not allow screenshots to be taken?

If you can login, why not go do the same method Gutboy just described and look for yourself? 

What's the point in posting screenshots when the next claim will likely be they were photoshopped ;)

Gutboy is trying to convince us that the server populations are healthy and even flourishing. I know that if I log on to just about any server it will be a ghost town. I (and others) have posted plenty of screenshots and videos of the game showing no players but we are always told that the players are spread out or hidden in instances. If that's true then it should be easy with the new grouping tool to show hundreds of people on at any given time. Are you saying that's an unreasonable assumption to make?

 

I'm sorry...were you unable to read what Gutboy wrote?  He told you how he came to the number he posted and posted directions on how you can do the same. 

Yep. I read every word. I don't believe him. Neither does anybody else.

Well I have to say that he lost credibility with me when he made this false claim about the new trading card game:

"The loot is mostly deco items, a few new speeders, the pod racer and nothing that actually effects core gameplay. It's all fluff..."

He neglected to mention the two cards that buff combat attributes.  Last time I checked, combat was part of "core gameplay" and combat buffs are generally not regarded as "fluff." 

So, when I read other claims designed to market SWG to others (including those about improving populations), I can't help questioning their accuracy as well.

I gotta say, this statement of his has the same kind of ambiance: "even on the deadest of servers (Kauri) I can find over a hundred toons online just about anytime."  It really is unbelievable.  

I'd rather debate things with someone like Reklaw.  He'll defend the game, but he'll never lie to me.  It's appreciated, and it builds credibility.

 

Pretty sure I've mentioned a few times now that equivalents of these buff cards are available from Mustafar as quest rewards, which share the same buff slots as the new buff cards (so they can't stack together).  So no, the buff cards aren't that big of a deal...

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by talanisen

You know, there are a number of things that really bug me about the SWG TCG.

1) Immersion.  Ya know, back in the days when the Magic CCG was first released, I had to deal with all of my RPG friends playing it to the exclusion of everything else. And talking about it non-stop. I eventually grew to hate CCG's, after spending thousands of dollars on them. The very last thing that I would want to do is have to listen to more crap about a TCG while I'm trying to play a MMO.

2) Having played them back in  the day, I am well aware of how addictive they can be. And that's before you add in the lottery like "game loot" aspect that this game apparently has. I can pretty much guarante that people will be spending a lot of money that they don't have to get... nothing. Heck, at least I still have my (mostly worthless) box of MtG cards. The people paying for these won't even end up with that.

3) No matter how you look at it, there are some very real RMT aspects to this. In a MMO, rare stuff = status. Even if the loot from this game doesn't have an impact on combat, it is some really cool stuff. The sort of stuff that a lot of people *really* want, based on what I see going on in the trade forums. And apparently, many of these loot items are incredibly rare. Which means that no matter how you look at it, most folks are not very likely to get all of it in their "free" booster packs. Which means that people are going to pay for it. And they are going to pay a crap load for it. We're not talking micro-transactions here.... we're talking about SOE esentially selling in-game items for incredibly high prices.

 

It completely dumbfounds me that anyone would try to excuse this sort of behavior in a MMO development team. Personally, I would never even think about playing a MMO that had this sort of thing attached to it. It feels cheap, tawdry, and gimicky.

And it clearly takes the game out of the level playing field of a monthly fee and takes it into the realm of RMT item sales... all while still charging a premium monthly fee!!!!