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All Posts by nethervoid

All Posts by nethervoid

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225 posts found
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by nethervoid
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Yeah, he is putting words into my mouth. Let me be very clear about my position.

1) I like game certain ways (which i am not going to repeat), and I am not shy about it. D3 is the game i enjoyed most in the past few years.

2) I don't think *all* games should be made in the way i like. Very simply, i don't have the time to play so many games anyway. So what do i care if some are made not for me?

3) I do enjoy multiple game types (action combat focus, stealth ...) .. just not boring 20 min boat ride virtual worlds. Heck, how can anyone say i want games to be all the same when i enjoy D3, and WOT, and Dishonored, which are totally different types of games?

4) Some of the virtual world MMOs fans are too narrow minded, and dismiss new and different gameplay style like lobby and arenas. Not all MMOs need a virtual world.

 

I think the point most people would make about 4 is those are not really MMOs. If they have a lobby and you create games of like 10 to 20 from the lobby, it's not an MMO. That's a COD style game. COD is definitely not an MMO.

MMOs have certain traits. None of the games you mentioned I would consider MMOs, and I also play WoT. I'm not saying those games shouldn't exist, but they also are not MMOs. Those games are in different catagories with different attributes than games like UO, EQ, EVE, SWTOR, WoW, etc.

MMO is just a label. Label changes its meaning all the time. Some may think that WOT, Gundam capsule fighter, D3, LOL are not MMOs .. but

a) they are listed, and discuss on this stie, and

b) MMO is a convenient label.

If you like, i can restate 4) as ...

.. Some of the virtual world MMOs fans are too narrow minded, and dismiss new type of hybrid games with some MMO features and other gameplay style like lobby and arenas. Not all MMO like game need a virtual world.

Sorry but this is wrong. Would you call a dubstep song country? Why do you want to say your online games are MMOs? What's in it for you to call them that? Are they not good unless you think they're MMOs? I have cars on my feet. No they're not shoes. I've decided to relabel them as cars. You can quote the dictionary with your closed minded attitude of 'words have a meaning', but in the end they don't! Doll stove sandy snickers Africa silly! (I just said I can redefine words how I please)

All words have a specific definition, else nobody would be able to talk to each other. You can't change something just because you want your game to be in the sexy category. COD is not an MMO. D3 is not an MMO. MMO is MASSIVELY multiplayer online. It's built right in to the accronym for god's sake.

No more debate from me on the topic. I've already fell for the trolling.

Originally posted by nariusseldon
Yeah, he is putting words into my mouth. Let me be very clear about my position.

1) I like game certain ways (which i am not going to repeat), and I am not shy about it. D3 is the game i enjoyed most in the past few years.

2) I don't think *all* games should be made in the way i like. Very simply, i don't have the time to play so many games anyway. So what do i care if some are made not for me?

3) I do enjoy multiple game types (action combat focus, stealth ...) .. just not boring 20 min boat ride virtual worlds. Heck, how can anyone say i want games to be all the same when i enjoy D3, and WOT, and Dishonored, which are totally different types of games?

4) Some of the virtual world MMOs fans are too narrow minded, and dismiss new and different gameplay style like lobby and arenas. Not all MMOs need a virtual world.

 

I think the point most people would make about 4 is those are not really MMOs. If they have a lobby and you create games of like 10 to 20 from the lobby, it's not an MMO. That's a COD style game. COD is definitely not an MMO.

MMOs have certain traits. None of the games you mentioned I would consider MMOs, and I also play WoT. I'm not saying those games shouldn't exist, but they also are not MMOs. Those games are in different catagories with different attributes than games like UO, EQ, EVE, SWTOR, WoW, etc.

Originally posted by Onomas
Originally posted by nethervoid
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by nethervoid

Designing a sandbox is really quite easy. All you have to do is create a blank world and systems where players can create things in the world. Then sit back and watch.

It really is that easy.

That is the problem. Most players can't create anything interesting.

And you sound like "creating a blank world and systems" is easy. Why don't you show us how it is done?

And how do you attract anyone to "a blank world"?

"And you sound like "creating a blank world and systems" is easy. Why don't you show us how it is done?"

lol is this seriously your come back? Right back at you. You can never give an opinion on this board any longer unless you've developed an MMO.

"And how do you attract anyone to "a blank world"?"

The blank world IS the attraction. You get to build cities and dungeons etc. You get to actually have an impact on the world. Build a city. Fight to keep that city safe. Craft items. Have a shop in town. Create a mage tower for training. People love doing that stuff. Look at minecraft. Most searched game on youtube for a long, long time now. Last I checked it was getting 14 million searches per month whereas COD4 was getting about 3 million.

Best part is you don't have to spend a lot of time creating content. You can put all that extra time into creating bad-ass systems for people to build with.

Problem is people are getting less smart and their creativity is suffering. Studies (u can google) have proven this. When growing up we had to use our imagination, go outside and find things to do. Now days everything is hand fed to you, and sit at home on the consoles. There is a huge difference from then til now.

They dont want to create anything, just have it thrown in their laps. They dont want to walk to explore, they want the content to come to them. They dont want to craft an item or pay for it, they want to loot it. and you could go on from there. Why i have always said mmo's today feel like console rpgs of yesterday.

I agree people are getting seriously lazy with all the instant everything now days, but I still think the game could thrive. The real tricky part would be enabling people to do awesome stuff, but not have some super insane grind to get it to work. I think if you have some soft progression in the game for things it can work.

Take travel for example. When you first log in you'll have to walk. Eventually with enough gold or if your character can tame horses you use a horse. Then maybe when you master some travel spells (if you spend time studying magic) you can do some limited teleportation. Maybe at super end game, you could become a lich, and while you have some uber draw backs (would have to make up some) you would have some serious travel powers.

But I think it would be a lot of fun to have a game release an expansion pack that adds no content other than new systems for people to screw around with. Like the lich system would probably be something added in an xpac.

Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by nethervoid

Designing a sandbox is really quite easy. All you have to do is create a blank world and systems where players can create things in the world. Then sit back and watch.

It really is that easy.

That is the problem. Most players can't create anything interesting.

And you sound like "creating a blank world and systems" is easy. Why don't you show us how it is done?

And how do you attract anyone to "a blank world"?

"And you sound like "creating a blank world and systems" is easy. Why don't you show us how it is done?"

lol is this seriously your come back? Right back at you. You can never give an opinion on this board any longer unless you've developed an MMO.

"And how do you attract anyone to "a blank world"?"

The blank world IS the attraction. You get to build cities and dungeons etc. You get to actually have an impact on the world. Build a city. Fight to keep that city safe. Craft items. Have a shop in town. Create a mage tower for training. People love doing that stuff. Look at minecraft. Most searched game on youtube for a long, long time now. Last I checked it was getting 14 million searches per month whereas COD4 was getting about 3 million.

Best part is you don't have to spend a lot of time creating content. You can put all that extra time into creating bad-ass systems for people to build with.

Agree with the OP, but then again I already have a thread explaining why. I got bored in about 2 hours. I think Darkfall is a much better pvp mmo, and I don't really like it that much. At least there are other things to do when you get bored of pvp.

I'm fine with a game being on this site if it's an MMO, because non RPG MMOs didn't really exist when this site was created, but putting games like D3 etc on here is not a good idea IMO. It's basically a sell out to get more traffic. Another way to look at it is false advertising. If you want to cover non-mmos create a non-mmo site.

But as has previously mentioned I don't think they care much about what people on the forums think about what is covered. We probably constitute less than 0.1% of the traffic.

Designing a sandbox is really quite easy. All you have to do is create a blank world and systems where players can create things in the world. Then sit back and watch.

It really is that easy.

For the OP, sandboxes don't have stories, so I guess that's where it ends for this debate. Stories are for single player games.
I think the problem your having is game makers aren't really producing anything new. Why is minecraft so huge? It's different and let's players build whatever they want! If they release minecraft 2, and it basically plays the same, people won't be as into it as the first time.

I think people forget that systems generate tons of content. UO dungeons have been an example here. Let's face it. Nobody thought their dungeons were anything epic. They were pretty dull. The exciting part was how to balance how much loot to grab before you bounced back to bank to deposit it (or risk getting player killed). Or how you could find a treasure map on a creature that took you on a whole other adventure. Or how you could be mining for 2 hours, and then get ganked because you were too slow hitting your recall rune. Heart pumping times man!

Hell even EQ's death system produced more heart pounding action than all of today's MMOs put together, cause the cost of death was so high! A system that made the game more fun.

Game mechanics and systems the players can manipulate make a game have longevity in it's content. 'Story line' content has a very short lifespan in comparison.

In fact with the right systems, players can create unique, new content until you shut the servers down.

Dude Diablo 3's on here. They might as well add all games now IMO.
Originally posted by ignore_me

This is an extension of the article about systems, but I think this needs to be communicated to the developers. EAch new game or sequel to an older MMO comes out with better graphics, but far less meat to the game.

If you make a WoW2, it should not have less classes, no ability to sit down, less areas to explore, etc. IT SHOULD HAVE MORE.

 

Couldn't agree more. I think it's stupid someone even has to say this. lol

Originally posted by BizkitNL

Look, if you had any interest in PS2, you'd know they are far from "done". Development doesn't stop at launch. I'm not going to point you to the posts made up to this day about future plans (Like...Player-bases), you should do your own work.

 

[mod edit]

Not sure if you've been paying attention to the MMO industry over the past 10 years or so, but games get 1 shot to make it or break it. It must be awesome at launch. People are tired of empty promises of 'it will be so awesome later'. Only indie companies get to do that.

Originally posted by ignore_me
Also I think not looting makes engineers with ammo packs more relevant.

Ah I see what you mean. Maybe they could have gone one further an allowed engies to set up like forward supply stations or something. But I think looting really still needs to be in game. It makes too much sense not to have.

Originally posted by Ikeda

Wait wait wait,

You're DISAPPOINTED in the game because they didn't do things YOU think they should have done?  Why is that PS2's fault and not your own misconceptions about what it is?

The loot thing, I can understand.  You don't have to kill yourself.  Hack a terminal for a loadout, run around with an engineer, there's TON's of options there but killing yourself was YOUR choice.

Sequels don't have to build on the first.  Look at GW2.  Again, your misconception.

And WTF are you talking about with "personal money system" you mean like Commendations?  (used for buying upgrades, getting better gear, etc) Or the 3 different "resources" you gain so you can buy weapons/upgrades/tanks/planes/etc that you EARN via capturing control points?  Hell, they even put in SC so you can buy gear with real money if you don't wanna play for it.  What kind of MONEY are you looking for then?

I'm sorry your disappointed but I can't see any of these faults being more than you going into a game NOT knowing what you were getting into.

You seem to want a sandbox.  And at NO POINT was PS2 ever listed as such.

No I'm dissapointed in the game because it doesn't add anything PS1 didn't do just as good or better. I was expecting more. They gave me less.

Originally posted by ignore_me

While I agree with much of what you said, I still have loads of fun playing this game. PS1 was more complex, and added things over time that made it even more rich. I am hoping that PS2 will be the same way.

As for "building" on the original, I can't think of any sequels that have actually done this. Each new game that comes out looks better than the last, but is more dumbed down and featureless than its predecessor. This is not unique to PS2.

I would agree I think for MMOs. I've never played an MMO sequel. I just assume a sequel will be adding new features to at least the core features of the 1st version. I guess because all other games but MMOs do this? Sim City. Civilization. Warcraft. Starcraft. Etc etc.

TLDR: PS2 is basically PS1 with new graphics... except not as good as PS1. Wow great job SOE.

What I don't get is why PS2 is so similar to PS1? And not only is it insanely similar, PS2 actually removes some of the cool features of PS1 like being able to loot enemy packs. Now if you're on a streak and you run out of ammo you just suicide to get more because there's no way to get more ammo short of hacking a console? That makes no sense. And why did they take away the inventory? I had a great time managing my inventory. I could build a load out that was completely different that the guy next to me. Let's take that out. It's too confusing. lol Too confusing?? WTF? Well yeah nether the chimps in our lab couldn't figure it out, so we removed it.

They should have added more things to do in Planetside 2. I was kind of expecting it. I mean it's a sequel right? It needs to BUILD on the first version. Like instead of static bases all over that nobody gives a damn about, maybe allow us to get resources with machines or something and build our own bases. Or at least allow outfits to 'own' a base and get some kind of profits from holding it. Or maybe make weapons in the game not infinite, so we need bases to manufacture them. Basically take PS1 to the next level. Make it a real sandbox. In it's current state it's just a giant Battlefield 3.

Or even allowing us to have some kind of money system, so people don't just suicide rush out there. And I'm not talking about the lame system they have now where you get some kind of resources for your side holding specific parts of the map. Nobody gives a crap about that, and secondly it's not personalized enough. If you had some kind of personal money system, you could have people scavenging ammo and guns from the enemies they kill. Maybe you could then sell them to some guy who has a gun exchange shop set up. Also you could maybe go gather some resources to make more cash, which would then at least give you something to fight over that actually matters.

PS2 is a real dissapointment. Since they made the same game basically, why didn't they just pull out BFRs and give PS1 some new graphics? It would actually be a better game since we'd have inventory back and the ability to loot bodies.

Edit: Forgot to mention, but hope it's obvious, I played PS1 for about a year when it launched. Got to BR 18 or something with 3000 kills. I quit when BFRs came out.

I checked it out. It doesn't seem to have anything other games don't already have. Choose class -> Chop up mobs -> Chop up mobs... nothing else to do. We already have 20000 games that play exactly like this.

Edit: Wait sorry you can have guild keeps and do seiges on other people's keeps. ... Again there are lots of other games that do this.

Maybe they should do something different like only allow x amount of coin to be stored in banks, and then afterwards you need to build a dungeon to protect your loot. That would create TONS of content!

Well since PS2 is basically PS1 reskinned, yes I grew tired of it 10 years ago.
It's funny how a game like UO can be so friggin awesome and published by a pretty small company and budget, but new MMOs can't seem to grasp what made that game a blast. It's only been 15 years guys. You figured it out yet?
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