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All Posts by nethervoid

All Posts by nethervoid

9 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last
178 posts found

Nice article. I would say though that there are far greater challenges ahead for developers as far as guilds are concerned. IMO there is just not enough for guilds to do to warrant a guild in the first place. In addition to raiding it would be nice to see more guild cities etc in MMOs. Guild shops where the best stuff could be found at the vendor. Guilds farm crafting materials from raids and group dungeons, guild crafters craft them up, guild puts them on internal guild vendors and external to sell to the public.

Guilds need more to do together in games.

Originally posted by Horusra
If the game is quality then the TES crowd will not matter that much.  If the game is not...well the game will tank like it should then.


Why don't they just have PvE and PvP servers with open world PvP? Worked in WoW.

Originally posted by Caldrin

don't get worked up about new MMORPGs you will just get upset when they are released.


This is the kind of wisdom you get after having played MMOs for a billion years like us. lol Also said it all inside a tweet. Another bonus.

Originally posted by Burntvet
To the OP: The same thing that has happened to deep crafting, player inter-dependency, meaningful social tools, player based economy, non-instanced housing, death penalties, and on and on. They are either "too hard" for developers to do, or too complex for the newer generation of MMO players to want.

To make your statement a little more accurate change the highlighted text to "not what the COD market the suits brought over to MMOs want". All the non-MMOers that have come over from other genres are what have really mucked things up.

You shouldn't make definitions if you don't know what you're talking about. 10 players in a match is not massively. If you're just considering total numbers online playing a game every online game would be an MMO.

Neverwinter should be on this list. Boring as hell. Too easy. Bland. If it were any more minimalist it would be minesweeper.
Even games that are still getting updates like Lotro feel kind of like going back into the past, and I'm actually just now starting that game because I can't find a new MMO worth playing. But still it feels like going into a game coming to it's winter season.
Yeah I feel this exact same way too. I'd still play UO on a free server, but why. All my stuff will just go up in smoke once I don't log in for a week or two. Also EQ... used to reup to that game and hang out in Mistmoore just me and the wind talking about the gold old days. Vanguard is kind of the same for me. I actually built a wiki with a dungeon list for it and did some dungeon walkthroughs there with maps. It's an awesome game, but had such a bad launch it missed the window. Funny thing is newer MMOs are so hollow Vanguard is actually better than say Neverwinter. lol
Originally posted by mrrshann618

Long time GM, sorry have to disagree that the story is "player driven".

Yes players can help advance a story, but in general, players are WANTING to be lead around and have options of situations to do. I played a post-apoc Rifts(palladium) style game where I had planned out different things in the area and created a "sandbox" environment where the players could do anything, go anywhere and I had at least something planned  so that it would give me time to adjust to my players to continue the story from there


You know what they did? they asked the NPC's around town what there is to do, what news from the north, ect...

So I call BS on "player driven story"

In a MMO, text based is fine. MMORPG Story, and lots of it. Let me actually interact with my "quest givers".

MMO = grind to endgame and sit around bored as sin because there is "nothing to do"

MMORPG = Explore, take you time, enjoy the cut scenes, listen to the performances

Most players want a MMORPG, but play them all like a MMO. In all it is up to the players to play the game "right" You do not go into a game like SWTOR and spacebar through the scenes, even on your 3rd time through. You also do not hit Delete to reset the cut scene, you suffer the RP consequences. SWTOR  and TSW attempt to be MMORPGs, but there are to many people who will play them "wrong" and blow through content.

So what you're saying is in your story driven 5 person table top game your players wanted story. That's not really the same thing as an MMO sandbox.

If you give players a way to change the landscape (no not 1 player - Guilds of players) then they will make the story. All you have to do is design awesome tools for them to use. You can still put in npcs to kill. I mean monsters and crap are going to be around your world. Put in some ancient long lost dungeons and junk. But also allow very powerful players / guilds to create their own dungeons to protect their loot. Then the players can try to ransack it. Or steal the big artifact to kill the guild master of 'the evil guild!'.

Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by nethervoid
Personally I think the story in MMOs should come from what players do, not be driven by NPCs. Single player games are much better at this than MMOs, and when MMOs sink money into the story they often leave out or majorly skimp on the MMO aspects of the game.

That is no reason why MMO should have some too. John Grisham is much better at writing novels than most other novelists. Do you stop reading others just because of that? Deus Ex is a much better RPG than most other RPGs. Do you stop playing other RPGs just because of that?

In fact, some MMOs are pretty good at SP stories, like TSW or STO. I can just play them as SP games.


It is exactly the reason MMOs should derive story from the players. That's what an MMO is traditionally.

Basically my reason for all these posts that you keep replying to is I figured out why none of the new 'mmorpgs' appeal to me, and it's because they no longer have any of the coolest mmo features from the original set of MMOs. If I wanted to play story games and lobby games, I'd play story and lobby games.

SWTOR failed because it was a story game, and the story ran out. What's there to do after that? Nothing.

Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by nethervoid

Because when MMOs move toward lobby games MMOs disapear. Then all we have left are lobby games. The two are merging but the lobby game is not picking up any traditional MMO elements.

Who is to blame? Mainly the industry for doing a money grab with the larger COD market. And now secondly the people who have come from lobby games want to further dilute MMOs to be more like lobbies.

"blame"? You blame companies to fill a demand? You blame people playing games the way they want? They are doing exactly what they are supposed to in a free market.

Why would lobby games be picking up traditional MMO elements? Do these elements make the game more fun for most of the players?

I don't think there is anything to blame here. No one says traditional MMO needs to survive in the market place. It is survival of the financially fittest.



I guess my question to you would then be why are you on a site dedicated to MMOs if you like lobby games? Is there no

Vanguard was / is a really awesome game. The world is truly immense, and my favorite part is some dungeons are really unknown to most people. They're way off the beaten path, and because there are far more dungeons than are needed for the 'level grind' you can almost always find a new one you haven't been to.

I spent a lot of time tabulating a giant list of all the dungeons in the game, and there are something like 50 in total. Check that list out here if you're interested. The list also shows players exactly where to find the dungeon.

... You know I might actually play this game again it's so good compared to newer games like Neverwinter. lol

Maybe this is a fake thread so to speak.
Personally I think the story in MMOs should come from what players do, not be driven by NPCs. Single player games are much better at this than MMOs, and when MMOs sink money into the story they often leave out or majorly skimp on the MMO aspects of the game.
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by nethervoid
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by nethervoid

To be honest MMOs are gradually heading toward a COD style game, which means they're fusing with lobby games. Which means they're basically going to become a thing of the past if this keeps up.

Hell Neverwinter has more in common with D3 than it does UO, SWG, or EVE.

Yeah .. and i would count that as a positive.

How is this a positive? You want all MMOs to disappear? MMOs used to be about epic achievements in a world you could actually impact and see a physical affect on. If you don't like that then don't play them.

No. I want new fun games. D3 is a fun game to me. NWO is also fun .... particularly because of the ARPG elements. So of course it is a positive.

And how is one game going the direction of D3 means that MMO is disappearing?

Oh, of course i don't play games i don't like. MMOs are about queuing up dungeons, and raids, and arenas now. Did you get the memo?


Because when MMOs move toward lobby games MMOs disapear. Then all we have left are lobby games. The two are merging but the lobby game is not picking up any traditional MMO elements.

Who is to blame? Mainly the industry for doing a money grab with the larger COD market. And now secondly the people who have come from lobby games want to further dilute MMOs to be more like lobbies.

Originally posted by psiic
Originally posted by Deznts
Do you have sources that you can provide us to back up the statistics you are claiming to be fact?


Well took my first statistic from the Entertainment Software Association fact sheet 2012.


The second purchasing statistic I gleaned from the US consumer behavior statistics consumer research index, the 2012 census consumer expenditures abstract statistics, and from a reading by on consumer indexes 2011.


The numbers are actually a little higher than what I posted in actuality, the ESA 2013 now states female gamers make up over 40% of the total gamer market.

I assume this includes crap like farmville and other facebook games. If you took out facebook games it would probably be about 5%.

Also what games do not have female avatars? Of MMOs I can't remember a single 1 that does not have a female avatar in it. Most of the reason is because many males prefer female avatars. lol

Man you're lucky. I'm having a hard time finding an MMO I actually want to play at all. Most of the new ones are too shallow, and the old ones are.. old. I've pretty much played the hell out of those. lol
Originally posted by Torik
Originally posted by Greyface

Generally, PvPers don't want to be forced to raid, and Raiders don't want to be forced to PvP.   A big problem with many MMOs is that PvP and PvE often require different character builds, different gear, and different skill-sets.  It's lazy design but it's also the norm.  For your hypothetical game to work, it would have to be built from the ground up with the idea of PvP/PvE having identical mechanics -- no special stats for PvP gear, no crowd control abilities that only work on monsters, no "diminishing returns," no taunts or threat mechanics of any kind.

Beyond that, any game with full loot PvP immediately scares away a huge portion of potential players.  MMOs have largely replaced the long levelling curves of yesteryear with gear progression.  Allowing a player to be stripped of all their gear is the equivalent of allowing someone to steal their last 10 levels.  No one is going to put up with that. 

The way to make full loot tolerable is if you downplay the importance of gear.   The only way I've seen that accomplished is to have a robust crafting system where the best gear is player-made and therefore quickly replaceable.  The problem with that is takes gear-as-progression off the table, which means that you need something more open-ended than a fixed set of levels. You basically have to make it so that a character is never maxed out.

So EVE.  The game you want is EVE.


Fusing non-conensual PvP and PvE will never work because PvP will always dominate.  While I really like the concept of EVE I could never see any point in the PvP and thus hated that PvP made PVE its bitch in that game.  In a full loot PvP game the PvPers will just leech off the work of the PvEers and the PvEers will hate them for it. 

Most of the PVP in EVE is to fight over the control of crafting resources. It actually is one of the best PVP games in regard to 'some reason to fight'.

Originally posted by exdeathbr

How to really mix it:

1-MMorpg game has 2 teams, 2races, 2 countries................ 

2-Those countries, races. teams.... are at war

2.1-ONLY 2 countries, teams,... at war and etc.., but can be like world war 2 were countries are merged at 2 sides.

3-One team is the player team and you can only be of this team, the other is the npc teams, they act like players with all the limitations they have, are arent the usual zombie like npc of mmorpgs

4-You have to battle against the enemy like you do with players, but they are AI.

Why would this be a better system than just making the AI actual players?

Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by nethervoid

To be honest MMOs are gradually heading toward a COD style game, which means they're fusing with lobby games. Which means they're basically going to become a thing of the past if this keeps up.

Hell Neverwinter has more in common with D3 than it does UO, SWG, or EVE.

Yeah .. and i would count that as a positive.

How is this a positive? You want all MMOs to disappear? MMOs used to be about epic achievements in a world you could actually impact and see a physical affect on. If you don't like that then don't play them.

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