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All Posts by nethervoid

All Posts by nethervoid

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178 posts found
Originally posted by Dahkoht

Can someone point me to a link that says EQ Next is confirmed or coming to the PS4 ?

I see nothing about that from Sony at all.

I could see DC and PS2 , but not EQ Next.

It's leaked info.

Welp MMORPG has confirmed it. PS2 and EQNext will be on the PS4.

Originally posted by steelwind
What doesn't make sense to me is that EQN is supposed to be a sandbox title. I just don't see the average console player interested in a sandbox MMO. I could understand if it was a themepark but I really don't think the console crowd is the right audience for a sandbox MMO.

Agree. I think what we think in our heads when we hear them say 'sandbox' and what they're making as 'sandbox' are two totally different things. lol This is like a bait and switch.

Originally posted by lizardbones


Originally posted by maplestone

Originally posted by nethervoid Global chat and global market has ruined a lot of the player interaction in modern MMOs. The price of convenience I guess. lol
The problem was that players started setting up 3rd party IM clients, chat channels and auction sites that were creating those features anyway.  The drive for efficiency was breaking the original model no matter what devs did.

This would make me wonder how great the original models were in the first place. If enough people were bypassing the model that the developers felt the need to implement the bypasses into the games, then the original models don't seem to have been that good to begin with. Not for a large number of people anyway.


What you guys are not reading in my post is that you can only set those up with people you know in the game. If you want to meet new people or buy something etc, you had to go to the bank. It was a great way to get people talking together. If people want to IM out of the game sweet, but adding in the global chat was a real break in immersion and socializing in the game.

*Edit - And by socializing I mean socializing with people you don't already know.

Originally posted by Sciva
Originally posted by nethervoid
If EQNext is going to be on PS4, I'm now 99% sure it will be a game I won't want to play. They're going to have to cater to the desires of FPS players. Great. More instant gratification.

Uh, i'm pretty sure they would shoot themselves in the foot if they marketed an online RPG for FPS players (who would be playing an FPS on the PC or 360 instead). Just because somthing can use a controller doesn't create lesser gameplay.

If history has anything to say, usually console games have lesser gameplay than PC games.

If EQNext is going to be on PS4, I'm now 99% sure it will be a game I won't want to play. They're going to have to cater to the desires of FPS players. Great. More instant gratification.
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by ReallyNow10
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by ReallyNow10
Originally posted by jpnz
Wonder what's stopping people from socializing in an mmo nowadays? Do you get a debuff or something?
Why blame something when it didn't cause it in the first place?

People tend to follow a path of least resistance in gaming, whether it in enjoyable or not; they strive for the end goal.  If you can solo or re-run an instance for the zillionth time in group finder, there is little or no need to talk, and folks often will not.

Creating an in-game need for interaction will foster community.  Without it, you have a bunch of solo gamers in their own little worlds.

What was the in-game need for the socializing in UO?

Is the problem really that we don't have enough stuck elevator moments or is it that most MMOs now are combat-only experiences where the level disparity is such that stopping to talk just puts you that much further behind the rest of your team?

I think that is true, you need a few "stuck elevator" moments or "help me fix my flat tire" or "escort me through this dangerous area" moments to encourage strangers to parley.

Now, didn't play too much U.O., but have heard from others it was a fantastic gaming experience. I suppose, because U.O. had the PVP going on, that players were encouraged to team up or band together for mutual protection, hence talking was encouraged.

PVP had little to do with the majority of socializing, player events, roleplaying, and player venues in that game. I know that interaction without duress, penalty or punishment is foreign to EQers, but in UO, Puzzle Pirates, AC and most of the other pre-WOW MMOs we hung out together because we wanted to, not because some terrible thing would happen if we didn't. 


Believe it or not most of the socializing and meeting at the Britain bank in UO to trade, meet people, set off for dungeons etc was because there was no global chat in that game. If you wanted to talk to people who you couldn't IM, you had to go to the bank of a major city and mingle. People would hawk their wares there etc. It was really awesome.

Global chat and global market has ruined a lot of the player interaction in modern MMOs. The price of convenience I guess. lol

I haven't logged into an MMO every night since the launch of SWTOR. Currently super casually playing LOTRO, but it's pretty boring. Was thinking about firing up EVE or UO again...

For the future I think at this point only EQNext is something I'd consider, depending on it's features, which TBH I can almost guarantee will be a huge let down. It seems there's a giant disconnect currently between game creators and game consumers. Everything releasing lately is just garbage right out of the gate. Wildstar could be fun for a month or two. TESO is going to suck balls. Beautiful world filled with the same features we have seen for the past 5 years at least.

Originally posted by Raph

As a big "simulated world" guy, my take is that there's still quite a viable market for it, but not at the kinds of insane budget levels that MMOs have reached. It would essentially be an MMO that catered towards the MMO aficionado, rather than the more casual player, and it would be premised on the notion that the game would be unpredictable.

That means that it would have to be built for way less money than MMORPGs tend to cost today, and you the players would have to be accepting of a way lower graphical and content bar than what you are currently used to (since that is what the budget buys you).

I am unsure that you (the generic you, the group of all MMO players) is actually willing to make that compromise right now. Like, some have suggested that I Kickstarter a spiritual sequel to UO and SWG. But to do those to today's standards would involve raising tens of millions of dollars.

Sim-based worlds are cheaper to make than content-heavy sandboxes, I think, by quite a lot. But they also usually call for custom graphics and server engines, because the stuff that is out there is entirely based around the idea of static data. So there's a sizable barrier to entry right off the bat.


Raph I think if you took the minecraft concept and morphed it into an MMO you'd have a rather huge potential market. I don't know a lot about other industries, but as far as youtube minecraft videos have the lions share of searches per month. Last I checked minecraft was searched 16 million times per month while COD was only searched 7 million (COD being I think the runner up on that list).

Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by -Zeno-
Darkfall Unholy Wars is the most original idea of a MMO on the market right now outside of EVE Online.

And what does DF:UW do that UO didn't do better 12+ years ago?

Respecs. (Not that DF can claim credit for it, but it is definitely a 'new thing' that first took place between UO in 1997 and today.) Flying mounts, vehicles, siege engines.

If you think about it, it is not difficult to come up with another 40 examples. Some enormous big systems, and some teeny tiny ones.

If you think about it, DF and UO are almost nothing alike. DF is more like Shadowbane than anything else I've seen.

Original? An MMO where the women with armor on actually have all their skin covered. lol

For real.. leaching off the idea from above, a world like EVE, but that actually would take a long time to fully colonize and explore. Something so large it should never be fully colonized.

I've recently become addicted to Game Dev Tycoon. Stupid little game developer simulator, but for some reason fun. lol

I've added it to my lets play channel:

- I was waiting for Neverwinter, but that turned out to be a major waste of time. Instant travel, etc, etc. lol

- I hope ESO will be awesome, but it looks a lot like a wow clone, so I'll either buy it knowing I'll only play for a couple months or just skip it altogether

- Really hoping EQNext is actually a FUN sandbox. With what I've seen being devs talking about how you can make your own emotes (who really fking cares about emotes!?) I'm not holding my breath that it will be something I actually want to play.

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Immersion and what causes it are completely subjective.

To you removing those hassles might decrease immersion, to others it doesn't.

Immersion is also something that has subjective value.  Some people say it is very important to their game, some people say they could care less about it and just want a fun game to play.

To a dev it's a simple question without a simple answer:  Will the addition or removal of said feature cause people to stay or leave.  And/or will the addition of said feature cause enough people to play to justify the cost of making it. 

For me - those features mentioned: food/ammo don't add to immersion at all, they detract from my enjoyment of whatever aspects of the game I'm doing.  Oops I can't fight anymore cause I'm out of arrows, need to lug myself back to town and get some, or build some here, same with food.  More annoyance than help.

To me immersion comes from doing lots of useful and engaging activities. 

Funny thing is those two things food and ammo can be very fun if the lack of them puts you in weird situations and allows you to barely make it out alive. Some of the best memories in games come from situations where you run out of something mundane like food.

I agree with others above. Mundane 'immersion' items are only as good as the systems designed around them. If the support for these items is limited or non-existant, the items become a real hassle. If they're supported heavily as is Minecraft's food, then it can add a lot to the game.

Originally posted by krage
Originally posted by TheScavenger

What about do it like singleplayer games do then. Let the player choose the difficulty.


All singleplayer games have various versions of "easy, normal, hard" and some even offer permadeath if you die.


What if the player can choose their own difficulty. Now choosing that in an online game seems complicated, so what about having servers dedicated to the different difficulty levels. Easy servers would be rewarding losing (schools do this like mentioned (and if they didn't I'd have failed highschool....but thats a different topic) and easy servers you can solo most/everything...where as, normal is how most MMOs are now. Hard would be more for the hardcore players, the ones who want to group 100% of the time and have a challenge.


I think this would be a good medium. So, for those who want a very casual, easy experience...they can choose the easy servers. If someone wants a hard experience where it is really tedious and very hard to level or do anything...they can choose that as well. Or somewhere in the middle of "normal" difficulty servers.

I think it can be done using a difficulty system in the form of death count. You set the difficulty to increase your XP and rewards. As long as the life system is not tied in any way to a cash shop it can work...if not this will definitely be Pay2Win

Easy = Regular MMO death system, no true penalty other than corpse run and armor repair. Meant for casual play really, and you get base xp gain, and standard loot drops

Standard = Set amount of lives that can be toggled on and off when out of combat, your counter will rarely increase unless you accomplish fairly epic feats for 1up lol. Your XP and Reward

Hardcore = You have one life when toggled on, permadeath style, perhaps with a stat boost or durability to give you a more safe chance. Increases your XP rate and reward drops a massive amount, possibly opens up a tier of special and truely legendary Hardcore only enable quest chains that are challenging.


hmmm now I want to play ^ this game >.< lol I love risk vs reward!

Agree. The problem is the people playing easy will want the same rewards as the people playing hard. You know, because we all deserve the same amount of loot for unequal skill and effort. lol

I'm a little under whelmed. It's good stuff, but I would really love to see them flesh out other aspects of the game like the PvE, which is pretty boring. Sure keep making PvP as fun as possible, but maybe could you also make all the aspects of your game more fun? =( I want to like EVE, but I don't want to PvP all the time. But then when I'm not I just get bored because the non-PvP pieces of the game are so dull. If they spiced those areas up a bit I would stay subscribed.
Originally posted by Myrdynn
Originally posted by nethervoid
Just to let people know Eldevin is almost nothing like Ultima Online. It's more like wow. Quests, leveling, no world pvp, when you die you don't drop your gear, pvp in battlegrounds, it's item centric, etc...

was referring more so to the top down view, and the sandbox feel of it

it feels so far from WOW, not one thing even feels remotely close....oh theres quests its WOW

If you look at all the reasons I stated you'll see it's basically nothing like UO except it has a top down view. D3 also has a top down view. Now I don't mean today's UO; I mean 1997's UO. Today's UO has been wowified for some time.

Well Sony just got carte blanche. They better capitalize on it instead of being stupid suits like they have been since EQ1. If they say it's a sandbox it better be a friggin sandbox. Being able to make your own emotes doesn't make a sandbox. Being able to make your own quests for others to consume doesn't make it a sandbox.

I really want EQN to be the next generation of MMOs, but since Sony is driving it I don't have high or even medium hopes TBH.

Originally posted by TheScavenger

The first games I've played that reward you for dying are FPS games, like Call of Duty I think was first. Still play every CoD that comes out, and it really does it properly. After CoD, many FPS games (at least all the good ones) still give you points, money or whatever even if you die. After a match ends, you get quite a bit of points even if your team loses. This really rewards the player to keep playing, not rage quit if his team is losing.


Now how does that relate to MMOs?

It doesn't.

MMOs were successful in the US until they all started copying the same damn game over and over. Any idiot can see this. The fact "top suits" in the industry don't understand this is disgusting.
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by kakasaki
Originally posted by Gorwe
Maybe this is important?

I am not looking to build my character in gear grinding way. I am looking to build him through the experiences he is going through, choices that he will make and sides he will choose.

THAT is character building to me. Not the "you don't have purples-SORRY!". And yes, coexist, it definitely shouldn't take 2-3 days of playing. No matter if it's the story or the grind, your character shouldn't be built(fully) in such a short time period.

And no icewhite, I am the last person to join teh d00m and gl0Om Bandwagen. If I detect such dislikes with what I am playing, I simply move on. Want not, waste not eh?

Has there ever been an MMO that has truly done this???

Sounds like he's aiming at "skill-based", but drifting into "decisions that actually affect my development".

General answer is: MMOs aren't good at consequences. Players don't deal well with them.

Arguably, the last time it existed in MMOSpace was pre-Respecs.

Some MMOs do this well, but the consequence of action is in picking the wrong player faction or pissing off the wrong player/guild. Because MMOs shouldn't really be about how the AI treats you when you make a decision; but about how players treat you when you make a decision.

If they would just let the players control and be the story this would automatically fix itself. The big problem is players don't really want consequences. I mean look at death penalties now. lol

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