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All Posts by baguette

All Posts by baguette

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32 posts found
Originally posted by Kiyoris

I don't think they will change it, it would be a massive undertaking.

-they would need to fire the art director, I'm not sure they are willing to do that, although they should

-they would not only have to redesign the characters, but also the world, you can't put realistic characters in a cartoon world

-they would need to redo all the animations

etc

GW2 didn't fire the art director. It is a team of artists who can work in different styles with the proper given direction. As the above poster said, changing textures would add realism without detracting from performance. In fact, I think GW2's art director is still the same person. (Gail Gray or something?)

 

The animations are cartoony now too? How so? 

As I stated in my original post, they can redo the art if needed at this point. We are far, far, far away from launch. You can even redo graphics after launch (EQ velious, EQ2 asian models).

The graphics are in line with the graphics presented in EQ1 and EQ2. Neither of those games presented a hyper-realistic or even realistic world. To expect a sudden change to realism when the previous two art styles were high fantasy is strange to me.

 

I guess some people think anything that is not absolutely photorealistic is cartoony, even though this would place VanGogh and Monet in the same boat with the Powder Puff girls.

Originally posted by diabel
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by diabel
Originally posted by ZaiDenTsu

the art styke is fantastic for year 2006 or max 2008 but not for 2014 sry :(

 

Developers if do this kind of graphic and think they will have an AAA mmo they are wrong 

 

WOW was the only one with this cartoony graphic that have a big success ,but this is an old game ,new AAA mmos should look more real 

List a financially succesful MMORPG with realistic graphics, smooth animation and reactive gameplay.

TSW, LoTRo, AoC. :)

Is it me or was LOTR not realistic looking? Slightly styled? AoC don't think it counts as a successful game or does it? TSW has realistic graphics? I though they were horror/gothic styled?

 

I agree - 

LoTRO can hardly be called realistic.

LOTRO: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-otlxByChNJk/TdC75K94aqI/AAAAAAAAADs/Ptt3gmeWvbA/s1600/LotRO_BreeLand.jpg

AoC is very very realistic, but bled red for years till it finally went F2P and still can't be called a huge success.

 EQ1 and EQ2 were not realistic. I am unsure why realism = everquest in many people's minds, I didn't find it to be realistic in the modeling at all. 

EQ2: http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad147/Eq2Fin2010/cchumanfemjpg.jpg

TSW is a different genre, not fantasy-based. And again, fairly "cartoony" - the only difference being really is more detail to the eyes and alot more shading. That could very likely be achieved in character creation on EQN - we just don't know at this point if the model we saw was representative or an example.

TSW: http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/attachments/gaming/30598d1340507611-secret-world-first-impressions-untitled-1.jpg

Consider in Guild wars 2 that the player reaction to the proposed art design on the Sylvari was extremely negative, and the race was radically re-designed prior to launch. It set the game launch back, but what they came up with was wholly unique and completely different than the original, already created, player models including how the armor interacts with the skin tones and bioluminescence of the Sylvari. In fact, the look of the Sylvari is probably my favorite of all races I've ever played in any MMO - simply because of the amount of detail put in is so incredible and actually changes based on if it is night or day and interacts with the racial armor in unique ways. 

http://huntersinsight.com/2011/08/08/sylvari-redesign-win/

If Arenanet can do this, certainly SoE with it's deep pockets can add some changes which would create a more realistic feel without heavily impacting performance.

It wouldn't set them back too much to add some realism to the current models, keeping the expressiveness, which is based on the wire frame of the model and has nothing to do with the so-called cartoony feel of the eyes, nose and mouth. They need to add more depth to the eyes, nose, and mouth. Crinkling around the eyes would be a very simple and effective way to make the smile actually look more realistic and humanize the model. Adding texture to the lips when they purse would also make it look more realistic, and wouldn't take heavy commitment on  art assets. There are lots of tricks they can use. 

The Charr I mean Kerrans need some texture in the fur, too. I am sure the Kerrans could have a more cat-like look when the mane is removed and if you can stretch out and flatten the cheekbones and nose. 

But before you get out the torches and pitchforks, please consider there is very likely going to be character creation in the game, where you can make your character have smaller eyes and smaller lips - which would immediately tone down the so-called cartoony feel of the character.

However, I feel alot of the people protesting the art design and calling it "cartoony like wow" or "nothing like EQ" have forgotten how cartoony and silly EQ2 and Wow's graphics really are :p EQ2 was super duper cartoony, hair looks like it is made of play-doh. Females all have great big dough blobs for faces with eyes that have no depth. The asian versions all looked basically the same as each other. 

These are all female human faces from the compared games.

EQ2:

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad147/Eq2Fin2010/cchumanfemjpg.jpg

EQnext:

http://i.imgur.com/c1Zi1F9.jpg

WoW

http://www.scrollsoflore.com/gallery/albums/wow_renders/Human-Female-Faces.jpg

maybe more needs to be made in the article about how the pictures are "before" and "after"? Cause i wonder if the top commenter read all the way down..


Originally posted by Dream_Chaser

So many broken minds...

i guess the idea of the thread kind of missed the mark with many. Even romantor, amazingly, who wholly misunderstood. Wow. Well, the idea was to tie a theory to the visuals to fill in a missing gap in the lore. Yes, they were based off of human physiology. Well duh, I didn't feel the need to embody Captain Obvious there too much because of course they are, that's the lore and the end result. My idea was to try and get into why, exactly, the Pale Tree chose the exact physical configuration that it did.

Why come up with theories? Because it's creative. Good god, gamers these days make me want to weep. You theorycraft over numbers all day long and a little bit of creative writing throws you that much. It's depressing, really. Apparently the audience that I thought would be ready for a bit of a creative exercise just wasn't. So... as i pointed out, so many broken minds.

*facepalms.*

And yes, it's fantasy, but that's what makes theorising so much fun! Haven't you seen prior threads where I've tried to figure out how charr technology works? This is no different than that. i'm just trying to fill in the gaps with a little imagination. Yes, it's fantasy, but for the love of fantasy, realise that that implies creativity, imagination, and wonder. If you're sorely lacking in all three of those then perhaps fantasy isn't the genre for you.

Fantasy doesn't imply a historical setting, men with swords and whatnot, as I have explained many times in the past. It implies the fantastic. The amazing. The incredible. That which cannot fit into our reality because it's fantasy. But that doesn't mean that we can't try and figure out why things are, or how they came to be the way they are, or indeed, how they work. Because that sort of attitude just leads to people bitching about charr clockpunk without expending a single thought as to how it might work instead of just whining relentlessly.

Yes, it's fantasy.

Apparently my expectations of my audience were set far too high. I'm actually disappointed.

lol sorry to disappoint you by imagining them as not having mammaries but actually having buds instead. i guess i was going out on too much of a limb by not anthropomorphising them as much as you were, so i didnt see the need to logic away a frankensteininan human-plant hybrid.

 

every time i look at trees, i see faces in the gnarly bark swirls - especially oaks. so for me, it isnt too much of a stretch to imagine legs as roots and arms and branches, breasts/hips as buds or bowls.

 

maybe next time explain your rules to us a bit more clearly so we can play your game more effectively, no?

huh. here i thought they were buds.

boobs? who knew?

4095!

Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by Herodes

What will the male sylvari names be like?

Cactus Jack? Woody Allen? Clint Eastwood?

Dick Smallwood, George Bush...

there was a ranger in EQ1 named hardwood everymorning. i pretended not to notice his name as a guide many many times, just because sometimes clever naughtiness must be rewarded. 

i say.. so what? you already could do this in everquest and vanguard with their bazaar servers and on any server in vanguard.

 

i once paid for 3 months of vanguard game time by leveling up a fast leveling class and selling it for $47 when it got to level 30. 

if i had the patience and time i wouldve sold boats too.

it didnt break those games, it wont break diablo 3.

you can buff and support your team using a water build elementalist (aoe heal over time spells), an engineer (stim packs they can run through for heals). i am sure there are other heal-other-spells but we dont know them yet.

 

you can also divert damage (like an eq2 shaman, gw1 protection monk, etc) by casting buffs - defender class, ranger with a horn, warrior with proper blocking.

you can even do a little of both - tank as an earth elementalist using wards to soak up damage and shift focus to water elementalist to do group heals.

and i am sure i dont know all the proper examples to put in here.

but if you are looking for 3 buttons that do a fast heal, a long cast big heal and a heal over time, this wont be the game for you.

chalk in another vote for vanguard. too bad sony doesnt really ever listen to the player base.. ever.

Originally posted by Kalfer
Originally posted by labryinth

Ok so this is a question to everyone who started with the now 'oldschool' MMORPGs like EQ and Ultima etc.etc, not WoW or Guild Wars, but just 1990-2003.

 

A lot of people really hate what the MMO market is now, but I was wondering if everyone who played the older MMOs actually felt exactly the same way when WoW and GW and all those types of games came out?

 

Did you all think 'WoW is way too casual, same with GW and EQ2' compared to EQ1 etc in 2004 and whenever GW came out?

 

Or do the oldschool and vanilla WoW, GW etc. players all agree that back in 2004 and downwards was collectively when MMOs were the best? Or do you think only EQ and Ultima Online were the best MMOs?

 

It's hard to explain but basically: was Everquest, DAoC and Ultima Online better than World of Warcraft (Vanilla) and Guild Wars (Vanilla) in your opinion, or do you think WoW and GW were the same games but just improved? Or did you think WoW and GW were in fact better than Everquest and Ultima even though you started with Eq and Ultima?

 

Hopefully you understand what I'm trying to ask.

 

Everyone have their own record of history. I will now tell you mine.

 

There are two main things, we need to consider here -

 

1. Is the honeymoon. Most MMORPG players have one. Usually the honeymoon is the "great time" a player had with the first MMORPG they really got into. It's not always the first MMO they ever play, but the first game they play and really, really love.

It's a period that seems to pop up again and again in many MMORPG players. The people who got into Everquest had one. Or Ultima. Or SWG(the honeymoon group I was in). Or WoW. Or Lord of the Rings Online.

Following a honeymoon, what seems to happen to most players is that they become less happy. The honeymoon was great. Everything was new and exciting, and the player had the best prospecting waiting for them.

But as time went on, something changed - Perhaps it was a patch that altered something the player did not like, or an expansion that took the end game in a different direction. Perhaps it was the release of a new MMO that made the players friends and guildies leave for this new game. Whatever the case, the experience usually never becomes the same after the honeymoon. Sometimes the honeymoon lasts a month, sometimes years.

 

Using myself as an example, my honeymoon game was SWG. I had played MMORPGs before, and even loved a MMO before(Planetside) but it was SWG that really defined my playstyle. My newbieness, with MMORPGs having nothing to compare it to, made it easier for me to ignore the bad things. It was not like I had played 10 other MMORPGs before extensively and was able to hand pick each of their strengths against SWG. No. My lack of experience made me a lot more forgiving for SWG.

And then I was able to focus on the strengths of SWG. The things I had never seen in "normal" games. Like building a player city. An actual freaking player city, that altered the planet and server, with the powerful crafters and good salesmen and politicians that branded it. The sense of being part of something larger would to this day, be part of what I consider a MMORPG to be.

As my first real MMORPG it deeply affected me.

 

I am sure people can tell you the same with other games. People who started with DAOC would probably say, that their expectations for server altering events and PvP are very high, and that they have been left unsatisfied.

In the end, it's not that people hate MMORPGs now. In fact there are lots of people who love MMORPGs. Many people would never have considered paying for one, before WoW came out. It took WoW to create a cultural mainstream change in peoples deception. The majority basked in an ignorance of believing that it was the ultimate ripoff and retardiation, and something to be shunned at, to pay monthly to a boring stinky online game with lame combat.

 

What has changed for old school MMO'ers is expectations. MMORPG's are a large time investment. Many people seem to become cynical as they grind in yet a new game, and with the release of these new F2P games like Hellgate and Age of Conan, I am doubting myself, and then even when I am able to get these games for free, if they are worth my time. I think we have become so crictical and so selfaware of our limited time, during our best years, from child to age 60 or something, that we do not wish to squander them on mediocre MMO experiences, or merely decent MMORPGs.

 

When are some developers going to make a MMORPG worthy of us? I believe SWTOR and GW2 are trying. They are trying to be responsible of their time commitment. But only time will tell if they can live up to their word of not giving us a grind, but an actual real narrative throughout the levelling process.

 

 

As for end game... I think that's a different discussion. I've rambled long enough.

extremely well written post! Trying to figure out how to give rep.. and i see you are a Dane, which explains the intelligence ;)


Originally posted by Yamota



I really wish companies stop hyping their game so far from release as I heard GW 2 wont likely be released until 2012.



 


How is stating what content is in their game hyping? afaik other sites hype but on the arenanet site they dont hype really, unless its a dev blog saying they enjoy their jobs and hope we have fun with it like they do. 


 


to everyone else bitching about too much technology, read the lore. noone bitched about witchhunters in war, and really, who complained about demonhunters or w/e in diablo 3?


it isnt a new fantasy concept, its just a different one. it has been in the lore through the books AND the original game - there were seige engines, cannons, 250 years ago! it is just a short step tech wise to go from cannon to gun, look at our own real history for proof.


youd not be able to play vanguard on a laptop, i dont think, it's engine is  pretty intensive.

Originally posted by kitarad

Considering how many games are coming out this year it is not a good idea to make people choose. It will just cannibalize the players of games .It is better to wait when the players are hungry for a new game to release so 2012 seems to be better. I know for me this year there is way too many and to be honest March itself is killing me.

 

 good thing they dont have to choose guild wars 2 over X pay-to-play title - guild wars has no sub fees and only costs a box purchase. :) GW2 can co-exist with all the current titles including WoW.

Originally posted by dreamer05

I definitely know I'm in the lower percentage of people who prefer to just be pure healing, and the only other group role I really enjoy is crowd control so I haven't been able to read so far what classes may or may not have this ability but just reading the class list and not seeing any type of healing class at all I can't see myself playing it.  Even having a healing class that simply buffed and had some minor healing would be better than no healer at all in my opinion.

the ranger class can do useful party buffs when they have a horn equipped, as well as crowd control and healing. they havent released 4 other classes though, but from what you described a support-focused ranger would probably be pretty satisfying for you and sounds like a huge team asset!

 

one of the classes yet to be released has a concept art image of a woman in plate with a mace. i would strongly suspect some sort of paladin/defender type class.

blue mace lady

Originally posted by deviliscious
Originally posted by Alberel
Originally posted by deviliscious

As I have already stated above, to each their own. I am not sure why  my thinking that furry species are a freaky childhood obsession is offensive-  But hey whatever floats your boat. LOL

Trolling is posting personal attacks, misinformation and flaming, which I have done none of the above.

I don't really want to get involved in this argument but the irony of the statement I quoted forced my hand.

Devil you do realise that naming something that other people like as a 'freaky childhood obsession' is a personal attack labelling those people as freaks, childish and obsessive right? A personal attack doesn't have to be directed at one person, it merely has to be aimed at those holding a given belief or opinion. It's the same as you telling a gay person that you think homosexuality is sick and disgusting (not that I am saying you hold such a view), that may be your opinion but they would have every right to be offended by it.

 DId you seriously just compare someone being gay as to whether or not someone roleplays a nonhuman in an mmorpg? If someone cares that strongly about roleplaying a nonhuman in a MMOPRG, Then I guess my opinion as it being a " freaky childhood OBSESSION" would most definately apply.

If that is offensive- then yes they are indeed taking things too seriously. Now from the other side of this, It makes perfect sense why someone with Achondroplasia being referred to as a " dwarf" or someone with ear deformaties being referred to as an "elf"

But for someone to take offense because someone else finds playing non humans a " freaky childhood obsession" is more than a bit of a stretch. That is absurd.

I have been a fan of Guild wars from the start, been looking forward to this game from the beginning, and took part in the surveys they used to create this game.  You can go look at the very first post in this Guild wars 2 forum, and I am there, cheering Arena Net on. I am not saying they should remove what they have already put into the game, but I am entitled to my opinion on whether or not it was tasteful to do so. I find it in poor taste.

You take your opinion of yourself far too seriously. Noone honestly believes dwarves in world of warcraft are the exact same as Achondroplasia sufferers in real life. Stop making straw man arguments and stop assuming anyone gives a damn what you think, you are clearly just arguing for the sake of arguing and being a postcount whore.

 

the post subject asks why you will choose the race you choose, not why you are deluded enough to think anyone respects  your thoughts on any other random drivel you choose to spew out after "twirling your pigtails."

 

yeah, thats a personal attack, but i am sorry, i cant stand hyperactive drama queens that cry "OH THE CHILDREN!" to get their 15 seconds of fame on some anonymous forum,

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

Originally posted by Morcotulcon 

And why are you wrong? Because they developed completely new ideas that you haven't seen before in MMORPGs. So all you're opinions about GW2 are failing badly because you haven't searched why all they are saying is actually good and possible. If I start explainning to you all the info of GW2, this will take me hours to do it, so just search before talk about it.

 

AND for you and Ramonski7, that clearly haven't search for info too (all from WoW? what? Dynamic Event System? Dye System? different kind of rewards? Sidekick System? and I haven't even talked about half of it.... yeah right! )

 Care to list all of these things that have never been done before?

 

Dye system? Wow Asheron's Call has had that for a decade now and it also has a tailoring system on top of that. So you can dye your clothes/armor and you can also take the look of a piece of armor and put it into another one. So let's say you have a breastplate with good stats but looks like platemail and you want leather. You find a leather breastplate that looks the way you want and you tailor that onto your original plate breastplate. Now you have a leasther breastplate with the stats of the plate breastplate. This allows for a lot of customization and changes to your character's look.

 

Dynamic events? Ohh ahh. Asheron's call has done that many times where depening on which part of an event/quest were completed caused different things to change on the world. Not only is it not original it is extremely easy to do. Vanguard had the diplomacy system which allowed for people to turn on and off different things in cities (mostly buffs in the first month which is when I quit so could be more now) and was dynamic based on which NPCs the players were being diplomatic with and players could go in and undo what others had done and turn something else on.

 

Sidekick System? I will wait until I hear more from you about what it is but I will cover two options. One is that you have a creature/person AI that fights along with you. This has been done in many MMOs and they level and you give them gear. So I hope it isn't that if you're calling it something new. Another is that you team up with someone and you share XP to help keep each other close in level, also been done by several MMOs.

 

 

I really want to hear all of these "new never been done" things because everytime I hear about such things in MMOs they're never new. They are generally only new to people who haven't tried very many MMOs or who started with WoW and that is all they have played. I keep hearing the same thing about SW:ToR and haven't heard anything actually new yet.

 

1. branching individualized story lines that are cinematic and lore related. What happens in my story will be different from your story starting from my first choices i make in game. you actually get to see it at many many points throughout the game via cinematics that are scripted from your characters activities and then spooled out from your local system, so they can add and change stuff  very quickly - a pretty damn clever custom content generation system.  hasnt been done in any mmo before, only single player games (and not too many of those either).

2. vanguard diplomacy just provides city buffs, it doesnt change lore for anyone, including you.

3. old gear can be taken apart and put on to new gear to provide set bonuses (up to 6), meaning you dont outgrow old gear, you just get more powerful because you had it.

4. personalities - the way you treat characters in games changes how npcs react to you. if you get answers by punching people in the head as a dialogue option, people cower in fear and give you milk money. if you charm them with your mangina cleavage, they help you hoping theyll get some - or get jealous and call you a homewrecking hussy and refuse to help. changes on the fly depending on how often you make similar moral choices to previous choices you have made

5. environmental interactives and spontaneous skill swapping - pick up a rock, you get new skills to use with it. pick up a bee hive, ditto. skills that depend entirely upon what weapon you use, which you can swap in and out of on the fly, instead of being locked into it via an artificial skill system.

 

6.  ...wait... why am i spoon feeding you stuff you could learn from the most casual possible browsing of the damn blog site? go read on it for yourself ya lazy git, or gtfo... http://www.arena.net/blog/

Originally posted by jinxxed0


Omg are you serous dude? No, guild wars will not be the top MMO. I may be the Best, but it wont be the top.

 

WoW is the top because it dumped millions of dollars into advertising. Its the only MMO to advertise on television in North America. Its one of the most generic MMOs ever. Look at Mafia Wars and Farmville. Browser games that came before them were much better. It has nothing to do with how good a game is. You have to be a complete idiot to think that better quality wins in this industry when you look at the games that come out on top and compare them to the games they dominate.

 

WoW appeals to people that aren't gamers. Its dumbed down so that anyone can get into it, just like farmville or mafia wars. There are far more "regular" people out there than there are "gamers". Guild Wars appeals to "gamers" not regular people, or rather, "casual" people.

 

How is this not common knowledge. Come on people.

 

yep - you are right on the money. McWarcraft will always prevail because it is the "gateway game." That's fine by me though, more dipshits in cataclysm means less idiots for me to have to deal with in my drug of choice!

Originally posted by rmk70


This is definitely one of the best PvE games I have ever played. It's really unfortunate how the population is dwindling away. SOE really should step up to plate and market the game better, and clearly commit to long-term support and development.

 

I know one of the main reasons I'm not going back is due to the lack of support and the sense that the game will be axed in the near future.

 

That's what kept me from resubbing again. I saw that the development team was limping along, completely unable to do all the wonderful things they dreamt of doing for the game, because sony was absolutely unwilling to drop a dime into the game.

 

It goes unmarketed, underdeveloped and underfunded. It breaks my damn heart, because I love that game so much I can't bear to see it end, but I know it will inevitably die a long, slow death.

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