Seems like a rather naive post.  In my experience, these little arguments between RP people and the trolls that like to torment them occur in the beginning areas or the capital areas where people tend to congregate.  But hey, those are where all the evils of gaming seem to occur.  Gold spammers . . . beggars . . . blanket spammed guild invitiations . . . scams . . . it all takes place in the cities.  Just like in the old days when the rural preachers of America used to talk about the sins of the city.  It's just like saying that anybody that goes to the capital areas or crafting areas or auction areas, etc, likes to be the victim of gold spammers, beggars, scams, etc.

As for this idea that nobody really roleplays, well sheesh, I think that everybody does in fact roleplay.  Afterall, only in a roleplaying game would you seriously care whether you had the Hammer of All-Power or not.  In real life I don't run around in armor or a sword.   And as for talking funny, well, who needs to talk funny to roleplay.  In the Middle Ages, everybody in the same region tlaked the same and nobody sounded like they had an accent unless they were from a few valleys over.  So if nobody uses an "accent" when they roleplay, that's fine.  That just simulates that nobody would hear an accent anyway.

Leet talk is just another form of Thieve's Cant or the slang of youth gangs.  In Rome there was there was slang amongst mercenaries, teens, etc.  And no doubt, the language grated on the ears of the elder and the more refined.  Well, hearing leet speak just lends to my roleplaying experience.

The only thing that really hurts the experience is when people talking about stuff totally unrelated to the game, but then again . . . haven't people always talked about family life, whatever sporting events they were interested in (bar fights or the latest gladiatorial results), and the more mundane occurances of life throughout history?  So, hey, I can incorporate that into the roleplaying experience too.

So people can talk about all these different things and use leet speak and all that and STILL be roleplayers because even though all these real life discussions can be brought intot he illusion of roleplay, the fact that they are pretending to play with swords or using magic just doesn't transfer intot he real world.  In the real world, we just don't run around with swords, fight dragons, etc.  We don't care about obtaining ancient artifacts because of the power they will give us.  We are not adventurers and warriors and mages.  So we are all roleplaying.

Seems to me neither has failed just yet, though the release of AoC was messy.  I was there for that and very disappointed.   The bait and switch involved with fantastic Tortage and then very very poor content after that was just sad.   Warhammer did a lot better in that respect.

By the by, standing still doesn't work so well in Warhammer what with all the positional attacks . . .  Plus LoS rules and such often reward movement in rvr.  I like the music and the graphics just fine, but do wish they had a few more emotes in Warhammer.  That said, they do have some anyway. 

As far as I can tell, the Slayer was never cut.  They had in fact assured people that the Slayer would not be part of the game because of the Warhammer RPG  developers wouldn't agree to it, but that changed.  

I'm thinking about revisiting AoC.  There was a lot to like about it, though I find it funny how you couldn't be very Conanish in the game.  Like Conan would give away gems he had cut out of Alligators to some merchant for a few measely gold . . .

Hopefully both games will continue to get better.   Warhammer has been fun as far as I'm concerned, and as long as they have one good server, I'm happy :)

All the games start out like that.  It will no doubt calm down in a month or two. 

Originally posted by oren_k

You can. In the ZEngine software there is ability to create what they call 'Layers'. You set up the layers with mapping as you wish and assign a key that toggle between your mapping layers.

This is what you asked for, right?

That's a big part of what I was looking for.  It makes the whole setup much more attractive to me, though there were some other things in my post that I was also looking for (like an ergonomic gaming keyboard).  Thanks a bunch for your answer though.  A big help.

Is there a state mode that will change all the keys to a different set up on the fly?  The packaging never made this clear to me.   My first experience with a left-handed game keypad type controller was the Strategic Commander by microsoft a while back.  It tried to be a bit more than just a keypad, and was kind of clunky, but it had these keys that  you could hit during a game that would shift the entire keymapping of the device on the fly.  It was a good feature that multiplied the number of keys that could be mapped.  I didn't see that in this product, so essentially, it looked like just a reorganization of a few keys on the keyboard.

What stopped me from buying this little extra bit of equipment was a careful examination of the layout of the keys.  I think I still have access to more keys with my left-hand on a normal keyboard than I do with this contraption (or its counterpart the Fang).  I can hit F1-F5 without even thinking about it on my keyboard comparing with 7-11 on the Stealth.  1-6 are pretty much the same except I have to reach further to get to them because on the Ideazon version because the WASD keys are so much larger.  Also I can use the tilda key.  On my keyboard, I can easily hit r-f-v-t-g-b to the right of WASD, I can hit z-x-c-v, I can hit control or alt (never use that windows start key, and on the left I can hit tab and shift. 

On most games when I hit tab or shift I can hit a whole different set of keys for all the ones I named above (for example control r, alt r, or shift r).   On most games (but not all), all that means a whole new set of assignments are possible.  Furthermore, a game like EVE allows combos like control-shift-r, control-alt-r, and shift-alt-r.  Some of those combos are impossible for certain keys (control-alt-v doesn't work so well for me), but still, there are yet more keymapping possibilities.  Some games I can play entirely with my left hand on my existing keyboard.

Finally, I'm using a Microsoft Natural Elite because I don't get pain in my wrists when I use it.  There isn't a gaming keyboard yet that is made with that kind of ergonomic curvature sadly.  Between aching wrists and a keyboard that looks cool but doesn't give all that much apparent advantage, I will do without the pain.

What I would like personally is a keyboard with the curvature of the Microsoft Natural Elite with a mode change button that is easily accessible on my mouse to switch between a "control" state, a "shift" state, and an "alt" state and combos of those three.  Then I could just hit the little button and poof, I would have a whole new set of "control" keys or whatever with just the press of a button.

My wish is for something like this Stealth with an ergonomic keyboard and a mode or shift/alt/control shifting function built into it somehow or mappable to a mouse button.  That would make me very happy.  Does such a thing exist?

Edit:  On little thing that is kind of nice that nobody I saw mentioned was the 2 usb ports on the keyboard.  That seems convenient to me though I know it is offered by other keyboards as well.

If they can deliver on what they promise, I will play it.  If not, I won't.  Very simple.  What else is there to discuss?

Funny thing is, when playing just about any game there is out there, you can at almost any time stop and ask yourself, "What the hell am I doing spending my time doing this for?"

Nice thing about guildwars is you can "quit" and come back and everything you had is still there . . . at least for now.  It's the beauty of buying the game and then no monthly fees.  I've lost interest a few times and come back.  No big deal . . .

I don't even feel like I get behind too much simply because you are right.  There's not a heck of a big difference between any level 20 character after the first week or two.  I think that's the beauty of it.  I can just come back and jump right in.  Nice.

If you haven't quit guildwars once, you should go ahead and quit for a short while.  Then come back and you will see one big thing that sets this game apart. 

In reference to the post imediately before this one, that system you propose sounds like how most systems end up once you reach the top level in most of these games out there.  For instance, in WoW at level 60, you gear differentiates you from others.  In DAOC, if you are a veteran of RvR, you are going to have some moves that other players don't have.

Furthermore, once you have pretty much maxed your level, everybody has pretty much the same hp, excepting special bonuses, skills, etc.  It's hard to say what hit points really ARE anyway.  Maybe they more reflect your skills at avoiding death until you get too tired, too careless, and that kid with the machine gun finally hits you in the stomach whereas before you were getting away.  Perhaps, the difference in hit points between a kid and you reflects the fact that you might survive an encounter with a 12-year old trying to fire a maching gun at you than if the roles are reversed.  In other words, he wouldn't know how to avoid getting killed as easily as you would.  If it is merely wounding, then it seems like your abilities should drop with your hit points, but I don't see many games where that is the case.  You are fine until you die.

I would say that EVE comes close to what you are talking about.  You have to have your character learn the proper use of various kinds of technology while good gear gives a decent advantage.  You don't have levels, and you are as mortal as the next guy (meaning you have a clone stored away somewhere).  If you blow up, you blow up.  Friends can give you stuff to help you out early on.  You just have to learn how to use it well.  It's a space game, of course.  Perhaps you are thinking more in line with your fantasy type games.  I think more of your skills based games are more what you are talking about.

For example, Ultima Online allowed you to wear anything anybody gave you but you had to practice skills to get good at using that equipment.   People had pretty much the same hit points as I recall.

Another example might be Planetside.  You can get the exact same equipment, but again, you gradually learn skills over time.

Ooops  Double post.  Sorry.

I like variety, and really, that's what we see in games today.  There should DEFINATELY be games where pvp has consequences, permadeath is a possibility, etc.  If you don't like that possibility at all, then don't play the game.  Simple.  Play one of the others out there.

In all "debates" like this, there seems to be a tendancy to assume that there is some "best" situation out there.  Not so. 

EVE seems to be the best example of pvp without restrictions (except in empire zones).  For a while, I liked DAOC, but for me, I need a little bit more purpose in battle.  Day to day, aside from large raids, there didn't seem to be a purpose other than gaining realm points.  It was fun when it had scale, but otherwise, it just wasn't that entertaining to me (and then there was all the cheating).

Somebody suggested that everybody should go out with the same equipment and basic abilities and there should be no death consequences.  Well, that sounds to me like Guildwars.   Arena and tournament combat is just like that.

In fact, almost every suggestion exists except . . . there's no decent permadeath game out there that I know about. 

For me, PvP imotivates most of my PvE activity.  I may play for months at PvE just to gain advantages in PvP (like in DAOC).   Otherwise, gaining levels, getting stuff, etc. just seems pointless other than to "look cool."  That's the big problem for me in WoW.  It's mostly just about obtaining things.  They haven't implemented BGs in a meaningful enough way.

For me, most important in PvP is purpose.  No rules universes can provide purpose like EVE, but so can battlegrounds, etc.  It just has to be done well.  If DAOC had special crafting components that had to be farmed inside little dungeons unique to each keep, the battles would have a LOT more meaning for me!  People fight over resources in the real world!  So we should do in games if we want meaning.