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Sandbox vs Themepark Discussion Thread
The Pub at MMORPG.COM « General Discussion
11/16/12 12:49:24 PM
Originally posted by Iselin
This made me laugh because I thought something along these lines yesterday.
My theory is the following:
You can't have Sanbox without Themepark. Every game must have some type of layout in place for the game already developed, tested, and implemented the correct way for it to be enjoyable. Because you can go to both extremes and say a game is completely "themepark" and its just the player going from one ride to another jsut sitting back enjoying what the developers created with minimal interactions. On the other side you can make your game totally "sanbox" and give you players a 3d engine and graphics tool and say "enjoy yourself". We all know both extremes will NOT work.
Just like in a themepark there could be an already layed out rollercoaster, there can also be a virtual coaster that has the tools for people to pick certain layouts and create their customized rollercoaster and ride it, creation is part of the player experience some people like it some people do not.
The trick is to take every game system that players are looking for and that mesh well together and create a frankenstein of a creation balancing out systems by deciding how "themepark" or "sandbox" they should be to make the game experience you and your team are trying to create come alive (pun intended). Sometimes game developers get it right and you have a game players enjoy for a while and most the time s**t hits the fan.
In the end of the day it all comes down to what audience you are looking to attract and the experience you want them to receive. The key to making a great game: Balance
Good thing you mentioned this, forgot to add the gearing system into the post above.
The best gear will only be the craftable kind, and all the materials, modifications, and gear will be upgraded, disenchanted, recut (gems), etc. so the player can keep the look they have or find a new one. So a player can either work to make the gear they have into goddess grade or create goddess grade gear, mods, and materials. Both paths require materials gathered by killing a specific spawn, doing a ceremonial quest / mission, or something along the lines that is very difficult to accomplish to give players a sense of accomplishment.
Players can take gear, modification items, and some materials to a skills crafter and they can reverse craft the item to receive the pattern and materials to make the gear for others or make another type of gear with the items received.
After defeating a raid boss, or any type of mob for that matter, players will receive three types of loot:
Crafting materials- farmed off of the body. Grade of Crafting materials will depend on crafting profession level and algorithm for drop quantity and quality percentages. If one player has level 100 herbalism and another has level 200 they will both be able to receive items from the boss but the grade that they receive will depend on their professions level. So essentially the level 100 Herbalist will receive "Ghost Tree wood (Rare grade)" and the 200 Herbalist will receive "Ghost Tree Wood (Epic Grade)". The amount and the grade of the materials received are based off of a crit system for gathering materials that subsequently is based off of the players level.
Modifications- enchant scrolls, insignias, imbuement pots, spikes, armor plating, gems, etc. The mob will drop a wide variety of modifications for players to choose from but the same grade.
Gear- all loot drop will have the same percentage of drop rate but can drop with or wihout modifications already on the piece of gear. Lower drop rates will have more modifications located on the gear or a chance to have a specified +X enchant level on it.
So you just killed a raid boss and are looting, first the gear and mods will be lootable and then the body will be available to gather materials from.
Loot drops will look like this:
Sword of the heavens:
enchant level (+4)
(Basic stats list)
Gem slot (empty)
Insignia slot (Ability power insignia name (Epic grade) )
enchant level (+6)
(Basic stats list)
Gem slot (Direct damage gem name (epic grade)
Insignia slot (empty)
gem slot (empty)
Hazed Iron spikes (Modification item)
Prototype of the actual gameplay (if reffering to actual gameplay demostration) will not be available for a while.
Reason being that my current state of production is basically finishing the core development and lore, always open to suggestions and recommendations.
Ofcourse I have financial spreadsheets, marketing plan documents, GUI layouts, and some other essential documents ready but for obvious reason will not be posting those to the public.
This is my first real try at releasing a game out of development so any tips or the like would be appreciated.
When im done or feel comfortable with the amount of development I will be looking for help with the actual programming, tech, and art aspects which should be in a few month. If anyone is interested feel free to contact me through PM for more information.
As I am new to the site would like to start by saying that there are some great ideas floating around in the forums and a great community to go with it. I have lingered as an unregistered member for about a year and decided to finally become a part of it all.
Hold on tight as this is gona be a long post of one of the games im developing and would like some feedback on what you all the community would change and why or if you would add anything.
Genre: Scifi / Fantasy
Niche: Craft based Endgame
Combat system: Action based targetting
Perspective: 3rd Person
Progression structure: Level based
Difficulty: Average (End game content will have option to clear in a harder difficulty)
Game Concept: PC MMORPG based on Crafting and End-game group content. Players will be introduced into a universe that is based on magical technologies that is in danger of eradication from invading forces. The player will have the option of focusing on different progression paths such as Crafting, Combat , or Governing systems.
World Setting: Great devestation has fallen upon the worlds of each race. They say it was the gods that chose to eliminate them, some say it was an alien race. One thing is for certain, their is no turning back to the nightmares of the past. After being mysteriously transported to a city by the vortex that was summoned as death inched closer, the players see themselves in a magnificent ancient city crowded by all forms of races. (Short battle that let player learn how to use combat system)
Players are guided through the city and its territorries (Tutorial of the games features and the only city in the game).
Objective- Join the front forces to defeat the enemies that have been crossing into the realm by means of the same vortex system that saved you from the grips of death. As the enemy (NPC's) are defeated (dynamic events) other content will be unlocked (Zone phasing).
Leveling- Every level gained in experience points will grant the player skill points that can be added to a specific base stat. The player will have a limited amount of points to use.
Weapons- All weapons will be equipable by every class and based on a leveling system. As the player levels their weapon skill they unlock abilities and combo attacks.
Armor- Not specific to a class, all classes can wear all types of armor as the only thing it increases is the base stats.
Targeting- Will be based on a targeting system but integrated with action based combat. This will allow a player to target an opponent and have an area of movement that will allow the player to hit its target but if they move outside the targetting parameters the player will miss the hits.
Dodging- All players will have the ability to dodge attacks by using up agility bars. The amount of ability bars and its regeneration are based on the leveling skill points and armor type.
Crafting- Randomized node spawns and NPC's will be the main ways to get materials for crafting skills. Instead of having level based system all materials,weapons,armor, and other usable items will be based on a grade system. Common and Uncommon grade equipables will drop off mobs that can actually hold them in some way (no great swords or pants out of wolves). The grades are the following: Scrap, Common, Uncommon, Rare, Epic, Legendary, goddess (Gear and weapons are also based off of the same grade system). So two players can be farmin a node but one of the players has low mining skills so they receive a common grade gold ore and the other player that has high mining skills will receive a epic grade gold ore. No materials will go to waste, if a player has 10 common grade gold ores they can create an uncommon grade gold ore as long as they are high enough in skill for smelting.
Crafting classes- Weaponsmith, Armorsmith, Leatherworking, Tailoring, Alchemist, Herbalist, Scholar, Cooking, Jeweler, Masonry, Mining, Smelting, Carpentry, Fishing, Scavenging, Taming, Transmorgrification.
Player Housing- Lots will be available in the main city that are divided into three types: Housing, Guild , Trading. All available to be purchased by players.
Towns- Towns are zoned section in different regions that can be purchased to create a town from scratch after meeting the requirements. Towns can only be purchased if the player is a lead member or the leader of a guild with the population and activity needed to meet requirements. Towns are built, maintained, and ran by the guild.
Trinity system- Tank, Dps, and Healer.
Respeccing- Any player can respecc into a different weapon of choice out of combat. Switching roles will require a respeccing scroll or going to an NPC and paying for it. A player can adquire more tabs to save more speccs to maximize efficiency.
Trading market- towns will only have trading markets that are town based which means players can only buy from shops that are located in the town with taxes from the town. Main city will have its own base tax on trading shops owned by players and NPC's. The Global Market House will be available in the main city or in towns that pay for the service and only big quantities can be sold.
GvG- Guilds can opt to join GvG qeueu or specificaly declare enemy status with another guild. once war has been declared from both guild their towns become a capture the flag type of siege. If a guild captures the others flag or kills their leader(s) they will gain a experience boost along with other items and points.
Arena- instanced area that is dedicated to a competitive battle against two established teams or randomly selected players that wer ein qeueu based off of a ladder ranking system.
Bounty Hunting- Players add themselves as members of the Bounty Games and will be given 1 target to kill (doesnt matter were they are located). Once flagged for bounty hunting you can be killed by anyone that is a bounty hunter. If a player attacks a target they are locked in a deathduel against eachother and cannot be interrupted from ganks or PK's from other players. Only way a player can be killed while deathdueling from another player is by entering a guilds town that you are enemies with.
Raids- instanced zones. Raids will be progression based so depending on how the boss is defeated or if nightmare mode is activated while fighting or before fighting is what type of loot the group gets and if the following content is unlocked.
Dungeons- Open world areas that are based on dynamic events and phasing dungeons open up raids and other content in the world such as rare spawns and materials for crafting and trophies.
Achievments- Basic achievment system. Some achievments will unlock trophies and other items that show up in the players house or in guild halls.
Equipment slots: Helms, gloves, Chestpiece, Pants, Shoes.
Secondary equipment slots: Necklace, bracers, rings (2), cape, shoulders.
Weapon slots: mainhand and offhand.
Artifact (2): auroras, special ability trinkets etc.
Total slots will be 15.
All equipable gear will have base stats. Insignia Slot, Enchantment slot, Gem slot, or one of the following runes, spikes, armoring. Gear can also be imbued with alchemic potions.
Mounts- Different type of mounts will require different skill level in Beastmastery or purchasing a mount skill book from a Scholar. Mounts will be based off of level, they will start off as unmountable companions and transform into mounts as they increase in level. The player can sell pets and mounts to other players. If a player buys a companion or mount they can train it from the level it was sold as. If a player buys a mount it can use the mount as long as they have the required Beastmastery skill. Flying type mounts will only have the ability to float (indicated as a buff on the player) they will be able to avoid aggro from normal NPC's. Movement speed of mount will be based on the Beastmastery level or mounting speed that the player has.
Different character stats:
Endurance (Increases Health Pool)
Agility (Increases Agility Pool)
Power (Increases Ability Power controls the amount of healing and damage done)
Wisdom (Ability regeneration speed)
Intellect (Increases Ability Pool)
Stamina (Increases Health regeneration)
Crit (increases chance of critical hits)
Focus (Accuracy increase)
Haste (Attack speed increase)
Defense (Physical attack reduction)
Resist (Spell attack reduction)
*****Updated Novemeber 14 12:00pm*****
*****Updated Novemeber 15 12:00pm*****
Please specify what you would add or change and why thank you :)
If you wish to participate in development please contact me through a PM
OMG, I just realized what went wrong!
General Discussion « Star Wars: The Old Republic
11/12/12 6:18:44 PM
A large portion of the players loved the story and loved the way leveling went and how alike it was to the single player games of KtoR. Obviously the OP is correct and the MMO part of the game was just not very well structured even though it was a beautiful and amazing game.
Having such large company like EA breathing down Biowares neck because of the budget and time they used during development that it was rushed to the market. Everyone can tell that the Pre-launch website was full of content that was good for lore but really nothing came out of it. There was no benefit in spending 300 million dollars in writers for content and putting so much time and effort to even have side quests voice acted if in the end we were left in a cliff hanger. just waiting for more...
Developers had the mindset of "Everyone will enjoy the story so much they will role other characters!!!"
Unfortunate thing is that they missed two of the most essential things of an MMO: systems (Rated PvP, Arena, end-game content etc...) and replay value. To no surprise the game came to a very awkward position when people reached end-game and saw that only thing they could do is explore the planets and farm Eternity Vault. PvPers were thrown under the bus with the fail that was the capture based pvp area that was supposely going to evolve open world pvp. The unmotivating grind of huttball (because thats all you got to play EVER... i liked huttball though lol) without any incentives to actually keep grinding them. The oh so buggy and lagtastic raid that was Eternity Vault. The 2nd boss would not despawn thus running back would sometimes cause people to aggro him and cause us to wipe. 3rd boss was actually very cool puzzle. 4th boss was an awesome fight. Going into Soa and having to depend on luck to not get the 2nd level to have missing pieces of the floor and thunder balls that would not despawn when their target was being thrown around thus having a cluster f*** of damage. Even the 3rd phase were Soa would lag and miss the pylon to take off his shield. Awesome concept but very poorly programmed.
SWtoR has improved TREMENDOUSLY, their custom gear system is the best I have used in a very long time, the raids are improving, and pvp is actually getting some attention (im still sadface since its still pretty stale).
I recommend everyone to try the game out when it goes F2P its worth it 100%. But for the end game I personally will wait until they add more systems and content before paying for that.
Action based combat is pretty amazing. That is the only thing that kept me playing Tera for a while.
Depending on were you would stand the enemy would target and do an attack, the player had the choice to dodge out of the attack or take the hit depending on the boss or mob it was fighting. Some of the monsters had a fast hit rate so one had to choose which hits you would take or dodge depending on the circumstance. Now the abilities were in a combo based system so the player could customize their combos to their play style (players had default combos or could glyph or change combos as they chose from the list they were given). This let the player customize the way they played.
Tera has been the best combat system i have played in an MMORPG in a while... I hear that Blade and Soul will be pretty good too so lets see how that turns out.