Frankly, I found the way patch 1.1 was delivered to be very reminiscent of Warhammer patches.  Heck, one skill in particular received 7 different nerfs applied to it (two were bug fixes that significantly negatively decreased it's damage, other 5 were nerfs outright), and it wasn't particularly OP in the first place.

I gave it a shot, I was enjoying the game, but Adam apparently didn't learn his lessons after driving away the subs from Warhammer, and continues to distribute his version of "balance" in the same horrid, unfun, gamebreaking way.  I'm confident that the lights will stay on, but this game is going to go the same direction that Warhammer did, since the same guy is calling the shots and doing the same thing.  If they let him go soon (like, now, today, or at least this week), they've got a shot, and I'm pretty sure they could fill his spot with a half-retarded homeless drunk and achieve better balance delivered in a more player friendly way.

Well, I find the game to be quite fun.  I enjoy the quests, the rifts (ok, the invasions of rifts all over the map can be a wee bit much sometimes, I'll admit), players seem friendly, pvp is active, and the world is pretty.  The characters move well, and don't appear stiff or clunky, and the animations aren't annoying imo.

There are some balance issues, though they're not too severe for a not-quite-launched game, all things considered.

Your milage may vary, but I like it.  It's a good game.  I look forward to seeing where it goes, and expect to be playing for quite some time.

I often play female characters.  When there is no stat difference, I pick the smallest character I can manage.  This tends to be females.

I also prefer pvp MMOs, and a smaller character can be slightly easier to hide/slightly more difficult to target, depending on the game.  That's my reasoning behind it.  If the male character is the same size, I play a male.

Originally posted by Ghostcamel

Thanks for the info cali59 and ComfyChair.

When describing traditional RPGs as 'click and watch', i wasnt saying they suck because of that. I think we all have played a ton of that type of game and loved many of them to death. I just wanted what i was talking about to be clear.

So, if i understand correctly, the 1-3, and sometimes, 4-5 slots control your weapons(1H,2H,offhand). And the other five are your 'spells'. Right?

 1-5 are the skills that are preselected for your class/weapon combo.

Plus, you have a rez (you must take this).

Plus you have a self heal (you must take this)

You have 3 skills to pick for yourself, though one must be an elite.

Originally posted by MumboJumbo

1. Weapons allow different skills to be slotted: So characters can have access to melee and ranged damage. Traits/Utility will boost melee skills etc. Soldiers appear to be frontline professions.

2. http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/298180/The-Skill-Bar-Discussion.html for a look at the number of skills available. You can do the combinations possible and it's still impressive. It should be i) more possible for the devs to balance the skills ii) ensure that there is greater % of effective builds and less useless builds than in GW. Fewer but still a lot of builds possible it seems?

3. See http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/ for more on why healers are now Support. Healers directly or indirectly ruined too many games for me.

Overalll it's interesting to see what ArenaNet are trying to improve and if they will succeed? I think they have a good chance of doing so.

 1.  No, weapons come with different skills set by the weapon, they don not allow you to reset 5 skills to whatever you want each time you swap them out, just to whatever the weapon you're swapping to has available for you.  Thus, every Joes Hammer will have the same skills as every other Joes Hammer, for example.  If I want different skills, perhaps I'll switch to the Bow of Pokey Stick Flinging to enjoy the same 5 skills as every other person using the Bow of Pokey Stick Flinging.  Boring.  Thanks devs for deciding that, to use Joes Hammer I am required to fill half my bar with what you want instead of giving the choice to the player.  It'll be lots of fun to be max level and realize that you rolled the wrong race for pvp, and have to reroll, too.

2.  I've read that already.  You and I both know that, much like GW1 (and every other online game) within a few months of release, many skills will be deemed not worth putting on the bar.  The lack of customization of the bars in GW2 will only add to that.  Bring the good skills, leave the mediocre or situational behind-you only have a few slots where you can pick and choose, don't waste them.  It'll be lots of fun to be max level and realize that you rolled the wrong race for pvp and have to reroll, too (lets face it, all traits won't be created equal, and some will rise above the others.  Top tier pvp will require top tier traits)

3.  I've seen that too.  The impression I got from it for pvp was "lure the other team into preprotting player A, then switch and spike player B into the ground".  With the main heal being the one players use on themselves, which shouldn't be too tough to shutdown, frontliners are in serious jeopardy.  Lure the prot elsewhere, then knock and burn the warrior.  You're stuck in enemy lines and nobody has the skills to make the red bars go up significantly enough to counteract it.

I feel that I poorly conveyed my point, at least on #3.  Regardless, I still think that several of the changes between 1 and 2 are  major errors in judgement on behalf of the idiot in charge of the GW2 production.  If they don't have a red bar filler on the back burner able to be patched in quickly, I don't see gvg or similar being nearly as competative as it has been in GW1.  Which is a shame.

Originally posted by lilsteez
There are definitely ALOT of players with multiple accounts. But the population seems to be climbing everyday. Oh and Honkie you don't seem to be that interested if you're not willing to try the game for $3 :P

 I'm interested enough that, once there is a free trial, I'll probably start buying time.  I'd just rather take a tour before paying the rent.

Of course, if it takes too long, I'll just feel behind the curve, like Eve, and pass altogether.  So we'll see.  Plenty of other good stuff out there.

The game looks interesting.  However, I'm getting a bit jaded as far as MMOs go these days.  When they have a free trial (even if it's just a day or three), I'll probably end up subscribing for a while.  Till then, I'm going to give it a pass.  Don't get me wrong, I'm very interested, lots of good stuff about this game that appear promising.

After watching that video, the PVE looks great and the art/movement is awesome.  I'm quite impressed with it, from what I see in that video, though I can't help but wonder...will melee characters be fodder in pve?  Having to manage their own health might leave them having a bit of a time trying to not only be aware of their positioning and not take excessive damage, but pull out (and get away) when the hp gets low and the self heal is on recharge?  Ranged dps seems like you'll have a much greater chance to survive an encounter rather than looking at it from the "downed" perspective and hoping to get back on your feet.

Furthermore, the skills are still just as terrible as they were when they first announced them.  Half of your skills decided by your weapon.  One more used for self heal.  This leaves a choice of one elite (from 4-8 per class, iirc), and 3 utility skills.  The difference between two of a class seems so much less than in GW.  Look, a staff ele, just like the next staff ele.  No split classes might be easier to balance, but it kills the customization that was a trademark of the original game.  If you want a bar of crap, you can do it, perhaps that's what your guild needs you to run or maybe you're just bad.  When developers try to develop away the players ability to fail or put together a crappy character, they push too far, and its excessive coddling.  Perhaps frontline characters are fine with having a bar that's the same as the next bar, but midliners/backline (will there be a backline/frontline, or just gvg midliners?) might not need those weapon related skills, and want/could use different set ups.

The skills are where this game falls behind the original.  Don't force me to take the skills the devs want to cover half my bar, leave the bar open to player choice, and dammit...put a healing class back in the game.  Some of us like that, and further the gvg implications of not having a healer seem quite bad.  I do think that not requiring a healer in many areas seems good, but as someone who has been a pvp player of many games since 2003, it sounds like crap.

All in all, I almost want to buy it, it's a very pretty game.  If the skill set up wasn't so awful, I would.  Just not worth the investment though, as it stands, even without a monthly fee.

It's pretty easy to resist, imo.  Having so few skills on your bar sucks, and isn't interesting to play.  Every sword warrior will have more than half of the same skills as every other sword warrior.  Every staff elementalist will have more than half of the same skills as every other staff elementalist.  (5 from weapon, then the heal).  Likely there will be a handful of preferred elites, the rest being considered inferior or very specialized, so skill number 7 will be from a short list.  This leaves 3 skills to play around with.  Gee, three whole skills, all for me?  Oh goodie goodie.

Gonna leave this game in the kindergarten yard where it belongs.  It's pretty, but the crap skill selection is a total killer for me, and I was very into the original for a long time (still play once in a while, even).  In spite of the lack of a monthly fee, I don't find this game to be worth the initial purchase price, no matter how much hype it gets (which, frankly, is beyond me why someone would hype this thing anyway).

I'd suggest EQ2, fits many of those criteria.  However, it's been out a while, so if you don't know anybody you may find yourself grinding to max level (may, as opposed to will, since you could make friends on the way and guild up, voila, not solo grinding anymore).

Though, if you're purely after the social aspect, I'd suggest Eve Online.  It's a...different sort of MMO, but the there's a great community with the game.  OPEN PVP so be warned.

Originally posted by Warband

Lol the funny thing is this is completely and utterly wrong in regards to higher level pvp in gw1. It is a tactic that is avoided in high level pvp play in gw1. In high level gw1 pvp healing is already spread around most of the team, any team that left all it's healing to the monks were quickly and swiftly destroyed. Only people that knew very little about pvp left the healing purely to monks.

Besides comparing any mmo pvp to gw2 even gw1 is something that shouldn't done as it leads to massive misconceptions. There's now a revive system similar to gears of war, downed skills, finishing blows, extensive proactive protting with likely AoE shields etc. They're hasn't been an mmo combat anywhere close to this, stating how something does or doesn't work is useless in comparison to this game.

 So you're making the claim that "higher level pvp" has no dedicated healers?  Nobody who is ready with the quick prot or infuse to counter the spike, hanging in the backlines, that won't be busy with dps?  Perhaps you should reread what I said, since you're claiming that in GW pvp teams run with everyone managing their own healing.

Originally posted by kaltoum

Fallen Earth has already done this. heals for everyone. It is not as good as it sounds.

 Except that it doesn't even sound good. 

While it might be okay for pve (which can be designed around whatever), this is a pvp game, and it's going to absolutely wreck that aspect.  When people get focus fired, you NEED someone standing back ready to click that prot/heal to keep them from dying.  So, when the spike is called...sorry, your can't-wait heal/prot is busy for a second and you died.  Bummer about your bad luck.

Unless, of course, it's just going to turn someone into an infuse with a bar full of don't-use.

No, this whole thing sounds like a lead balloon of crap, and it's not flying.

Originally posted by kuno00

As a Pen & Paper roleplayer I've got to say a Shadowrun MMO (yes I know the PC game was crap) could, if executed correctly, be quite a hit...but that's just me.

 I agree with this wholeheartedly.  The way Shadowrun is designed is just screaming for MMO, I'm a little puzzled it hasn't been picked up with a major company.  Deckers on voice chat with the rest of the team, opening the way for them...Hmm.  Perhaps that's why it's not happening yet.  Would almost require a 2nd set of instances, that are interesting, for the deckers to handle.  Plus, mechanics waiting outside with the getaway car...

I'd still like to see it, in spite of some obstacles.  I still think it's the most versatile, vibrant game world out there that's adaptable to an MMO.  Rich backstory, for those who are into it, and xpacs could be different major cities?  Eh.  I'd preorder a collectors edition.

There is only one reason this game failed like it has.  Poor release.  The game itself ain't bad, it's the hugely staggered release and the companies they chose to release it.

If they'd gone with a company or two that would have treated it right, supported it, and had a worldwide release within a day or two, this game would be rocking.  I followed the game in production for years, but the botched release left me disinterested.  Acclaim was a piss-poor choice, so was the mess of companies picked to handle europe.

The game was good enough to make it.  The release wasn't.

Amusing that Mythic is inviting people after all their hard work driving as many as they could away from their games.

You sound like a Shadowbane player.

In game politics are great.  I loved getting hate tells after ganking someone.  Then they bring their friends and camp my spawn, AWESOME.  It's so much better when you can interact, when you make friends who drop what they're doing to get you uncamped, when you get people ticked enough TO camp, ahh the gold old days.

Sadly, the trend lately is towards being so politically correct and protecting the feelings of every player, that nobody gets really emotionally involved...just addicted, which isn't nearly as fulfilling or fun.

These days I wouldn't build a computer.  Look through Dell, Gateway, etc, and find a stripped down bare bones model.  Pick a good processor, cache, etc (dell has a 1.5 terrabite harddrive with a 1.56mb cache, might want to incorporate that).  Onboard sound, onboard graphics, or at the very least the cheapest options available for that.

Once you have the computer in your possession, build it up.  Add your own aftermarket graphics card (usually cheaper than having them install it, and more options), a budget sound card will still perform great unless you're into professionally mixing or something, and you can add on more memory after the fact too.  With RAM though, check first-if you can't get it cheaper aftermarket, just have them put it in when you buy it.

You'll get a measure of support from them, someone to call if there's an issue or what not, and still be able to save money and build it to your specifications.

Last time I checked, it would have saved me about 40 bucks to build the system from scratch myself.  I just bought a stripped down and built it up.  I plan to do so again next time.  Saves a bunch of hassle, still works great.

Good luck, whatever you choose.

I just don't understand why people who liked GW are interested in this game.

You'll have 4 slots on your skillbar.  Four.  That's all.  Out of the 10 slot bar, 5 are pre-assigned by your weapon, one is preset as your heal.  Where is the joy in customization?  Where are those great pvp days, working out just the right build?  Cookie cutter taken to a whole new leve.

GvG is promising to be...bad.  No dedicated healer class?  DPS (or spike) your target down, then next.  No way can they outheal themselves when under focus fire.

I was so enthused, yet the moreinformation  they release, the less I see any reason why ANYBODY would play it.

Originally posted by jezvin

This has nothing to do with wanting gear faster I think it would be more fun to spend 4 hours on an epic boss fight then 2 hours clearing a dungeon and then killing a boss in 15 mins.

 OMG, I would never attempt a raid against a 4 hour boss.  Seriously, you'd want that?  It would get the name of "the boss that never dies" if it had any difficulty to it whatsoever, other than the time it took to kill.

Tank has to go to the bathroom, group wipes.

Healer sneezes, group wipes.

Someone at the door, group wipes.

etc etc.  a 4 hour long fight that is difficult the whole way through is asking to never kill the boss.  SOMEONE is going to screw up, unless you're playing with all bots.

Shadowbane.  With some updates, of course (graphics, UI, etc).  The potential of the game was severely hindered by the mediocrity of the programming and a bad, crashing release.  By the time there was stability, the population was in it's death spiral.

Real, in game consequences for the pvp.  An in-game political structure like no other MMO before or since.  When having mouthy guild members can destroy your log-in point and vendors...your home if you will...you either get good, or pay the consequences.  No other game has forced people to back up what they say like Shadowbane did.

Unfortunately, it has a bad rap from the name, but a remake of it could be *the* pvp game, bar none.  If anyone cared to make it happen.

Edit:  Lots of mentions for Shadowbane in this thread.  Nice to see.