All these misspelled, whiney posts from people who got to lvl 8 make me laugh.

Take your favorite game in the genre and tell us how indicitive of the full experience the first 2 hours are.  The vast majority of mmos start with simple, fetch-quest style missions to get you accustomed to the controls and the combat.  

If you only played the non-instanced quests and the smaller delves, you missed the fundamental experience that will be Neverwinter.

Personally, I thought the best, most authentically D&D, aspects of this game hit near the cap of this beta weekend.  Vellock (or however you spell that Wolf Clan area) was phenominal, as was the Werewolf-hunt dungeon that opened up at lvl 37 (which was featured in a few alpha videos).  The dungeon, specifically, required teamwork, people playing their roles, and persistence which was rewarded with some cool unique loot (which was mostly lvl 42 and we couldn't use it, but still interesting). 

Now, granted there a million tweaks and balancing factors to be done in this game, the models leave much to be desired, and a truely D&D representative class selection is yet to be reached; but to shit on it after playing even the entirety of this demo version is to sell it and yourself short.

Permadeath is not a problem in this game, really, its probably easier than most mmos on death because you have free range to find a shrine (which are plentiful, to say the least) for 12 hours.  If you don't find one, in twelve hours, you turn to ash, and get another 12 hours.  This is online time only and as a ghost theres even an option to automatically return to the last shrine you activated once per 12 hours.... So really the only threat of permadeath is resurrecting with a low chance of sucess which can be avoided by plugging items (any) into the shrine.

All that being said, this game is extremely ordinary otherwise.  Fetch quests galore, repeating starts before even lvl 10, very stiff controls which harken back to 1990s PC rpg controls, and horrid glow effects in the graphics are supposed to hide the drab dungeons.  As much as I wanted to like it, or relive past Wizardry games, this game is more suited to the Korean cafe crowd than the west.

I threw a few bucks into Sevencore just to have a nice mount for my trial, but that ended quickly.  Uhg.

Really, that's about it.  Not to gloat as I have been relegated to playing almost exclusively betas and such for the last 3 months, but I think my thriftiness saved me a bunch this year.

Thankfully, I was dissuaded from getting D3 by testing over at a friend's house and remembering how the overly-simplistic UI and stiff control strategy annoyed me in the first game.  Even then I almost bought it digitally when I was bored, but thankfully I read more reviews and ran the other way.

In terms of non-mmos, I bought Hitman Absolution and Dishonored, both pretty short, but I'm satisfied with what I got and will replay them often.

Was Skyrim last year?  Well I guess the DLCs count and I got those.

My one gamble upcoming will be Neverwinter.  I love D&D settings so much that I will shell out $40-60 initially and probably plenty more as the game progresses.  Hopefully Cryptic will pull out another rare win like they did with STO.

I'd also agree with the OP on many aspects of FF, there's going to need to be some serious additions to make it a viable title in terms of serious gaming.  I got a key from a friend and I only used it for a coupele hours over 2 nights and I felt like there was nothing else to try or even attempt to master.  

Sure its got the visuals for a run through on a lark (and I do really love the look), but to keep anyone interested there has to be much, much more endearing to the player.  It hard not to think of it as a kind of indy version of planet side, minus the huge array of upgrades, implements, and vehicles.  Its fun, but so, so limited and I can only imagine how hacking and botting will impact the already fragile balance of power between class types.

As for "Dynamism", ooh look, the objective is on the other side of the room!  You really got us that time!  Pfft.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Part of the problem is that mobs in most MMOs suck. They spawn on their X, stand around waiting to get killed and have what seems like no more than the most basic AI possible. For TEN YEARS that has been the predominant mob experience.

Its been a lot longer than 10 years, 1997 Ultima Online, read about it!

I don't see how WO addresses any of this.  Its exactly that same model.  Even worse really in that even bosses are restricted to their spawn unlike many games that have roving bosses and incidentals that are completely random.

As to "Wizardry"'s post, wtf does FPS have to do with Permadeath?  PVP comes in the form of RPGs too, try the Original Darkfall, for instance.  Or even Rakion.  Those are PVP mmos.  FPS shooters might be call PVP, but with an eyeball and a gun, what else are you going to do but kill things?  Maybe you meant you like competition some times?

Anyway.

How hard is it to wrap our brains around the idea that you might lose your toon, but the majority of progress and all the really important stuff is at the account level?  Its not rocket science, you have characters that are your extention and they can be made rather easily, regardless of level if your grow at the account level is high enough.  I bet 10 minutes after I post this, the next guy will be in here crying about his potential losses and how unfair it will be... not conceiving of any of this aspect of WO.

@Kalafax Dont bullshit man, you have no idea how it works.  Its 12 hours, not twelve minutes.

Anyway, this wiki article is most assuredly a breach of NDA.

Originally posted by BigCountry

 on release people will not be pkn on low level toons I would think, not unless they just dont' care for progressing that character any further.

I will be. The rest of my guild wil be too. Frankly, criminal behavior is being set up as a sort of faction system with the criminal town still allowing access to grinding and all emenities of non-PKers.  In terms of progress, there is no problem with going into the normal town, I sneak into the normal area and turn in quests, get keys etc. constantly, there's no real incentive unless you're a priest or someone who can't avoid gaurds.  If someone attacks me in the town, I kill em.  Additionally, taking people's items, even if you didn't kill them and just happen upon a body, yields ridiculous amounts of gold, loot, and even quest items, but if you're a goody goody you get no bonuses other than being lackadaisical in the towns.  And its not like its hard to get drops, everything drops loot and most of it is junk.  Expect me to be on the wanted board day one.

After a week of playing in the CB, I can assure the Permadeath opponents that WO is not permadeath in the way most people are implying in this thread.  I dont know how much I am at liberty to say at this juncture, but be assured, this argument is more a philosophical one for future titles than an actual issue with this title.  

While permadeath is a possibility for your characters, the actual schema of the account/character relationship is different than in most mmos making the vast majority of the arguments here moot.  You can take risks with resurrection and the worst case scenario is permadeath resulting from various degrees of death in line with the Wizardry folklore.  Edit:  Its really no different than people who break items crafting, some of us have devastating losses because of the gamble, but anyone can avoid those risks altogether and play just fine.

Originally posted by SneakyRussian

 

 Repeat the same attack-50 billion times + shieldbash + some random "daily" skills

Literally the FIRST thing the video says is, "These are some of dozens of skills that will be availible at higher level."

And another sidenote; STO stumbled out the gate but has had incredible content updates from Cryptic for the past 2 years.  I dont play any sci-fi mmos full-time, but I hear the Romulan episode they just released is massive, fun, and nearly doubled the already substantial population.

Frankly, OP is guilty of simply regurgitating points from other sources with no new information.

I just want to point out a few things.  Nothing about the original series was particularly unique, they stole monsters and spell ideas from every RPG ever, classes were straight D&D typical, and the interface was draconian in the extreme. But you know what? It also carried with it a sense of accomplishment that none of its contemporaries could see with binoculars!  800+ hours and you might finish Knight of Diamonds, but you lost people along the way, good people, righteous people.  Call me an old fogey, but the Nintendo era Wizardry games took much more than a few hours to beat, had a similar brutal death schema, and this game delivers on nostaglia as well as challenge.

I am understanding of the OP's MMO-player perspective, but this isn't a Korean-made grinder or a Blizzard money grab; its Wizardry.  All games designated "mmos" dont have the same central goals or audiences.  This is table top gaming come alive, just like the original series: not every character will be made equal, not everyone is entitled to make it to the end, and its definately not Ultima Online.  My suggestion would be to stick to WOW, this game isn't for everyone. 

OP:  SO?

If youre going to post trolling bullshit like this, you might as well take your clown show over to /b/.

All this hoopla over $30?  lmao.

YOUR Dream MMO, people.

Half of the posters rationalize why its not possible, others whine about they wouldnt pay that much for any current title...

Of course you should pay $30 to play the best version of your favorite sub-genre of mmo, and yet people say no?  Hell, I bet half of the people on this forum pay for internet just to game anyway.  Perspective.

Edit: Oh, and just to make a point, I'd pay $30/mo to play some old games, full with the populations and support from their heyday.

Originally posted by ignore_me

I do think that the idea of having such a large portion of the game be about player made content is a great idea...

I just wish they could also have an in-depth character building process that flows out to the UI as well (character building that is varied and complex and having that extend to abilities that the player can tailor).

Well, taking my cues from what Cryptic has done with STO, Foundry missions are not a large portion of the game at all, but rather a fun and interesting aside from a standard quest progression aswell as a huge draw for many would be writers, designers, and artists. D&D's modules system of short, independant adventures feeds into this sort of model. We're not talking about a player controlled environment here, if it emulates the STO foundry it will be instance-based and will not (cannot) offer unique rewards.  Of course endgame user content could open up new doors, but frankly the STO Foundry offers alternatives to the standard game progression by giving you the option to delve into player content; it doesnt drive the narrative.

As for in depth character creation; its D&D.  Hopefully they just don't go the weird DDO route and oversimplify Prestige classes while still leaving new players completely lost. DDO wasted a lot of people's time building characters they had fun grinding but then became completely worthless at endgame.  All I can say is, find a build before you get too into it.

The War Z's cash shop is not even close to a pay to win scenario.  Its quite effectual and yeilds convienence not an unfair advantage.

The true definition of a pay to win gamebreaker seems lost on some people so I'll just point out that paying for uber gear or exclusive items really defines a problematic cash shop.  The fact that someone can buy health for real money constitutes that: yes, the player with more resources will win.  In a battle; if a person willingingly pays the price for something you too might have already obtained by ingame or other means like in TWZ, all is fair.  

TMZ is not a pay-to-win scenario; preparation or grinding ingame can achieve the same effect that a good cash shop does, save a few treats here and there like cosmetics or other truely "extra" bits.  So much in TWZ is about being at the right time and place anyway that bitching about a pure resource cash shop is akin to claiming  being shot from behind is "no fair".

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Yes. PC gaming is dying.

The poster who said "theyhave been saying it for decades" makes my head hurt... The apex of PC gaming was the mid to late 1990s and (honestly) its been going downhill since then. 

@Saint  -Seriously?  You put the pinnicle of gaming before the latter EQ explosion and the rise of WOW, Star Craft, and PC shooters?  Seriously? PC gaming was teenagers and nerds before 2003, remember that?  Wow literally brought gaming to the masses.  I remember whole families, 3 generations no less, going buck wild by the time cataclysm came out and kids were keeling over dead in Star Craft laden cafes. (I'm no wow fanboy, either, its just the facts)

Anyway, to the OP's point; corporate game manufacturers like to keep us upgrading and so they diversify the output of games they hype so you have to spend money.  That's it.  Its a matter of marketing that has you drooling over exclusive titles. Gamers themselves would take over development if PC platform markets were phased out anyway, but again, thats's not the goal of those making the decisions.  They just want your money and they know the psychology of the grass is always greener.

Eberron needs cash patches or subscription to open content though, that means paying out just to get to the Forgotten realms part, which also means playing the horrible content from 2006.

This is 3 months before the next version of D&D hits us, Turbine has been rushing out patches to try and counter the upcoming exodus.  Don't fall for it, its still an extremely old game engine.