|378 posts found|
I just realized, I don't like MMORPGs any more!
The Pub at MMORPG.COM « General Discussion
3/05/13 9:45:59 PM
Well the genere is "dead" but its growing. More people are picking up mmorpgs than did years ago...it is a growing genere.
This tells me that a LOT of players who dont like RPG games are jumping in for persistant progression and social aspects of the games they typically play.
What this means is to lure in the 75% of mmorpg players who hate RPG games they will continue to water down RPG aspects and appeal to short term action with limited progression...as these player just want to be the best as fast as possible. To accomplish this, they must remove a deep progression system, water down classes, and provide super easy (though flashy) gimmicks to get these people into the game fast, get them to endgame fast, and get them to a position where they think they are really good at the game, even if they lack a pulse and even a shred of common sense.
And this my friends is mmropgs of today...exactly this. No risks, you cant lose anything, you can screw anything up, just close your eyes and follow the NPC trail to the end, where youll preform just as good as anyone else there.
So some people cant figure out why they cant stay attached to a game where theres no effort needed to progress, where theres no choices, no mistakes, nothing at risk for doing anything...even pvp?
Well the answer is that back during 1996-2004 period, there were not a whole lot of mmorpg players. Most of us had come from offline single player RPG games. We wanted a game you could sink your teeth into, where the gloring of being max level wasnt guranteed or easy...for those who got there, it was an accomplishment, and you grew very attached to the game and character in the process.
Now there is none of that, its all done for you. Sure the games look better, has more features, has more marketing hype and the euphoric prelaunch-first 3 weeks period where its "the best game ever all other games are going to shut down because this game is so fantasic and your really stupid if your not playing and enjoying this game im going to every forum to tell everyone this" moments...if you can remember older games were much more difficult to get into, but once you did it was that euphoric period towards the end and it lasted much longer.
I think two things NEED to happen with these games. Developers need to ditch the mmorpg tag. Half these games are fantasy action games. While some are fun, they just lack most things that make a good RPG...well a good RPG.
We need developers, the indy ones, to top rushing into the endzone, always biting off more than they can chew, creating a general feeling that "those types" of games suck..which is whats happening. You say sandbox or full loot and most think a really crappy game thats alpha test quality 4 years down the road with a broke 5 man team stuck in a situation where the game will never get better. All these guys are really doing is rushing in on the common complaints from RPG players.
And dont get me wrong, RPG players that i speak of can have fun in shallow games, and often do. Just there needs to be someone out there that can make a decent buck on a well made game, that appeals to us...rather than the crowd everyone else is trying to go after...the ones i decribe above. Its turing the genere into a one trick pony where all they can do is over hype the game and move on.
That blogpost regarding itemization is up.
In a nut shell
Legendaries are losing the bottom 75% of their roll range. So a legendary that now has a range of rolling 1-100 on a stat will now have a chance to roll 75-100, eliminating those "wtf" bad legendaries...which now is about 99% of them.
Clutter rares are going to be reduced, not sure if they are getting the same legendary treatment, but, rares will be rare, and good.
They are keeping the AH but want to make the focus of gearing yourself mob found items. In all reality, if they got rid of the bottom level rolls like they suggested, removed bad stat pairings that no one would ever use, and making rares decent and legendaries...well legendary...peole wouldnt need to use the AH, however those short on time, or without alts, might still use it...
I actually like playing the AH, not RMAH (too lazy to get authenticator) but i see this as effectivly killing it off, which...fine with me just something to do between runs tbh.
Also talk of the highest rolls comming off the higher level mobs, not sure if that means youll be getting the best drops off elites and bosses rather than white mobs, or if that refers to inferno having the better drops.
This all isnt in the next patch, but i believe mob density is, which will add some variety to where people farm, and tbh, high mob density is a blast in this game.
It seems they are slow to move but seem to be headed in the right direction.
So is this a full on gank and grief festival?
General Discussion « Darkfall: Unholy Wars
3/05/13 5:17:11 PM
Originally posted by aWRAY
Not sure how someone spends 4 years looking for a sandbox, then rage quits when he loses his cloth gear and near dead goblin axe...all of which took him an amazing amount of time to aquire.
Really this guy deserves a really dumbed down themepark...and will probably stuggle at it.
So is this a full on gank and grief festival?
General Discussion « Darkfall: Unholy Wars
3/05/13 5:13:47 PM
Originally posted by HappyFunBall
Yea stick with themeparks.
I could try to explain how it works, since it seems you read a post back in 2008 about what a full loot game was like and have based your opinion on full loot games ever since, mixing what was said in that lone post with the only thing you do seem to know about mmorpgs, and thats themepark mechanics.
See, your not farming for two weeks to get blue and purple raid gear thats a bitch to get, then losing it to a level 1 billion player (no levels) crying a bunch then rage quitting, though i think if you set foot in DF something very similar would happen to you.
Gear is easy to obtain, it is lost one way or another, it will break (no repair for gear) on pve fights, or will get looted.
Since gear is easy to obtain, most people wont take your actual gear, just consumable and any material gained while farming that will suit their needs, the rest rots on your tombstone for you or a passer-by-er to take.
The real good gear, your going to use for clan wars, and your clan will probably be the reason you have the gear to begin with.
What this all does is it changes how people should act in game, and how mundane tasks are treated...which to many provides excitement. Your themepark you hop from resource node to node without a care, its boring, you get your highe end loot and its forever there, pvp is boring since you just reappear as is in 30 seconds and your back in the fight...which relegates pvp to either numbers or who mashes the buttons the best.
For someone like me, i just dont understand you themepark pvpers, who are proclaimed to be hardcore because you queue all day in pvp...while you wont touch a game with any form of pvp risk
Yes the game is full of gankers, you will only get griefed if you are incredibly stupid and refuse to change your habits, and rightfully so. People with half a brain will bank their gear every 20min where you would keep that stuff on you for two weeks, guranteeing you lose it all. Some one with an IQ greather than that of a houseplant will have situational awareness...where are there, where are player hubs, where are hostile clans and players, where are friendly clans...then base what they do off that knowledge. Want to farm near those mob spawns by that enemy clan? better bring some friends... want to farm something in an unknown area...well do a lap around the area...see whos around.
Worst case scenario you man up, learn to play, and deal with loss like a champ, rather than cry about those worhtless pixles you lost. The worst thing about death in DF isnt losing your gear, its the fact that someone beat you...really just like any other pvp game.
Oh, and btw, great video and anlysis, i was actually expecting a snarky D3 suck response...rare to see actual discussion outside of the game.
Originally posted by nbtscan
Just go to the D3 forums and click the forums, it should be displayed on the active threads list.
All this is, is a really detailed analysis of whats wrong with D3, but not in the drooling mouthbreather typical trolling fashion.
Its actually quite good. It was good enough, and sane enough of a post to get a game developer, not a moderator, to respond in the thread with a fairly detailed response.
The jist of his reponse is basically they are working on ways to liven up build diversity, which imo, is never something ARPG games do well since the most efficiant build will be the only one anyone uses, and there are a few varying builds you see around that work just fine. Also mentioned was itemization.
This is where the post shines imo. The guy broke down what exactly is wrong with D3 gear, what stats are important, and why so much gear is worthless despite perhaps being good gear. The response was mostly they are working on cool gear effects, and he agrees that the way items are valued are based on a few stats that everyone needs, which only appear on certain items. This means that aside from your classes main stat, the rest of the gears stats is pretty much interchangable granted a few class specific acceptable gear stats.
In all honesty, i do think the developers see theres issues, and i dont think they would ever quickly fix something without really thinking it through then fully testing them extensivly. Which is why im sure the issues stated havent really been addressed other than what appear to be easy fixes.
I wish it wasnt this way, but its really looking like its going to be like D2 was, an ok game that became a legend years later due to a fantastic expansion. Still has hands down the best combat and combat mechanics, and the best multiplayer, which is why i keep comming back to it over some of the other games.
Originally posted by Aerowyn
You have to like and understand ARPG games to even have a fraction of appreciation for their combat, D3 included. I like it because well...i liked it ages ago when point to move and point to attack was acceptable. Nostalgia i guess. I would never compare a true ARPG to a mmorpg, however my point was beyond combat. true APRPG combat is more about a massive and chaotic battle with a screen full of mobs and more a visual thing than a mechanical, something vastly different from most mmorpgs where you watch hotbars most of the time.
I can clearly see this game has action based combat, not diablo style arpg combat.
I appeciate the reponses. Wasnt aware they were just doing weekends and restricted testing. IMO would be impossible to tell if the game follows the same type of loot and dungeon crawling mechanics of an ARPG only with action combat.
One thing perhaps you guys can explain for me however. Does the game toss hordes of mobs at you while you stomp them all in a glorious and chaotic full screen battle...something that the ARPG's, or at least the good ones do so well...or is it presented mmorpg style where you have controlled and small encounters with mobs.
I dont think the game would ever be considerd an ARPG type game without this.
Really i dont care if its not an ARPG, if its just a dungeon crawling RPG with action combat. However i think the thought of a game like this with ARPG qualities is something...well that hasnt been done...which is why i started this thread.
The rest, as far as itemization and how the endgame works, obviously wont be known for a while.
Player Models and Character Creation Need To Be Improved!
General Discussion « Darkfall: Unholy Wars
3/04/13 10:45:33 PM
I agree, it gives the game kind of a cheap and hastily made appearance.
There are screen shots of the character models they made in 2010 for this game, they look fantastic, and of high quality. From what i can understand from the developer posts, they kind of put the current filler character models in just to get the game more launch ready a while ago, my assumption is they didnt see enough time to make armor across them all. So those have to wait.
They are typically slow with adding such stuff...so to expect new character models would probably be determined on how popular the game becomes when it launches. I could guess a decent launch, with steams help, would probably give them the money to hire more people and get non essential game items like those nice character models in game.
In all honestly though, they have made a lot more progress in beta than i would expect from these guys, given ive been dealing with them since 2008.
Yeah i know theres a few people who think this is all retarded to even want...however, it adds game diversity, which is always a good thing, right now with armor...everyones the same character granted they have the same gear on as you. Which imo, isnt a good thing for a mmorpg...dont care how pvp focused it is.
Also ill hint that theres more vital things that need to be put in game at this point, so i can understand why this isnt a priority now.
My hope is that they dont get into a situation where their investors force a launch...i think thats basically what happend in november/december and they were granted funding to further develop past the origional timeframe they were given to produce results. Question is...how much time did they get? Realistically, i see a decent launch late spring early summer, and a fully finished ready to launch and start working on expansion next winter/spring. I wouldnt put this game on steam untill at least late fall, unless they have way more done than they are showing us.
Even if it launched today as is, in debug mode, sadly it still has the best combat/gameplay, most stable client, and is the smoothest preforming game of its type, and thats really sad since most of its competition was been launched since 2010 and has made zero improvements in that time frame. So if your into full loot pvp focused sandboxes, this is your only decent game to choose from.
Edit: i just want to make clear, the game isnt in a shoddy incomplete state. Its missing more non vital "things" than "things" that are going to make the game incomplete. Few more game "things" put in and the game is done, but missing "things" that would add some quality and asthetics. I think they should hold out untill its all put toghether and do a proper, finished produc launch, rather than a work in progress launch, even if whats missing isnt a huge deal.
Darkfall UW Does Not Have Good Gameplay?
General Discussion « Darkfall: Unholy Wars
3/04/13 10:34:24 PM
Originally posted by Imperator101
Yes you basically got it right, only leveling the skills wont make them look different, just preform better.
Old darkfall had hundreds of skills, most were reskins within a different school of magic. Many were all but useless, and a lot were buffs, very short term buffs.
New system has a focus more on removing the old soldier of one...where in 1.0 everyone was a light armor wearing, with heavy armor fillers, that wielded a great sword, and used roughly the same combat approach.
It was very difficult, if not impossible under to old system to compete without 3rd party software to auto hotkey and macro, given a huge part of darkfall combat, and still is, your ability to pull a staff out, use magic, pull a bow out, shoot arrows, then pull a melee weapon out and start whacking people...all within the same encounter, often very quickly.
New system takes out a lot of the need to macro things like pulling out a weapon, then switching your hotbar, then loading a skill. All of which in 1.0 was nearly impossible to do on your own in combat, specifically if you were fighting players.
The skill reduction is really for magic and buffs. Archery which only had one skill to disable the use of a shield now has proper skills. Melee which had the same few skills but for each seperate weapon, which made using off weapons difficult without said 3rd party software, now has no skills, but, you get melee skills within your role now.
So in a nut shell...magic loses several hundred skills, archery gains skills, melee gains a more common sense skill system.
Before if you wanted a dash, you had to pull out your staff, have magic leveled to where you got a skill that had pushback/knockup, then cast it on the ground in front of you just right to launch you in the air. Now theres a dash.
Still the bread and butter of combat is going to be melee weapon swings and arrow shots, and cheap to use magic attacks, only now depending on your role. Also now armor actually does something, where in 1.0 most armor types were useless and everyone just commingled the good light armor and enchanted heavy armor for helmets ect. Which is good.
So in short, yes the game plays like a skyrim style game, only to use magic you need to stop what your doing switch into mage, pick your schools and skills, and put on mage gear. I almost want to say it mixes that kind of combat with a Guild Wars style "choose your skills" only its not skills you choose but what type of character you want to be. You level up and progress the skills, the skills base school, and your hard statistics. All of which makes you preform better, given your hard stats carry over no matter what school you are.
It was a great game during launch when t1-2 were packed, lots of people to PQ with, lots of people in battlegounds.
Once t3 hit, everyone figured out to rvr grind, it stopped being a pvp game and started being a base flipping rvr grind, that was what killed it...once every warband i was in for r3 said "no dont encounter them were going to this map instead"
when rvr did happen, it just wasnt designed with any thought. the bases (forgive me ive forgotton what they were called, little castles or whatever) were just choke points that make rvr a bore for anyone but mages. Classes were not very balanced either and you got maguses getting shunned fround groups and crappy dps and not really worth having. Game became boring like this.
When i returned everything had changed. This wasnt too long after launch. Everything between t1 and t3 was a ghost town, people ignored PQ, people who were t4 complained it wasnt fun or well planned out. battleground were harder to find.
went back again when t1 went free...remember how fun it was i stopped by, it was active but so...i dunno...shallow in what i could do, and i knew what lay ahead if i decide to subscribe. Made a free account, got maxed, couldnt figure out how i ever thought two zerg standoffs where brave people got picked off and the front lines never moved much was fun.
My last and final stop into the game, and its pretty much a dead game. T1 was dead aside from what looked like afk renown farmers. Not a single person between. Chat silent, aside from gold farmers. Forums are the same 5-10 people complaining, or goodbye threads. Nothing...i mean nothing...has changed since launch. No content revisions, no real class balancing, not a single attempt to fix and revive.
Hell they havent even botherd to try to make the game f2p in some way.
From wow killer to dead...what a trip. I dont advocate killing off a game ever. or giving up and going all f2p...but...these guys are not even trying to earn their subscriptions....put this one out of its misery...or ATTEMPT to earn the $15 a month from your players.
Sadly the time to fix and revive ended i think back in 2009, perhaps 2010 at the latest. They spend 2008-2013 doing...????...to fix the game, bring back players, earn their subscriptions.
Hell Darkfall had less players, and a smaller, less talented development team...was able to come out with DF:UW in that timeframe, and they are SLUGS with progress. Even with the origional DF they at least slapped together a pve expansion and added sea towers for added pvp....what has this game, made by a known game studio, backed by a financial giant done in that time? Other than making t1 an unlimited trial?
also appears a total lack of interest in the game lol
Im not diging this force new trend from some people that mobile gaming is the next big thing.
We use mobile devices because, well people are on the go. Then you get this idea that they are going to have time to dig into a game for more than 5-10min (which btw all the popular mobile games cater to)
This idea that we are going to get people playing mobil games for any longer than a brief stint is ridiculous. I game over watching tv, if im going to game its going to be in comfort not on public transportation, in a cab, on lunch, ect. I would rather sit in my comfy chair, with my nice desk, a cool beverage next to me, and game for a few hours.
Im not going to want to pull out my 5inch screen and get treated to an akward sit while playing for a few.
As far as facebook is concerned yeah its a big market segment of non gamers/quasi gamers who sit at the computer all day looking at what other people like...could be tapped into and get these semi-computer junkies into full fledged mmo fiends...but even then client base mmorpgs are just better than the goofy web browser games.
In short, i hate when "industry thinkers" try to push their half asses vision as to what the future will be. Like with my tv example, sure people watch tv on moblie devices when they can, but all would prefer to watch something they really enjoy in comfort on nice technology made for viewing...not some cellphone.
AV makes macroing impossible for gains. RIP macroing toons.
General Discussion « Darkfall: Unholy Wars
3/03/13 9:44:30 PM
Originally posted by Greymoor
What i would like is for skills to be more of a spammy, fast casting, affair. I want skill use sped up, not the twitch nature of the game sped up.
Of course it would need to be balanced for such a thing.
Right now you simply cant spam skills, or even use some skills at all in combat as character resources drain very fast in doing so. This slows combat.
IMO i would like to see two skills per role as somewhat spammible. A few on cooldowns with very quick cast times, but still having cast times. Then a few top end ultimate skills with cool downs and longer cast times.
The actual skill use should be a very active part of the game and be done with somewhat of an action flair to it. Right now skills are seldom used and most people just standard attack as a means to fighting.
But again, the current system is FAR better than the old version. Any new player wont notice the difference for better or worse, and were left with the vets who are super bitter over losing their edge and their 1990's style combat that was so "awesom" 500-1000 people chose to stay...which is beyond ridiculous that they are making the big mess that they are in order to perserve DF as a dead game.
Was thinking of giving the game a second go
General Discussion « Star Wars: The Old Republic
3/03/13 9:28:27 PM
Only thing stopping me, well, i bought the game, and i think the digital collectors, not the big one though.
So if i remember correctly my investment in the games "all in the past" and i can log on as a free player whos never paid a dime, meaning all slots are locked since i have more than the two they allow, as well as all my hotbars are not usable right?
See this is what Tera did right. Im a founder there. I have all slots unlocked, no queues (not that thats an issue) oh and they tossed me some cash shop coin. See they remember i paid them once for the game.
SWTOR? Tough luck, its a free game now and you need to pay us...again...for the basic game...again.
This turns me off. I would prefer to jump in on a new character, see if the game sparks my interest. Not going to deal with a company that cant remember whos paid them and who hasnt.
I dunno, it just doesnt feel right.
Anyway...did they pull their heads out of their asses and allow past paying players who...you know...bought the game...to play the basics for free...im not asking for all the new crap they developed for the f2p...just the basics. full character slots full hot bars...cant think of anything else they restricted since last time i was on it was very brief and most my time spent figuring out new names for old characters that had to be renamed...on some strange and dead server too...man i was on fatman that server was the highest activity server in game, even during the decline. WTF happend?
Well....was only a matter of time (incoming "lettuce")
General Discussion « PlanetSide 2
3/03/13 8:09:11 PM
I would come back for some of the ps1 systems. Everything i hear about what PS1 did made the game sound a lot more complex than PS2.
PS2 was fantastic as a "holy crap theres a lot of stuff going on" type of game. There was zero depth to anything that was done however...and eventually it got boring and stale. You could tell exactly how every base fight was going to go, ever time.
Flipping a base in PS1 sound a lot more tactical and engaging than it is in PS2.
However, not sure it will fix the overal lack of a meta game, lack of any progression and feeling of accomplishment...and in the end still be that free shooter game that when the urge strikes i may fire up.
Its disgusting. Just like it was disgusting in tera. You over sexualize each and every character model...then toss in a 12 year old into the mix and sexualize them...oops...lets put some bunny ears on that and call it a fantasy alien race of adults right?
I cant belive people are upset about this either...actuall...i can now that i think about it...some sick people in this world out there.
SOE going console only!(At first)
The Pub at MMORPG.COM « General Discussion
3/03/13 10:41:47 AM
Did anyone really believe that SOE could produce a decent mmorpg?
So let them make EQnext for the PS4, they can do one development run on it and let it be, rather than make a mmorpg that everyones going to bitch and moan about in a month and force them to spend years trying to fix it, resulting still in a dead game after all that time and effort is put forth.
Ill be honest, its amazing after the last few years that any company would spend big money making a mmorpg. mmorpg gamers dont know what the hell they want. They want something different and when they get it they shun it for being different. They all flock to the same games that are recycled and then hate them a month later. So make a game that sells a few hundred thousand or a million on launch and then suck away money and resources over the next 5 years trying to save the game? Or just pump out one version on PS4 and move on? Both will probably sell the same tbh, only the PS4 people will buy it and move on as will their developers...end of story...cheaper to make and less permanant flak from the pc community.
Im sure there will be a PC version though.
Well the one guild thats doing it EVERYWHERE....is now spawning lots of other guilds doing it thinking that its what the discusion threads are for. Which is why i brought it up.
Give it a few months and youll have nothing but guild spam on these forums.
Lets stop it before it comes to that...put guild advertisements in their own subsections so people who want to use a 3rd party site to find a guild can do it properly. Leave general discussion to discussions about the game.
Originally posted by majinant
No...its not a mmofps.
Its a FPS with a multiplayer mode. Big difference. Im assuming that means its like any other FPS with a deathmatch/CTF mode. Nothing i was able to find suggest otherwise. Which is dissapointing...since its here listed on a site for mmoRPG's and its not either a mmo nor a FPS...let a lone a RPG.
Also its only for xbox and ps3...which means even if i was interested in it i would be avoiding it, due to a lack in consol possesion.
Again...why is this game even here? They got FPSguru for these types of games and i go there when im in the mood for a PC FPS...what is mmorpg.com the dumpster now for any and all games?
Ok i mean i get it, you want to expand the site beyond what its URL and make up suggests...thats fine....how about putting a system in to notify us which games are what type of game? i mean its only been like 4 years since this has been happening already? So hard to add a color or text abbreviation to the game list to let us know that the game is a consol only FPS? or MOBA? or browser game? Seriously...cant be that hard. Would take no more than a day to do if you put all your moderators and commentators on the task of sorting the game list...or even put a "define this game" vote thing and let us do it. Sick of clicking on new games only to find its not applicable to my interestes.
Havent been able to find this out on the official site.
Got into the early rounds and missed the first, second i skilled because the download was going crazy slow.
Just havent been able to find a beta schedule. Id like to at least test it for a round before launch. Seems my issue is i figure out the beta is happening right before its over, which might explain the download slowness.
Oh and my TV is a glorified dust accumulator...curious if there is any intergrations with perhaps viewing the show online. I really...i mean really...hate just about all TV programming...but if i dig the game i might want to keep up on the show...if it isnt super cheesey and lame at least...which it doesn have the potenial to be i guess.