Originally posted by kyte317

Kyte, Your post is awesome. Thank you for sharing, I appreciate your thoughtful voice.  I'm agree with you.

Please, continue to post.

no sarcasm intended, i think it sounds like it is, but it isn't.

It would be a game designed around the New Motion Controllers for the PS3 and the Natal. Follow the persons movements directly like on screen. It would be just like life. You pick up a sword, and whack someone with it, it matters where you hit them, how strong you hit, what armor they are wearing, and if you even hit them at all.

That is the closest to a levelless, classless, skill-basedless game I can think of. Its also the type of game i want!

Very good points. Its too bad WoW is so successful. B/c of it, it will be hard to make games where 'levels' are not the focus.

I like your idea, and I think you're right on.

Thanks to the Motion controllers and the natal, debuted at E3, I think you'll see in some near future the inclusion of these devices in a MMO setting. Your character could tie movements, individualized to specific spells and combat manuvers, where where you HIT makes the difference. YOu could have specific gesutres that have to be learned and mastered in the correct fashion to produce spells. The limits are endless.

tw!

If i just read an update about "milk" and animals being "milked" then SOE / SWG has some real serious issues to work out. They should question why they are even bothering with waking up in the morning: "Honey, gotta go, that virtual mob milking quests/ collection really needs some work!"

WTF happened to SWG??!?!?!?!

So how does this all relate to MMOs????

Healthcare in MMOs are all provided for free from the "state." Orcs have their healing shamans, Humans their Priests, etc. THIS is something we DEMAND in our games. Could you imagine not being able to be rez'd b/c you died without any cash on you? Perhaps you just spent all your gold on that sweet new glowy sword and whooops, you happen to fall off the roof of a house that you were showing the adoring masses your sword to. Oh NOES! DEAD. However, there is the ability to bring you back, too bad you're broke and poor as hell. Oh well, kiss that guy goodbye.

Nope instead for a MINIMUM cost, or no cost at all, the ruling forces of the game have instituted a system that EVERYONE can enjoy. Instead of rotting on the cobblestones you're given a new life, new reconstructed body, hell, they even scrape your corpse off the streets, don't pilfer any of your sweet loots and give it all back to you.

Imagine the outrage if you were treated the same way in the game as you are in American Health care.

Just to point out:  ANY time you tax someone or give tax breaks, whether it is the poor, rich, middle class, whatever, you are REDISTRIBUTING money. Calling obama a socialist b/c he wants to RECIND the Bush tax cuts for the top 1.5% of america is just plain idiotic. There are so many facts, and we only choose to look at a few. Might wanna rethink your argument.

wow, it is clear you didn't even read my post.

Let me just say, I KNOW obama does not want Universal Healthcare, but his plan is the closest of the candidates for Pres. out there.

Most, if not ALL MMO games have a Universal Healthcare component built into them. You get sick, die, fall unconscious, get poisoned, ailed in any way, and there is a robust system that is free to the player. POOF!! You're back on your feet, thanks to the state! Hibernia in Daoc had Healers scattered about their lands, presumibly on the King's dime. Sure, there is a small fee to keep people from abusing the system, but nothing that even the lowest couldn't afford. Heck, there was even a sliding scale on cost based on your wealth (level).

In wow there was no fee at all!! Just, Hey, we saved your soul, go back and get your body! Don't worry, Azeroth has taken care of the expense.

Do you think these life saving infrastructures are supplied by a third party coperation? I never saw a corperate logo on my healer.

When we're in the field and that nasty gobbie poked me with his poisoned stick, and languishing i call out for help. Most likely a wandering samarian will apply some salve, and without a second thought move on. Isn't this type of behavior what we all want and demand in our virtual lives? Why do we settle for companies raping our wallets, good samaritans don't exist,, or if they do, they send you a bill for $102k just to heal a wound.

So, logically, i see that if you play MMO's you can IDENTIFY with Universal Healthcare, and therefor would want to move our REAL lives into the same direction, and therefor would choose to vote obama; if only because his Health Care plan is step in the right direction.

Yes yes yes, i know, this is mostly in jest, but not totally. NO, i'm not for killing people just b/c i do it in game. No, i don't want to slaughter thousands of woodland creatures just to get better at it.

I'm merly commentting on how it is a social structure built into games that we don't even question or second guess. Yet it is something we DEMAND in game, but seem not to in RL.

I feel you pain, and have felt very much the same for a long time. I started playing mmo's with EQ, and avidly followed the new games, Daoc, EQ2, shadowbane, even wow and vanguard. with the latter two there just want't the magisty or the immersion that i felt with EQ and DAoC.  I'm no longer IMMERSED in the worlds as they are just crappy small single serving easy games. What i lOVE about EQ and DAoC is that each mob you kill is an actual event. I log into wow and kill 20000 mbos in a few minutes and i have no downtime. There was strategy in EQ. You had to be careful in DAoC. Wow, i can just runaround and kill stuff without a pause or worry, just rinse and repeat.

What it comes down to is that i agree with you. Well said. There is so much i feel missing from modern mmos that i'm to the point where i don't even buy the new games anymore, which is HUGE as i've played practically all the notable ones and bought them in the past.  /sigh.

On the upside, Mabinogi has TOTALLY engaged me, and it is a style i'm not particularly drawn to. Its free, might want to check it out. Great community, and a skill based system! NO CLASSES!!!!!!

As i'm SURE it has been pointed out.

People need to ACCEPT WoW  is the best.

EXCEPT is not the word you want to use.

Just had to point that out for the sake of the English language.

i never do. I read the highlight: kill 20 of "x"

NO reason to do anything else, it is just a waste of time.

Your poll questions suck. Add some more options. Like

I don't read the quest text.

Only when it is REQUIRED by the quests to do so.

etc...

direct answer to the topic's question:    No.

Originally posted by lkavadas

So blood and guts and decapitation and dismemberment are all fine and dandy but some titties are petition worthy?

Sorry, I just love bringing up that hypocrisy.  It's very satisfying.

Why complain about some natural nudity? I'm sure everyone sees their own selves everyday what is wrong with some pixlated nipples? I'm hard pressed to understand how nudity is worse than decapitation, goring, murder, and premature death.

Ever consider that it comes down to the fact that MOST people do not have enough money to shell out the ridiculous cost of having every game, console, pc rig, that exists out there? I imagine that most "elitism" that you talk about is more of a justification for the games that they did spend their money on. Or someone's way of giving their review to the internet about their purchases.

i especially think that there is a certain level of information gathering that happens when people read other's comments about certain games and consoles. If there is a lot of people claiming that their game, console, rig, is soo much better than others it makes a consumer who has limited funds consider it more of an option.

Originally posted by bobbler

 

 

Now if you could prove me wrong do it. I can only forsee these things happening when we have 30ghz processors and diamond semi conductors.

Originally posted by BigPeeler

True roleplaying is the key. Weather that effects everything from combat, to creature spawn, to crop harvests. Day-to-night cycles that can be the difference between "lets venture into this massive creepy swampland" or "maybe we should just camp here tonight and head in at dawn". Keeping yourself fed and nourished so you have the strength to wipe out that camp of Orc's who have been causing the decrease in animal havests for the nearby town... I could go on and on...

MEANINGFUL PVP!!!

 Everything from murduring helpless merchant players along trade routes for goods and gold, to entire nations colliding for complete dominance. Of course there would be consequence for evil-doers as well. Player controlled policing factions could serve on collecting bounties over the heads of murderers and the such. An other side of the coin would be "assassins for hire"... It's really up to the community!

I wanted to point out how these two segments of the Original post really jumped out to me. I know that vanguard originally planned on having realistic weather and enviromental effects, but that it fell through the cracks. I like how your idea with the waiting for dawn really reminded me of Kithikor Forest (i think that was the eq zone) where at night it was filled with freaky difficult undead, but during the day it was safe for lower level travelers.

I like how you use a few examples to really highlight your point, and it only takes a moment or two of thinking to see that there are multiple desires and systems that would need to be in place for that scenario to happen; all of which can only add to the mmo experience.

I can't agree with you more. Meaningful pvp is crucial. Again your examples are point-on. /agree

Originally posted by bobbler

 

 

well then maybe he shouldn't ask for thoughts or opinions if he doesn't want criticism, anyways most of that crap you listed will not happen anytime soon and will most likely never happen, and why should i list ideas thats would obviously not happen its just a waste of time.

constructive criticism is great. Criticism to tear down is just... well, not good.

thoughts and opinions are well and good, but it very annoying to see threads like this where people constantly begin with negatives.

If you never think of something you want, you'll never get it. I list those things i want because whether they happen tomorrow, a year from now, five years from now, or even ten, i'll be happy. How can you fault someone for wanting something better, and then making that hope known? If that never happened we'd all be in caves grunting at each other. It takes people willing to imagine something better and then making those ideas known and then making them into a reality.

People that just tear down ideas requires more people to be more outspoken for what they hope for in a better game, life, etc.

I can't help myself b/c i can't for the life of me see any positive side to your comments, but

bobbler = hater  

and you've proved it with your last post. I even highlighted all your negative statements to make it clearer to you.

Originally posted by bobbler

 

 

i did not miss any point you tried to put out. can you explain to me how you would code a monster spawn to be completly random and not set to a certain parameter when programming is all about parameters, there will be certain fallacies in the system and certain areas would have to be prevelent with the type of mobs needed unless you just make everything mixed, which would lead to the question of how would the newer people start out when the most destructful monster would be mixed in with the cute little rabbits they need? also you obviously didnt say they wouldn't drop good stuff, i did and no where did i say you did. it was an inference on the system you put forth based on what i know. I will now explain what i said because you can't understand - if you make monsters so hard to where groups need to hunt them down and kill them at these so called "random locations" then many people will be on the hunt for them causing a constant lack of the monsters ( this is where instancing comes inhand which is currently in effect in a lot of games). now the reason why they would want to kill these mobs is for the loot or some type of reward amirite? ( and that is what would cause the hunt for them)

Bobbler = Hater

I say this simply because you are not even pointing out all the good things that you might agree with. Are you mad that you didn't think of a mmo like this first? and are therefor reduced to knocking someones else's interesting idea?   I really would like to see some sort of reinforcement of good ideas instead of everyone just saying how what someone wants in a mmo is not feasible.

To the OP, i really liked your ideas a lot. I think that they address most of my desires from modern mmos. If you have ever read the Otherland series my thinking for mmos falls right in line with Middle Kingdom (i think, Middle something).

Top 5 to see in a "modern" mmo:

5, realistic spawns -> If i go out into the woods there are all sorts of creatures. If some adverturer or person begins killing them all, then they won't be in those woods anymore. Spawning is a ridiculous concept. Rather there should be an influx of something else. If you kill all the wolves the deer overpopulate, and if you kill all the deer then the wolves move elsewhere.  How do you make this viable for a newbie zone... i don't know, but i don't really care. i will leave that solution to those involved in game design. This is me saying what i want to see.

Also in this vein, if i clean out a den of evil, that den isn't going anywhere, but it may take some time for it to become repopulated.. perhaps a family of badgers will move in, or rabid beavers, or a den of wolves, or maybe a survivor that escaped will come hunt me down one day for me killing his clan... I want to see a realistic approach to hunting areas and spawns.

4. A LARGE and diverse world. I love Vanguard's world. I loved eq's world. Granted, there are two different beasts and flawed games. But they did get the worlds down right. I want to be roaming through a desert, trudging through hills, etc. I want the architecture to be different in different regions. I want meaningful travel (nothing too crazy, but not too quick). I liked a lot in eq how each zone was distinctly its own. WoW zones all seemed... more of the same. I was never really impressed by any particular area... they were all somewhat drab.

3. A classless society. That's right! NO CLASSES! I want an all skill based system where everything you did translated into you becoming better at it. I imagine that this would be more like life in that if you spend a lot of time doing something, you become better at it, stop doing that and you're not quite as good. Do we put a limit on what we can learn in life? do you declare ourselves warriors and totally forget how to use the internet or start a fire, or throw a gernade at someone? NO! Why can't warriors use magic? If i was a roaming killing machine i would spend a lot of time learning how to throw fireballs.

2. An immersive world. One of my favorite parts of eq was the crazy cooking recipies and how there were so many of them. If you found some deer meat that was usable on the deer you just slaughtered you could cook it up into a nice deer stew. Found a dead gnome? cut him up and pickle him. I want to see usable items and no trash. I'm sick of having a full bag of crap that i just unload on the nearest vendor. Why does that vendor want this random broken tooth? It is useful? Nope, just... POOF! here is a copper. I want to think about what i'm selling... can i run a little farther away where there are no wolves and therefor my wolf pelts are worth more b/c they are the latest fashion trend? HELL YEAH!

1. Life-like combat and immersion for the player. This is my big dream. I want to walk into my mmo. I want to dodge a sword, parry a thrust, swing my sword around and wade through swamps. I want to see a system where i can use my limbs to achieve replicated movements ingame. Total VR? sign me up. I imagine that some of our tech. does not allow for this, but i'd love to see it and experience it. What is better than stepping into a fantasy world where i am a renowned swordsman, or feared magician? Give me that and i'll be excited. Do it really well, and i'll be damn happy.

i agree with the OP about EQ being the great mmo.  However, i think that in addition to the analogue and his reasoning, EQ gave the user a feel of a WORLD.

in EQ you could go to a wide range of zones, each of which had a distinct enviroment. One knew that in N. Ro you were in a desert, and in the Karanas you were in a giant plain. Even Qeynos Hills had its own distinct flavor.

What made the game totally immersive for me was the cooking and loot. If you were hunting bears you got bear meat and bear pelts. If you hunted gnolls you got their crappy weapons and gnoll pelts, or fur. Each thing you encountered could be used for something and there were rarely crappy little items that were useless, like in wow you have bear tooths that sell for a small amount but don't really tie into the overall game other than a spot taken up in your bag. I also like that EQ had weight and eating requirements. It adds SO much to the immersion factor when your character is hungry or thirsty. It also makes sense that you have a weight reistriction. MONEY is heavy!!! so if you are carrying 30k in copper you aren't going to be moving very much, if at all. This makes sense. How can someone in wow carry 100k in gold and not be burdened by the load?

MMOs of today have focused on quests and gear. EQ was more about immersion and a game world. When i played and occasionally play EQ now, i love that it is a more fleshed out world than any other game out there. I feel like my character is actually a part of something real. I play wow and am bored by the litany of ! ! ! ! ! ? ? ? ? ! ! ! !? ?.

Originally posted by vajuras

 

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Originally posted by davcha
When you look at the big picture, it's equal.
Fights are more or less predictable, of course, but when there's no good reason for fighting, it becomes boring really quickly. (I'm not talking about pvp rewards, here, i'm talking about things like territory contests).

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I'm lost what does being skill-based or class based have to do with 'terriority contests'?

I'M thinking that davcha's point is that it doesn't make a difference because without significant rewards or "prizes" the system in which PVP is implemented doesn't matter.

I just kinda wanna say screw you all who say that the OP's ideas aren't good for whatever reason.  I think you should give good constructive critism instead of tearing things apart.

I love your Ideas OP. Sign me up and i would play the game. I like bringing ADVENTURE back into the genre.

To the poster that said that he was a casual gamer and didn't want to play the game that you were suggesting, GOOD. You mentioned that it was a bad thing to implement these ideas. Have you considered having both long and short dungeons, or making the world beneficial to gamers that didn't play as often, just as it would reward people that did play all the time? At the heart MMO gaming as it stands benefits those that  put in the most time. This manifests itself in higher levels, more gold, more items, better items (because of more time spent farming), and of course more characters. Even if you had a skill based system those that palyed more would have more skills. To knock a game because it doesn't cater to the casual gamer, well, that is just dumb. All games DON"T cater to the casual. 

If you are a person that is happy with the state of the current games, then continue to play them, but don't come to forums and just bash stuff because you don't agree with them. Oh wait, i forgot that this is an internet forum and people's mission is to bash other's ideas (kinda like i'm doing now). That is irony huh?