Originally posted by SaintViktor

If you think the grind to 22 is bad just wait til you will be forced to grind for renown rank 80. Oh and I don't you can completely remove grind from the game, things can't always be that easy to attain all the time.

Here is another classic example of people that lack intelligence or just dont know how to read, so allow me to once again to _hold your hand_ and point you in the correct direction. In the event you dont understand what _POST_ means;

POST = After 

So with that out of the way, please re-read the title of this thread, i didnt say _PRE_ level 22, i said _POST_ level 22 and even added a +

I sure hope WAR doesnt have this persons type of intellect in their community, or we are in trouble!

Originally posted by skydragonren 

I was reading post by post in this thread until I got to this little jewel from the OP. I didn't need to read any further as his "games I play list" summed it up. At least it did so for me.

I have played every game on his list, as an MMO gamer I find it's my duty to at least TRY every MMO on the market, you never know what your missing if you don't try it kinda thing.

Lets see we have EvE - The best sandbox MMO to date - where 80% of it's players have what I call the "Burger King Syndrome" or "BKS". They want it their way right away. Which is why they are playing the only real viable sandbox game on planet earth.

Ryzom - Ok....

Entropia - Why anyone would play this game I have no idea... It is a game designed around those people who would pay real life money for game world shit.....

Guild Wars - 1 of the top 3 PvP games in the last decade - however it's free to play system detracts from it as it is 98% comprised of whiney kids. Gimme  should have called this game Gimme Wars (Gimme is southern speak for give me).

Sword of the New World - Ok so this one might have had a tad of innovation behind it. Still a very weak F2P MMO however.

Minions of Mirth - which at it's very core is an asian MMO grinder.

And EQ2's Bazaar - another place to sell digital items for real money.

 

So... from what I can tell the op need 1 of 3 things to play an MMO.

1. It has to be free (Ryzom, Guild Wars, Swords of the New World, Minions of Mirth)

2. If not free then must be able to make money playing it, (Entropia, EQ2)

3. It must give the "BKS", ops way right away.

 

Well, Warhammer doesn't fit into any of these. It isn't free, you can't sell your items, and it isn't a sandbox, you can't have it you way. You can have it how the devs made it for you though.

 

My suggestion is just keep doing what your doing, real MMO's aren't for you. Only 2 real MMO's you have on your list are EvE and EQ2 that I would recognize as MMO's. Go back to playing 1 of those, make you some real money off your phat lewtz.

 

Anyway guess I better go catch up with Jeremy AKA tehpwnerer and work on my "Uber Micro". /sarcasm off

 

Its too bad there are always people like the above poster that lack the intelligence to see the big picture, then again it could be young age and just lack wisdom!

Originally posted by Narshe

Rank 25 now, I have to say I'm not enjoying the sudden grind. I have been running back and forth between every tier 3 zone to try and complete every quest avaiable for chapters 12 and 13 except a couple of the RVR ones, I'm now running out of quests and only halfway to 26.. scenarios are taking ages. I don't like grinding PQs but, I guess I have no choice right now before moving on to the next chapters. Wish there were either a few more quests or better XP rates for them..

Oh, and I'm not a powergamer. I've been exploring every zone and have been taking my time to enjoy it, I just agree that there is a slowdown here..

 

This is correct, XP doesnt seem to scale with level post 22+

Originally posted by Rytif

Only idiots compare a mmorpg to WoW. Have you ever noticed how they claim that a billion dollar MMO is the only way to "out-do it" at their own game. I can already see that this game didn't have the income WoW had and that's understandable. This game in comparison with all the real MMOs (sorry this does not include WoW) is highly above expectations. In other words, look at the bigger picture and for once in your life; stop being stuck up douches.

In other words, WoW in its league of its own. Only reason its there is because of the income spent on it is highly above average, unlike the majority of others.

Personally, I just find it sad that WAR beats the living shit out of WoW in PvP. Hell, who likes PvE anyway? eewww.

Just for your education since you seem abit _OFF_ the budget for World of Warcraft (WoW) was way less in the tune of several millions compared to the cost to produce  Warhammer Online (WAR).

 To OP,

Any MMO company reguardless of genre that gets paid millions of dollars and then tries to make millions more in revenue from monthy subs in my opinion should NOT be trying to clone any game, much less the grand-fathers like UO and EQ, instead for that amount of money they should be innovating something new and unique.

Think about this, back when UO and EQ came out _THAT_ was innovation, it was different, addicting and new there wasnt anything like it around (not including single player games) however in todays MMO market, game developers have opted for the _EASY_ route in money making and tend to clone and copy what _THEY_ think is hot and appeals to all, in todays MMO arena it happens to be WoW which is the MMO leader, and unfortunately all other MMO game companys try to emulate that which in my opinion is a mistake!

The whole MMO genre needs something new and refreshing not the same ole same ole, its amazing how much money most of these developers along with the artists, designers and musicians get paid yet the best they can come up with is yet another clone and then expect us to pay them a monthy fee!

Originally posted by Iselin

Just in case an innocent bystander comes by this thread and thinks the OP knows what he's talking about...he is clueless. About his points....

1. re: levels... while you level you can PvP within your tier (a 10 level range) people at the top-end of the tier, all else being equal, will average better performance than those at the lower... did someone expect otherwise? lol.... anyway, this is temporary since we'll all be at 40 within the month.

2. Empty T3 scenarios... I ran Tor Anroc 7 times in one hour just before bed last night... Some scenarios at each tier are more popular than others...fly around...ask people...TA is the most popular T3 scenario, in case you need it spelled out for you. Btw... at 24, I hold my own just fine (you get buffed up to 28 if you're lower) against 29's...

re: Leveling curve is huge and slow.... this is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Anyone who has ever played any other MMO will immediately notice just how easy it is to level in WAR. If you want to complain about leveling you should be whining about the opposite....it may just be too easy.

Clue: Scenarios = much, much, much....did I say much? faster leveling than doing quests where you need to find things in caves and such....OBVIOUSLY. An example"? A quest in the T3 area that may take you 20 minutes to do will usually give you 4,000 XP.... a Scenario which is usually over in 6-10 minutes? 10,000+ XP...you do the math. Not to mention that scenarios also give you renown.

Playing on my spare time....after work... watching tons of NFL, CFL, MLB and hockey prea-season.... level 24 Archmage with level 17 renown...and that's because I do enjoy exploring and questing.

 

It is possible to have complaints about WAR--it's not perfect--but this one is useless and ignorant.

And one time at band camp ..... /goes back to sleep

Originally posted by greydor 

maybe a lilttle innovation from an mmo company and leveling could become a thing of the past

a level grind that takes 2 weeks to reach where the game begins is just a waste of 2 weeks to  use the

excuse that i need to level to learn to play my chatacter is old and worn out  character development

and grinding levels are 2 different things

 

I actually agree 110% with this post, i like it!

Originally posted by Meeshak

just curious what mmos do you play?

 

Well lets see;

Eve-Online - Only because these guys really made something new and no other company has been that bold.

The Saga of Ryzom - I loved their concept and ideas, but slowly became a skill based grind.

Project Entropia - I really enjoy their core game system, but their lack of content turns me off abit.

Guild Wars - I love the fact that i can simply choose a level 20 character to PvP without the hasle of _grinding_ 

Sword of the New World - I Love their pet system

Minions of Mirth - I love their multiclass and skill system

EQ2 - I love their RTM Server Bazaar

and a few others like The 4th Coming, but i highly doubt you would even know what that is.

 Well to be honest, as much as it pains me to admit to it, World of Warcraft (WoW) does in fact have a solid and seamless PvP Flow.

WAR needs allot of work and code time in order to get anywhere near as smooth as the PvP feel in WoW; Nothing is worse than a modern day _Rubber Band_ effect (now you see it .. now your target is out of range).

And dont even get me started talking about action responce and real time location x,y,z location based on server feed back to other objects (players) around it.... (can you say ghosts running in the same spot?)

So yeah, i would say that at present time WoW does indeed have a much smoother and more snapier feel to PvP than WAR does.

Originally posted by Meeshak

Whats funny is the op said not fun to everything that the defines the mmo genre.  To me you shouldn't be playing mmo cause every mmo has those same basic elements in some form you said not fun too.

 

Please allow me to correct you; 

as you stated _Whats funny is the op said not fun to everything that the defines the mmo genre_ So everything that defines _COOKIE-CUT MMO CLONES_ other MMO companys that dare stand outside the box are what i would call _INNOVATIVE_ unlike WAR which is another carbon copy clone wanna be, hence why i said _Not Fun_

Originally posted by Gylfi

Agree 100%

But everything could be forgiven if the RvR itself was in anyway compelling or fun.

Ill give you that, its a shame as it stands now RvR (Tier 3 / 4) provides no real motivation to either side (defending or Attacking) to even attempt to take a keep, the zone bonuses overall are comical at best and have no real impact overall, merchant can be found in the main city at the Guild Tavern. So it goes back to the same ol'e same ol'e :(

I really did want to like this game and was excited about it, the leveling between Tier 1 and Tier 2 was a nice pace, its too bad Mythic still has an old school level curve mentality with MMO's.

Originally posted by medafor

ITS NOT OUR FAULT YOU RUSHED LEVELING YOUR CHARACTER GENIOUS. people are still in tier 1 and 2. soon tier 3 will be heavily populated. i still had a warband of 12 today doing a PQ in tier 3 early this morning. maybe you are on a low server. also get into a guild. we always have at least 40 people playing at any given time of the day who is up for whatever.

Natural selection FTW!

Originally posted by Mentat

I guess when Wotlk comes out I'll be back in there. I played War for a little over a week now. It's not bad but, it's also not that good either.

The graphics look nice but, the gameplay isn't nearly as smooth and the gold spammers are frikkin all over that game and unlike WoW there is no program to automatically remove and ignore them.

 

For me its the grind, you really start to feel a HUGE level grind post level 22 (Tier 3+) and that being the case if im going to _RE-GRIND_ i might as well do it when WoTLK comes out and take my 70 to 80.

Originally posted by greydor

no i will not resub i bought the whole world pvp thing. only now i realize pvp in war is not much different then wow in that there is no world pvp just scenarios (bg's anyone)and boxed pvp in the rvr zones outside that the world is statisc and has no world capture points that i've seen. i keep getting told the game begins at endgame why make a game i have to grind 40 levels just to get to the start or the game

I have to agree with this post, most people like war because they are still in Tier 1 or Tier 2, Wait till they hit Tier 3+ and see how the exp curve goes so far up they will start to wounder why they are even trying anymore!

Originally posted by ]V[other

Yeah yeah everybody loves WAR atm. This is the same process of events as every other game has gone through. "OMG, a new game. If you dont love it theres something wrong with you"

6 months later when the newness wears off and the typical fanboi starts to look at the game objectively:

"Piss, moan, bitch, complain, /close account"

LoL AoC didnt even take 6 months.

 

 

It hasnt even been a month and people are already complaining (my self included) about the level grind fest post level 22 (Tier 3+), So basically WAR will be a gap filer untill WoTLK comes out, or DF (if that ever happens).

Originally posted by greydor

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by sabutai22

So a few thing Mythic has lied about;

 

1. RvR / PvP is ruled by Level (over) Gear (over) skill. No matter how good a player(s) is/are they CAN NOT compete against a group that out level(s) them by any means.

So for Mythic having said 60% Skill and 40% Gear is incorrect and false, its more like 80% Level, 19% Gear and 1% Skill (And Skill is debatable since the game will auto turn you if someone tried to stay out of your LoS, not much skill in that!)

Gear also plays a huge role, Anyone that goes into Tier 2 Scenarios with their T1 Gear will not have enough DPS compared to those that are in Tier 2 (with the _LEVEL_ requirement) and their Tier 2 Weapons/Armor.

2. Empty Tier 3 Scenarios taking hours to que up, making anyone thats level 22 having to run PQ and Quests, this is a _HUGE_ boaring grind;

PQ - Kills X number of mobs for X number of times (Not Fun)

Quests - Goto location Z find item Y and then Kill X Number of mobs for X number of times (Not Fun)

RvR (keep seige) - Vastly depends on server and sides, however this once again is ruled mainly by _ZERG_ size followed by number of higher _LEVEL_ players in said _ZERG_ and finally by the active guilds that cordinate said keep seiges.

 

I truely hope Mythic plans something or has something in store for everyone, as it stands now post _LEVEL_ 22 is boaring, slow and very repetative and starting an ALT is even worse since you have to do the entire _SAME_ path all over again! Its bad enough the _LEVEL_ curve is huge and slow!

 

Your kidding me right?

he's not kidding i found the grind to start around level13. not into scenarios (WOW bg's anyone burned out on them 2 years ago) so i tried to level in the rvr areas no one ever there i mean literally no one if i did see a dest char he would run from my engineer not an op class by any means so off i go fleeing after the enemy
sounds strange to flee to try to catch someone to kill them any who i decided to pve a bit and that ended it for me if i wanted pve i wouldn't have quit WOW 2 years ago anyway made it to 17 and all weekend i would log in stare at the screen a few minutes logout and come to the forums here as theywere more entertaining then the game is.

im glad im not the only one!

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by sabutai22

So a few thing Mythic has lied about;

 

1. RvR / PvP is ruled by Level (over) Gear (over) skill. No matter how good a player(s) is/are they CAN NOT compete against a group that out level(s) them by any means.

So for Mythic having said 60% Skill and 40% Gear is incorrect and false, its more like 80% Level, 19% Gear and 1% Skill (And Skill is debatable since the game will auto turn you if someone tried to stay out of your LoS, not much skill in that!)

Gear also plays a huge role, Anyone that goes into Tier 2 Scenarios with their T1 Gear will not have enough DPS compared to those that are in Tier 2 (with the _LEVEL_ requirement) and their Tier 2 Weapons/Armor.

2. Empty Tier 3 Scenarios taking hours to que up, making anyone thats level 22 having to run PQ and Quests, this is a _HUGE_ boaring grind;

PQ - Kills X number of mobs for X number of times (Not Fun)

Quests - Goto location Z find item Y and then Kill X Number of mobs for X number of times (Not Fun)

RvR (keep seige) - Vastly depends on server and sides, however this once again is ruled mainly by _ZERG_ size followed by number of higher _LEVEL_ players in said _ZERG_ and finally by the active guilds that cordinate said keep seiges.

 

I truely hope Mythic plans something or has something in store for everyone, as it stands now post _LEVEL_ 22 is boaring, slow and very repetative and starting an ALT is even worse since you have to do the entire _SAME_ path all over again! Its bad enough the _LEVEL_ curve is huge and slow!

 

Your kidding me right?

i wish i was, and i wish it didnt feel that way not to mention Chapter PQ's are the samething just higher level mobs and scenarios at Tier 3 almost give the same XP as Tier 2 except your Tier 3 level, so yes its a HUGE level curve!

So a few thing Mythic has lied about;

1. RvR / PvP is ruled by Level (over) Gear (over) skill. No matter how good a player(s) is/are they CAN NOT compete against a group that out level(s) them by any means.

So for Mythic having said 60% Skill and 40% Gear is incorrect and false, its more like 80% Level, 19% Gear and 1% Skill (And Skill is debatable since the game will auto turn you if someone tried to stay out of your LoS, not much skill in that!)

Gear also plays a huge role, Anyone that goes into Tier 2 Scenarios with their T1 Gear will not have enough DPS compared to those that are in Tier 2 (with the _LEVEL_ requirement) and their Tier 2 Weapons/Armor.

2. Empty Tier 3 Scenarios taking hours to que up, making anyone thats level 22 having to run PQ and Quests, this is a _HUGE_ boaring grind;

PQ - Kills X number of mobs for X number of times (Not Fun)

Quests - Goto location Z find item Y and then Kill X Number of mobs for X number of times (Not Fun)

RvR (keep seige) - Vastly depends on server and sides, however this once again is ruled mainly by _ZERG_ size followed by number of higher _LEVEL_ players in said _ZERG_ and finally by the active guilds that cordinate said keep seiges.

I truely hope Mythic plans something or has something in store for everyone, as it stands now post _LEVEL_ 22 is boaring, slow and very repetative and starting an ALT is even worse since you have to do the entire _SAME_ path all over again! Its bad enough the _LEVEL_ curve is huge and slow!

Originally posted by Magsato

While I agree that people are playing with the wrong mindset I dont agree with your description of class roles.

The way I see it Tanks are first line offense. They run in and break the enemy lines to scatter and disoreint the enemy. Go for the casters and healers and prevent them from focusing on healing others and force them to heal themselves or die. Followed by melee who come in to mop up the other softies as the tanks rampage about scattering and chasing away the enemy.

healers and ranged DPS stay back and those are the ones who provide support. If a WE/WH pops up to take down a healer another healer should throws heals on the person under attack and then a BW/Sorc should root and blast away.

 

Valid as well, i wasnt saying my way is the correct way, but i think we both agree. Currently the way most players are playing their roles are incorrect and often try to emulate WoW play style. And personally i think its because its all they know, but i hope the changes over time.

Unfortunately for WAR there are a few issues that will plague its game style and the way (im sure) mythic designed classes and roles:

First - its the WOW mentality of how Tanks are played; Often you see the Tanks act as if they are DPS and rush charging in without reguard, THIS is incorrect playstyle for a WAR Tank unlike WoW.

The correct and best value of a Tank in WAR is to stay within 30feet of a healer and place Guard on them, Healers get rushed early on and often, with a Tank by their side along with Guard AND a good healer that knows how to use "DETAUNT" will easily continue to heal without much effort and not have to turn around and run like a chicken with its head cut off.

Second - WOW mentality is how Healers are played; Often you see many healers act as if they are DPS and try to strike down other players without reguard, THIS is once again incorrect playstyle for WAR. Although healers have offensive spells they are truely ment as a secondary means of support NOT your primary role in RvR / Scenarios.

Third - Tactics WoW mentality once again dictates the way players act in battle; which i like to call the 'Rambo' or the 'Look at me!' syndrome.

In any successfull RvR / Scenario campain if players actually played their roles it would look or flow somewhat like this;

For every Healer a Tank pairs up and puts Guard on them, the Healer dictates position and the Tank simply follows keeping the 30ft distance while protecting the healer from incoming assualts.

Next, healers will fall behind healing "THE REAL" DPS classes both Ranged and Melee, Ranged DPS basically snipping and focus fire everything in range, while the Melee DPS rush and keep the healers busy while DPS'ing down.

In reality, none of the above ever happens, instead Tanks put on a 2hander weapon and charge in thinking they are in WoW running in circles and jumping around (this doesnt work in this WAR, the game will auto turn the player your trying to run circles on), Healers act as if they are Shadow Priest in WoW and Nuke/DoT rather than heal while the DoK and WP fight as if they where Retro/Prot Paladins and basically heal them selves rather than assuming their role as secondary support healers keeping true DPS'ers alive.