I have lots of fond memories of the early days of UO from being robbed and murdered in my first 5 minutes in the game to the bugs, lag, ect. I used to lament about the pvp during those first few months (since I was busy trying to advance and death meant a virtual restart) but during the intervening years I have come to realize UO was the last true mmo where it really wasn't pvp vs nonpvp types but more pk's (player killers..murderers thieves ect) versus everyone else. Yes the world was a dangerous place but it made sense and seemed more based on a realistic working world that could have evolved into something very special. Except for folks like me. Yes the masses demanded a safer game and that's what followed. Origin made lots of mistakes but they had the right idea and I miss it. I am doubtful we will ever see it again so I'm glad I experienced it: warts and all.

I don't agree with the op's statement but too each their own.  Another point of view would be that grinding shouldn't exist in any mmo and that it's a game developers shortcut to create content but in any event it has become a part of most games these days. If you truely need what the grinding provides or else you can't play the game then I suppose it's necessary but then I wouldn't be paying to play that game. Grinding is the cheese they dangle in front of the mouse in the maze to keep him moving. If you have more intelligence than a mouse you might make your own choices and take what comes. There  is lots of grinding in lotr and for the most part I've ignored it. And I still look forward to logging in each day after two years even though my character's aren't the strongest they could be while many grinders spend time lamenting on how easy the game is. Like I said, too each their own.

I played ddo for 2 years and loved many things about it (but despised the high level game) and would probably still be there except for a feature becoming available in another mmo that I have waited for years to see. If Turbine can offer more quests that random higher level pickup groups can do I might go back August 4th. If ddo is still a grind to the ultimate high level quests to get the uberest gear I won't stay for long if I do go back. I don't know if that made any sense but there it is.

First let me say I am not playing Aion or have I even read much about it but I wanted to comment on the 'forced pvp' aspect. It's not forced because you can choose whether to play or not. This is what I never understand about mmo's and the people that play them. As soon as they decide to play it they start trying to mold it in the image they want. This, in my humble opinion, is why most mmo's are just copies of previous mmo's because we as the players of mmo's insist on things being the way we want. Now most of us will go ahead and play it anyway but not without creating a ruckuss on the games forums about what we don't like.

Ok that was how I felt. I offer one example of what I speak. A long time ago (same galaxy) I started playing a new online game called Ultima Online. Revolutionary for it's day, full of bugs and soon to be failed concepts in design. It had open pvp (we didn't call it that then) with pk's (player killers) in abundance. You could even die in town if the killer didn't mind dieing for it. And if you died the vultures (the other players) would rush to strip your body of everything you own. Entire guilds lived to pk others and entire guilds we're made to combat the pk guilds. All the while, the average joe (me in this case) tried to go about our business, Ie mining, crafting ect. This is why the pk concept worked as the non-pk and the pk we're in the same word together. So it was a complete world and it truely felt alive.

And I hated it. I wasn't alone in this feeling as I'm guessing 80-90% of the players felt as I did. You couldn't have your fun without always trying to escape being killed. And to top it off, the cheats appeared almost right away. It was like the wild west as anything went. In reality, the game wasn't really playable due to the bugs, cheats and pvp.

Finally, I miss it greatly. I miss that feeling of how alive the world felt. I miss the cooperative spirit that developed as didn't groups of people banded together to try and deal with the pk's. I was just too overwhelmed to realize what a good thing the game was. The masses assaulted the game company (Origin Systems at the time), folks cancelled accounts and the forums we're a nightmare. And it's all gone now. Oh the game is still there but it's an insulated experience now with 2 almost identical worlds cooexisting together. One completely safe and one not. The old world still exists pretty much like it was in the beginning (with some safety nets to fall back on) still filled with cheats, exploits and hacks. Most play in the safe world while the old world is just pvp. You kill me, I kill you back.

I don't know  how this affects this conversation or what the moral of the story is. You can decide that for yourself. But I make one tiny request for this new game. Give it a chance and experience it the way the designers planned it and if you don't like parts of it try and learn to deal with it and if you can't please play something else.

Let it grow and develop before you destroy it and turn it into what you personally want. If you can't do this then don't complain in the future about how all mmo's are clones and nothing new ever comes out. It's still a business and the designers will cave eventually to financial pressures. You might just be part of something unique and wonderful and very, very short-lived. Thanks for reading. Mummy (spider of lotro pvp). BW.

I love the architect and it was the main reason I came back to coh a few weeks ago. This is something they could of made a real mess off but instead they put out a decent product. It doesn't have the detail I'd like but with the parameters I'm sure they had to meet (and avoiding easy exploits of it) we are lucky to get anything.

Since it arrived I have quit playing mostly but I'm not a big fan of the missions that come with the game or the grinding (or the farming). The creativity being shown makes it all worth while but while saying that I'd guess 99% of the created missions go for glitz or farming. The other 1 per cent makes it all worth while and I truly hope to master the system in all it's glitchy glory and come up with something decent.

I'm in hog heaven as I really don't have to leave the MA building now to have some fun and use my creativity after years of mmoing (and trying to be creative in the limited set of circumstances allowed. Many will not like it as most don't have any patience or creativity to put in the time to make something amazing and that's fine because there is always the game play and tons of new missions to play. In any event my server has been full the last few nights which luckily isn't a problem since MA is global as it uses your chat handle so you can design on a quiet server when you need or want too.

In any event, like I said, I love it. It's far from perfect and simple by design but it's nice to add to the game instead of just using it like a rented movie.

Game play is the main thing. All the looks in the world won't make a fun game. Sure the character models could be better and no matter the mmo there will always be those that have something against them. For me though anything they can do to reduce the the load on my system so I can have decent gameplay is worth it. After a few minutes of pvp I can't even remember what the graphics looked like.

Lord of the Rings (for the last 14 months) but mostly pvp only. The pve side of the game is well done but I'm just burned out on leveling. Monster play only requires a level 10 on the pve side and after that you jump in as a level 50 (soon to be 60) monster on the side of evil. Most pvp fanatics don't consider it to be true pvp so that may be why I like it so much.

Before that is was Dungeons and Dragons but the high end raid game is just not my cup of tea (in any mmo).

I agree. Been mmoing since UO and EQ. Those two really got mmo's moving and the early days of both games were memorable. Sadly, since then things really haven't changed much and both of those mmo's changed for the worse. UO is still unique enough to spend some time in but it's a shadow of it's former self and a monument to what could of been.

Origin's failure though with it led to EQ taking a different path and succeeding  quite well and setting the standard for most mmo's to clone ever since. Players are so used to the eq method they can't really function without it. And while the early days were great fun they led to the eventual end game scenarios many of us now dislike.

Level-based games seem to need and end game and players expect it. It seems to satisfy the average players need for status amongst peers in their game in the endless accumulation of rare items which tend to make them better than everyone else. In essence, we have a skill-less existance replaced with an item based one. Anyone can be a legend by just investing time.

To me, that's where we are now. Game companies are making money and people are happily (and mindlessly) chasing the carrot.

I miss my dragon still to this day (loved soaring through the world) but once I reached adulthood and lairs were a long way off I lost all interest in the game. Tthe community projects were fun and involved but as always the grinding was a pain. I don't miss the massive lag of 'events' either. If I wasn't always busy in other mmo's I might of come back at some point just to experience it once again. It could of been great instead of just a footnote.

If the premise of a game interests you then by all means jump in cold and enjoy it without any preconceptions learned from other players.

I was a founder as well and almost made it to one year before I left. Loved the combat and the lower level dungeons. Not a big fan of high level raiding as it exists in mmo's these days. The early dungeons were full of folks excited to be there (if a little haphazard) but the high end raids drove me crazy. It was "paint by the numbers" as most mmo's are at that point. You follow the steps to beat the dungeon and woe to you if you deviated from the routine. I always find it restrictive and stressful with none of the adventuring feel you got early on in ddo. Great game but I'll take lotr pvp any day. (Although turbine is working hard on structuring that too).

Longtime mmo'r (11years+) and  don't plan on buying it as I am happy in my current game. That being said I'm sort of glad to hear from some that doesn't like it. I put extra good/bad reviews in the same category but like someone mentioned the op hasn't been involved in the game in a long time so his view is fairly old as mmo's go in betas. But it's always a good idea not to get your expectations too high for any new game as you are setting yourself up for disappointment and even very good games will suffer against high expectations.

Originally posted by Ender4

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by Ender4

In no particular order.

Vanguard and City of Heroes are the only two I've played that I thought were terrible.  After that you get into games that were flawed and I didn't stick wtih long like AC, AOC, EQ2, SB, UO etc.  I don't really like putting them in the worst category though, they just weren't great.

I've had a decent eye for quality before release so haven't tried most of the more miserable titles that came out.  Only tried Vanguard when it was free and CoH when it was cheap but didn't like either of them at all.

 

If UO was flawed, then why was it the first mainstream MMO?

1. World of  Warcraft

2. Age of Conan

3. Dark and Light

4. SWG at launch, after Jedi were unlocked, and after NGE (some periods of decent quality there)

5. Rohan

 

Because I didn't find chopping trees and mining stuff over and over fun, because the PvE was so exploitable and wasn't really fun at all.  Because the PvP was just mediocre compared to the MUD's I played before UO.  Not everyone likes the same thing in a game.

It's true UO was flawed from the beginning (as are all mmo's) and has only become worse over the years. Still there is alot to do other than mining or other repetitious things. Anyone coming to UO after the first few months missed the one true and unique mmo occurrances that I have yet to see in an mmo (although the early months of eq1 were close).

The game was wide open and exploiting wasn't real common yet. There were no pvp zones as nowhere in the game was safe. Imagine your perception of the American old west and you will be able to imagine what I mean.

In those days it really wasn't pvp but pk (player killers) against the rest of the world. Even being in town wasn't totally safe as thieves scurried around like rats and just sitting in Vesper during those days was an experience to behold. Sure the game was flawed (especially being the first really popular mmo) and not because of the 2d graphics or broken game mechanics (ie monsters wandered so they tended to end up along a coast somewhere or the broken weather and economy systems that were eventually scrapped) but because of the players that played it.

Most just wanted to experience the game and play it in a peaceful manner but a small percentage of folks loved being a pk (not me..I was totally fodder back then). I cursed them, I fought them (vigilante justice at times even). No one had anything of value and if you did you wouldn't have it for long. My first trip into Britain (the main city) I was robbed in the first 2 minutes I entered the game and didn't even know it. Players staked out street locations and declared their wares for sale. Fights broke out, players yelling "Guards!", players dieing and being picked apart like carrion for vultures.

And then you left town and the real danger began. Anyway it was a memorable time and I will always have fond memories (I've forgotten all the pain that went with it) of the early days of UO. It's still playable but a shadow of it's former self but sadly the game wouldn't of lasted all these years if Origin hadn't of changed the game to a more safe setting as the complaints were monumental. But it shows that you really can't have a wide open game with the mentality of most players being rather like sheep. (me included). And I still have a brother playing after all these years straight from the beginning.  But I have my memories of it and my cloth map (complete with UO pin).  :)

Originally posted by Draenor

Originally posted by Krayzjoel

1. SWG -current form (This game blows dead bears)

2. LOTRO- (Like the graphics but to many fing quests!!!!)

3. EQ2- (decent game but  it didnt "catch me")

4. Hellgate London - (was this an mmo? fun to play with friends though)

5. EVE Online- (Im still playing but its a love-hate relationship. at times its very boring)

AOC to me somewhat has improved and im playing it again. WOW I played for couple years so i cant complain too much about it.

 

I've never seen anybody complain that an MMO has too many quests

 

That just doesn't make sense to me...how can an MMO have TOO MANY quests??

I dislike questing alot and always have but Lotr's are really well done and while I don't like pve I can't really criticize the pve in lotr or be turned off by the amount of quests.

Originally posted by Hvymetal

Originally posted by OSF8759

My problem with this game is twofold:

1.  DDO is not in any way shape or form D&D.  I was expecting something more akin to Neverwinter Nights, but instead got...this.

2.  Same game play as Guild Wars, but with a monthly fee.  This alone is epic fail.

 

Meh different strokes for different folks but please eloborate on what exactly is not any way shape or form D&D please.

 

And personally the GW community was epic fail for me....... probablly one of the worst I have experienced.

I'd have to agree. Good game, good community. GW's community was one of the worst I have experienced in 11 years (maybe 12..not sure anymore) of mmo's. Wasn't a ddo original player so I have no problem with how ddo is but if you expected the online version to be like the pen and paper without some concessions to online play or to be like nwn I think you were probably fooling yourself.

Let's see, just for perspective I've played: UO,EQ1,AC,AO,Lineage1,Horizons,E&B,Ryzom,EQ2,Eve,DDO,Knight Online,City of Heroes,SWG,Matrix,Guild wars, Lotr over the last 11 years or so. (I know I am missing some...).

Only 4 for my worst list :Lineage1, Ryzom, EQ2, Knight Online. Still feel sick when I think about them.

Horizons: not so good but  did have lots of fun completing community projects and I loved my dragon so I can't put it on a worst list.

EQ2 to be fair I left after 4 months from the start and I hear it has changed for the better. It was such a change from the classic EQ1 I just couldn't get in to it and the lag in town was overwhelming at the time I played.

Earth & Beyond: Loved this game and still miss it but it was flawed severely.

Anarchy Online. Loved this one but it was also flawed. Endless missions and laggy pvp.

City of Heroes: Good game marred by boring repetitive missions. Still miss it at times but the only thing I really loved about it besides making up character bios and designing heroes was the ice monster invasion. When it ended I faded away from it. Loved some of the heroe powers, well implemented .

Guild Wars was good but it didn't feel like an mmo, the community was almost hostile as well.

Wow: didn't put this on my list as it was the only game I have beta tested and was so sick of it by the time it went live I never bought it but I'm sure it's a great game.  All those that have played it and are playing it has to be the greatest complement to it. I hope anyway.

Asherson's Call: Never was one of my favorites but I had a ton of friends who loved it.

DDO: Loved this game and would probably still be there if not for lord of the rings. Didn't care for the end game but it was a fun community but had my worst experience ever with a person in it which helped sour me on it enough to leave it (that and Lotr).

Eve: Had some great times and loved the ships but once my corp's folks stopped playing I never got in a good one again and without a good corp you really miss the best part of the game. One of the best but also one of the hardest to get into and play.

Star Wars Galaxies: Never really enjoyed this early on (was very laggy in town) and although a great many friends played it I left. Came back after nge and had a bit of fun for about a month before the shallowness of it got me. Always wanted to be a jedi (like everyone  else) but grinding is not my thing. And once they made it easy I didn't care.

Matrix: Loved the feel of the game but once again a game with boring repetitive missions and a strange combat setup. Should of probably put it on the worst list.

Currently in Lord of the rings. Loved the pvp from the start (on the mp side) but Turbine is finally about to put me off it. The pve side is well done and worth any price but it's just not my thing. Great quests if you like that sort of thing. Only game I ever paid for a lifetime sub.

Originally posted by elondor

I am from the UO generation, started UO around beta 2 and played for a couple years.  I am currently playing Lord of the Rings Online.  It is a really fun game, it is polished, graphics are by far the best you can get in an MMO currently. Gameplay is great, crafting is pretty good, not great but it's still good.

 

But if you are looking for a skill based system like UO, like the second post says, MortalOnline is what you are waiting for.. me as well, but it won't be out for almost 2 years.

 

try the LOTRO free trial, it's very good.

www.lotro.com

Also a lifetime lotr fan. Played UO from the beginning for the first 3 years. Miss the early days alot and have a brother that's still in UO after all these years (but he's playing lotr also). Hope that helps.

Tried EQ2 for the first 4 months and wasn't happy so I moved on but I'm glad to see so many enjoying it now but for me I'll stick with Lotr.

A year now and I'm happy (and with a lifetime acct). People criticize the pvp but I came for it and still enjoy it daily and the only thing that will sour me me on it in the future is Turbine. I'm happy for anyone that's found the game they love.

btw: lot's of folks left lotr for AOC and quite a few have returned but that's the world of mmo's. Some will never find their niche. Good luck to them though.

I didn't get into swg until nge (which I didn' t like) but I remember the love that many of my friends felt for the game.

I've felt that way many times in gaming.  UO, E&B (I still miss my animated characters on the character selection screen) and many other games that started out just the way I liked them and then we're changed.

I understand why those developers did what they did also but I couldn't live with it. Currently, Turbine is on their way to the same disaster with their pvp in Lotr (yes I know most don't agree it's pvp). I love the pvp.

I bought the game for it but I can see the writing on the wall as they plod along in their reactionary approach to development and in adding features none of us wanted (or even knew about).

 It's their game, I know, but I'd like to feel I am part owner (lifetime sub too) but just like Verant in the early days of EQ it's their game, their business and we are only the lowly subcribers. The unreasonable customer, one of the masses they can't possibly please without annoying many others.

I know you can't please everyone but sometimes I wish they could just stick to what they put forth in the beginning without taking anything away (or adding something that takes something away by proxy). It's an impossible dream and they have money concerns. And I am just one customer.

Admittedly, I like to read the forums (and I have no plans to play aoc) as I am an mmo junkie but remembering back to AO and the forums I can understand why funcom might be gunshy about the forums.  So I am reading these forums and am enjoying the descriptions and comments about the game. (sorry I skip the bad ones..I'm here for fun..not agony). :)