My first love was CoH, and I had quite a few level 50s.  Then the ED nerf came out (around issue 7) and I left it for greener pastures.

After flitting about looking for my next addiction for six months or so, my wife recommended Eve Online as she liked the looks of it.  That's probably the worst mistake she's ever made, because I was immediately addicted, and have been since then.  There's just no deeper or broader game in the MMO multiverse.

ATITD is a nice P2P with some of the best crafting in the MMO industry, and a 24-hour (in-game time) trial to check it out.  Wurm has a very limited F2P system with similar crafting, but items deteriorate at a tremendous rate.

Neither of these games are as good as Eve or SWG, but they're very nice on their own merits.  Enjoy!

Of the games I've played, here's my list:

1) SWG, pre NGE - The crafting system is in-depth, but now that durability has been removed and bots roam the galaxy, it's become more mundane.  Leave it to SOE to ruin a good thing.

2) Eve Online - there are like 8 different crafting techniques, each requiring specific skills and giving specific products (T1 gear, T2, T3, rigs, boosters, PI, Capitals, Outposts, etc).  That and the fact that you can sell what you harvest and make means it takes high honors, even if not as deep as SWG.  The depth of PI reactions is impressive too.

3) Fallen Earth - the crafting here is top notch, but the bugs in the game design and the poorly designed missions drops it's value on this list.

4) ATITD and Wurm - The crafting systems are pretty similar, and the lack of established trade (aside from barter) means it's hard to sell what you have.  Not impossible by far, but if the economy was improved, these games would be a competitor to SWG for top honors.

Haven't played any others, so I can't honestly comment on them.  Even still, there are some nice crafting games out there.

I'm surprised that the expansion list didn't feature something a lot of people both who play the game and who do not: Eve Online: Incarna.  Walking in Stations seems to be a wanted item by a lot of people.

I've played ATITD for a while, and while I love the crafting in it, there are many features which I don't like about it, with the main ones outlined below:

1) The amount of Bots and RMT allowed and even encouraged in the game.  If you're looking for a SWG-level bot game, this is it.  If you want to play seriously, pick another game, as I'd estimate 95% of the characters use bots at least sometimes.

2) The developer is busy working on another project, and has no time for the game.  The current tale (5) has no plotline that I know of, at least from 4 months ago, and is losing steam in the fanbase.

3) The lack of combat.  While collecting and crafting is great, it's also dull as crap after a while, and the social aspect isn't that lively either.  It's a great crafting game, but a bit of PvE combat or something would make it more appealing.

ATITD isn't a horrible game, it just has a few flaws which keep me from it.  I'll occasionally play for a bit, but it doesn't hold my interest.

Yes, CCP wins it again for Innovation.  Tyrranis wasn't really the main innovative point in the game, as PI is a horrible click-fest (thought that should change within the next few weeks).

What CCP did is really listened to the players for the Incursion patch and fixed a lot of problems with the gameplay.  They removed learning skills, enhanced T2 ammunition and rockets, reworked assault ships, and improved the character creator drastically.

One of the things few people will notice but will make a huge difference (which they have done with previous patches too) is improved the core project of the game.  They're taking the old spaghetti code and bit by bit, expansion by expansion, streamlining and modernizing the codebase to make the game work more smoothly with modern hardware.

In all, kudos to CCP for a well-deserved award for innovation in 2010.  I'm eager to see what's coming in 2011, with the expected release of Dust 514 (completely shattering the MMO stereotype yet again) and Incarna (Walking in Stations).

Here's one: Which game gave you for Christmas a snowball launcher and a supply of snowballs that would melt if you kept them too long?

A: Eve Online.  This practice was changed, as people would see the snowball launcher targeting them and going red and think they were under attack.  Snowballs aren't prohibited by Concord, but retribution is, so the player would fire back and get attacked by the police.

I as well sometimes lament at the state of communities in the game, but that is where the money is going.  There are still social MMOs out there, but they're very clique-ish.

ATITD is an example of a social game, where community involvement is almost required.  Most if not all trade is through the barter system, where a person's valuation and skill at achieving the desired object (using mini-games) determines whether the deal is good to you or not.  Unfortunately, there's no real action in the game, so it doesn't work for me.

Eve Online is my favorite game, where community involvement still plays a major role.  Alliances are built upon trust (as the Causality trailer states), and that trust is the commodity that is most valuable and easiest to lose.  I'm not saying that it doesn't have it's problems, but it wins the best community award time and time again for a reason.

I wish there was more games like those I listed out there, but unfortunately they're few and far between.  We just gotta make do with what we got.

I tried the WoW trial twice.  Couldn't get into the game, as it doesn't seem to have any real depth to the mechanics, nor does it require much thought to play (yes, I heard about button sequences - that's not thought, that's repetition).

I first got started playing Diablo (can you call that an MMO?), then played CoH for a couple of years, then moved between Eve and a bunch of other games (ATITD, Auto Assault Beta, Champions Online Beta, Fallen Earth, and a few others).  Eve has my heart due to the complexity of the game in general as well as the excitement (loss actually means something in Eve).  Some aspects could be improved (mining, etc), but it's still far better than the point-and-click of WoW.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate WoW or anything of the sort.  If anything, I'm grateful for the attention it's brought to the MMO market.  However, it just isn't for me.

The amount of threads which the program supports is a major factor in which CPU will run better.  Most programs right now only support two cores, so getting a quad core has been shown to perform as well or sometimes even slower than a dual core (due to the confusion for multiple cores when the OS doesn't support it).

I have been thinking about getting the I7s with the low-K gate, as that is a pretty drastic improvement on the capabilities of the core, making math computations faster.  Right now, I run a Core2Duo on a netbook and couldn't be happier, as it can run most MMOs out there without breaking a sweat.

I was in CSM 2, when they announced Project Unholy Rage and it filled me with hope.  An industrialist by trade (who sometimes engages in PvP), the bots and macros have been a constant pain in my proverbial posterior.

I read the article, and it left me with mixed emotions.  On the positive side, it tells me they're still working at it and banning macroing accounts.  On the negative, they showed little to no regard for non-RMT macros.

"While we have put much of our focus on the RMT related activities we do realize that botting is not exclusive to RMT in EVE and we do investigate reports and take action against players proven guilty of using macros for mining, ratting, mission running, market activities and whatnot."

CCP is in a tenuous place, and I agree with the article that started all this commotion that changes have to be made on CCP's side to help fight the macro invasion.  CCP is loathe to install any software which would violate their trust (unlike Blizzard, who views actions in the kernel of the OS).

So, in summary, I say to CCP: Good job.  Now lets take the next step.

G2GTech, aka Bunyip in Eve Online.

Kind of in the same sense as some of the previous posters, but I prefer games that make me think.  Mindless killing gets boring real quick, as well as clickfests such as mining and related activities.  Combat is good as a side-quest, but not if it involves auto-attack.

I played ATITD for a while, and that was exactly what I meant about intellectual games.  However, the lack of anything else bored me to tears.  The manufacturing and story were great in Fallen Earth, but it couldn't hold my attention either due to bugs and design flaws.  Eve is the only game that can hold my attention, as it involves both.

Despite a few problems, Eve Online seems to knock the competition out of the water in this one.  It's true that WoW and CoH both put out major expansions, but for many reasons (community, support, fun, mixed activities, etc), I have to go with Eve.

I was going to say Eve, but TBH Tyrrannis was a pretty bad expansion.  I hear they're fixing it now, but the expansion itself was pretty bad.

I went with CoX because, even though I don't play the game anymore, the moral system is really a breath of fresh air to the game.  Since you can play any archetype for villains or heroes (effectively), they've balanced out the PvP.

I would've voted for Icarus Studios (of Fallen Earth fame), but they seem to be missing from the list, so I went with my alma mater (CCP/Eve Online).

I can understand a lot of the viewpoints listed in this thread, and agree with many of them.  As a representative in the CSM, I had a chance to talk to the developers, and I understand some of their grief.

One major problem CCP seems to have is either they have nobody who plays the game, or those who do are in positions of negligible importance in the overall game.  There are a lot of problems with the game overall, but none that detract from 99% of the gameplay.  The main problem is that the game is almost 7 years old, and has a lot of spaghetti code that seriously needs revamped.

One other note: for those who claim that Eve is a PvP game, it's not.  It's not a PvE game either.  Eve is a game where both are necessary for the market to continue working the way it has.  PvE creates the supply, PvP creates the demand.

In other words, Eve is EvE - Everybody vs Everybody.  It is unique in the MMO world, and the company who makes it is not afraid to push the envelope and be a trendsetter.  The game is not for everybody, but it caters to a select few who enjoy depth to their games and the slow progress.

This thread has been a very interesting read, and I can't disagree with most stuff there.  Just mind you, the game is unique and not for everybody.

If you're really serious about creating a new character, I have some advice for you (this is just minimaxing - there's no saying that a Minmatar couldn't crosstrain for these paths or such).  For starters, you're looking at a choice between two races, the Gallente and the Caldari.

Caldari missile boats are the fastest way to finish a mission, such as with the Drake or other well-known ships.  They also have the biggest freighter (the Charon), and some nice PvP ships should you take that route *cough*Falcon*cough*.

Gallente have drone boats, which I fly for level 3/4 missions and love em.  The drone specialization means you can use the high-slots for tractor beams and salvagers (I've had ninja salvagers get mad at me in local for not leaving wrecks behind).  The Gallente also have the best high-skill industrial available (the Iteron 5), and the Obelisk freighter is only slightly worse than the Charon.

Whichever way you choose to go, I would recommend leaving your current character on your account (since an account can hold 3 characters).  Run the starter mission arcs to get a good view of the possibilities for your race, as visible in the character Bunyip's bio.  Best of luck to you.

Good to hear you're getting your feet wet in the game.  This game is of massive depth - much more than any other MMO out there.

You have done the starter missions, but if you need help, the bio for the character Bunyip will be of vast importance to you.  This is my character, and I served on the CSM during term 2.  Feel free to convo me at any time if you need further help.

Best of luck, and fly safe.

I'm happy that they finally got the sov costs worked out to a reasonable level and are putting more effort into the Mothership changes.  When it goes live, I'm gonna wait for all the contention to die down (as there will probably be a lot of manipulation when the new mechanics are released), then I might actually join an alliance.  The NPC corp tax is kinda depressing, and I'd like to take advantage of the new ABCs (Arkonoid, Bistot, Crokite).

Good to have you back, Staat.  I play the character in the game named Bunyip, a member of the Council of Stellar Management.  I've been hearing a lot of good things from CCP for the future of the game, and can promise you that it's only going to get better from here.

I'll have to agree with your statement that the game is completely unique.  Eve is one of the first to have a classless, level-less system, and the fact that, while skills do matter, they don't decide victory or failure, is a nice feature too.

Anybody in the game is always welcome to add me to buddies and chat me with any questions or concerns you may have.  This CSM session is almost over, but I do plan to stay in touch with the future CSM members but not be one myself.

- Bunyip