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MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

All Posts by Scot

All Posts by Scot

254 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last
5070 posts found
What is 'hate' and 'love'? The strength of those words have become devalued, as the fashion of kids to use them to mean like and dislike has become common usage by the majority.
Well supposedly you just re-joined, so instead of trolling, perhaps you can answer this question for us?
One last time, Mega Servers are cheaper, we are not going to get rid of them because we don't like them. As with the entire history of gaming, the only reason they will not bring in something cheaper is if players stop buying. That is not going to happen here, so get used to them.
Originally posted by Soandsoso
Originally posted by fivoroth
You guys know what's said? That reddit, yes REDDIT, has become a more mature place to have discussions about games than MMORPG. I have recently been reading the ESO and FFXIV forums there and it's just so much better. A lot less trollnig and negativity there. But seriously, this is getting sad when reddit becomes a more civilised place for discussions.

Sad but true.

Not the first poster to bring this up, our new generation of content locusts are voracious in their trolling as well as eating content.

 

Originally posted by JeroKane

It's been what? 4 months? And People still bitching and moaning here and trolling every single topic that has a shred of positivity in it.

Move on already and get on with your lives! It's getting beyond pathetic now.

They don't have anything else to do, Wildstar was not the saviour of online gaming, so they are back on here to whinge. :D

 

Originally posted by delete5230
The mega server idea is crap from the start.......Bad idea !

I am so surprised you think that.

Mega Servers are here to stay, they may find a work round for the grouping issues, but rant all you like the industry is not going to give up mega servers. They are cheaper, that magic word is all that counts, expect them in every new MMO by 2016.

The official site has a Guild section, get yourself there on the double soldier! :)

"MORE players are playing MMOs than 14 years ago." - Because they changed gameplay so our mum's and eight year olds could play them and they dumbed games down even further to entice social media users who have only played Candy Crush. Player base getting bigger does not equal games getting better.

"MORE games are available than 14 years ago." - If we just take MMOs the era of the WoW Clone Wars started a decade ago, lots of clones does not equal lots of games, its just the same game in a different skin. The indie games which boost this idea we have more games are beggar-man games, the game play can be excellent, but it is on a shoestring budget. It is not good for gaming when great ideas can only get made on a shoestring budget because big gaming houses don't like new ideas.

"MORE money is coming in every month than ever before." - If you put your prices up that tends to happen. If you keep releasing new clones and there are enough new players coming in from new playbase areas, you will make more money. If you convince players it is alright for a MMO to have a subscription and a cash shop, you will make more money. If you convince players it is alright to launch a solo game with dlc to download on day one, when they already bought the game, you are going to make more money.

More does not always mean better, hopefully I have gone some way to helping posters understand this.

Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by MadFrenchie
MMOs aren't declining, but they also aren't leading the way in online gaming.

Casual/Social games are and by a large margin. MOBAs are quickly becoming more popular than MMOs as well.

No problem. Just classified MOBAs as MMOs (as many industrial research sites), and MMO will suddenly look much better.

 

This is about the death of a style of gameplay. Adventure games died because they were not appealing to enough of the market, the same has happened to MMOs. What MMOs have become may well not appeal to enough of the market, and current 'MMOs' will die as well. MOBA's and other games like them may inherit the space that MMOs once held. Once a genre moves far enough from the mainstream it effectively dies, before you mention Sherlock Holmes again Nari, Adventure games need to be mainstream to be considered a vibrant genre, the days of Monkey Island are gone.

None of this is about making the best games you will notice, it is all about appealing to the maximum numbers of punters as possible, any genre that cannot do that is destined for the dustbin.

 

Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by Fingz

Young people no longer join MMOs, they are playing Minecraft, LoL, DOTA and FPS'. 

As older players leave, there is no one to replace them.

If you need evidence, look at the recent Sony Fan convention, EQNext conference.  It was just old people 35 and up.  No twenty somethings.

 

 

Or younger players don't go to fan conventions.  There are more than 0 new players and more than 0 young players.  My daughter just started playing WoW and her boyfriend has been playing for a while now.  Young players and new players right there.

 

I am of the opinion that youngsters are joining MMOs, but they also used to be at those conventions. So the idea that younger players don't go to fan conventions does not wash. Unless they have become so intermeshed with the concept of being online they don't see a need to physically go anywhere? :)

 

Originally posted by kikosforever
Originally posted by DMKano

Yeah - and they didn't even make it into the top 40 game sales chart on the same site.

So how many copies did they sell? A couple of thousand? 

http://www.chart-track.co.uk/index.jsp?c=p/software/uk/latest/index_test.jsp&ct=110015

 

So yeah top of PC chart sales and not even in top 40 game sales - it means PC games arent selling for shit and ESO total sales were low even as number one on that PC chart.

 

+1

-1 (We are not on social media, but don't you wish we were? That way we could have more meaningless drivel like +1 and -1. :) ))

You would have noticed had you bothered to look, that not one MMO or its expansion is on that list, unless you think Minecraft is a MMO. If you expect TESO to outdo every MMO out there you have a point; but surprise, surprise it has not. When it tops the console chart what are you guys going to say then? But hey don't worry, no matter what any stats or anyone else says, you are always right.

 


Originally posted by lizardbones   Sure, if money didn't matter there might be great things out there, but there would also be piles and piles of cr@p too.  That's what happens when you let just anyone make things.  Luckily we don't have to depend on opinions from "experts" on what makes a good game.  We can use the metric that has been used since video games first sold.  The number of people who buy them.

 


I am not saying there is no place for business in gaming, it is essential. But the priority of business thinking has gone too far, we had John Riccitello crowing about how he had made his designers at EA think like accountents. That's what you have budget guys for, the creative team should not be worrying about cost. If they need to be pulled in someone else in the company should do that. He narrowed EA's vision by making creatives think like bean counters.

But I was also talking about the direction of design, which has been driven by marketing, this fly's directly against the concept of us getting better games over time. Gaming houses have successfully brought far more potential players into gaming with a Model T Ford, that's who they have been designing for. They have not been trying to design an ever better Rolls Royce, uniquely tailored to the customers choice.

Like Wolfshead said, you need to compare like to like.

When ESO comes out on consoles, then you can do a fair comparison. The fact ESO made it into the top 40 (all games) on only PC sells at launch shows you how strong it is.

 


Originally posted by AlBQuirky  

Originally posted by Pepeq We all know the PC is going the way of the dodo... games are moving away from them and embracing the new technology that is eclipsing PC sales by a landslide.
"We all" do? Really? I had no idea I thought that way. Thanks for enlightening me.   Careful of using absolutes (all/none/everyone/no one). Most of the time, you will be wrong, as in this case.
It is not the PC that is lacking games right now:

 

 

 http://www.techradar.com/us/news/gaming/consoles/console-gaming-is-dead-everything-good-is-happening-on-pc-right-now-1260162

Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by iridescence
Originally posted by lizardbones
 

But why are we comparing Shooters and MMORPGs?  Wouldn't it make more sense to compare RPGs to MMORPGs?  Would someone playing Pools of Radiance recognize the elements there that have made it into World of Warcraft?  PoR was release in 1988.  Ultima Online was released in 1997, so from 1997 to now we have 17 years.  Would someone playing an RPG in 2005 recognize that game as a descendant of a game like Pools of Radiance, written in 1998?  It would certainly be much easier to play and would take a lot less time, not to mention having 3D graphics.

 

OK I think the difference is Single player RPGs got way deeper and more complex. Neverwinter Nights 2 (2006) is on a whole different magnitude of depth compared to Pool of Radiance despite both being RPGs based on (different editions of) D&D.  This is what usually happens with games. As the computer hardware can handle more we get more complexity, more choice and a deeper experience.

 

MMOs are weird though in this way. Sure, Ultima Online is way more complex than some MUD you would have played in 1988 but in the last few years they've gone in the other direction, now they have less depth, less classes and  less mechanics than MMOs released 10 or 15 years ago. That's why you have some people at least feeling the genre is going backwards.

 

 

 

You are cherry picking examples to illustrate your point.  At the same time there are games that showed more complexity, there are games that got simpler in terms of game play.  Fallout 3 uses far more resources than either Pools of Radiance or Neverwinter Nights, but it's not an especially deep game.  It has tons and tons of content, but that doesn't make the content especially complex.

 

If games in general got more complex, it would seem like the general trend of that would continue in all genres, but it doesn't.  If that were true, our current crop of RPGs would all be very complex, very deep experiences, and they're not.  Same thing for FPS games, RTS games and even MOBAs, but that isn't happening.

 

What actually happens seems to be more like games in general streamline as developers figure out what most people actually want and then they push the features, like graphics, that people really want to push.  A small number of developers are games push into the more complex territory, while the majority of games push into the mainstream territory.  Sometimes one of those games in the outlying territories finds something interesting and it gets pushed into the mainstream territory.

 

Taking shooters as an example was just an example, but a perfectly valid one. MMOs have developed differently to the way the rest of gaming has, but in many ways it has followed the path all gaming has, those two points do not negate each other.

The use of the word 'streamlining' is weighted with a positive opinion about where gaming is now. It assumes gaming houses have made the right decisions, are picking the right elements out of games and taking them forward. But as we know the reasons why certain elements in gaming are taken forward is not always to make the best game.

'Streamlining' in particular gets used to advocate that less is in fact more. They take away elements and say "This is better." It is an excuse we have seen used time and time again.

When gaming companies decided to go for solo RPG players and make MMOs solo, that was not done with making a better game in mind, it was to expand the market. When they decided that MMOS should go for console gamers to expand the market that was not to make MMOs better games. When they decided to tailor MMOs to tempt in social media users who played the likes of Farmville, once again it was not done to make a better game.

Back to 'streamlining', is it innovation when everything gets smaller? Another poster mentioned LoL (not even a MMO), innovation yes, but its only one way; smaller world, cheaper graphics, dumbed down combat. This is in fact reflected in wider gaming, with the reuse of previous content in a series, which if done well is fine, if done poorly looks cheap arse. But overall the AAA titles outside of MMOs get bigger, at least in size, while AAA MMOs are getting smaller.

Simplicity is best when you want everyone and their mum to play (to paraphrase EA's ex CEO), but we are not all six years old or middle aged and have never played a game before. That's the design principle for 'better' games that now rules.

In spite of all this we still get some great games, but could they be better if not designed by marketing and accounts? Most certainly.

 

Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Arclan

No offense to the OP, but as long winded as he is; the bashing of EQ as "just one big boring grind" suggests a lack of social skills. Now, unless you started playing EQ after 2004, EQ was a very social game. Players interacted, hung out, formed groups for expeditions, or just went to an interesting dungeon and joined other players.

 

Or social is just boring to him. Are you confused between inability and undesirable?

Case in point, I am in a couple of guilds (including a progressive guild) before, and it is just not fun for me. So i don't social ... does that mean that I cannot? I don't think so.

And yes, EQ is just a big boring grind (worse, a big boring grind with camp drama), and the "social" makes it worse?

What on earth is a progressive guild? Do they talk about where we should be going in politics or something?

You are not a social animal Nari, that is abundantly clear, it amazes me that you find the time and interest to communicate with us on here. Don't think about that too much or we might never see you again. :)

 

"They're MMO's, Jim, but not as we know them."

Take a shooter from 2000 and tell us how that's different from a shooter today? Take a MMO from 2000 and you barley recognise the gameplay. The easymode, solo, ultra themeparks of today are not MMOs. They are not in decline, they are dead Jim.

 

Originally posted by Quirhid

I proposed a new section dedicated for such threads a while back.

The doom & gloom really does bring the quality of these forums down. Mods should definitely do something about it.

 

This forum has done a fine job of pretending issues do not exist in the past we already have a section for:

Group versus Solo

Sandbox versus Themepark

MMO population tools

 

As we all should know by now there are no issues with grouping in MMOs, there is no issue with too many Themeparks and MMO population tools always work. Lets add a 'There is No Issues at All with Current MMO's' sticky thread.

Then we can all stick our head in the sand and forget about it, take your tablet and praise the genre!

They hype and then they get an award for hyping, you could not make it up.

It is amazing where your living room can take you. :)
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