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MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

All Posts by madazz

All Posts by madazz

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1114 posts found
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by madazz
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by madazz
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by madazz
Originally posted by ragz45
Originally posted by madazz
Originally posted by Bascola
Well, MMORGPS are declining so they need to add advertisement revenue from other genres. They can't rename the site...

And I have said multiple times I have no problem with that. But they made a list of 5 mmos that are buy to play. Out of that list of 5, only 3 are MMORPGs's. 

 

I would gladly read articles, and I have, about non mmo games on this site. Such as Path of Exile which I enjoy very much. But I don't want to eagerly look at an article about MMO's only to find standard multiplayer games in there. If its labeled MMO I want an MMO!

 

You don't go out asking for apples and settle with an egg do ya? Its not even the same damn thing. Both are edible and it ends there.

Fixed it for you

You didn't fix anything. I wrote what I intended. All 5 games were called an MMO, yet two are not.

The Crew is quite massive, when freely roaming you share the world with the other players. Just like another similar game, Need for Speed World.

I play the Crew, you are limited to the amount of people you can see on the screen. You may see just a few. And when you race its only a few of you too. You will never see even 100 players together because everything is segregated. Its not an MMO. 

From what I've read, they limit the amount of players you can see to the closest ones for performance reasons. Remember, it's a RACING game, performance and frame rate is way more important than in the usual MMOs.

What would be the point of displaying 100+ cars in the distance if your frame rate drops below 10 and at the next turn, you lag so badly that you end in a tree?

Exactly. So its not an MMO as you can't play with with 100+ cars. Sure that wouldn't be practical, but that just means that a racing MMO is not practical. It doesn't mean that a racing multiplayer game isn't practical though. Just because a game doesn't make sense to be made into a full fledged MMO, doesn't mean you can suddenly call it an MMO because you end up seeing a ton of people over time.... Its only an MMO if its an MMO. Remember... its a definition.

You realize that every MMO limits the amount of characters visible on the screen, right?

So we read it here first... MMOs actually do NOT exist.

=P

LOL.  :)

Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Iselin
 

You shouldn't make definite statements like "MOBAs are not MMOs" when even the term MMO is relative and arbitrary.

  • What is massive/massively and what is not? Does the Clan Wars system make World of Tanks an MMO-BA?
  • What constitutes as a multiplayer game? Is Dark Souls a multiplayer game since other players can leave you messages and can, with limits, visit your game instance?
  • Can a game be an MMO if there's an option to play off-line?
  • What implicit features are/should be attributed to MMOs?
Who decides all these?
 
The prudent thing is to say that "MMO is something different to everybody", and just really leave it at that. For a knowledgeable gamer, it is not too hard to shoot down every attempt to define the term.

The term MMO has become relative and arbitrary only recently. We all knew what kind of game we were talking about when we said it 10 years ago. The only confusion and debate in those days seemed to center around GW1.

I don't remember seeing an industry-accepted definition in the past decade and a half that I have worked in it. The most consistent definition I have seen is that it is a large number of players in a virtual world. Proximity and manner in which the virtual world was represented was never a criteria.

Can you link to the concrete definition that was previously used?

 

As for GW1, that was always called a CORPG, and back when it was released it was still only trivial circles such as this that gave a crap if a game was a 'real' MMO or not.

 

The english language defined what MMO means. CORPG was a co-op role playing game. So an RPG was that co-operative, not massively multiplayer.

 

Literally, all you have to do is have a basic understanding of the english language. Its not even disputable. I know you are a smart guy cause I've read your post for years, I think you just need to think on it for a minute. Maybe just having a long brain fart. I dunno. 

Ive always found it weird that people want a priest to be able to take on a mage or warrior 1 vs 1. I think games to be balanced in terms of everyone having their use, but a priest shouldn't be as powerful in a fight as a fighter.

It used to be an accomplishment to get a priest or healer leveled up in past games. No they are warriors with healing spells its not so much an issue. Hell, a priest/healer/shaman in many games is down right over powered.

Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by madazz
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by madazz
Originally posted by ragz45
Originally posted by madazz
Originally posted by Bascola
Well, MMORGPS are declining so they need to add advertisement revenue from other genres. They can't rename the site...

And I have said multiple times I have no problem with that. But they made a list of 5 mmos that are buy to play. Out of that list of 5, only 3 are MMORPGs's. 

 

I would gladly read articles, and I have, about non mmo games on this site. Such as Path of Exile which I enjoy very much. But I don't want to eagerly look at an article about MMO's only to find standard multiplayer games in there. If its labeled MMO I want an MMO!

 

You don't go out asking for apples and settle with an egg do ya? Its not even the same damn thing. Both are edible and it ends there.

Fixed it for you

You didn't fix anything. I wrote what I intended. All 5 games were called an MMO, yet two are not.

The Crew is quite massive, when freely roaming you share the world with the other players. Just like another similar game, Need for Speed World.

I play the Crew, you are limited to the amount of people you can see on the screen. You may see just a few. And when you race its only a few of you too. You will never see even 100 players together because everything is segregated. Its not an MMO. 

From what I've read, they limit the amount of players you can see to the closest ones for performance reasons. Remember, it's a RACING game, performance and frame rate is way more important than in the usual MMOs.

What would be the point of displaying 100+ cars in the distance if your frame rate drops below 10 and at the next turn, you lag so badly that you end in a tree?

Exactly. So its not an MMO as you can't play with with 100+ cars. Sure that wouldn't be practical, but that just means that a racing MMO is not practical. It doesn't mean that a racing multiplayer game isn't practical though. Just because a game doesn't make sense to be made into a full fledged MMO, doesn't mean you can suddenly call it an MMO because you end up seeing a ton of people over time.... Its only an MMO if its an MMO. Remember... its a definition.

Just to be clear, I love MMOs and non MMO games. I and many other have no problem with MMORPG.com covering games we may or may not like that arent MMO's. All we are asking is that a non MMO game be classified for what it actually is. Thats all :)
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by madazz
Originally posted by ragz45
Originally posted by madazz
Originally posted by Bascola
Well, MMORGPS are declining so they need to add advertisement revenue from other genres. They can't rename the site...

And I have said multiple times I have no problem with that. But they made a list of 5 mmos that are buy to play. Out of that list of 5, only 3 are MMORPGs's. 

 

I would gladly read articles, and I have, about non mmo games on this site. Such as Path of Exile which I enjoy very much. But I don't want to eagerly look at an article about MMO's only to find standard multiplayer games in there. If its labeled MMO I want an MMO!

 

You don't go out asking for apples and settle with an egg do ya? Its not even the same damn thing. Both are edible and it ends there.

Fixed it for you

You didn't fix anything. I wrote what I intended. All 5 games were called an MMO, yet two are not.

The Crew is quite massive, when freely roaming you share the world with the other players. Just like another similar game, Need for Speed World.

I play the Crew, you are limited to the amount of people you can see on the screen. You may see just a few. And when you race its only a few of you too. You will never see even 100 players together because everything is segregated. Its not an MMO. 

Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by zwei2
A non-trollish article that invokes critical thinking is a piece of work. This news gets people to engage in a decades-old topic  - what makes a game an MMO?

Critical thinking is great.  The problem is the type of critical thinking being evoked...

  • An article about "online RPGs" could have led to a higher discussion about the merits of each game.
  • Instead, the article misused "MMO", and conversation degenerated into semantics.
It's disappointing to see critical thinking wasted on re-defining things whose definition is obvious based on the word itself (massive multiplayer online.)

The author himself, who is obviously new to MMO's in genre, tried to argue that GuildWars 1 was even an MMO. He wasn't just trying to advertise buy to play games, he was trying to bastardize the english language.

 

Sorry guys, but changing the definitions of words isn't up to you. 

Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Iselin

That maybe so but for a game to be called an MMO the potential for a massively large number of players to be in the game world at the same place needs to be there. Otherwise it's not an MMO.

According to whom? Since when has numbers in proximity been a criteria? Travian and Grepolis are no less an MMO than EQ is, yet they have hundreds of concurrent players per server and the majority of the game takes place in a single-player view. I don't recall seeing any more than a dozen or so people in the same place in Furcadia. Is that no longer an MMO? Is APB's Social District the only thing making that game an MMO?

Seems like a very odd and arbitrary criteria. 

The very definition of MMO is a ton of people playing the game TOGETHER. Not in segregated worlds. Its literally the definition. Its what MMO's like UO and EQ started. You aren't limited to only 16 people in your game.

Chess is not an Massively Multiplayer game just because millions are playing it. Its just a multiplayer game. Now if you had a gigantic chess board and a few hundred people were all playing it together, thats Massively Multiplayer. But having several hundred separate boards with 2 people playing on each is not.

 

Remember, MMO is a definition, not a genre.

Originally posted by DelCabon
Originally posted by lugal
Mmo= massive multiplayer online. What part of Destiny or The Crew not massive? Not multiplayer? Not online? The terns used continue to evolve. There is no set size to determine what is massive, so many online games are now mmo's, whether we as players agree or not. Online games now need proper suffix's to identify the game, mmofps, mmosprpg, mmorpg. Etc etc.
What this site is doing is fine by me and I support the broader use of mmo for this site. For we have fewer sites to browse these days.

Exactly.

It never ceases to amaze me how often peoples opinions are attacked for the simple reason of attracting more negative debate. The writer had an opinion that was well thought out and constructive. No-one is forcing you to agree or even click on the article. There is nothing constructive with making narrow vitriolic statements.

Personally I enjoyed reading the article and even learned of a new game (The Crew) that I had never heard of. I did not agree with everything but as I had nothing constructive to add or debate I didn't waste my time with a reply.

I seriously doubt any part of that article was written with advertisers in mind. It was simply one guys take on a subject relevant to this website.

Its not an opinion. MMO is not a genre. Its a definition. No room for opinions on this one I am afraid :)

 

You can have the opinion that the earth is flat, but its still wrong lol. 

Originally posted by Robsolf

Write like the wind, OP!

By that, I mean stop bitching about what the sitefolk are doing and show them something they can publish.  You might be surprised.

 

Actually, after I read about the fake MMO Hall of Fame, and saw they were voting for games such as League of Legends to enter the MMO HOF, I purchased my own site. I bought it to create one that has people who are involved in MMO's (playing or developing) to participate. Frankly, at my pace itll be a year or so when it launches. It wont be a complicated site by any means.

Either way, I am doing something about it. And I am not flaming/trolling people for once. Not angry either, I would just appreciate not having non MMO games advertised as MMO's.

I went into Destiny knowing it wasnt an MMO. But holy crap would I be upset if I didn't look things up and saw that there was only like 4 people playing the game with me in my world.

Originally posted by Foomerang

These forums need members who play MMOs.

Agreed! I play several! I play a few multiplayer games too. Right now I've got ESO, PlanetSide 2 and a couple other MMO's on the go. As for multiplayer games I've been playing LoL, Neverwinter, Path of Exile and several others.

 

 

Originally posted by Roin
Originally posted by turinmacleod

Perhaps this site could do with more open-minded fans who are willing to expand their gaming horizons? No?

 

T

  100%

Again, read my second post. I am not so sure why you guys are confused. I wrote clearly that I agree with content that isnt MMO being posted on here.

 

My issue was with that content being mislabeled as an MMO. If I want to search for an MMO, I want MMO games to come up. Not 32 player, or 5 vs 5 games.

Please read the post before making silly responses. :)

Originally posted by gervaise1
Originally posted by madazz

http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/9594/5-Awesome-BuytoPlay-MMOs.html#post

Destiny and The Crew are NOT MMO's.

Bungie themselves have weighed in on this, just like Arenanet did with Guild Wars. But some people are so out of the hobby/gaming they just cant fathom what MMO means.

"Not at all. Do you guys ever get tired of us insisting it's not an MMO? Debate about this game is always fun, and we welcome it," Bungie said

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/is-destiny-an-mmo-bungie-weighs-in/1100-6416234/

So not content with having dropped a dictionary on your foot in the 5 B2P MMO thread you have started a new one.

There are a number of reasons that developers do not want to call their games mmos:

  • the label itself has a bad rep
  • meaningless definition
  • if they say it is an mmo then some people will expect certain elements and others will expect certain other elements.This ties developers hands.. Their game is whatever their game is.
 
Zenimax, for example, said exactly the same thing about TESO: it's not an mmo.
 

An example: someone has just said that Destiny is not an mmo because it doesn't have voice chat. OK they haven't kept up with developments but - by that definition - UO, AC, EQ1, EQ2, DAoC, FFx, LotR and others are not "mmos".

And if Bungie had called Destiny an mmo and that person had bought the game they would have expected Destiny to have voice chat.  Even though there is a long history of mmos not having voice chat!

Indeed - based on history - not having voice chat makes a game a candidate for being an mmo!

This is why developers don't want to pigeon hole their games. If someone asks Bungie whether Destiny is a co-op game I am pretty sure they will have the same answer; ditto is it a first person shooter etc. etc. Someone somewhere will have a mental picture of what such and such a game is and if a developer says it is X  people will have an expectation. So Destiny is Destiny. WoW is WoW. TESO is TESO and so on. By avoiding labels developers minimise the risk of disappointing people. They minimise the charge that they "misrepresented" the product. People might be disappointed but they can't say it should have had X because the developers called it so and so.

Clear?

 

You are very far off base as to your reasoning. Developers actually want to call there game MMO's. Its not that they don't want too. So you just created a weird false argument there. LOL. Hell, even Elite Dangerous with is a 32 player game max is advertising itself as an MMO on steaam.

 

Clear? 

 

Im not even going to respond to your other numerous off topic responses.

Originally posted by observer

Haha, you actually made a thread about this?  It seems it must have really annoyed you.

@OP, Let's hear your definition of an MMO.  You'll get dozens of different replies as to what an MMO truly is.  The fact is, there isn't an official definition (wikipedia & online dictionaries don't count), and there never will be.

An MMO is composed of many different concepts and protocols, which is ever-changing.

Massively Multiplayer Online is the definition..... I don't understand how that can confuse a lot of you. MMO is literally the definition. Its not a genre that can be argued. Its a description of the game. MMORPG is a genre. MMO is a descriptor. It is defined already. It has nothing to do with a persistent or open world like some confused people state. Its all about how many people are playing together. If the game is segregated into 5vs5, thats only 10 people playing together. That is not massive. Chess is not a massive multiplayer game just because millions play it.

Originally posted by turinmacleod

Perhaps this site could do with more open-minded fans who are willing to expand their gaming horizons? No?

 

T

Read my second post please :)

 

"m"

Originally posted by ragz45
Originally posted by madazz
Originally posted by Bascola
Well, MMORGPS are declining so they need to add advertisement revenue from other genres. They can't rename the site...

And I have said multiple times I have no problem with that. But they made a list of 5 mmos that are buy to play. Out of that list of 5, only 3 are MMORPGs's. 

 

I would gladly read articles, and I have, about non mmo games on this site. Such as Path of Exile which I enjoy very much. But I don't want to eagerly look at an article about MMO's only to find standard multiplayer games in there. If its labeled MMO I want an MMO!

 

You don't go out asking for apples and settle with an egg do ya? Its not even the same damn thing. Both are edible and it ends there.

Fixed it for you

You didn't fix anything. I wrote what I intended. All 5 games were called an MMO, yet two are not.

Originally posted by Bascola
Well, MMORGPS are declining so they need to add advertisement revenue from other genres. They can't rename the site...

And I have said multiple times I have no problem with that. But they made a list of 5 mmos that are buy to play. Out of that list of 5, only 3 are MMO's. 

 

I would gladly read articles, and I have, about non mmo games on this site. Such as Path of Exile which I enjoy very much. But I don't want to eagerly look at an article about MMO's only to find standard multiplayer games in there. If its labeled MMO I want an MMO!

 

You don't go out asking for apples and settle with an egg do ya? Its not even the same damn thing. Both are edible and it ends there.

Originally posted by Cecropia
Originally posted by madazz

GW1 is not an MMO. Get this in your skull man. 

 

Also, Destiny and The Crew are not MMOs.

ArenaNet themselves were clear about that. This nonsense was hilarious a couple of years ago, now it's just sad.

 

I know. Its so frustrating. I want to click an article about 5 buy to play MMO's and 2 out of the 5 are not.

 

Here is a link where even bungie tries to explain to deaf ears, that Destiny is NOT an mmo.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/is-destiny-an-mmo-bungie-weighs-in/1100-6416234/

 

Why should developers have to explain this? ITS NOT A GENRE. ITS A DEFINED DESCRIPTION.

 
Originally posted by Torval

Originally posted by observer

Originally posted by Torval
Originally posted by rojoArcueid
Replace The Crew and Destiny with Guild Wars 1 and its three separate campaigns and you have a much better list full of games that are totally worth purchasing.

Agreed. I think GW1 deserves a place on the list for setting the trend in mmos so long ago and proving the concept works. It still has a lot of charm and some of its mechanics are unique in the implementation (shutdown, interrupt, and the like as class roles). Classes like mesmer that brought a whole new dimension to crowd control.

I love 1 - 3, but right now ESO and LotRO are the main games I'm playing.

The hater posts are hilarious. I love watching them twist in their skin. They say nerd rage is the funniest rage.

The problem is, GW1 is so old now, and it's practically in maintenance mode now.  

It is totally in maintenance mode, but it's still a good game.

Originally posted by dumpcat
"MMO – but by most definitions it does qualify. If games like Neverwinter, Guild Wars 1, and other similar lobby-esque systems qualify for the MMO tag, Destiny should as well." Actually GW1 was never considered an MMO even by it's own devs, and only people new to the genre think Neverwinter or Destiny are MMOs.

Neverwinter is an mmo. It has persistent public zones. They are accessed through a map, but that doesn't make it lobby based. It makes the game map based. Players can go meet each other out in game zones and play together. The difference between GW1 and Neverwinter is that players could only ever meet in hubs and once they entered an instance it was private to that group.

 

Ok, I will try to get this through to you... an MMO is a game that has a massive amount of people playing the game together. By together, I mean they can all interact in the same virtual environment at once. Neverwinter has a hub, but its gameplay is severely limited in the amount of players in one instance. Its not an MMO! Just like Guildwars wasnt. Which the developers and players have tried to explain to your type for years. Just like how Bungie tried to explain that Destiny is not an MMO.

 

Don't pretend to understand things you clearly don't. To argue something so out of your element is crazy.

To the author who is new to MMO's it appears, GW1 is not an MMO. The developers have cleared this up.

 

Also, MMO is defined. It cannot be disputed. It is a description, not a genre. Destiny does not fit that description. Your whole argument for containing two multiplayer games in an MMO article is stupid.

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