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All Posts by muppetpilot

All Posts by muppetpilot

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47 posts found
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by muppetpilot

I think that many times, when the term "WoW Clone" is used in derogatory fashion or when hatred is spit at Blizzard or WoW, it generally comes from jealousy.  I would like all of the anti-WoW fanbois to name one, just ONE, mmo that has even sniffed the success that WoW has had.

What does success have to do with anything? The most successful musicians are not the best musicians, the most successful fast food chains are not the best food. It seems subscription numbers is the only thing WoW fans can lay claim to to defend their game. The gameplay doesn't stand up on its own.

I think that most of the WoW haters wish their game was a "WoW Clone" in terms of playability a nonsense word, if you mean how casual it is, or good for casual players, there are literally hundreds of WoW clones that are just as casual, and tons of games aimed at younger audiences that are even more casual than WoW, ease of UI control most MMOs these days have the same UI that WoW has, which is a pretty shitty UI. And WoW is not the only MMO to allow custom UI by any stretch, flow of combat again, dozens of other MMOs have this, stability of economy not only is that laughably false, but that's not really a big selling point, size of player base not relavent even a little, unless you're pointing out how obnoxious most of the WoW community is, next, and responsiveness Yes, WoW is responsive. NO WoW is not the only responsive MMO, or the most responsive. .  Again, much of the hatred simply comes from jealousy. No, it comes from how shitty the genre has become after WoW's success. Even if you like WoW, how can you possibly say its a good thing that all MMOs after it are just copy and pasted WoW clones? There's already a WoW for people who like WoW.  How many so-called "WoW killers" have we seen over the past several years? None, because WoW is a fluke that sprang from timing and marketing, not its design or features. No sensible person ever used the word WoW killer.  Do a little research and you'll find that almost all of those games are f2p now.

Do a little research and you'll realize that WoW has very little to it that deserves praise.

Perhaps you yourself should "do a little research" and find that most people, myself included, never intimated that WoW changed or introduced anything to the genre - in fact, I would surmise that the original EQ would be more accurately described as an innovator than WoW.  However, WoW has done quite a bit to deserve praise for keeping its players around and interested.

And apparently it has done quite a bit more than whatever game you're such a raving fanboi for.  Just because you don't like WoW most certainly doesn't detract from its success or from anything I said.

"Do a little research", sir, and you'll discover also that the word "WoW killer" is thrown around time and time again and yet, to this point, has ALWAYS failed to live up to itself.  So whether you like the game or not, there are evidently quite a number of things it does right.  Whether it deserves praise for innovation or originality is moot now, over nine years after its inception.  How about you just get over your dislike of it, eh?


I think that many times, when the term "WoW Clone" is used in derogatory fashion or when hatred is spit at Blizzard or WoW, it generally comes from jealousy.  I would like all of the anti-WoW fanbois to name one, just ONE, mmo that has even sniffed the success that WoW has had.  Can't help but notice the absolute silence when that question is asked.

And believe me, I am no WoW fanboi.  The game is a good one but it has its warts, just like any other video game, mmo or otherwise.  That being said, though, it has done a sensational job of not only hanging on to its existing players but also bringing new ones into the fold, especially with its expansions; WoD will be no different.  I would expect that once this new expansion launches, WoW will probably surpass ten million subscribers again.

I think that most of the WoW haters wish their game was a "WoW Clone" in terms of playability, ease of UI control, flow of combat, stability of economy, size of player base, and responsiveness.  Again, much of the hatred simply comes from jealousy.  How many so-called "WoW killers" have we seen over the past several years?  Do a little research and you'll find that almost all of those games are f2p now. 

It makes very little difference what their ultimate development costs become or how said costs were applied to the differing facets of the game.  If this game doesn't live up to its massive expectations, then nine months after launch it'll be going F2P and we will all be reading about how "excited!" the developers are to do so.  We'll get that tired old song and dance about "play your way" or something similar if the sub model fails, no matter how much Zenimax has ponied up for this thing.

And don't forget, F2P is our Great Friend and Savior, and developers who launch sub games are totally planning their F2P transitions even before launch. Lol.

Originally posted by Siphaed

You make an inflammatory post with no substance for the sole purpose of trolling and baiting others, and you wonder why you're banned from the forums?   


Do you ever think before you speak publicly?  Because on the forums it doesn't seem to be the case.   Just as these forums, so are other ones:  don't post "flame bait", don't troll, and don't be a tool.    It's simple etiquette that anyone can follow. 

Interesting that you would say that to someone, considering the fact that you yourself show up on multiple MMO blog sites and take any opportunity to troll and flame against WoW, FF Xiv, or basically any game not named "Gw 2."

Do YOU ever think before you speak?  Or do you just do whatever Daddy ANet tells you to do?  What a hypocritical post.  I have seen you repeatedly bash games you don't even play and rise up in fanboi ire any time someone makes a remotely negative comment about Gw 2.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

I never played EQ or EQ II at all (not sure why) but would happily play EQN just so I can forge a small valley and a few hills outside of my home into the shape of a nude woman.  Yessir, Gentle Slopes Valley, lol.  Or perhaps I'll cut and polish the tree in my yard til it becomes a shiny, big-eyed naked anime girl, woot!  Considering that the appearance and engine in this game are going to be miles beyond anything like Minecraft, I'd have to say that the possibilities will be almost endless.

In all seriousness though...this is unfortunate to say but the EQN devs will probably have to spend quite a few man-hours policing their own game just to look for things like this.  Perma-bans for things that are overtly offensive, I would guess?  The problem I see is, what happens when a player or number of players winds up creating something that could be construed as somewhat sexual, even though that wasn't their intent?  I mean, do you warn or ban those people even though any offense came essentially by accident?

Like I said, it's unfortunate because some innocents (or near-innocents) will probably suffer since we all know that in all likelihood their WILL be a 200-foot penis somewhere, and someone probably WILL beat me to making a nude-girl yard decoration.  I think that sometimes players having too much freedom is what has generally kept me away from most sandboxes; not that all of the creation tools EQN is boasting will be bad things, mind you, it's just that they are coming boxed with Player Idiocy, and that's going to make for some interesting situations.

Well I can't speak for anyone else, and I am one of those people who doesn't really get involved with crowd-funding or its ilk.  And I have been burned in the past by pre-ordering games that wound up being awful (Gw 2 being my worst case, personally), so basically at this point I like to think that I wait things out.

That being said, I can sort of understand peoples' excitement when it comes to new games and the promise they hold.  Although I must say that as far as the subject matter of your post goes, I partially blame developers and publishers (and blog/gaming sites such as this one) for the nigh-unending hype they heap upon many of these upcoming games.  I swear, if I see the words "innovative!" and "groundbreaking!" applied to one more upcoming game.....ugh.

I am a gamer too, though, and so I can empathize with why some people do the things you're talking about: funnel money into an unfinished product, pre-order games months before release (oftentimes without ever being involved in a beta), "sell" their buddies on buying the game also...I think we all know how that excitement and that hope of something better can grab you.  There are a few games that I love and have played for years, but most games aren't like that.  It's easy to get bored or, failing that, just to basically be ready for something new.  And with the advent of the internet has also come the advent of the aforementioned hype machine, ever ready to chew up even more gamers who have a little money socked away.

As to specifically why people do this, given the track record of many failed games and the fact that games are almost never what they are hyped up to be prior to release, I honestly don't know.  As I said, I've been burned enough to make me shy away from funding unfinished products and from jumping on the "Latest WoW Killer" bandwagon; I'm old enough to know better.  It's unfortunate, but that's generally what it takes to make someone stay away from this week's Hype Train and stick with what they know.  Anyway, that's my two cents.

Originally posted by Pigglesworth

All these people that just want a single player game should go back into their mother's basement, log into whatever single-player ES game they want and just play with them self all day. Its what they like. Most of them would be playing with themselves in an MMO anyways, because they are obviously incapable of finding any friends, even in the online world.

So, if you only like single player games, why are you even on a MMO forum?

So, go play with yourself. That way you don't have to hear all of us telling you that you are doing it wrong.

And if you don't know how to speak to people decently, or get your point across without insulting someone else, then why are YOU on an MMO forum?

From the wording of your post, all of it completely unnecessary and uncalled for, it sounds as if YOU are the one who is incapable of finding any friends.  People who are happy and satisfied with themselves generally don't feel the need to belittle others, either in forums or in real life.  The hatred and vitriol in posts like yours tells the rest of us everything we need to know about you.  What a lonely, miserable existence you must lead.

When's the last time YOU came out of the basement, eh? 

Originally posted by Pigglesworth
Originally posted by muppetpilot

I'm a TES fan and also a longtime MMO player, but they lost me at the whole "PvP economy" and the plan to allow people to join 5 or 10 guilds or whatever it is.  No idea why players should be limited in their participation in the in-game economy by PvP and/or guild objectives.  I fear this has the potential to lead to a lot of guild elitism and shunning of smaller, social guilds.

If you ask me, any sort of factor that limits player choice in an MMO is a bad idea.  No auction house in a game projected to be as big as this one is just foolish.  Just my one-and-a-half cents but I cannot understand tying the selling of one's wares to a guild/alliance or to PvP objectives.  That just screams of an economy that is going to be completely controlled by certain guilds or alliances.

Or, players can bring back the social aspects of the game, declare another area to be the selling area and talk with each other like the good old days. No one says you have to buy from the guild stores. Find a player you like and buy from them instead.

EQ1 had Commonlands markets long before any kind of broker/marketplace came into the game.

Or, how about simply having an AH or TP so that people can participate in the economy when they want to, instead of having to seek out certain people to trade with?  Or, what about the casual players who simply want to play the market for a few hours before going to bed?  What about giving those people a worldwide trade option - hence the AH or trading post or whatever term you prefer - instead of sending them to guild stores?  To my original point, and the thing that really keeps me away from ESO for now:  why would you limit those peoples' ability to help forge and maintain an in-game economy?

Or, if you want a player-controlled economy, why not do it like Guild Wars 1?  No AH, but a trade channel that runs 24/7 and most certainly does not require any sort of guild affiliation or PvP objectives to be completed. 

You're right, you can always buy through your friends list or what have you, but what happens when you've got wares to sell and those people either aren't online or are busy?  There is a reason AH systems work so well, and there are reasons why, as I said, limiting player choice is a bad idea.

I'm a TES fan and also a longtime MMO player, but they lost me at the whole "PvP economy" and the plan to allow people to join 5 or 10 guilds or whatever it is.  No idea why players should be limited in their participation in the in-game economy by PvP and/or guild objectives.  I fear this has the potential to lead to a lot of guild elitism and shunning of smaller, social guilds.

If you ask me, any sort of factor that limits player choice in an MMO is a bad idea.  No auction house in a game projected to be as big as this one is just foolish.  Just my one-and-a-half cents but I cannot understand tying the selling of one's wares to a guild/alliance or to PvP objectives.  That just screams of an economy that is going to be completely controlled by certain guilds or alliances.

Originally posted by vmoped
Originally posted by DMKano


I hope it does OK, I know some great folks working at Zenimax.


That article actually lowered my respect for Massively.  There are so many contradictions in it.  FFiVX game of the year (a sub model game), yet sub models are the "biggest blunder"....  That is just one example.  Just a poorly done opinion piece that has no credibility and obviously no logical standard to base their awards on.


Massively is pretty horrid overall, anyway.  The site is obviously paid to promote Guild Wars 2 and yet they continually deny that this is the case; how anyone could construe those silly 8-bit jumping puzzles as an "expansion of the year" is beyond me.  Massively has done nothing but over-hype that game from day one and continues to sugarcoat everything that it contains.  One of the main reasons I quit reading anything of theirs is because every third "article" is about Gw 2 and their resident  fanbois rave on and on with no moderation. 

Not only that, but the site is clearly anti-Sub anything.  They post article after article about shiny, happy f2p models and decry sub games every chance they get.  Like you said, much of what they post is just poorly done opinion pieces.  If their revenue is coming from f2p supporters and Gw 2 promotion that's fine, but the least they could do is be honest about it. 

Originally posted by Pigglesworth
Personally, I hope all you haters buy the game, hate it, and leave. That way they cover their development costs, get rid of the whiniest players, and can devote future development to people that actually want to enjoy the game.

You do realize, do you not, that many of the people you so brashly call "haters" are those of us who actually have played the Beta and who want the game to succeed but that were disappointed by our play experience?  That much of the "hate" you seem to deride so much is just criticism about a title that at this stage has simply not lived up to its hype?  It's not any of us testers' faults if we have issues with the game; that's just the way things go.

Personally, I hope all you fanbois eventually learn that just because someone speaks negatively about his or her experience with a game, such criticism does not make that person a "hater."  Why you would so ardently defend a game that hasn't even released is just beyond reason, anyway.

Did you even stop to consider that many of the people who have given Zenimax less-than-satisfied feedback "want to enjoy the game" as much as you profess to?  Oh, I suppose not, since those people must automatically be "haters"....

I've been in the RoS beta for a bit now and it pains me to say this, because I loved the original, but I am not impressed.  There are several aspects of the expansion that were promised and have not been delivered, the new Act V is very short, and the "endgame" that many of us have been asking for - something engaging and less repetitive - is simply not there.

This is just my opinion, and I'm sure many will differ, but it most certainly is not what I expected.  There are some lengthy forum threads that talk about the D3 dev team promising features that have yet to show up, and thus far I think the reaction in those threads has been pretty close to my own.  Yes, it's just forum threads, but it seems as though quite a few beta players have thus far been disappointed.

No loot runs(which were promised), drop rates still essentially set to "loot pinata", the removal of all player trading unless you're grouped at the time of the drop...and honestly I think the removal of the AH is a bad idea.  The "new" Hellfire Rings are just as bad as the old ones...anyway I don't mean for this to be a rant so I'll stop there.

I had tons of fun with "vanilla" D3 so I really can't complain but for me, RoS is simply more of the same. 

Originally posted by Foomerang

I think WoW just may take its biggest subscription hit when this game launches. And I think Blizzard knows it.

Yes, because all of the other "WoW-killers" we have seen over the past nine years have been hugely successful, haven't they?

How many of those games are still even operating under a sub model?  Zero, I do believe.

WoW is losing subs because it is approaching TEN years old, not because of some outside factor.  Nothing lasts forever.  It is utterly unbelievable, the fact that WildStar isn't even out yet and it's being heralded as something magical.

I'm pretty sure the thing Blizzard "knows" better than anything else is how to laugh all the way to the bank while watching their competition go from sub to f2p.

And no, I don't play WoW.  I have in the past but it's been quite a while.  But I certainly know better than to make these "prophetic" posts.

The OP raises a really good question, and honestly this is something that may never truly be answered.

I've had the distinct pleasure of playing both p2p and f2p games for years now, so here's my three cents:  I completely understand that an f2p game is still ultimately designed to make money.  My issue with many of the offerings I have played is that often times, it feels as though players are being herded towards the cash shop for bare necessities, and I can't help but think that such a business model is wrong.  Not earth-shakingly, human-rights-violation wrong, but wrong nonetheless.

I suppose one example that is undoubtedly going to be tossed around here is SWToR's limitation on action bars.  Now, here's the thing with that:  to actually unlock the bars is a small expense - I believe around five bucks?  I may be wrong on the actual amount; one of you vets may have to straighten me out on that.  My issue with this is that action bars are ultimately necessary in order to properly enjoy a game.  I've always been of the opinion that a cash shop should be mostly cosmetic and booster-oriented, or perhaps offer helping-type items that make a player's quality of game life a bit better.  I realize that five dollars or so is a very small number, and pales in comparison to the amount I paid in WoW sub fees over the years, but it's the nature of the necessary item or feature that makes such a thing seem off to me.  If I'm going to put money into an f2p game (and I have done so quite a bit over the years), it's because I was able to play the game enough to decide that I enjoyed it, and so my purchases are a form of support for the devs, a "job well done", if you will.

My problem is that if you're cutting out necessary game features and locking them behind paywalls, I don't think you're letting people decide whether or not they like your game enough first.  I know there are plenty of SWToR fanbois who will deride me for saying this, but let's face it:  action bars are necessary for your enjoyment of a game.  Reducing the number of available bars is reducing player choice, and that is never a good thing in an MMO.

Another case in point:  Blade and Soul.  I waited two years to play that game, finally got my chance right before Thanksgiving when the Chinese open beta let everyone in.  Wonderfully beautiful and fun game, and I was having a blast until I discovered that simply opening up my inventory and warehouse beyond a certain point required - yep, you guessed it - a cash shop purchase.  Again, I just found this to be excessive.  Anyone who's played MMOs knows how important inventory management is, especially when you're gathering and crafting and hanging on to items you  may need down the line.  I was only able to open a small portion of my inventory and warehouse with in-game gold, and then the game began requiring a cash-shop item to unlock any more.  By level 23 I was literally and completely out of space in my warehouse, and honestly with the lack of content in BnS I wasn't going to shunt money into it just to have access to some bag space. 

THAT is the sort of thing that can run people hot.  Things like action bars and bag space should at the very least be unlockable with in-game funds.  Denying players access to core needs like space and skill slots is just too much, if you ask me.  I'm sure plenty of folks are just fine with that, because as I said, f2p devs need money too, but herding players towards their credit cards simply because they need something they can't get any other way is just bad business, if you ask me.

Dear OP,


(1) ALL mmo's and their ilk are "letdowns" in one way or another for the people who wind up not liking them.

(2) It is impossible to create a game that will appeal to everyone, regardless of the game's quality.

(3) There is a very simple reason why Coke and Pepsi are unable to put each other out of business, and don't even try to do so:  because not everyone is going to like Coke, and not everyone is going to like Pepsi.  Even if Pepsi gave away its product for free, many people would still drink Coke.

(4) One of the primary reasons that WoW and Guild Wars 1 have survived for so long is because they have been able to appeal to more folks than their competition and have been able to retain player interest for years.  Unfortunately, we have not seen this sort of quality in basically any other game to be released in the past several years.  Therefore, it is highly unlikely we will ever see another mmo with the player base that those two games have enjoyed, ever.  Ergo, essentially any game launched now can easily be called a "letdown."

(5) Coming onto these forums and handing down judgment on a game that hasn't even been released and that 99% of us haven't even touched, is every bit as idiotic as the threads we see claiming that something like WildStar is the Messiah of MMOs or that ESO is going to be "innovative" or "groundbreaking."  We have zero information on these games with which to make these ridiculous claims, be they fanboi drivel or hatred.

(6) If you don't want to play SC, then don't play it.  I highly doubt I will be playing it, but that is no reason for me to come here and trash it.



Hmm...."a formidable MMO", eh?

Sure is some mighty formidable praise, considering the game hasn't even released and 99% of us haven't even touched a Beta version.

What an utterly ridiculous thing to say about an over-hyped game, that has yet to deliver on ANY of its so-called "innovative!" and "groundbreaking!" claims.  Remember all the things ANet claimed about Gw 2?  And how many of those claims turned out to be utter lies? this site being paid to promote WildStar?  You know, the same way in which Massively is paid to promote Gw 2, even though they continually deny it?

Just wondering...

Here's a really simple two cents that many of these discussions seem to miss entirely, or which often is just buried by blind rage and elitism:

Player CHOICE: good or bad?  Pretty sure most of us with even a modicum of common sense would say that player choice is good, eh?  As a matter of fact, the most successful MMOs in history (I would argue that WoW and Gw 1 hold that title, although some of you may interject others as your opinions go) provided the most player choice of them all, hence their long-term success.

And so, when it comes to dungeon finders or LFD or LFG: if you don't like them, don't use them. It really is as simple as that. If you've always got 16 buddies online or believe for some reason that LFG tools are for noobs, then simply put, don't use them. These tools are OPTIONAL, not required. I've used them quite a bit and love them; however, this does not mean that everyone will agree, or that everyone will use them.

Why these arguments even ensue is beyond me. What other players do with THEIR play time, and how other people choose to progress through THEIR content, is none of my business, and none of yours, either.

That simple enough?

For me, the problem with MoP wasn't the dailies or the pandas.  What got me to un-sub finally was the horrific changes they made to PvP, basically beginning with the launch of MoP and getting worse from then on out.  Grossly overpowered warriors and hunters (still), and other classes being nerfed into the ground...and honestly the biggest problem now is the way in which they have handed out 72 percent damage reduction vs. other players to Everyman. WoW is, and always has been, a gear-based game, so when you tell PvPers that suddenly their gear means nothing because everyone has the same damage reduction and PvE gear has become more viable for PvP than the PvP gear, I'm not quite sure how that begets "balance" or all of a sudden makes "skill" important in PvP. I understand that most of WoW's population is made up of people who primarily do PvE, but PvPers pay sub fees also. So whenever anyone talks about how Blizz is supposedly "listening to its players," well, I'm still waiting for them to actually listen to PvPers and revert this foolish business of making every noob instantly competitive in PvP without doing any work towards it whatsoever, whilst the rest of us spent time and effort to acquire PvP gear, which as I said is now basically meaningless. They can add all the housing and PvE content they want to WoD; unless they balance classes properly and roll back this "normalized" PvP system, I'm staying un-subbed.

I think this is one of those topics in which the OP gets flamed a lot but has a valid point.  I am a very social gamer, I love guild chat and world chat and trade chat and you name it; I've made a lot of online friends in MMOs and spent many a night having a rollicking good time goofing off in-game with other people.

That being said, I also greatly enjoy playing solo when I am out and about, primarily when I am just simply trying to get things done.  I don't have any idea where some of these so-called "purists" and elitists get their idea that an MMO should be played in group format all of the time or that we should be dependent upon others 24/7, especially since many of us play at odd hours and are becoming more and more dependent upon auto-grouping features, which can produce some highly undesirable results at times.

This subject is indeed a lot like that quote about society that someone already mentioned here; MMOs are tons of fun for the same reasons that they can become a pain. 

I totally feel what you're saying, OP, and I think I agree with your general idea: boy, there are a heck of a lot of games out there, eh?  And the unfortunate part of that is that we do indeed see a huge number of cookie-cutter f2p crapfests, not to mention even sub games that have turned out not to be worth their own fees.

Thing is, the sheer number of MMOs out now, while perhaps causing people like me and you pause, is actually an indicator of a game genre that is already booming and yet still growing.  So, even whilst we peruse these websites and blogs and marvel at there being yet another 2,416 f2p MMOs launched since last week, I think we should ultimately be grateful that the market is in the shape it's in.  Regardless of the arguments over payment models and PvP systems and what have you, I'd have to say that there is definitely a game out there for everyone's tastes in the MMO universe.

I know what you mean about pining for the days when MMOs were fewer and further between and felt more...solid, maybe?  But even if that were still the case, there are any number of gamers who are essentially tire-kickers or just happen to be MMO drifters, and there's nothing wrong with that even though it's not my way of doing things.  Some folks just don't want to stick with one game for years and so at some point I think the MMO market began to reflect that.  Plus you have to remember that in some other cultures, particularly in the East, even though they tend to be more communal than we are, many of the people have a tendency to hit max level in one game and then move along to the next to do the same thing.  This is one of the reasons we have seen such an explosion in f2p titles over the past several years; people all over the place have basically shown that their loyalty may or may not be long-term.

And honestly, I doubt the games are actually killing each other, even though it certainly seems that the selection list is probably too long.  No matter how great your game is or how long it hangs on, you just can't keep everyone around forever and it's impossible to make an MMO that would appeal to all MMO players.  So I'm thinking that selection list will actually keep growing for the foreseeable future.

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