Originally posted by Smikis

how exactly do you call this victory... oh wait, lets get aoc shut down , so all of you can jump in joy tomorrow.

while im not playing game atm, i do not see hows having horrible success for game benefits us gamers in any way, less money most of the time = less updates due to less ppl

or complete game shutdown = we paid , and we got nothing out of it now

 

reality check mr op ?

It is a victory because it is a lesson for other developers that you cant release a buggy, incomplete game in a pretty package and using a big name (Conan) and expect to be succesful. Hopefully there will be some other company that makes something good of the Conan IP than this piece of crap excuse of an MMORPG.

Are we seeing the end of AoC?

Originally posted by Coman

Did someone gank you once in a game or something? You have not played the game and are extreamly judgemental. Not only that, so are you over me! I want to play the game DF, I also play WAR and will most likely play both as long as my income allows and depending on whatever I like DF enough or not.

I am by no means a ganker nor will the game be about ganking. While killing other players will be importend, you can not just run around killing everyone, becouse you will be on the Kill on sight list of many many guilds (true you can run around killing everone, but it will be an hard route to take many do not want to venture). However try to avoid to judge a game you have not played. You can have an opinion about the ideas of the game, but do not present them as if they are facts.

I dont have to play a game to know how it will be like, judging from the ruleset. Also I have over 12 years of MMORPG experience and know how harsch unrestricted PvP can be like. Add full loot to that and the inability to watch your back (by panning the camera around) and you're in a world of grief.

I picked Other because I feel the biggest misstake they made was to make the game too casual. No death penalty, no big penalty for losing a keep or even your city. All made this way to cater to the casuals who doesnt want to put effort in gaming and basically want everything handed to them.

If they just made some more hardcore servers with somewhat higher penalties and bigger penalties for losing a zone or your city I think more people would play the game. Right now the game is fun but after a while you just feel like you are at a themepark and there is no real incentive to fight for anything.

Originally posted by sgel

Maybe you should talk to people who actually play the beta (like me) instead of listening to morons.

Yeah people who doesnt agree with me are morons. Typical response from a cool/lewt dude. They say they are in beta and say its full of bugs, you say you are in beta and say it isnt. Considering they didnt call people who dont agree with them for morons I think I will listen to them

The game is ridicoulously more PvP oriented than WAR... it's not a safe environment and there's penalties when you give someone else a kill.... i.e. you lose all your belongings (except for the things in your bank).... which is basicaly the purest form of PvP.... reality works like this...

Purest forms of PvP? No, its the purest forms of griefing/ganking. PvP means player versus player, it in no way says that the loser should lose everything. It is like saying a boxing match to the death is the purest form of boxing. No it isnt, it is the most savage form of boxing.

Ganking isn't a spell as you call it (lol)... it's a maneuver you perform when you incapasitate someone... you can choose to leave them be, revive them or gank them and take their stuff.
Doesn't that sound better than just letting them respawn ?... how is that pure PvP?... where is my satisfaction?... where is the actual penalty so I care if I die?...

The satisfaction is in competing against players and not AI, not a sadistic satisfaction knowing that the people you die will lose everything they got.

WHAT the hell is the point in killing people if they respawn exactly the same as before?...

Oh I dunno, maybe because you have other objectives for killing people than causing them grief?

and I'm not even going to go into the whole skill discussion.
Watch some proper Darkfall PvP videos and compare them to WoW/WAR/ and all other EQ clones...

Oh and I just realized you like Scenarios.... ... but I guess that's fine if you like other people to tell you how to play a game instead of having complete freedom.

Let me finish that sentance for you: instead of having complete freedom to grief people.

Again this has nothing to do with PvP but rather that you want to have the freedom to grief people. That is a whole different thing entirely. Again calling people who doesnt enjoy the same things as you for a Nut Job. This is again typicaly griefer/ganker mentality and which you will find plenty of in Darkfall.

The thing is you really dont want PvP, you want to degreade and grief people because that somehow makes you feel better. That is what Darkfall is about, allowing to put the maximum grief on other people you defeat.

Darkfall will get players from WAR... but don't worry... the carebears will still remain in your beloved scenarios... enjoy the stories people put you in... and let me enjoy making my own.

 Carebear was a term used for people who like PvE, not for people who like PvP without the grief element. In WAR, on O-RvR servers, you can attack and kill someone pretty much everywhere (beside in cities/warcamps and sometimes even in cities) the difference is that you cant grief people since they wont lose much when dying.

So again, just because you like griefing does not make more of a PvPer than me. I have played MMORPGs since the launch of UO and I have always picked PvP centered MMORPGs where Asheron Call on Darktide was my favourite.

What make that game great, and Darkfall rubbish, is that on Darktide server there was some balance. On death you only dropped a set of items, not all, and some quest items were undroppable and combine that with the radar that the game had, which allowed you to spot if someone was about to gank you, that created a balanced game where PvP was unrestricted yet it was manageable since you didnt lose everything.

WARs death penalties are way too light and Darkfalls way too heavy but since I play games to enjoy myself and I dont enjoy myself when griefing people, or get griefed by other people, then I will pick WAR over Darkfall anytime.

Btw I can bet that you PvP alot more in WAR than in Darkfall since in WAR you can advance your character solely through PvP (again scenarios that you hate so much). In Darkfall you repeteadly use a skill to level it which probably means most people will do AFK macroing. Thats pure PvP for you!

 

His post pretty much sums up why only gankers will like the game. Underlined the interesting parts.

I hear some people saying that the release of Darkfall will affect the numbers playing WAR but after talking with people in beta I strongly doubt it.

Basically Darkfall is geared to be a ganking game where you drop everything when you get ganked (they even call the spell when u loot someone for "ganking") and also they have made it intentionally hard to circle the camera around and look behind you. Just so it will be easier to gank.

So the game, beside being full of bugs, is catered solely towards the hardcore gankers and I really am thankful WAR eliminated the need of ganking by having an easily accessable PvP system (=scenarios).

PS. Not saying WAR is perfect but as a PvP game it is much better implemented than Darkfall which is a 100% ganking game.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by warty

now you're talking about a different part of my post. we both agree that is a skill, which is why i said about using a crossbow. only the first number of times you use it is simply firing the thing going to gain you much skill, thus afterwards you have to learn things like targetting and actually hitting things to get better. this we agree on, and it was around this point i made the post mocking magicing into the air as a permanent way of levelling the skill

 

however the 'dead points' between skill levels are just a thinly veiled exp bar. having tiers between output increases takes further away from skill progression based gameplay and further towards level based. it was this I called shennanigans on because you were agruing the semantics of whether levelling everything or levelling a select stat is level based or not.

 

assuming the two points were made of you, its getting late, could have been two seperate people

 

Not really the difference between Level and skill are a bit easy.

 

At level 10 in a level based system I have to go kill a mob that gives me XP in order to get any kind of gain.

 

In a skill based system I can pretty much go fight anything and get skill ups. I don't have to fight things my level, because well, there are no levels.

 

 

That is not quite true. In a skill based game you should fight mobs that match your skill levels. So someone with poor skills in fighting should not go up against a dragon and expect to have a chance.

So skill-levels or rather how skilled you are in a certain area certainly exist in a skill based game. How otherwise would you measure how well your character performs the skill?

Big difference between a skill based game and a level based game is that levels, not skill levels, influence the effectiveness of your skills and abilities where as in skill based games the skill level influence the effectiveness of your skills and abilities. Furthermore level based games often put skill restrictions on what kind of skills your class can have, skill based games usually give much more freedom in that area.

Originally posted by warty

 

I really like this part about the games defense. it takes skill to point at nothing. i mean there is so much to point at that finding that space of nothing requires dedication! as I said before I think most here are simply trying to hide behind their ability to macro and keep it that way.

 

other than maybe very low skills poitning at the air shouldnt give you skill. anybody can practice firing a crossbow into the air to get used to the mechanics of said crossbow. after that only hitting something and actually getting used to targetting is the way skill increases (talking IRL here). People arguing skill gains from no targets are realistic should wake up to this point.

and yes, it is level based! really now! say it with me, skill LEVELS are LEVELS!

You are arguing two different points here. First of all skill levels is NOT the same as levels. Levels are not tied to any particular skill where as skill levels are, thats a major difference and the difference lies in that you as a player has control as to what skills to raise.

Then your second point is about how raising skills are done and there I agree that you should not be gaining any skill points in doing the same thing over and over again (such as hitting in the air). The skill gain should depend on the target, if there is one for said skill, and if there is none and gaining can only be done by using it without a target (such as running) then the gain should be exponential. Meaning the more you do it the less will the gain be/time.

Hold on. A level based game is where you get exp, for mostly killing stuff and finishing quests, and then when you ding to the next level then you can get new skills, your attribs go up and so on. These skills are usually tied to your class.

A skill based game is where either you use a skill to advance the skill or you use exp to raise a skill, any skill. The difference may be subtle but the outcome is that in skill based games you as a player have more control as to what skills you have but as in level based games you gain levels and only a limited set of skills are available to you.

Hope they add it, or atleast future MMORPGs do, because I think there are alot of us that doesnt want to be bothered with PvE when there are thousands of players to fight against instead.

What really killed this game for me and same reason for why I am playing WAR now is that in AoC you can only advance in levels by doing PvE and there is a seperate leveling system for PvP meaning you have to do PvE to advance.

So my question is, as I didnt try PvP mini-games, is it possible to get "regular" exp from doing some form PvP and if so is it feasible to advance your character only exclusively by doing PvP (as it is in WAR)?

If not has this been mentioned by the devs that it will be implemented?

Originally posted by ObliviousX

Originally posted by finaticd

War takes more skills per 10 seconds than AoC...........7 or so VS. 3 per AoC that's because AoC's controls are very dumbed down.  So your argument is War's are bad yet AoC's are 3 times worse? please, Simon says is a joke.

 Every single one of your posts bashes AoC. So i tend to ignore you and your sandy vagina posts. But this is completely retarded. War has the same combat system than any mmo in the past 5 years.

Truth with modification. WARs basic system is the same but it has MANY innovative combat features. Such as:

1. Bright Wizards/Sorcerors building up combustion leading to higher chance to get critical hits and damage as well as higher risk of hurting themselves
2. Archmages getting bonuses to DPS spells by casting HPS and viceversa (granted it is not working properly but they are working on it)
3. Warrior Priests and Disciple of Khaine getting "healing energy" by doing melee which they can use to heal themselves or their allies
4. Tanks being able to use taunt to increase the damage they do to player characters if they choose to ignore them
5. Tanks being able to absorb 50% of damage of a selected allied target giving them more purpose in PvP
6. Several melee characters have different stances which chain of different type of attacks. I.e the Swordmaster use "dance" stances to chain powerful combos
7. Shadow Warriors using different modes which unlocks different type of attacks and buffs ranged or close combat abilities

All these combines make for a very interesting combat that I did not feel at all was possible in AoC. In AoC you chain different combos and spell casters had something called spellweaving which both are interesting features but the classes themselves are not as varied as WAR classes.

To the OP: I played AoC but didnt subscribe after the free month. Mainly because I felt it was more a PvE game as I spent most of my time doing PvE than PvP. Then I tried WAR

You could say alot of things about WAR, such as Mythic, outdated gfx and themepark type game but it has many cool and innovative aspects. The most important that it has an easily accessible PvP system that you can use to advance your character INSTEAD of doing PvE.

I have been subscribed to WAR for two months now and I havent leveled any by doing PvE, almost all of my exp has come from PvP and I have now several high level characters. The PvP is fun and rewardable and because of it the griefing aspect really doesnt exist. You can PvP to your hearts extent so there is little need for anyone to grief.

So if you enjoy PvP then I highly recommend WAR. Beside the PvP the PvE is actually pretty cool as well with something called Public Quests. Meaning several, independant groups/individuals can together finish a quest. Awesome idea that works very well.

Now for the bad parts: End Game is pretty boring with lots of stalemates and PvE obstacles that lies in the way of good PvP and so far the End Game is the biggest dissapointment of the game but that might change, who knows. Other than that I think you should try it and remember join scenario ques from level 1, thats the key to advancing your character through PvP.

haha this is turning into a farce. Do you realise how many count downs this game have had?

Celebrate when the game is actually released and turn out to be great.

Originally posted by ProfRed

A real troll never admits defeat.  Read the manifesto post if it is still up and you will get an accurate view of the beta state.  (The OP quoted thread, not the responses here...  If you want a forum where the original thread is actually talked about you can probably find it on google.)

If you want to get an accurate graphical view of the game from someone with a mediocre system built in Sept of 2007 that shows how nice the world can look then you probably already found Bureyku2 on youtube.

Defeat for what excactly? The game is still not released and those You Tube vids doesnt excactly give you enough information to determine if the game is good or not.

That can only be determined by playing it and you cant play something that you cant buy (or have a beta invite).

Originally posted by Jerid13

Originally posted by Johnhost

Well it's 2 weeks to go in the good old UK.  And Game.co.uk and Amazon.co.uk two of the biggest game sellers don't even have it listed.  That is truely ominous!  You are telling me people are going to buy this game when in fact they CAN'T!  So the day of release will be the time when it goes on sale?  Or will it ever go on sale?

I think if by the 20th there is no listed of the game as an actual product, it's over.  If they don't push it out this time, they might as well forget it.  I say release it broken, the hardcore fans will still buy it and play it.

I personally think it's all vaporeware for sure now.  No way this is ever going to be released.

^  is what you said

 

This is what I heard

"Hi, I'm too lazy to go look on the darkfall website for an answer that has been available for years, so I'm going to simply troll."

Lawl?

Learn to investigate before you instigate.

 

Oh please, this is a forum and he can for sure ask things that he hasnt spent time investigating. If you take the time to flame him then you could have taken the time to answer him in a civil way as well or better yet if you are so bothered about him not investigating every single detail (something that you might like doing) then why simply not answer at all?

I am sure there are other people who dont mind helping other people out.

Destruction has both better designed classes (gfx wise) and overall better classes so if thats your main criteria then you should go Destro.

Order doesnt have an edge into any area but are underdogs and that appeals to some people (like me).

However as I said Destro has the powerclasses. Witch Elves rule supreme as single target burst DPS, Black Orcs are the toughest tanks in the game and their healer hybrid, Shaman, is better than ther counterpart, the Archmage. Also the Squig Hunter is an awesome range DPS class, much better than Shadow Warriors.

Order have two good classes and that is the Warrior Priest and Iron Breakers and possibly the Rune Priest. The rest ranges from decent (Witch Hunters, White Lions, Knight of the Blazing Sun) to complete crap like the Archmage, Shadow Warriors.

Originally posted by Paul22

I have been very interested in this game.  I was a huge WoW fan, I loved the game...but its all old to me now, I am just wondering if this game is worth its salt.  I am not trying to start a flame war, I am just looking for a new MMO and since it doesnt have a trial I have to go by opinions of others, unless someone is nice enough to give me a Buddy Pass... However my internet is slow and it will take me eons to download, but if its good, and i get a free trial? why not :).  Thank you in advance for the opinions!

 

 

If you like an MMORPG where you dont have to grind quests or AI mobs to level then WAR is definetely for you.

If you like an MMORPG with classes that are varied and have interesting mechanics such as stances, building up power to make your spells more effective and healers that are (somewhat) survivable then WAR is for you.

If you like an MMORPG with tons of Public Quests (meaning you can cooperate with people randomly without being in the same team) then WAR is for you.

However if you expect an MMORPG with an end game that is interesting and fun then WAR is NOT for you. I have seen that the path to get to the endgame is much more fun than the actual end game. That may or may not change but currently the end game is crap.

Also if you like to have lots of PvE raiding and other PvE centered stuff then WAR has some for you, like Public Quests (which i think are really well done) but that is NOT the focus of the game.

But if like an MMORPG which takes a different approach than the tried and approved grind AI mob type MMORPG and instead focuses on a easy accessible PvP system then give it a shot. I did and was pleasantly surprised.

I dont know, huge, muscular green giant or short, fat, halfnaked midget?

Tough choice there...

Originally posted by yaser101

 I'm kinda in love with the concept of swordmasters. Sword play, blade dancing and being very tough to bring down with a bit of magic thrown in. But I have to say.. I just hit level 10 yesterday and I cant say i'm too impressed yet.

Damage is on the sad side. Even in PvE it is very slow to bring anything down. But that's expected from a tank class. In PvP destro look at me and laugh when I strike them like I just tickled them. I can put some dents in squishies but again slow and easy for them to get away. As for toughies.. I barely move their health bar. 

I know that tank classes have low dps by design but I seem to do worse than other tanks.. except maybe for iron breakers.

But even if I don't get decent dps, I guess i'm not feeling the niche of the class yet. And would like to be educated about it if I can.

I know this might be too early to judge thats why i'm here to ask those who have played swordmasters longer than I have.

 

 

If you specc into Khain mastery tree your DPS will be almost comparable to MDPS. Reason is Ether Dance + spirit damage. However it is a 2H weapon mastery line and by not having a shield you wont be much of a tank. However with the dmg absorb nerf SwordMasters are no longer viable tanks (regardless of mastery tree). Reason is that they got hit hardest with the absorb shield nerf which saw them getting reduced in strength up to 50%.

So right now the only viable mastery tree for SwordMasters is Khaine. Then you will do respectable damage with decent defence. However I would recommend to wait for the Slayer and Choppa if you like melee DPS, they will probably rock and make other MDPS useless.