Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Nipashnaka

I think it's pretty obvious that the animations in Darkfall are sub-par. Normally when faced with technical limitations, you go with a stylized approach that obfuscates underlying flaws or limitations in the engine. WoW is a great example of using stylized art to hide the fact the game has to run on very low machine-spec requirements.

Now it's legitimate to say "Well, we didn't spend a whole lot of our budget on the art dept, so we had to hire inexperienced juniors and cut corners, because our game is not about looking good." But like everything Darkfall, I think there is an instinct in some fans to proclaim: the animations don't look bad, they are just hardcore.

It is a rather thin line. Good looking animations takes bandwidth and so does good graphics.
 

There are ways to make a game look good with nice animations and still don't lagg, but the only game that has pulled that of is Guildwars and there is still never more than 36 players in any siege/battleground/PvP zone there. GW also had Jeff Strain as lead programmer (He made Warcraft 3 and Diablo also BTW) and you can't expect Avi to find a guy in his class, there might be 3-5 in the world. 

What do you prefer, a nice looking game with lag or a ugly playable game?

It doesn't help that DF has it's own engine either but you´ll need to focus on performance in any massive PvP game, not graphics.

No, the graphic might improve slowly as computers and Internet connections gets better but don't expect it to look like AoC or Aion. Ever. Right now they would both have to find a star programmer and totaly remake the engine to improve things and to be honest are there more important issues to fix. It is not about being hardcore but being practical, you must sacrifice something to get massive sieging and battles to work.

The UI however needs fixing, it is bad and not that hard to fix.

Lame excuse that I dont buy. Aion has ten times as good gfx and they also have massive sieges and battles.

It is all about how good the gfx engine is and DF gfx engine is a piece of shit.

Originally posted by SonikFlash

Ugh the character models look like a three year old drew them in this game.  I hope he didnt get payed for his work.

Yeah, the character models, particulary how they move, are horrendous. One of the worst ever seen.

Originally posted by tvalentine

Originally posted by adoniskev

Originally posted by soap46

I've actually had the chance to use one of these, and I must admit that it is pretty damn cool.  I played RE5 on it and it worked like a charm.  The only thing here is that only certain games are supported for it.  Also, you need one hell of a graphics card (I'd go with no lower than a GTX 280) to run games in this smoothly, as it is very taxing on resources.  It's a good product, and it works well, but just remember that it may be a bigger investment than you'd originally think with a new card and all. 

 

Kickass monitor in that bundle BTW.

 

I created a PC for less than 800 usd, and it plays every single game out there at high settings. 

for 800$ i can get a PS3/360 and 8 new games (maybe 7 if you include tax). And i wont have to worry about upgrading for the next 6-8 years. So i can save hundreds of dollars not worrying about upgrades for almost a decade and have twice as many games as you.

Except ofcourse PC games cost almost half that of PS3/Xbox 360 and you can download pirated games and not risk getting banned from the internet for doing so.

As for 6-8 years. How long do you think those 8 games will last you? Maybe a year? Then you have to buy another 7-8 per year so in the long run a PC is much more wortwhile than a console.

Originally posted by Kuro1n

Originally posted by gauge2k3

Because people who mod consoles buy games.....yeah....

Says the clueless... i got a modded console and i very VERY few pirated games (the ones i have aren't available in my region).

Tbh i have two xbox 360s, one for playing the games i cant get in my country and one for playing the real games online and such...

 

 

Why shouldnt it be allowed to modify something you bought? Microsoft doesnt own it, i do.

For example: you buy a car and changes engine in it, now your not allowed to drive on the motorway anymore... Does it sound correct?

I agree. It is not Micro$ofts bussiness what you do with the equipment you bought unless it is illegal to modify your Xbox, which I strongly doubt it is.

Originally posted by Pelaaja

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by GPrestige

Ok, I was extremely disappointed with Aion's launch. Grind, zones, etc etc... the game just seemed completely underwhelming. You HAVE to check this video out.

 

You can check my post history, I definitely bashed this game. But if this comes out and they address the major issues I'd go back in a heartbeat, you can count on that. Along with this discussion, I'm hoping you might also be able to give examples of MMO companies that have heard complaints right from the get-go and kept in communication with the population to address issues.

 

Just a recap of the vid, what seems to be planned for Aion in the near future:

-DX10

-Active changing weather cycle

-Player Housing

-Mounts

-Beating the crap out of animals and riding them

-Swimming

-Flying anywhere

-Increasing combat speed, almost to action game pace

-COLLOSAL beasts

WTF. All of those, besides maybe one is all PvE stuff. I thought Aion was a PvP game?!

Last time I checked, it was a MMORPG with PvPvE elements. Maybe your source is wrong?

ok correction:

WTF. All of those, besides maybe one is all PvE stuff. I thought Aion was a PvPvE game?!

Happy?

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by fyerwall

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by dreamscaper

This honestly drives me nuts. I see so many posts in this thread talking about the horrible grind in Aion. Which automatically makes me think, 'What grind?' I'm currently level 28 and have yet to do any grinding. I log on, I do a quest or two, then I jump into a group with my legion and go 'furback hunting'.

I blame the WoW 'the game starts at level 60/70/80' mentality for this. People are trying to 'grind' out the levels as fast as possible, because they think that's how it should be done. And if you try to do that in a game like Aion or Lineage2, it WILL be a massive grind.

<3

 

Well, that's what happens when a game is designed where certain options are only available after a certain level.

I'll give you an example: if I want to PvP but can only PvP after lvl 25, getting to 25 will be a grind.

 

Your example is false, the grind in aion really only starts to become noticable at around 39+, so I am not sure what that does to your theory.

Talking about this though, thank god they have acknowledged this issue and are taking steps to fix it. Imo, as they deal with the recognised problems (grind in the western market, spam, bots, etc) and add more and more features and content this game over the next year in versions 2.0, 2.5, 3.0, and beyond it will just grow and grow and grow.

I honestly havent felt this good and excited about the future of a game I am playing in a long long time.

His example isnt wrong because hes not saying it *is* a grind. Hes saying restriction mechanics can make aspects like that *feel* like a grind.
 

Kinda like when you know you are getting say a million dollars on Friday, but its still Sunday and the stipulation is that you have to go about your normal work day schedual until Friday comes. That whole 6 days will seem more of a grind than normal.

Thats what I got from reading his post.

 

Well, to not be false we would have to replace the word 'grind', which has a very clear definition, with 'chore' or similar.

it might be a chore to get to 25 if you are looking forward massively to PvP, but it isnt a grind... Aion simply isnt grindy at that point, according to the meaning of the word.

Assuming he meant what you think he meant, specifically using the word 'grind' in his example changes the meaning of it and makes it false.

 

We're arguing semantics, really. In the English dictionary the word 'grind' can be a number of things. Here are some of those definitions:

-to oppress, torment, or crush: to grind the poor.
-Slang. to annoy; irritate; irk: It really grinds me when he's late.
-Informal. to work or study laboriously (often fol. by away): He was grinding away at his algebra.
-laborious, usually uninteresting work: Copying all the footnotes was a grind.

Please explain to me how those four definitions do not work with my example.

 

I am not sure the Oxford English dictionary includes much gamer slang yet, so it isnt probably the best resource for this, but I guess you know that already and are just trying to be clever. We all know what grind means in a MMORPG, and if you don't then tbh your too new to the genre to even be having this conversation with any authority.

As for arguing semantics.. well, yes... the words used matter and one single one can change the entire meaning of the example given. When clear language isnt used it leads to confusion and pointless debates like we are having over interpretations about what he might or might not have meant, instead of actually discussing the topic at hand.

Tbh tho, have it your way, it's cool. Take what you want from what he said and I will do the same. I am sure civilisation won't crumble.

Ok, even if we're going to use your "gamer slang," the word "grind" would not mean repetitive, uninteresting, mind-numbing activity? If all I want to do is PvP but have to get to level 25, I would not consider it a repetitive, uninteresting and mind-numbing activity?

Please enlighten me as to what exactly does the word "grind" mean in this "gamer slang." The way I see it, you jumped the gun and now you're trying to weasel your way out by making up these weird rules.

"No grind doesn't mean that."

"No grind doesn't mean that in gamer slang."

What's next?

Maybe you weren't talking about English at all? I'm sure that the word "grind" has a different meaning in some other language.

We both know that you were wrong and admitting to such will not make you a lesser person.

Grind is doing something over and over in a way that it feels repetetive and boring. And I would say level 1-25 is a repetetive PvE grind as you have to either kill thousands of AI mobs and do maybe 50 PvE quests. That for me is a grind and is particulary so because I am basically using the same combo of powers to kill all those thousands of mobs.

Ofcourse for you that may not feel like a grind because it is all subjective as to what one feels is repetetive and boring tasks.

Originally posted by GPrestige

Ok, I was extremely disappointed with Aion's launch. Grind, zones, etc etc... the game just seemed completely underwhelming. You HAVE to check this video out.

 

You can check my post history, I definitely bashed this game. But if this comes out and they address the major issues I'd go back in a heartbeat, you can count on that. Along with this discussion, I'm hoping you might also be able to give examples of MMO companies that have heard complaints right from the get-go and kept in communication with the population to address issues.

 

Just a recap of the vid, what seems to be planned for Aion in the near future:

-DX10

-Active changing weather cycle

-Player Housing

-Mounts

-Beating the crap out of animals and riding them

-Swimming

-Flying anywhere

-Increasing combat speed, almost to action game pace

-COLLOSAL beasts

WTF. All of those, besides maybe one is all PvE stuff. I thought Aion was a PvP game?!

Originally posted by Falfeir

 

---

Originally posted by Yamota

 

Great logic there. Why dont we apply that to all criminal activities.
"Oh you get raped in the park during night in a dangerous neighborhood. Why where you walking in a park, during night in a dangerous neigborhood? Ignorant people like you deserve to get raped.
There are 1000 ways to get raped and in the end it is your fault for getting raped, not the rapist or society for not providing enough security"
Hacking is an illegal activity and it is never a victims fault he got hacked.

---

 

 Even greater logic from you. Why dont we apply it to a petty theft though, instead of rape?

You have a house and you decide not to lock your door, or leaving the key under the mat seems like a valid protection. Our dear thief comes and gets everything you have, now who's fault is this? police dept.? government?

 

It is the thiefs fault. It is theft and the police needs to investigate it and find the thief regardless of how careless you are. It is not a crime to leave your keys under the mat but it is a crime to use that key and steal your belongings.

Besides, you have no idea how careless the OP was. I work in IT security for a company (developer, but still) and I can tell you that cyber theft is much more common than people would normally believe. It is so common that the general attitude is that you really cannot be 100% safe, and still be able to use IT resources, so what you can do is to protect yourself as much as possible and hope that is enough. However if a cyber criminal really wants to break in, they will usually find a way to do so.

Updated antivirus and firewalls does not make you 100% secure if you thought so.

Originally posted by Xasapis

So if ... lets say for the sake of argument ... you bought some powerlevel services, deactivated the account when you didn't feel like playing and the powerlevelers reactivated and took advantage of it, it's NCsoft responsibility? Or if your computer is open like a cheddar cheese? Or if you fall for some scam sniffing email?

Do people realise that this game has two account passwords that ought to be different? One is the ingame password and the other is the account password. You only need the account password to activate and deactivate that account, nothing else. It should be kept safe and different for a reason. And if by any change the ingame password gets compromised, you can reset it with your account password.

Like I said, you have some basic responsibility to keep your credentials safe. But you cannot have that attitude that if your account is hacked then it is entirely your fault, regardless of what you did or did not do. You are the victim, not the criminal.

You pay for a service and then you expect to have some insurances that if your account is compromised then the corp that you have that account in investigates the matter. 

Originally posted by xapno

Originally posted by veego590

Originally posted by glofish

Originally posted by veego590

 

Whatever happens with YOUR account is YOUR responsibility. Coming here and claiming that it is somehow NCSOft's fault that you have not secured your account is ludicrous.

 

You are at fault 100% Bailiff! case closed. All rise.

 

 So let me get this straight..its MY fault some random guy hacked into my account for whatever reason he chose me at random..and got my account banned? Its Ncsofts lack of security that should have prevented him getting my master account information.. how could I have prevented myself from getting hacked form THEIR end??

 

Ignorant people like you deserve to have there account stolen after a post like this.

You do not get "hacked" unless you downloaded something you shouldnt have. Someone does not steal your info without infecting you a type or spyware or virus.

Im going to take a wild guess you downloaded a bot, and then lost your account ? humm keylogged maybe.

They cant secure your computer for you.

There are 1000 different ways you could have had your account stolen, but in the end, its your fault for not protecting yourself.

 

Great logic there. Why dont we apply that to all criminal activities.

"Oh you get raped in the park during night in a dangerous neighborhood. Why where you walking in a park, during night in a dangerous neigborhood? Ignorant people like you deserve to get raped.

There are 1000 ways to get raped and in the end it is your fault for getting raped, not the rapist or society for not providing enough security"

Hacking is an illegal activity and it is never a victims fault he got hacked.

Originally posted by glofish

Originally posted by veego590

 

Whatever happens with YOUR account is YOUR responsibility. Coming here and claiming that it is somehow NCSOft's fault that you have not secured your account is ludicrous.

 

You are at fault 100% Bailiff! case closed. All rise.

 

 

Are you insane? It is NCSofts job to make sure that the accounts are secure. If someone opens up an account in any supposedly secured site then it is the corp that provides the accounts to make sure they are secure.

Ofcourse you have some responsibility as well, such as not giving out your password to anyone, but ultimately it is the entity that provides the account to investigate how/when an account has been breached.

For example, a couple of years ago, I got my credit card numbers stolen somehow and someone bought stuff with it online. I called the bank and they reimbursed the money once they investigated that I likely did not make those purchases.

That is how a responsible company works. If their account/security is breached then they take the responsibility for it, not you as a customer. It is their system that was breached, not yours. Again, you have some responsibilities as well but using your account in a normal way certainly is within your rights.

Originally posted by abyss610

included in the bans are also the morons that buy the kinah.

Nope.

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

No video game moment has ever bothered or offended me in any way, because it is just a game.

 

Movies are the same way, nothing really gets to me because it is acting it isn't someone actually being raped or mutilated.

 

I think some people just take things too personally.

If it is an AI mob you are talking about then yes, but in MMORPGs you have a real human being behind the avatar you just killed, maimed and stole his items which he played for weeks to get.

He is not an AI bot and he feels when you do that to him and then it ceases to be just a game.

I think that is an important distinction to make. Killing an AI bot is just a game, killing an avatar that is owned by a real person is a whole different ball game.

 Like this article correctly states there is quite a big difference from the themepark MMORPGs and sandbox MMORPGs which usually has much higher risk/reward.

As an example there was a person, who I actually played with, in Eve who managed to scam his corp of 500 billion ISK (Eve ingame currency) and this has a street/RL value of over 100.000 US dollars. So when we are talking these kind of numbers it really cease to be "just a game" but rather a virtual bussiness.

Themeparks on the other hand are a completely different ball game. There you have many ways of gathering virtual goods and much less risk/reward so I doubt there will be any heists the like I mention above in games like WoW where there is a straight line from start to finish and there really isnt much of a risk/reward for anything and also where ingame virtual goods has much less value. 

That being said I think morality certtain exists in many games, more so in Eve than in WoW. When you kill a person in Eve and take his belongings we can be talking about hours, sometimes days of playing that you take away from that player. So you need to be quite morally deprived to do that and not care about it. The "just a game" mentality does not work there because games like Eve are as much games as they are virtual worlds with a real economy and professions that require you to actually work (like mining, trading, manufacturing etc).

 Not everyone likes FPS combat. You can have involving and tactical combat without it being twitch-style FPS combat. One of the best combat systems I have seen was the one in Asherons Call for solo play, you could dodge certain attacks and use the terrain, but for group combat FF XI was awesome where a group could cooperate to create powerful combinations.

Even so I do agree that most MMORPGs combat are boring and uninspiring. WoW effect I guess...

 If so then how is it like?

Originally posted by iZakaroN

There are one ugly model :P

Maybe the only point I can accept is about UI that need much improvement, that hopefully will come soon. Especially combat is really realistic and impressive, maybe just need to be a bit more responsive.

You think that model looks good for a game being released in 2009/2010?

Even so, static pictures is something but models move as well and that is where it falls apart from me. Movement does not look natural, at all.

And realistic is not a feature I appreciate in a game. If I want realism, I turn of the computer and step outside. I want games to be fun, not realistic.

 Since the NDA has now been lifted I can tell you the little experience I had in the game.

I really did not want to beta test it but I got that as a bonus so as such I havent spent much time in the game. But the time I spend I was not impressed. Here is why:

1. Gfx is no good. Surprising seeing as the trailer they showed was so good but I dont know where the trailer was from. In game the models are ugly and the animations are quite bad. It is actually quite similar to Darkfall in this regard. Also the landscape is quite bleh, nothing special. The only things I liked was the water and skies, everything else felt like a 5 year old 3D game. Also there seemed to be very little customization of your character. Forget about how you can look like a fatsow or a body builder, everyone seem to have the same average build but with different heights.
2. Sound is worse, crappy sound fx with zero feel to them.
3. Combat, the little I saw was about swinging your weapon by holding your mouse button down and releasing. Boring and repetetive. Hopefully at higher levels there are special moves and such you can perform but right now is terrible.
4. Magic requires reagents and I dont have a clue where to get that so I cant comment on it. 
5. No tutorial or anything to get you started. Hopefully this will come later but this is specially important for a sandbox game as the devs of Fallen Earth realised. In MO you are just thrown out, completely naked with no clue where to go and what to do.
6. Clunky UI. If you have played Darkfall Mortal Online feels the same. Probably a reason is that they force you in 1st person view.

Hopefully some of these will be fixed by launch but from what I saw right now I strongly regret preordering it. It feels like Darkfall all over again. Which is a shame because I like to play sandbox over themepark but that does not mean that other features can be lacking.

Originally posted by Ruyn

Since it is blatantly obvious that Darkfall is currently the best MMO on the market, what are you doing to communicate to some of the bigger companies in the the Genre to make their own games better to be able to compete with Darkfall's features?

 

"Best" MMO yet lowest number of subscribers. I dont think the bigger companies are interested in that.

Originally posted by tvalentine

i use GTCs to pay for my stuff, and i usually buy 1 a month to supplement my BCs with T2 fittings. I havent bought a GTC though in about a month and a half so far, so i look at it as me learning more and dieing less. I hope to eventually get completely away from GTC's through a mining alt or just hope piracy pays the bills like it has been for the past month. If you work 60 hours a week, 35$ shouldnt be that much to pay so you dont have to bother with grinding isk. It sucks, but tbh you have to adapt or quit. If you dont like grinding isk, there are GTCs, if you dont like those then well you better get good at pvp and quit dieing.

Yeah that is the approach I am taking right now. Thing is I can afford buying a billion ISK but this post is not about me as I think that alot of people likes Eve but thing the death penalty is way too harsh.

Like I said before, things are not black and white. A small downward adjustment of the death penalty is what I think is appropriate, not eleminate it entirely.