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All Posts by observer

All Posts by observer

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Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by niceguy3978
Originally posted by observer
Originally posted by Velocinox
Originally posted by observer
I usually don't care about the inner workings of MMO companies, but i thought this was interesting, because it coincides with all the drama that came from the Guildmag Gamescom 2014 fiasco:

I do not think that word means what you think it means...

Well, if you really want to split hairs over definitions:

Synonyms:  1. disaster, catastrophe, debacle, flop, bomb.

It's a fitting description as to what happened.


I read the interview, and was expecting...well something more.  Maybe its because I'm not that familiar with the games community, but I'm not sure what was fiasco-y or any of its synonyms.  I see where people are upset about some of the decisions being made in the game, but I'm not sure how that relates to the interview being a fiasco.

You didn't find something more because it's not "a fiasco".

Players asked for things as players always asked for things. The developers have to balance what players want with what they perceive as the greater good of the game.

Some employees might just be sick of the whole affair as they want less stressful jobs and have moved on.

Some people like to see drama where there is none. I imagine it's because they also seek it in their own lives.

For people who don't seek drama there is none to see here. I wish them well and I wish them more relaxed and balanced jobs.

Unless of course the OP can point to something very specific where we can clearly see that this is a fiasco. I've been reading over the links and haven't found anything.

How can you say there wasn't any drama?  Apparently you didn't see the links i posted, or just want to ignore them.  Mike O'Brien's post on communication is specific enough.  What else could you want that is more specific?  There was an obvious failure of communication on Anet's side, hence the posts from O'brien, who is the co-founder and president of Anet, and also the many posts from the developers that followed afterwards (who also recognized a failure of communication).  Their Community Team Lead posted tweets about it, and then quit during the uproar.  Is it the end of Anet as we know it?  Of course not, but to say this wasn't important to the playerbase is just being ignorant.  You probaby don't care about GW2 or even play it anymore, but you shouldn't dismiss other people's concerns about a game they do enjoy.  As i said, i don't really care about company insider stuff, but this was important enough because it affected the community and it's playerbase.  Dismiss it if you must, and if you want to be condescending, that's your right.

"To put it yet another way: ArenaNet is no longer the sole creator of Guild Wars 2. ArenaNet and the fans now create Guild Wars 2."

I disagree with this.  The players do not create anything.  They can only invest time and money in it.  They can only influence changes, but the ultimate decisions are made by Anet's management.  I understand what you're trying to get at though, but using the word "create" wasn't a good choice of words.  I agree with most of the other criticism though.

Originally posted by fiontar

I put around 15 or so hours into it this weekend.

First impressions are fairly poor. The game feels and looks really old school, with some modernization and cool features. The game world is very generic. Combat was fairly decent as a hot bar clickfest, but that mode of play is feeling dated. Armor looks are very limited. Mobs are generic and just stand around, etc...

I liked getting a mount early and the animations for the mounts are better than most. I liked getting a row boat. I liked being able to farm plants and raise animals. I like that you can build a house, a boat, a ship. Cool things like that helped me keep playing past the opening hours.

Then I started to research the game more. The business model is really bad. F2P becomes extremely limiting due to the labor point system. F2P accounts have no LP regen when logged out and LP is required for things like opening loot bags, (all loot is in those bags), recovering XP after dying; in addition to gathering, building or even the most basic farming. By level 16, I found I was having trouble having enough LP to just open all my loot bags, even passing on all the fun stuff that requires LP.

F2P really only works as a free trial, or leaching off of Patron level friends/guildmates; or if you are a gold farmer who can run multiple clients in an automated fashion. It's not really a viable mode of play for actual players.

Patron level subscribers can own land, regen LP when offline, at a faster rate online and have much higher LP caps. In other words, for Patrons, the game beyond level 15 is fully playable and doesn't require afk idling to ensure a reasonable level of LP. Most profit comes from farming, directly or indirectly. (Trade bundles are a good source of income, but you have to gather and then craft them, before you can try to deliver them). Having a very limited LP pool and no offline regen as a non-subscribers is actually extremely limiting.

However, I think a lot of patron level players who play a lot will find they have to also spend cash to maximize their game play. $15/month is one thing if the cash shop is just cosmetics, something else entirely if being competitive requires addition expenditure.

The game is also a PvP game and allows same faction PK. This means that "competitiveness" isn't just about e-peens or achievement. Being competitive means being able to survive and thrive in a mean world.

There may be rare exceptions, but I feel pretty certain that most of the early high tier players will not only be patrons, but will be trading a fair amount of cash to secure their advantage. Very few F2P players will get much of anywhere once they leave the safe zones and many Patrons will feel the pressure to secure cash shop advantages so as not to be at the mercy of those with deeper wallets.

The best thing I can say about the game is that there are a lot of features worth copying. Why is player housing, let alone player built housing, so rare in MMOs today? Why are mounts so limited? Why don't more games have gliders, (which offer some benefits of flight, with out serving to shrink the entire game world as full flight can do)? Why do other games not have boats and ships? Mounted combat? Farming and livestock raising? Etc...

Also, the game, though looking very generic, also feels pretty large and the lack of load screens is refreshing. Somewhat generic might be a viable tradeoff for expansiveness and seamlessness, if paired with a better overall game.

I just don't see how this game does much better, long term, than other PvP centric MMOs like Darkfall. If anything, the business model would seem to make it less likely to succeed. In spite of being dated in many ways, the game might have had viable commercial appeal with a better business model. The game manages to achieve a fairly high degree of "pay to win", even with out selling explicit character power boosts in the cash shop. Combined with very limited play options for F2P players and a very competitive PvP environment that allows same faction PK, it just doesn't seem like a commercially viable mix.

I'm usually a proponent of F2P+BenignCashShop, but this is a game that really would have been much better off with a subscription and cosmetic ONLY cash shop business model.

I agree with almost all of this.

The Patron System in the long run will end up hurting this game.  It's similar to Facebook  "energy", where energy is needed for everything you do.

I'm glad you brought up the PvP too, because most people never discuss how this will affect Archeage overall.  The Mega-Guilds out there will definitely have the advantage with the LP system.  The competitive nature for land will require LP, which in turn, will have guilds requiring it's members to contribute with crafting materials (which also requires LP).  The guild that has more members and LP will be superior, making it a form of slight p2w.

The hardware doesn't really matter much if the software sucks.  Developers are using VR for the same old virtual environments we've had for over 30 years.  There isn't anything wrong with that, but there also isn't much innovation either.

Imagine using VR tech in the real world, fused with Google Glass or something.  Here's an example of a great idea: , but intstead we're getting

I saw a video awhile back where some guy was sitting in a room, and the objects in the room were virtual and real at the same time, such as a table, chairs, walls, etc.  Even his arms were virtual when he looked down on them wearing the headset.  I wish i could find the video, but i can't.

Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by observer
It is not a lobby game.  The open-world is seamless, and only certain dungeons, and other areas i think, are instanced.


So what is Divine Observatory if not a lobby?

I edited my post, but i wouldn't consider the Divine Observatory a lobby.  There isn't any instance with other people where you can interact with them (from what i've seen in that video anyway).  He even explains there isn't any chat rooms.  The Divine Observatory seems to be just an interface, such as a World Map that many MMOs have.  If i could compare it to anything, i would say it's like Swtor's map system on their ships.  I have no idea where the avatar is though when the Divine Observatory is up.

It is not a lobby game.  It seems to be a mix of open-world persistent zones and instances.  The travel system is like GW2's waypoints, which i think confused people into thinking it's a lobby game.  Here's a video on it.
If you want to see Skyforge in action, here's a video from Gamescom:
Originally posted by reeereee
So I eagerly clicked on the link to read up on all the delicious gw2 drama only to find out that they're throwing a fit over first person perspective and a mini-game...  if this is what gw2 players are raging about the game must be doing better than I anticipated...  /disappointed

It wasn't just those things.  It was the culmination of silence, and lack of communication from Anet.  When those issues were brought up, and dismissed as unimportant by Anet, that's when people felt the need to react.  There are many more things that aren't being addressed besides FoV, FPV, and SAB (which were finally addressed at gamescom btw), such as dungeons, pvp, wvw, end-game berserker meta, gear, precursors, etc.  WvW and Dungeons were finally addressed though, and it's not looking good for dungeon players either.  There won't be anymore dungeons added anytime soon, except for Fractal additions.  You can see the interview here:  They actually view Living Story Achievements as a dungeon "framework".  It sort of reminds me how Blizzard implemented Scenarios to replace Normal & Heroic dungeons from being developed, which left WoW's dungeons stale for almost 2 years.

I also wouldn't call it  "doing better" when 2 of your well known members leave, or is fired (speculation of course), especially when one of them is the Community Team Lead.  There was obviously a problem between the community and the team for something like that to happen.

Originally posted by Bannuk
Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by Allein
Originally posted by observer

A total misrepresentation.  The WoW screenshot is obviously showing in-game action, and the EQN one is obviously posed to make it more heroic or artistic.

So lets show some similar in-game animations of both.

WoW >  or = EQN? Really?

all the obscuring spell effect flashes.

So is it the art style or the effects? Eastern mmos like FFXIV, Bless, Black Desert have nice Graphics, yet over the top effects. Do they look terrible as well?

Also assuming you seem to miss that what was shown wasn't from a player's POV (which is dumb on their part because it makes everything look worse than it may or may not be). When you are in player POV it won't be so flashy. Look at what they've shown in a more realistic POV and nothing looks overly flashy to me (Landmark Keynote, Combat from SOE Live 2013).


The bottom line is this kid is a complete joke. He says EQN looks equal/worst than WoW 10 years ago did?  I seriously think he has some sort of degenerative eye disease or something.  Only a person with full blown cataracts in both eyes would say something like that lol.


First he lists off a bunch of things that EQN will have, claiming it won't have it, then he says it looks like it's on the same level as WoW's graphics.  We can only assume he's some troll.

Troll maybe, but he may be someone that really doesn't know the difference between graphics and art style.  EQN has way better graphics than WoW did 10 years ago or even now from what I've seen no question about it, but the art styles are similar.  They both are cartoonish with EQN being a higher quality but still a cartoon.

Just don't get so uptight because someone doesn't like your baby.   Isn't it a little early to be all fanboish about this game?  All we really know right now is EQN is Minecraft meets Disney meets late 90s style over the top effects and takes place in an Everquest setting. 

You better not totally discount the list of what might not make it into the game as we have been told either.  It won't be the first time we have thought mechanic X was going to be awesome and genre changing a la GW2 Dynamic Events.  Yeah, they were oh so dynamic.  The trigger for event X didn't change, the locations didn't change, the event didn't change.  They were 100% predictable at least at launch and may have changed, but I'm not going to find out.

Be careful that your fanboi goggles don't actually blind you into utter disappointment a month after launch.

I have no reason to troll.  Let's look at what i posted.

"Yes, WoW is 10+ years old, but what is SOE's excuse?  Their character models are horrible, and so are the animations and spell effects.  Is it any wonder they try to hide those terrible things behind the "cartoony" art style? "

It's obvious i wasn't talking about vectors or shaders, or whatever other components make up the "graphics engine".

I listed: characters models, animations, and effects.

Nowhere did i say the graphics in WoW were better.  Some of you need to comprehend what people write before you switch on your fanboy defense-mode

Originally posted by niceguy3978
Originally posted by observer
Originally posted by Velocinox
Originally posted by observer
I usually don't care about the inner workings of MMO companies, but i thought this was interesting, because it coincides with all the drama that came from the Guildmag Gamescom 2014 fiasco:

I do not think that word means what you think it means...

Well, if you really want to split hairs over definitions:

Synonyms:  1. disaster, catastrophe, debacle, flop, bomb.

It's a fitting description as to what happened.


I read the interview, and was expecting...well something more.  Maybe its because I'm not that familiar with the games community, but I'm not sure what was fiasco-y or any of its synonyms.  I see where people are upset about some of the decisions being made in the game, but I'm not sure how that relates to the interview being a fiasco.

My god.  Some people want to actually argue about semantics in this post.  I just replaced it with interview instead.  I wasn't specifically referring to the interview itself, but the fallout from it.  I should've been more clear on that.  My bad.

It still doesn't change the fact that the community went into a (awaiting approval of which word to use by posters), over this.

The problem was a lack of communication, complete silence on some issues, being out of touch, and the avoidance of answering questions, by dodging them in this interview.  That was the real reason why the community got upset.  It wasn't just forum posters either, but youtube personalities and other website owners too.

Originally posted by Velocinox
Originally posted by observer
I usually don't care about the inner workings of MMO companies, but i thought this was interesting, because it coincides with all the drama that came from the Guildmag Gamescom 2014 fiasco:

I do not think that word means what you think it means...

Well, if you really want to split hairs over definitions:

Synonyms:  1. disaster, catastrophe, debacle, flop, bomb.

It's a fitting description as to what happened.


Originally posted by Pepeq
Well to be honest, the argument holds merit... because, if you wish to try out WoW, you need to get through 90 levels just to get to the good stuff... can apply it to just about any game in which the end content is considered to be "the" content.


WoW is a 10 year old game, and ArcheAge is still in beta, even though it officially released in Korea and Russia.

In WoW, the first 60 levels were fun (and subsequent expansions), because the majority of MMOs before WoW, didn't have that same experience.  All the newer WoW clones copied the "quest-hub" experience with exclamation-questing.

Yes, i know, WoW wasn't the first with quest-hubs, but it made them the standard with all the clones that came out afterwards.  This is what people are disappointed in with ArcheAge.

I usually don't care about the inner workings of MMO companies, but i thought this was interesting, because it coincides with all the drama that came from the Guildmag Gamescom 2014 interview:
After that interview, the community went into an uproar over SAB, FoV, 1st-person view, Anet's lack of communication, etc.
Mike O'brien even stepped in and made a post about communicating:


Shortly after that, Martin Kerstein made some tweets about it:
"Sometimes I wish I would work in a less stressful environment - like taming wild animals…"
Then his goodbye post:
Kate Welch made a goodbye post too, and also posted more comments on reddit:
It seems like troubling times at Anet right now, and even though these two people probably weren't all that important at the company, it's still some bad PR for the company. 
Rift or SWTOR?
LFGame « General Discussion
8/21/14 11:39:56 PM

That depends if you prefer quasi-Medieval Fantasy in Rift, or Sci-Fantasy Star Wars.  If that doesn't matter, then that depends if you like f2p restrictions or not, because Rift is more playable without annoying restriction.  In Swtor, you are severely restricted without a subscriptions.  Both are linear "themeparks" however, with gear progression at max level.  If you're fine with that, i would go with Rift first, then Swtor next if you like stories.


I've only heard of Anet using that slogan for GW2.  I've never really heard it before that.  I've heard of people talk about persistence vs. permanence though.

Permanence would be a static world of course, where npcs, quests, and environment never change, etc.

Persistence would be an ever-changing environment though which includes mobs, npcs, etc.

Originally posted by Gallus85
Originally posted by Shadus

Wow... disappointing.

This is like diablo-guildwars-rift hybrid. Not that any are bad games, and this won't be bad either... but its nothing-- new, interesting, or fun excepting the voxel terrain stuff.

-You missed a few things aside from voxel engine: Emergent AI, Horizontal progression, SOEmote/facial animations, heroic movement system.  But you were close I guess.  So I'll give you an A for effort.

This is absurdly cartoon looking... to the point of seeming to go back in time 10 years or more graphically speaking... and if landmark is any indication on performance / responsiveness it's abysmal... and def not quality that's for sure.

Nice try though.  And performance in Landmark is great considering where it's at.  I get 60fps constant when I turn off shadows, and it's not even optimized yet and doesn't have very good driver support that it will have at release.

Think this is one game off my 'watch list'... which makes me sad. I played eq1, eq2, swg, etc... they're kinda bombing this so far.

Considering the only innovation you could name was "voxel engine", we can only assume you came to that conclusion through a lack of knowledge about the game and what it's going to offer.


A total misrepresentation.  The WoW screenshot is obviously showing in-game action, and the EQN one is obviously posed to make it more heroic or artistic.

All you have to do is take a screenshot of the EQN video and post it alongside that WoW screenshot to get a fairer comparison, and once you do that, you'll realize they both really aren't that great, but at least you can see what the hell is going in WoW without all the obscuring spell effect flashes.

Yes, WoW is 10+ years old, but what is SOE's excuse?  Their character models are horrible, and so are the animations and spell effects.  Is it any wonder they try to hide those terrible things behind the "cartoony" art style?  Pre-alpha, tech-demo, whatever you want to call it, is still just an excuse for a crappy presentation, which is supposed to show the world their "next-gen" game.

I've been in Landmark for over 6 months now, and it's nothing really special.  I would go into the reasons why Landmark will fail, because of the UI, Keybinds, Character Customization, Optimization & Latency issues, Dev Roadmap changing too frequently, etc., but it's not really important.  The sad thing is, that it had potential to really become next-gen, and to truly push the MMO genre into a true sandbox era.  So far, the only innovation to come from it are Voxels, which is their biggest problem, since the tech wasn't ready at all.  It's almost exactly what Bioware did when they used the Hero Engine, even when it wasn't ready to be used for an MMO project.

Landmark is directly tied into EQN, and this is why people should worry.  Just about everything in Landmark will be used for EQN, and that's not a good sign at all.  It's funny you mentioned 60 fps, but what is it when you're around 5 or more people or going through very detailed terrain?  Yes, it sounds exactly like swtor's ilum openworld pvp, and anyone who was there can attest how unplayable it was.  Now imagine when Landmark gets combat and there's 5+ people in combat with all those effects and animations going off.

Storybricks is their last hope to save it, and even that might bomb.

Originally posted by Pratt2112
Originally posted by kjempff

Destructible world sounds good, but looks bad. After building stuff in Landmark I realized how limited their voxel system is to create detailed shapes with. You see the flaws in the buildings and instead of using good artists, they copied what people made in Landmark. Even though there are some amazing stuff in Landmark, the voxel based stuff wont stand scrutiny. Voxels for terrain is ok, but for buildings etc, not pretty.

What they showed with abilities that digs holes in the ground is just unfitting and unnatural, hey even in Landmark I find it kindda wierd that you can just start up your (forgot the name) "disintegrator5000" and 30 secs later having dug youself a 100m deep hole in solid rock.

First order of business should really be to try and fix the fundamental problems with voxels limited shape options and looks, that is what Landmark needs badly, then it might be acceptable to use for a mmorpg like eqnext that is supposed to compete with beautiful and almost naturalistic style in other mmorpgs.

Yeah, what strikes me is how they just keep pushing the "destructible environment!" thing.

It's like, anything they do, they have to somehow work in "and look guys.... Destructible environments!".. .even if not verbally.

It actually reminds me of how everyone was going bonkers back when hardware accelerated graphics came along (3DFX, etc), and suddenly colored-lighting was possible. Everyone and their grandmother was drowning their games in orange, blue, red, green.. full saturated lighting.. and it just looked ridiculous. It's like they were so excited about the tech, that they felt they had to  use it everywhere possible. This "destructible environments!" thing reminds me of that.

I know. You can destroy the environment. You can create large holes in the ground. Wonderful. How about showing me something with more substance now.. you know... actual gameplay... and not a hole-digging light-show bonanza. 

Let me know how I'm going to be immersed in your world. How am I going to get that pure, drawn-in "Everquest" feel in EQ:N? How will Norrath make me feel I'm really there? And no, "destructible environments!!" isn't going to do that.

And really.. does anyone else already have expectations that 'destructible environments!" will become some new way of griefing? Someone's out in the wilderness, minding their own business. Maybe they're AFK momentarily.. They come back and are suddenly deep down in a hole, or in some cavern underground... because someone came by and.. "destructible environments!"

I dunno.. I'm over the gimmicks, I'm over the light-shows. I wanna see something of substance. Enough with the dog and pony show.

That reminds me when "Bullet Time" physics came out.  Every single game had the Matrix slo-mo action scene it.

I read on a post on reddit earlier, and supposedly it's some hacker group is doing a DDOS attack on gw2, LoL, and some other games.
Their trailers might be surprising, but the game itself does not surprise anymore.  It's the same game since launch, if you really break it down into details and get specific.  Updated models?  Awesome, but they still don't look anything like the orcs in that trailer, which is a shame.  Around 6 years of waiting for updated models, and they are only rehashed versions of the original ones with the same proportions, instead of full-blown revamped ones with different skeletal structures, etc.
TSW did a pretty good job on questing.  I wish more developers would take an approach similar to it, instead of multiple quest hubs where the stories are insignificant to the overall story.  
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