Conan the barbarian had skimpy armor.  Where's the outrage?

PvP in FPS games has certainly evolved.  At first there was Deathmatch, Kill and Death ratio, and then objectives with CTF, Capture points, Achievements, etc...

In MMO's, it needs to evolve too.  Vendors with Rewards, Achievements, Gear, Items, etc...

Originally posted by Jerioca

So... I read through the list in the OP carefully...

 

Is the thread starter seriously trying to argue that SW:TOR isn't innovative because it doesn't do everything in exactly the same way every other MMO does it?

 

This thread wouldn't exist if James Ohlen (Game Director) would have clarified what exactly is innovative in that interview.  Hence, my list.

Hopefully they tone it down, because too much "flash" in combat gets annoying.

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by precious328

Originally posted by Fennris

Cupholders + Car = car interior design innovation (maybe the biggest from the later half of that century).  Cupholders (in plains, trains, hospitals, etc)  existed before they were introduced to cars.   Many people didn't use them or even notice them when they came out in cars.  Some found them irritating.  But it's hard to find a car nowadays without one or several...

Before Wow you had to grind mobs in MMOs with a few quests thrown in for spice.  The whole idea of running quests non-stop was not new to rpgs but it was new to MMOs (and most didn't think it could be done).  Many single player games had better questing/quests long before Wow.  Wow's design/handling of them was innovative and industry changing.  This was an example ... Wow may not have been the first MMO with non-stop quests to endgame but whichever one had it was innovative.  SWTOR may or may not be industry changing but not every innovation is.

There is a yearning for something different. This is 100% clear. It's been clear since the linear hand-holding of SWG-NGE, VG, AoC, WAR, Aion, STO, etc.

WoW is the linear precedent. We now need a worthy "freedom" precedent.

 

 

This thread has now been saved by william wallace.

More info on the hero engine and it's combat system.  http://wiki.heroengine.com/wiki/Combat

+1 for the Holocall feature.  I'll give Swtor credit for that one.

I would have to say Anarchy Online.  It would've been my first MMO, but i never did get it to run on my PC. lol.

Originally posted by austriacus

What im trying to get at is that first of all you gota pick a definition of the word that you are gona use and apply your logic to it.

I'll need to figure out James Ohlen's definition of the word innovation first.

Originally posted by kalinis

i have played games with pets and tor companions are so much more then pets. They are actualy characters in there own right pets are just fighting help in most games and sure companions are that but they are also full fledged charcters in there own right .

I"ll concede on this point, but take away the story and crafting components associated with them, and you really do have a pet as is done in other MMOs.

"So, I don't know, it's just the way it is, but I don't see us as not being innovative. We're actually a lot more innovative within the MMO space than comparable games in other spaces like the first-person genre, the action genre - games like that." -James Ohlen

User Interface isn't innovative.  (i am well aware of the upcoming changes.)

• Only 4 hotbars.
• Static and not moveable.
• Standard Filters on mini-map.
• Standard Objectives on map.
• Cannot resize.
• Where exactly is the innovation?

Chat interface isn't innovative.

• Cannot shift+click user name for info, such as level, class, etc.
• Many other right-click options missing and/or don't work.

• Cannot add offline friends.
• Cannot add one's own alts.
• Cannot add notes. (i think, i can't remember.)
• Cannot share friends list with alts.

Traveling system isn't innovative.

• Traveling is inconvenient due to immersion (airlocks/hangars/orbital stations).
• Too much zoning.
• Non-seamless experience.
• They didn't learn from EQ2 and AoC.
• Speeders are the same as mounts in other MMOs.

Voice overs aren't innovative.

• AoC had them.
• I'll give them a pass for LS/DS Dialogue options though.

Combat isn't innovative.

• The lack of auto-attack isn't innovative.
• I really can't think of anything positive or innovative for their combat.

LFG system isn't innovative.

• Basically a list of people in a window with a flagged icon.
• No LFG channel.
• No summons or teleportations to group content.
• Found this mock-up yesterday: http://i.imgur.com/57vZf.jpg <--this would be innovative (or at least an improvement).

Housing/Ship isn't innovative.

• Storage/Cargo Hold has been done before in LotRO and EQ2.
• There is no bind point to Ship.
• Only useful for the space combat mini-game and Companion storylines.

Companions are somewhat innovative.

• Basically multiple pets.
• Companions can craft/gather.

Crafting isn't innovative.

• It uses a leveling system from 1-400.
• Only thing innovative about it, is probably Reverse Engineering.

Dungeons/Raids aren't innovative.

• Same as always in other MMOs.

• Achievement systems in WoW and EQ2.
• Story and Lore journals done before.

• Three standard trees for each class.

• EQ2 had "advanced classes",  they scrapped this system later for good reasons.
• Aion also had "advanced classes".

Originally posted by Metentso

Ah here we have the miracle patch. Now everything is in order.

lol. so true.

Every MMO has this so called "miracle patch".

Patches and Updates are useless unless they implement standard MMO features, which SWTOR lacks greatly.

I don't have a problem with zoning, unless it's excessive like EQ2 was at launch, and how Swtor is right now.  WoW found a good balance, where the design made sense, i.e. across continents.

Currently, in swtor, there's way too much zoning and clicking.  Ship > Map > Planet > Orbital Station > Zone, etc.

Fewer clicks is always ideal.

Originally posted by Vegetto

I see 100's of people on every planet i goto.

I actually see maybe 2 at most every few hours.

This is untrue.

I got a warrior to 30 and an agent to 42.

There are hundreds in starter zones and up to dromund kaas (Empire side) only.  After Droum Kaas though, the player base drops off significantly.  Players just stop progressing once they get into Balmorra.  The same thing happened in Aion.  In my opinion, the instancing (sharding) doesn't help either.

I would do it, but i'm way too busy, and lazy.  It's nice to be able to use them though. Good luck for those trying to get them.

Some of you need to relax.  It was just a question on how to improve GW2.

One does not have to play the game first, in order to to see that some changes might be needed.

Just look at the user interface by viewing videos and screenshots.  Chat, Text Size, Fonts, etc.  Skill and Portrait menus.  Target Glows, and Combat Damage Numbers, could be toned down.  Hotbars could be changed too.  One could try to visualize some changes that might be needed.

Of course, some of you will disagree, and others will agree, but try to calm down with less emotion.

I see a lot of whining and arguing, but no one is offering solutions to the problem.

The game doesn't need a LFD tool, but it could use the solutions below.

The devs are clueless.  They have no idea how to bring people together to socialize.  There is no main hub, and everyone is spread out, which makes it harder for people to form groups together.  The fleet doesn't count.  Why? Because it's such a hassle to get to it.

Four quick solutions could help out the problem though.

1. Global LFG channel.
2. Summons at the Fleet.
3. Emergency Fleet Pass on a 30-60 min cooldown.
4. or a Quick Travel Skill to our Ship.

Originally posted by Kaocan

http://www.torhead.com/

Hopefully they come out with a client to collect data, so we can upload it.

Originally posted by Painlezz

The minor point i'm trying to make is that the game feels complete, with lots of options for expansions.  They won't have to completely revamp anything to add what most players complain about. 

Many MMO veterans will say the game feels incomplete.  Sure, they can add all that stuff later on, but they should build a solid foundation first.  I've listed some examples in the past, as well as other people.

Bottom line: The game is incomplete, with missing, and broken important features

In some ares, the game reminds me of how EQ2 launched, such as:

• Advanced class progression.  (forced to waste time just to try out a main class) (always a bad idea)
• Too much zoning between places.  (travelling takes too many clicks)
• Cartoon/Plastic looking art.  (subjective opinion, but i don't like it)
• Group content (open-world elite zones and group quests) (this is a good thing)
• etc.