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All Posts by Shadoed

All Posts by Shadoed

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575 posts found
Originally posted by ReallyNow10

Yet, garrisons ARE the expansion, pretty much.  Skip out on garrisons, and you miss some quests and their nice gear like Aviana's Feather.

And this is wrong.

When I play a character in a game like WOW, I picture my character as a traveling adventurer, a mercenary, and NOT a garrison commander. 

Blizzard should not force its story upon us.  If their storyline impacts the world, fine, but allow players to play as they want, and not how Blizzard dictates.  One player from another forum said it best, "Blizzard is once again telling us how we are going to have fun."

I am curious that in that run up to the expansion being launched, how did it not occur to you that garrisons were going to be a big part of it since that is all most people were talking about?

As some others have said, this isn't the only time that you would have to do certain things to get certain rewards, but i don't raid for example, so i have to accept the fact that i won't get raid gear, Blizzard aren't forcing me to do anything, it is my choice not to take part in that particular section of the game.

Would you much rather they just put every reward in to a cash shop instead?

Originally posted by NorseGod
I guess i hate WOW for bringing in the unwashed masses that don't belong here and the game companies that do everything to please them enough to stay around.

So who do you consider 'worthy' of a place in your gaming world?

Originally posted by Gestankfaust

The undying fans is why. Those that still play it for whatever reason. Knowing it is outdated. Knowing it will not get better, but we must push on....is why. Knowing that they will continue to make x packs, and the undying fans will still buy them is why. The fact that thousands of WoW cheerleaders are what is keeping it #1.

 

Not because it's a great game

 

Not because it rivals anything out now

 

Just because it has thousands of brain dead zombies keeping the dying ship afloat....

Wow, another one of those!

So, just because you don't like it, anyone that does has to be a brain dead zombie for doing so?

Pretty much the point of this thread I guess, why do people who don't like the game feel that they have to drop in and make remarks like that, what is it about this game that makes people so emotional that they feel they have to make the point that they don't like it so strongly rather than just move along and enjoy a game they do like?

No amount of venom or bile will change the fact that this has been and still is a well polished, popular game and also the fact that it won't please everyone, but if that is the case, just let it go and move on.

Originally posted by Adjuvant1
 

I never argued it wasn't successful, but otherwise...

This is the best post yet in this thread on the counterpoint, and with it I can comfortably agree to disagree. You say "new supply of players", but that figure of  "10 million players!" is self perpetuating, like a conveyor. For every player who tries it and leaves, there's one who looks at that and says, "hmm, 10 million people play it, maybe I will like it". I think, because you're relenting we don't see the full picture in those figures, you're working to understand my point and I appreciate it.

But again this is guesswork.

I have been around since the start and i am still there, one of the lucky ones to qualify for a Blizzard statue recently, and that little gesture alone shows that there has been a core of players around for a long time within the game. I have people who have been in my current guild since it's creation over five years ago who are still there full time and some who pop in and out.

Blizzard released a stat that there have been over 100 million players over it's lifetime so far, but i have always maintained that there has been a core of maybe 3.5Mill people (western subs) who have always been around on and off since the beginning. That is just my view from experience in the game and from Blizzard reports, but which ever way you cut it, you will struggle to find another company that has been as open about it's player base than Blizzard.

No-one can really tell you whether it is worth you returning other than you and for that you need to understand why you stopped playing in the first place?

If you don't get along with the core of what Warcraft has been since release then you will not get along with the game now or probably ever again as that will never change a huge amount, so if you don't like a core feature like levelling for example then you are probably on to a lost cause straight away.

Originally posted by mark2123
 

 You're easily pleased for someone paying a sub.  Fishing, gathering, crafting, achieving etc - all stuff you could do before WoD and nothing really added to the game aside from Dugeons and Garrison, putting you on the coveyor belt of grind again.  The landmasses that came with WoD are pretty small and boring with little replay value. 

Cleaning up old content - not what I would buy an expac for.

You are making excuses for Blizzard's taking people's money for the full cost of a game with barely the content to justify the name and then a sub to boot.  I can only imagine that a) people cannot see much out there right now to play instead and b) that they have played for too long to be able to leave.

 

Hilarious!

If i didn't enjoy the core aspects of the game i wouldn't play it and who the hell are you to judge what i should or shouldn't enjoy about the game?!?

I have no excuses for anyone, i am pointing out what i do and enjoy about the game and if you had bothered to read any other posts rather than just jumping in on one to try and make some lame ass 'sheep' post to try and run the game down you would also have known that i was extending a point about how people don't have to just play the game on rails, you can play it the way you enjoy playing it. If you had also read any of my previous posts, you would also know that i am an advocate of people leaving the game if they are not enjoying it, makes no sense to continue with something you aren't getting anything from, but i guess that doesn't apply to all....obviously.

Originally posted by JDis25
The "World" of Warcraft now consists of your Garrison (which is instanced) and other instances. That's it.

Say's who?

I am still out there and meeting others who are fishing, gathering, crafting, achieving, cleaning up old content, levelling, questing, etc, etc.......what has happened to game players these days?

Why are you just standing about in a garrison and instancing other stuff, there is plenty of stuff to do out there if you have the will to explore and discover, but if not, why are you playing at all?

Originally posted by Pepeq
Originally posted by Superman0X
This is just part of the process to create a F2P portion of the game.

Game is going F2P... in 2025... you going to wait?

There are a lot of mixed messages coming in from Blizzard right now about it's business model as they have just put the monthly cost up, although kept the same for those who have a continuous sub, yet they are opening up the lower end of the game for all. With talk of a system similar to plex where you will be able to buy game time with in game gold there looks to be a big shift in the model on it's way sooner rather than later.

I would not have said that they will go exclusively F2P straight away, but maybe extend the F2P element of the game and maintain some sort of premium for subscribers, but it is difficult to see how that would work right now.

Originally posted by Bladestrom

But that aside, who is forcing you to mine every day or pick your garden or even send your followers out on missions? It is just another option within the game along with many others that you can choose to take or leave. You want to go out and quest, fine go out and do it, you want to dungeon run or raid instead, fine, just go and do that instead. It doesn't isolate me as you still get a trade channel chat in there and i can do what i want there, drop all of my gear/loot/mats in to my banks and head off to do what i want to do for that day. Maybe because i am not a raider any more and i don't run dungeons religiously it doesn't affect me as much as some, but i really struggle to see what the big issue is here.

Forcing?  It was the core new feature of the new expansion that took 2 years of subscribers money to develop.

Have the garrisons opened up the gathering and crafting to a wider group, maybe, does that devalue it or just make it more accessible?

in 10 years I don't think anyone has ever though of crafting in WOW as inaccessible, it was simplistic as it was - but most importantly the gathering was rewarding for those that like to explore and gather.  Not so rewarding when no-one buys your stuff because they have an age of empires style resource center instant lol, but don't take my world for it, look it up on the wow forums.

 

Garrisons are 'a' new feature, they are far from being the core of the game and as i said in a previous post, if you are one of those that feels they have to stick to the rails of what everyone expects them to do then you will never be satisfied with your gameplay time.

I didn't say that it was inaccessible, all i said was that it was now more accessible there is a difference. I don't need to look at the forums, i am playing the game, i can see the market live and clear and believe me crafting is alive and well and commanding decent prices.

Originally posted by Bladestrom
 

Micro managing a little town (wtf) is not role playing your avatar in a game.   Spending 15-20 minutes a day doing an activity that has got bugger all to to with an RPG is classic modern bliz design - stunningly 1 dimensional and stupid.  Most players in game could have predicted the impact on social interaction and gathering/crafting, and yet blizzard take 2 years (lol) to build this and 5 levels of content.

When you refer to people simply not using the garrisons, it has pretty much become a required factor in the economy and becoming self sufficient for raiding to the point where it has devalued activities outwith like gathering and crafting - right?

 

Remembering the days of old D&D when you had to make sure you had your feather or dust to cast your spells and cantrips, micro management was what RPG's were all about and if you play paper based RPG's of old, those little details mattered a lot. Also, having a hall to show off gathered rare items and statues of your achievements would have been a great place for a RPG player.

But that aside, who is forcing you to mine every day or pick your garden or even send your followers out on missions? It is just another option within the game along with many others that you can choose to take or leave. You want to go out and quest, fine go out and do it, you want to dungeon run or raid instead, fine, just go and do that instead. It doesn't isolate me as you still get a trade channel chat in there and i can do what i want there, drop all of my gear/loot/mats in to my banks and head off to do what i want to do for that day. Maybe because i am not a raider any more and i don't run dungeons religiously it doesn't affect me as much as some, but i really struggle to see what the big issue is here.

Have the garrisons opened up the gathering and crafting to a wider group, maybe, does that devalue it or just make it more accessible?

Originally posted by Wizardry
Dailies,Garrisons have absolutely NOTHING to do with RPG gaming.Those are just more  of Blizzard's cheap way of putting together ideas to keep players coming back.You might as well put tennis courts in the game and have players in Fantasy world playing Tennis,what is the difference neither have anything to do with RPG in that Lore setting.

 

So how does Wow work,you are in this ancient era,the characters sit around in a pub and think ...hmm what Dungeon can we run oh idk let's check the "Dungeon finder" talk about realistic immersion .../not.How about  let's do a Garrison ,oh wait we need to do our dailies ..lmao ,it is pathetic what Blizzard does for game design and sadly others are copying it.

This is the kind of stuff i will not support,that is why i am currently not playing any mmorpg's they are all nonsense game designs.Also bringing up RECENT ideas are not what Wow was built on,it was built on players soloing 99% of the time until end game.So you can't act like "oh Wow is this great grouping game" when you spent 5 + years soloing 99% of the time before end game.If Wow players wanted grouping so bad,why were they playing Wow then,why did they stick around beyond level 5?

Wouldn't dailies and garrisons be the dream of RPG players? Maybe not for those that do not actually play in an RPG style, but for those who do, having your own garrison would be a dream come true.

I am really not understanding the uproar around garrisons. I spend maybe 15-20 minutes a day to cover my followers quests, open up my boxes, round up my resources, empty my mine and pick my garden, then i am off in to the open world as i normally would be. I spend just as much time in open world and major cities as i used to, but maybe that is just me.

As for other complaints, have said this many times before but you have the option to not use the features that Blizzard has added if you so choose and you can find others who think the same way. If you are can do nothing but sit on the rails and do what you think others expect you to do and not use some imagination and play the game your own way, then you are always going to find it disappointing.

Originally posted by svandy
Originally posted by Shadoed
It isn't about 'lording status' or anything along those lines, it is just hard to take someone trying to state something as fact when they have not experienced it. Everyone is welcome to an opinion, but don't expect people to credit it if you have not actually played the content that you are stating an opinion on.

Haven't I played it though? How are raids so drastically different from Heroics or normal 5 mans beyond amount o fplayers and gear score required? Sure, mechanics will be different, but even heroics all have "mechanics," now which typically boil down to dont stand in the fire/magic/poison/whatever, and I can't imagine raids are so drastically different that it would change my opinion of the games content. The core game doesn't appeal to me, I went back to try garrisons, it ended up being a lame duck. I am totally justified in an opinion, and if you choose to not listen to it because you feel I havent experienced enough of it, your loss.

You have to face the fact that at the end of the day there are only two possibilities: Blizzard knowingly forces players to play through irrelevant and boring content before being able to access anything meaningful, OR the game is the same through and through, just requiring better gear to accomplish. This has always been the problem with MMOs, and WoW is the grand-daddy of MMOs suffering from it. They maintain a huge population based on people just not wanting to change MMOs, or the aforementioned social status they achieved and the desire to lord it over others. WoW isnt about adventuring with friends, it's about having better gear than them.

Also I still don't understand how people consider achievements content.

Well, you have pinned your problem straight away in that post, you don't like the core game and if you read my post earlier in this thread then i make that point exactly. What exactly were you expecting from this expansion? WoW is WoW, that hasn't changed since day one launch and if you didn't like the core of the game at any point along the way then you are not going to get along with it now either, simple as that really.

WoD was not a new game, it was an expansion of the existing core game, you can do all of the stuff you used to do with a few extra's added for flavour. Garrisons were not supposed to be a magic fix for anything, they were just something else new, like pet battles or archaeology and so on, they aren't and were never meant to be what the game is all about.

Achievements are just as valid a content as anything else within the game, it offers something else to reach for, for some players, others will not bother, it is just another option, but no less valid than content others enjoy.

Originally posted by Bladestrom
Originally posted by Shadoed
 

It isn't about 'lording status' or anything along those lines, it is just hard to take someone trying to state something as fact when they have not experienced it. Everyone is welcome to an opinion, but don't expect people to credit it if you have not actually played the content that you are stating an opinion on.

I was stating an opinionabout what i considered to be a fact - the 'stating fact' thing was an excuse by some to pretend their foul abusive behaviour was justified - its got fuck all to do with the actual point.  Nowhere was any points refuted - you do not need to have to play WOD to know the balancing issues are still there (so its either a fact or not - what is it?)  this 'you haven't played it thing' is a childish defense by those who wont actually enter a debate, they are just interested in mudslinging.

to make it simple for the children here - if you disagree with an opinion, say why - 'I disagree that the balancing issue is as bad as aver because...'

Not, 'im not listening or going to enter this debate cause you haven't played the game.'

And no i do not need to play WOD to tell you the power system is screwing up the balance, but prove me wrong - tell me its not a fact.

Not even going to get in to the irony of someone using foul language to try and make a point and then calling others 'children' in the same post.

On the other point, i am not going to enter a debate about overall balance in the current expansion as it is only just gaining momentum and of course is not all the way there yet, but even with that said, you will never get a 100% balance in any MMO, even this one and anyone with any development experience would know that. Not only do you have the opinions of hundreds of thousands of people to consider, you also have to ensure that whatever changes you make also balance with every other directly affected variable that is in the game already and even if they managed to get the technical stuff right, they will never satiate all of the people playing who have their varied opinions.

If it makes you feel better about yourself, then yes you are right that there is not 100% balance within the game, but then there never has been, so it is hardly a groud breaking revelation, but can you tell me how the current imbalances are affecting classes directly from experience?

My point to you was that you are welcome to have your opinion, but if you have not played the content it holds less water to most than that of a person who has actually played the content and can offer a detailed reason as to why that imbalance effects them directly. You can kick, scream and swear all you like, it doesn't change that fact either.

Originally posted by svandy
Originally posted by Bladestrom
Originally posted by svandy
For some reason I'll never understand I did have hope that WoD would revive WoW for me. I enjoyed leveling to an extend and the garrison was fun at first, but it's true that after a while you start to see through the facade and realize just how simple the game really is. There is nothing wrong with that, if you like simple then WoW is for you, but I like deeper gameplay or at least if it's not deep and complex, I prefer that the combat is fun (WoW's isn't for me)

careful, they may ask for an achievement check before you can express an opinion.

I just don't acknowledge them. If they are happy circle jerking over achievements until the end of time, far be it from me to get in the way. Although your comment is great because it shows just how bad the WoW community has gotten. Gear Score, Achievement checks, hard modes, blah blah blah. Always some way for you to lord your "status," over someone else and shout down people who aren't having fun, because they didn't endure the not fun parts long enough to... grind the not fun parts to get achievements? I don't even know.

I hoped garrisons would be cool enough to keep me, but it just wasnt meant to be. I'm not complaining though, I got a good couple weeks out of the game so it wasn't money lost.

It isn't about 'lording status' or anything along those lines, it is just hard to take someone trying to state something as fact when they have not experienced it. Everyone is welcome to an opinion, but don't expect people to credit it if you have not actually played the content that you are stating an opinion on.

Originally posted by Mpfive
Originally posted by Tasslehoff35
Originally posted by thunderC
I know people have been saying for years "Its not the same WOW as vanilla" but this was truly the expansion that has me leaving for good. LFR was a great addition but this Garrison nonsense and the linear zones along with the lack of creativty when it comes to story, mobs and graphics has me saying goodbye for good. The direction this game has gone in is just TOO FAR OFF from the game i fell in love with.

Garrison nonsense?  I'd love for you to explain?  

 

Linear zones?  Please link the achievements for collecting all treasure, kill all rares, complete all quest, ect ect...

Yes, linear quests. You can't go off the beaten track and discover new quests because they all have to be done in order. It's a horrible stale system

There are storyline quests, yes, but there are loads of individual quests as well as area specific quests that get picked up on the fly if you can be bothered to explore the zones completely. Even one of the story quests early on ends up sending you off in four different directions, you can bob between them at any point.

Originally posted by Hoplites
Originally posted by Shadoed
Originally posted by Hoplites
Originally posted by JDis25

I want flying back, it made WoW unique.  People complain about too easy, and not sociable. Yet you are playing WoW, one of the easiest and most solo mmo's there is.

I concur.

This model will not work and will fail because WoW isn't designed this way.  Well stated by the way.

Well that is an odd statement, WoW was designed exactly that way, flying mounts were not introduced until much later down the line and Blizzard were not too sure about that back then. There are far more flight points around now than there used to be back in those days too and they tend to be exactly where you want them to be, you can queue for BG's, Dungeons and Raids, so no need for the long distance travel you used to have to make back then, so really travelling by ground is not that much of a hassle and this was the ideal time to re-introduce it.

I have really enjoyed travelling this way again, having to check out your route, finding things that you would not otherwise see if flying, you feel much more part of the environment again.

Flying mounts has been with the game for 8 years of level capped content. 

The current flight points are not enough, they are slow, and they use the worst path logic I have ever seen.  Furthermore, I don't want WoW to become a world of queuecraft by sitting in a garrison waiting for BG, Dungeon, or raid queues. 

Flying mounts enable exploration of the world at level cap and encourages players for achievements, archeology, pet battles, etc. 

This expansion is a failure because they stripped away incentives to explore the world at level cap and they introduced massive time sinks or gates on everything (eg professions).

My point was that wow was not designed with flying mounts in mind and Blizzard themselves were borderline on introducing them when they did, but once in there it was difficult to get rid of them, especially when some content had been designed so that it could only be reached if you had a flying mount.

Compared to Vanilla the current flight points are a virus on the map, you really couldn't travel much better and closer to where you need to be unless they had a flight point at every quest giver, they are not entirely direct in some cases, but again they are far better than they used to be and how are they slow?

How do flying mounts encourage exploration? If you have the ability to skip 9/10ths of the landscape in favour of dropping in to exactly where you want to be straight away, that is not exploring the maps at all. Ground mounts in no way impede your progress of achievements, in fact for things like pet battles they are far better than flying mounts as you don't miss so many.

I have enjoyed flying in some of the expansions and you can see in BC & Wrath how much was designed to take direct advantage of it, so it won't go away entirely, but i am still not seeing anything that says ground mounts only in this expansion has been any sort of handicap?

Originally posted by Hoplites
Originally posted by JDis25

I want flying back, it made WoW unique.  People complain about too easy, and not sociable. Yet you are playing WoW, one of the easiest and most solo mmo's there is.

I concur.

This model will not work and will fail because WoW isn't designed this way.  Well stated by the way.

Well that is an odd statement, WoW was designed exactly that way, flying mounts were not introduced until much later down the line and Blizzard were not too sure about that back then. There are far more flight points around now than there used to be back in those days too and they tend to be exactly where you want them to be, you can queue for BG's, Dungeons and Raids, so no need for the long distance travel you used to have to make back then, so really travelling by ground is not that much of a hassle and this was the ideal time to re-introduce it.

I have really enjoyed travelling this way again, having to check out your route, finding things that you would not otherwise see if flying, you feel much more part of the environment again.

Originally posted by Muke
Originally posted by Shadoed
Originally posted by dotdotdash

The only reason he's congratulating them is because, when he looks into the freshly-shined leather on his expensive designer shoes for the 7th hour of the day, he can't quite believe that someone managed to actually release a whole game on time.

I mean, it must baffle him.

He must be so confused as to how someone would manage to release a whole game on time that he's scratching his head until it bleeds.

Would it be rude to point out that this game was nowhere near on time and is not complete either as they dropped offline play completely?

Offline play in any game is only for risk averse carebears.

 

If it was implemented properly it would have had nothing to do with being a 'carebear' mode, that is just a cop out!

My comment stands, it wasn't anywhere near the originally announced launch dates and it was not completed as per the original spec, that is undisputed, it doesn't make it any less of a game for it, but it is non the less true.

When i first heard about the game i really wanted it to be the vision we had all read about in the manuals all those years ago when playing elite on our BBC B micro's during lunch at school (daydreaming about one day finding a generation ship or owning a thargoid ship), but i also know from following his work over the years that Braben has a track record for not quite getting all the way there as the vision usually outweighed the technology or capability and knowing that is what held me back. Now seeing that last minute turn around on offline confirmed my fears again.

Seriously, WTF was everyone expecting from this expansion?!?

Which ever way you cut it, whatever you add to it, no matter how much content they put in it is still to it's core the same game you have been playing for the last 10 years, so what exactly were you expecting?

I am a raider turned casual and my sons hardcore raid, all of us are enjoying the game as we have for the last 10 years because we still enjoy the core of the game and we are enjoying even more the additional options for everyone to get involved in all levels of the game.

So what can you do? Well pretty much what you have always been able to do, you can do dungeons, you can raid, you can craft, you can cover achievements, you can level more characters, you can do your archaeology, you can do battlegrounds, you can battle your pets. But now you can also take care of your garrison, you can take part in the ongoing PvP area, you can run some re-vamped old content, you can pick up and complete all of the area specific quests, complete your toy selection etc..etc.. but at the end of the day it is still the same game!!!!

Originally posted by dotdotdash

The only reason he's congratulating them is because, when he looks into the freshly-shined leather on his expensive designer shoes for the 7th hour of the day, he can't quite believe that someone managed to actually release a whole game on time.

I mean, it must baffle him.

He must be so confused as to how someone would manage to release a whole game on time that he's scratching his head until it bleeds.

Would it be rude to point out that this game was nowhere near on time and is not complete either as they dropped offline play completely?

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