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All Posts by Shadoed

All Posts by Shadoed

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874 posts found
Originally posted by Rydeson
     My only fear is that Braben tries to compete with Eve Online..  I loved the original Elite when playing the commodore system, and I want that old feeling back.. I tried Eve on a trial basis and didn't like it.. I fear Elite will be too much like Eve and I can honestly say I will not play Elite if it does :(

I am a little different in that i enjoyed EvE to a large degree, i just think that it was flawed in the character progression front only being able to have one meaningful character per account and the whole 'pay to progress' time based training and that it was a huge time sink to actually do anything. That being said, the game itself was involving and well put together, but since CCP have allowed the lunatics to take over the asylum it has gone downhill rapidly. I will never understand how they allow a bunch of guys who don't even pay subs anymore as they generate that much ISK through their actions, to dictate how the game should be shaped as you would think that they may possibly have an agenda there, would you not?

Anyway, i too am looking forward to Braben bringing the vision to life in this game and now having the technology to do so, fill in all of those blanks that we used to have to make up in our own imaginations. There are many places where this could go drastically wrong if it isn't balanced correctly (refer to EvE newbs being taunted in to getting themselves destroyed) which could chase people away from the game before they even get started. To be fair though, Elite was the first dog eat dog game where you took your life in your hands every time you dropped out of the station (or even trying to dock with a station) so it will be interesting to see how that pans out.

Originally posted by NasherUK

As for "pay to win". The game isn't free and neither will the expansions be (unless your an alpha backer). Theres no need for this kind of model.

You would agree though that this is a niche market game at the very least and although it is seeing some growth in interest, it is never going to be a game on a WoW scale and when you look at the closest competition which has to be EVE, they are not maintaining huge numbers themselves.

So, ok, if the game shifts 500,000 copies @ £35, you are looking at an initial income of £17.5Mill (which is generous as i am not taking any costs out of that) which sounds like a lot of money, but when you start to ramp up support, servers, developers to fix bugs, marketing etc, you can burn through that pretty damned quickly. The focus changes then from development to support and maintenance which could possibly slow down any development on an expansion, unless you are willing to either pay for more development resource or sacrifice one or a.n.other element with the possible consequence of losing customers in the process.

Factor in also that in real terms we are already in a 4 month overrun from the original estimate (and ok, i understand it was an estimate) and only have a possible estimate of before the end of the year for launch which could lose some of the built up interest, if a subsequent expansion was to overrun by even a couple of months, where does the money come from to hold up everything else?

Loving the more specific use of phasing so far in the Beta, with individual interactive items now phasing instead of the whole area, so as a random example, if you were sent to knock down a wall on a quest, to you it would stay knocked down but you won't be out of phase with other players for doing so. Very tidy and adds a bit more depth to quests.
Originally posted by Drazo

Braben himself has expressed that he does not like pay-to-win. 

So I don't think you have much to worry about there.

I understand that he does not like that option, but when revenues dry up, people often have to do things that they don't like to do to maintain their business, again something we have seen time and again within this business.

I am seriously not trying to put a downer on what i am hoping will be the fruition of the vision that Braben layed out before us all those decades ago, the visualization of combat that was going on in my imagination when i engaged enemies or tried to get away from the police in front of that wire framed fantasy, but 'in Braben we trust' doesn't get to the heart of the matter in hand.

Originally posted by Axxar

I think a subscription fee would really limit the potential playerbase of this game. Especially as the network architecture is based on a peer to peer model, such an overly greedy move would also cause a major negative backlash from the gaming community as a whole, in addition to greatly limiting sales.

There are already many limiting factors for this game, the franchise is really only well known among the 30-40 somethings, the hardware requirements are pretty high, but would probably attract the EvE crowd (another issue altogether) and it is a space based game which is not to everyones liking. With all of that in mind, i would think that a subscription is the least of the worries on that front and those that understand what a subscription model brings would not object as long as a quality game if delivered and maintained in the same vein.

Since when did subscription = greed? If you are using that money to maintain a good level of development and support for your player base? Support is a huge area where non subscription games tend to fail miserably and decimate their player bases as they feel that they are not being taken care of or listened to.

Originally posted by Teala
Braben is an intelligent and astute businessman.  I do not think you have to worry to much about the future of Elite:Dangerous after it is released.   Let Braben do what Braben does and the Elite franchise will just grow.   So far it seems to be working.   

It is a nice romantic idea, but many companies and astute businessmen with far more financial backing than this game has had so far have travelled this road with what should have been far bigger audiences than this franchise will attract and failed badly due to, lets not say poor planning, but over ambitious planning lets say, so it isn't that my fears are poorly founded.

Before i start, i have to say that i am a huge Braben fan, i spent many lunch times at school on the BBC micros loading up my 51/4 floppy disk copy of Elite and losing myself in the huge universe that he had created for us. I have followed the work since on other machines and still indulge in the original up to this day as it is still, to me, the ultimate vision.

My major concern to date on following this development to date is how it is going to move on and keep on developing after the initial release. As much as i love the concept and the history behind it and from what i have seen it looks like the quality is matching that vision, it is still only going to attract, in my humble opinion, a limited market and with no subscription after initial purchase, where is the revenue going to come from.

Of course there will be expansions to charge for which will bring some revenue in, but my real fear is that they go for micro transactions as a steady income and that would be a huge downward spiral for me. There is already talk i understand of allowing credit purchase with cash, but if that moves on to ship upgrades or even ships, where would it end.

Could all be a storm in a teacup on my end, but i care passionately about the 'Elite' name and would hate to see it disappear down that road. I would be interested to hear how others feel about the revenue structure for the game as there seems to be little information at the moment on that front.

Originally posted by SonOfValmar

Seems your anger is misguided. It is the game companies who choose random persons around the world and then expect them to provide quality testing during their down time for free.

You see how ridiculous that sounds? If you are willing to go out of your way to test someone's product for free then you are the minority. That mentality is not something that should be acceptable for quality products.

If you want betas to be used for proper testing then direct your anger at companies and tell them to leave the testing to trained, payed professionals. Stop relying on the free labor of random people and act like a proper business.

It isn't like Blizzard have just handed over their development to the public and taken all other methods of testing and quality control off the table, the Beta is just the next extension of the testing process. The idea behind it as i see it is to start putting some stress on the product so they can see how it works with hundreds of people trying to do the same thing rather than just a dozen testers for example and then also add in the 'non tester' variable to the equation, in that people will do the strangest things that you would not expect them to do and a tester may not always think of.

You say that it is ridiculous to expect random people to provide quality testing for free, but it has worked for them in the past and it will work for them this time too. Firstly because by just playing the game they are helping with the testing, so those who choose to do nothing but that are helping anyway, but there are also those that want a decent product at the end of this process who will put in some extra effort to report bugs, help devs to understand how and why it is happening which will lead to a quicker resolution than in house testing alone and ultimately a faster development of a more polished product.

Originally posted by MightyUnclean
How long would it take to farm enough coins to get all your Timeless Isle gear up to level 535?

Also, what level is regular raid finder gear now?

Thanks!

All you can really say to that one is 'depends'. 496 gear pretty much drops like rain when you first get there from MOB's and chests, so that will boost you pretty quickly initially.

There are two Burden of Eternity that you can get for free, one from a chest and one from finishing a quest chain, you use those to boost the standard 496 gear to 535 (have to use it on an unopened piece of gear) and the rest really depends on how lucky you get.

The celestials also drop some high level PvP & PvE gear, but you only have a shot at that once a week, so make the most of it by trading in lesser charms of good fortune for warforged seals as they offer you an extra roll when you defeat a celestial.

Other Burdens can be bought for 50,000 coins, picked up as random drops from pretty much all of the tougher MOB's on the island or you may get lucky buying keys and opening chests in one of the caves.

When you first arrive, there is a quest chain to ease you in to what th island is about, make your priority boosting yourself with what is available, food from vendors, food from trees, the 'Book of ages' and 'singing crystals' that drop from MOB's as well as the shrines around the island, these are very inportant to progressing a bit quicker. One especially to look out for is a random drop from the 'Eerie Crystals' found in the cavern of lost spirits which is a 'Crystal of insanity' which boosts all stats by 500 for 60 minutes and unlike other boosts can be used off the isle as well.

Just doing the basic quests and dailies, i had the 20,000 coin weapon within 3 days and that was without taking on any farming.

Also bear in mind that the unused gear can be sent to Alts, so if you get a drop you cannot use on that character, don't just dump it, send it on to give other characters a boost before they arrive at the isle.

Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Shadoed
Originally posted by Mors.Magne

I hate to say this, but I think you are the worst kind of fan - you applaud a game / developer when they do the wrong thing.

Because it is wrong in your eyes it has to be the wrong way, full stop?

I personally fail to see how 729 different combinations is giving you less choice than you had previously? I much prefer the way that it is now to the cookie cutter "illusion of choice" trees that we used to have. Some people may have had their odd quirky builds in the past, but if you wanted to have any impact on certain aspects of the game you were going to end up with the same build as everyone else sooner or later.

I have various characters but always played an 'arcane' mage and mostly solo PvE stuff, so i love the fact that i can have an ice barrier on my arcane build now as that is much more useful to me than several other items that i had to put points in to just to get to a single item that i needed.

I'd say this was largely the result of you building prison walls of your own making, not because of any real need to do so. Min/Maxing is the bane of this genre and I guess one thing we really have WOW to thank for solidifying it so firmly in player's minds.

 

It never had a huge impact on me as i didn't raid much from BC onwards, but you know as much as everyone else that if you wanted a spot within a raiding guild you had to have the proven build, like it or not. There is some mention of the guys playing with the math and proving their builds were better, but all that did was set the new standard that everyone else would then copy and that was very much the exception rather than the rule.

All the new system has done is give everyone what they would have had no choice in anyway and given them more freedom to customise their characters to suite their style of play and i cannot see how that is a bad thing.

Originally posted by davc123

i want start play this game but looks like  too much  complicated

 

 

You will see a lot of posts building the game up as 'the' mature game, the intellectual players game and such, but all in all it is no more complicated than most other games out there once you get in to it and find your niche. There is a fairly shiny looking interface with a lot of choices, but like anything else, that is just a matter of becoming familiar with the bits that you use.

It is going back a bit now but i had two accounts for a while which was useful and i built up a fairly profitable business selling shuttles in 0.0 space as well as other manufacturing. One thing to bear in mind with this game though is that it will suck a HUGE amount of time out of your life if you get in to it, this is no 'quick fix' duck in and duck out type of game, running a simple mining operation with your corp could take several hours on it's own, so if you are going to get in to it, keep your diary clear.

The one thing that this game also has though is a real sense of danger compared to most others and it is one of the few games that can get your adrenalin to kick in as you are waiting to see what is on the other side of the jump you just made. As someone else already said, jump in on the trial and give it a go, you have nothing to lose.

Originally posted by Mors.Magne

I hate to say this, but I think you are the worst kind of fan - you applaud a game / developer when they do the wrong thing.

Because it is wrong in your eyes it has to be the wrong way, full stop?

I personally fail to see how 729 different combinations is giving you less choice than you had previously? I much prefer the way that it is now to the cookie cutter "illusion of choice" trees that we used to have. Some people may have had their odd quirky builds in the past, but if you wanted to have any impact on certain aspects of the game you were going to end up with the same build as everyone else sooner or later.

I have various characters but always played an 'arcane' mage and mostly solo PvE stuff, so i love the fact that i can have an ice barrier on my arcane build now as that is much more useful to me than several other items that i had to put points in to just to get to a single item that i needed.

Rogue and Hunter are both solid DPS classes depending on whether you prefer melee or killing at a distance. The hunter obviously has the advantage of having a pet on hand similar to your Warlock so will probably come a little more naturally to you than a rogue. The other thing to remember with a rogue is that you really need to get the build and rotation right to get the best out of it.

I still have a L85 druid which i just haven't been able to get along with since the Pandaria changes for some reason, but each to their own.

If you have the time it may be worth levelling one of each to 30-40 and see how you get along with it in terms of playing style.

Originally posted by grapevine
As to why? Because people are subscribing to a game for over a year and not getting any new content.  Add that to the cost of the expansion and it's simply a rip off.  Especially when in reality all they are getting is some new raid content, as the levelling experience will be quickly irrelevant.

In all of these posts you are making the assumption that everyone burns through the content at the same accelerated rate but in reality this is no-where near true. What percentage of people do you believe has seen all of the raid content right through until the end compared to what percentage of people are still gearing to get through that content? Check how busy the Timeless isle is even now to get an idea.

As has been said, Blizzard have never been a company to drop a content update just for the sake of it, they have their plans and they stick to them and it has done them no harm to date. I have been in other MMO's that have rushed content because they announce launch dates before having the content ready and it destroys player confidence in the product. For some, no matter how fast they released their content it would never be quick enough.

Originally posted by Keylogger_007

WoW has tainted the whole genre.

Look at the pile of horrible MMO's based around it's design philosophy (Easy goals, spoon feeding instead of education, training), yet lacking in a proper amount of content to hold even a casual player base.

There will never be another proper MMO with a real, stable playerbase, nor will they be able to turn WoW around. Killing it off the rest of the way will change nothing.

It's as if McDonald's was the only restaurant in a large town, people ate BigMacs three meals a day, everyday. While not the best burger in the world; overall? They enjoyed them.

These other businesses see the success, the potential in selling their own BigMacs, they want a piece of the McDonald's moneyfactory; Suddenly there are a dozen other restaurants selling very similar burgers using various qualities of material. Some have great buns, but bad cheese, some have perfect meat patties, but terrible buns and toppings.

No other so far have got it quite right due to budget reasons, inexperience or simply not being intelligent enough to read the market and buckle down, producing what's needed to entice and HOLD a consumer base. Let alone have they realized that after eating BigMacs for so long that nobody (even the really casual consumers) wants more burgers, and as tired as they are of BigMacs, they're comfortable, stagnant and wary of the change to something potentially better, more rewarding, such as pizza, fried chicken or even sea food.

They new restaurant chains and corporations are too afraid to step out of the established, "proven" formula for success known as marketing burgers. This fear will never allow them to open a steak house for example, with the expectation that too many will find the idea of cutting their food or adding steak sauce before consumption will be too much work, thus driving them away, cementing in place the failure of the venture before it's first quarter.

I know nobody will read this, why did I put so much thought into it?

Read, but it is a bit mixed up as you blame wow for tainting the genre and then go on to explain how everyone elses inability to be original is the problem.

You cannot blame Blizzard and WoW for being successful and there were bound to be those that would try and copy that success, but you do have to look at the rest of the industry and ask why they cannot come up with something original of their own (not that WoW was hugely original in itself). I think GW2 got pretty close, but let themselves down by rushing the release and poor support of it's users.

There are those who have some success doing something different like EVE, but have pushed themsleves in to a niche market.

The McDonalds analogy just doesn't wash these days either in the way you are putting it, people are probably more aware of the food they eat than they have ever been which in the UK at least has lead to every town centre and city centre being filled with a plethora of different fast food choices from the healthy to the crazy. So maybe what the gaming community needs is an awareness of what it wants rather than just saying what it doesn't want because if the developers knew what to aim for they could produce a much better targetted game.

Inevitable i guess and that one is pretty damned good, but the same advice always stands, if in doubt, check your account directly, don't follow links in e-mails.
Originally posted by Mpfive

Look past the housing and new models, it's the same ol shit really, plus the the rehashed zones is a let down.

I don't think they know themselves where this game is going, this time travel xpac is proof of that

On a plus though it's nice to see some new 5 man dungeons :)

Difficult to say that the zones are a let down when we haven't really seen much of them yet.

On your other point, what were you really expecting, it is an expansion, not a whole new game, so to all intents and purposes it is the same game with new content, pretty much the definition of an expansion. If you don't like the game for whatever reason now, you are unlikely to like the expansion either, that is no big surprise.

I think the question on direction is not one of them knowing where they are going as they plan very well ahead, it is more of some just don't like the direction they are being taken in, which is natural as you cannot please all of the people, all of the time.

Personally loving what i am hearing so far about it, but the proof is always in the pudding, so we will wait and see when the first set of Beta users get their hands on it.

Originally posted by noncley
These are all interesting things, I grant you, but you have to admit that none of them are exactly game-shaking developments that will magnetically draw new players while solidifying the existing base. There's no 'big idea' here like there was with every other expansion:

The Burning Crusade... Blood Elves and Dranei!

Wrath of the Lich King... Death Knight hero class!

Catacysm... Goblins and Worgen!

MoP: Pandaren!

...Warlord of Draenor: reskinned toons, expansion of farm idea into garrisons, crafting from bank?

 

But what does a new race add but another skin and another 150 quests in a starter zone maybe, but after that you are on the same content as everyone else, with the same end game. Pandaria was the first time that they created a whole zone around a new race and it was pretty good, but it is time to move on to something else.

Adding new classes just creates chaos within itself and they would then spend the whole of the new expansion trying to balance that class against all of the others, which i really don't think i have the strength for and when you look at the classes we have already, there is little room for maneuver to create another that would not clash with the existing ones.

I can't say that i wouldn't be excited to see one or the other added, but after so many years of play, you also know the inherent problems that they bring if not implemented properly, i mean, Death Knights, are they really a 'Hero' class now?

As a long term player, the changes that they are implementing are exciting for me as it shows yet again that they are listening to what the player base wants in the game, but of course putting the Blizzard twist on it.

Originally posted by Mpfive
Originally posted by Shadoed

It does make me chuckle seeing words like 'disgusting' thrown about at this announcement. What is disgusting about it, really, give us one good reason why this is a 'disgusting' move on Blizzards part?

Do i see this as a move to allow new players to skip content - no.

Will some new players use it to skip content - maybe.

Does it have more to do with returning players and them being able to catch up to their previous guild mates etc - totally.

World of Warcraft is a ten year old game with players who have been through the content time and time again and others that left at various stages of expansion that do not want to have to spend the time catching up just to go through the new content with their friends. So personally it makes perfect sense to allow people to do this as it encourages those that left to return and sub once more.

As for the whole 'they will charge for anything' bit, well, just get over it, they are a business first and foremost, not a charity and you are not forced to buy in to this if you don't choose to, you can take your free 90 from buying the expansion and level the rest for yourself anyway. I personally have no need for it as i have all of my chars to 90 already, but i don't pour scorn on those that choose to use the service if they feel it is right for them.

You keep telling yourself that...all your posts are pro - WoW, so it's hard to talk to you

I am a very easy person to talk to, make an argument to and discuss a point with, if you are willing to make an actual point! Your total contribution to this thread in three posts has been the one above and;

"Stop kidding yourself, It stinks, Acibli$$ion stinks."

"Like a mouse to cheese;)"

Both negative posts again without any actual point behind them other than to rubbish Blizzard. I am a fan of the game, i make no bones about that and i state my point very clearly, if you have a counter point that you would like to make then please go ahead and make it, i am always more than willing to concede to a well made argument.......but i am yet to see one.

It does make me chuckle seeing words like 'disgusting' thrown about at this announcement. What is disgusting about it, really, give us one good reason why this is a 'disgusting' move on Blizzards part?

Do i see this as a move to allow new players to skip content - no.

Will some new players use it to skip content - maybe.

Does it have more to do with returning players and them being able to catch up to their previous guild mates etc - totally.

World of Warcraft is a ten year old game with players who have been through the content time and time again and others that left at various stages of expansion that do not want to have to spend the time catching up just to go through the new content with their friends. So personally it makes perfect sense to allow people to do this as it encourages those that left to return and sub once more.

As for the whole 'they will charge for anything' bit, well, just get over it, they are a business first and foremost, not a charity and you are not forced to buy in to this if you don't choose to, you can take your free 90 from buying the expansion and level the rest for yourself anyway. I personally have no need for it as i have all of my chars to 90 already, but i don't pour scorn on those that choose to use the service if they feel it is right for them.

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