I still have not forgiven or forgotten the mess of a release that was Age of Conan.  

I'm sad to see things haven't improved much on the gameplay side of things.  It sure does look purty though.

For those of you who are still playing in the hopes that they will turn this trainwreck around. Spoiler: they won't.

Crashloop,

OK, they defrauded me.  Hrrm, doesn't feel any different.

I'm not speculating as to the "why" they ripped me off, as you said we'll never know the full truth.  I am interested in seeing the consequences of their actions and voicing my opinion of their unethical business practices to anyone who will listen.  They made an unethical decision, no matter how you look at it, I want to see consumer opinion win on this one.

I also knew that there was a chance the game would be a total stinker.  That doesn't absolve them of responsibility.

I'll end my portion there.  We're arguing the same points.  The only difference seems to be you think dissenters shouldn't voice their opinion of it any longer where as I feel there isn't a statute of limitations on it :)

Originally posted by Drednaught

Heavy handed? the SWG forum has been split so it set a precedent in doing so.Appears the website is heavy handed then? no?

edited for spelling mistake

SWG was the reason I registered on the site, so yeah I'm fully aware of what happened after the NGE.  I'm not sure if you were around at the time but the threads being created there needed to be moderated somehow.  I didn't envy mmorpg.com in making the decision.  That being said I don't think the discourse on this forum has approached anything close to the NGE rage :)

My point still stands though.  Stifling opinion, good or bad, wouldn't benefit anyone.

Man oh man. Why would you want to stifle the opinion of someone who has played the game at any point? Where is the line drawn?

If When the expansion gets released should the forums split off again? I mean, there will be opinions from people who played before the expansion that needs to get swept off into another forum right? Those players wouldn't know anything about the expansion first hand so they shouldn't be able to tell any potential customer what they thought of their experience, right?

Do you see where this is going? If you're a subscriber you have the official forum to praise the game and help new players as much as you want. You don't think a potential customer will peruse those forums? Mmorpg.com's forums are a discussion of the game, and let's face it - the companies behind them, in a good or bad light. Silence me with good points and discussion, not heavy handed tactics like what you are proposing. This website is better than that.

Crashloop,

Your personal narrow definition of stealing goes against a general understanding that stealing can consist of misrepresentation and false claims. Both of which were practiced by Funcom. If you want to argue minutiae in a court of law, feel free. I personally just want to excercise my consumer rights, namely the right to be heard and the right to redress.

As a Director, Gaute's decisions reflect on the company. If you want to believe that Gaute personally drove the game into the ground then you must accept that no one else at the company stopped him. For that reason alone the company as a whole should be held accountable. There are many examples of this in our history, including Enron and more recently Satyam Computer. Because it's video games people seem to think it shouldn't matter. It baffles me.

We're getting sidetracked though. Just consider this, if the game box had a sticker that said "everything we've told you will be implemented fully within 10 months. Except drunken brawling, that's gone forever." would you have bought it? I sure wouldn't have. The game was not ready for launch, they did not inform us of that and so therfore stole our money. That is the simple truth.  No amount of crocodile tears from the company's graphic design department is going to change that.

@ atmorat : You seem to keep dismissing the actions of the company and basically want the game judged on your personal contributions. What's up with that? The game is beautiful, the graphics are fantastic. Does that make you feel better? The rest of it is kind of poop though. Stop hinting at "greater knowledge" of all things when you can't divulge any of it. Makes you sound like a condescending ass.

@ Crashloop : If you want to twist the meaning of false advertising so you can sleep at night, go right ahead. Apologists like yourself enable these companies to keep fleecing well intentioned customers. What irks me is that you act like this company deserves a break when they've done this twice. Twice! Like the official Funcom mouthpieces you haven't given an explanation why Funcom basically fell into the same pattern that they did 7 years ago with AO. That pisses me off more than the release of an unfinished game. A company that is allowed to do this more than once will keep doing it. They should be held accountable and stopped. Making comparisons to the Holocaust doesn't make your argument any stronger.

And for the record, because you guys love to re-write history so much, there was no mounted combat nor sieging at launch. Bugs prevented the use of both.

atmogat, your post is all about garnering sympathy.  Unfortunately, I don't have any for you or your company.  I'm sorry that you may lose your job and I don't wish any ill will towards you personally but the company you work for should be held accountable for those bad decisions you alluded to.  I've yet to see any kind of sincere apology from the mouth pieces over there.  In fact I see Erling continually attempt to re-write the facts of the game's disastrous launch and post launch. 

Stealing my money to put bread on your table is unethical anyway you look at it.  That is what your company is.  An unethical business willing to abuse and cheat paying customers.  I wouldn't be half as angry if you guys didn't already rip me off with Anarchy Online.  You fooled me twice, and I will be damned if I'm going to keep quiet about that. 

So the reality of the situation is your game was not ready for launch but you made the decision to move forward any way.  You made your bed and now you have to lie in it.  If your bankruptcy can be held up as a just example of consumer rights then I can't wait to see it proven. 

When you rush a poorly developed game out for launch once, it's an unfortunate turn of events caused by outside pressures. When you do it twice it's a business practice.  I have no sympathy for thieves.

I will never forget, I will never forgive.

This is actually pretty cool.  Ryzom had a similar roleplay initiative from its devs.  If I had known EvE had this I would have joined years ago.

Originally posted by RightInThere

Hey, nice text, but god damn it reading your last statements it sounds like you are talking about the Holocaust or another crime against humanity. Let me just remind you, you speak about a game.

Bit of an extreme analogy :P

I'm not losing any sleep over this but I'll be damned if I'm going to stay quiet while a company, gaming or otherwise, rips me off. Twice. Games are a product like any other; I would be just as incensed if my contractor sold me a bathroom without a toilet but promised me it would be installed by "late June." Companies shouldn't get away with this. People shouldn't be apologizing for them. A certain level of quality should be expected from software that I have to pay for.

I think it's ridiculous how this reversal of roles are afforded to MMO companies in particular. We are their customer, they should be held accountable for their actions. Instead, you have a vocal minority willing to stick up for unethical business practices and blatant false advertising.

I've been seeing a gradual shift by the mouthpieces at Funcom in the last couple of months.

Interviews with the game director, statements on the official forums, responses by their most ardent fans. The general theme in all of them, "Mistakes were made but we're moving forward and learning from them."

Normally such a hollow line of deflection wouldn't bother me, except for one glaring fact: they've done this before. They've launched a game in a terrible state and abused their subscribers. Everything that could have gone wrong did go wrong with Anarchy Online. Yet no one at Funcom will make the comparison other than server stability. Not mentioned once post release, though parroted by almost every spokesman from the company pre-release, is the vaunted experience and knowledge gained from those terrible events more than 7 years ago.

• Launch features that weren't there at launch
• A graphic engine in desperate need of optimization
• Little communication from the developers
• A buggy mess of a game
• Terrible patching schedule that served to break the game more than it helped
• Timelines that were ludicrous - blatant lies that could never be accomplished
• A buggy billing system
• Corrupt and laughable GMs

Through all of this, Funcom maintained their hubris. A perfect launch. Steak, not burgers. Unimportant features. Look, an expansion!

It's easy to look back and say mistakes were made. The true test of a company is how they handle the pressure as it happens. I can only state, in my opinion, that they failed that test in every way. Moving forward is an admirable statement, but without specific acknowledgement of their past mistakes how are we to hold them accountable for anything in the future? Let's not forget what we went through for this company. Let's not forget their deceit.

Twice. They've done it twice. I will never forget. I will never forgive.
 

So PvP resources sounds exactly like... (wait for it) Blood Money!  Remember that gem of an idea from the Erling and Gaute show?  So basically Funcom took a feature they couldn't deliver at launch, renamed it, then sold it to you guys as an innovation in PvP mechanics! 

Wonderful!

Originally posted by convict

forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php

The issues in that forum have to be bugs, I can't think they actually intended some of that.

Begs the question how it got out of test-live in that state though.

Originally posted by FC-Famine 

Question of the ages really. I think if we had spent 5 years on just the crafting system then we would have the best crafting system in any MMO to date but you would not be able to see or play it. We wouldn't have any time to implement server structures, multiplayer mechanics, character development, character progression systems, graphics, and so on.

I think this is why I highlight the amount of passion, hardwork and so on it takes to build something as massive as this type of game in the genre from the ground up. You simply don't have all the time in the world nor unlimited resources to do it with. It's not really something to use as any type of excuse but it should be mentioned because it is very important to mention.

Of course you can argue that all day long for the end of time but it doesn't fix the problem. I think we rather just fix the problem and learn from it in the future of change for the game. I hate stepping backwards; rather be stepping forward.

 

Oh wow this is rich. You made the same mistakes with Anarchy Online! You people didn't seem to learn a god damn thing. Maybe having some accountability internally will actually allow you to live up to the history you are re-writing. You over-hyped and under delivered. You lied to the player base to string them along all the while ignoring the criticism, deferring the responsibility and just outright make the most incompetent decisions I've ever seen.

I can't WAIT to read your post mortem. I'm going to make a cup of hot cocoa and bake a pie :D I'm going to celebrate the anniversary for years to come. MMMmmmmMMM I can't wait!

Originally posted by FC-Famine

Originally posted by octa

Do you have screenshots or videos to back this up?  I'm truly interested to know.  The newest vids I saw (about 2 weeks ago) still had groups looking fairly the same...  Especially the big raid vids.

 

There are lots of new things coming in the upcoming updates. Some items, some dungeons, some crafting, and some revamps. Crafting is getting some much needed love from our new designer. He has been hard at work trying to revamp the system to make it more viable based on player feedback. Item wise, there are things happening but more on that can be shed by our game director later on. We've already announced a few end-game content with dungeons and the attached items.

I think the biggest thing with items now is the concerns with item drops. The developers are currently looking at the system to see if there is any issues with how loot dropping is calculated.

No idea why you quoted me to spit out a press release. I'm still hearing "things are coming" or "later on" and my favorite: "announced." None of this equates to what is here and now. 41,000 items is a great bullet point but where's the evidence of these items having any "real game" use? People usually wear things that give them the best stats and unfortunately that seems to come down to 1 or 2 sets at a certain level. Raid gear seems to have the same issue. This game, almost more than any other high budget MMO, seems to lack the item variety expected in the genre.

Do you have screenshots or videos to back this up?  I'm truly interested to know.  The newest vids I saw (about 2 weeks ago) still had groups looking fairly the same...  Especially the big raid vids.

Originally posted by BearShammy 

In that case, can you pull out that FC doll again and show us where it hurts?

It still hurts in the wallet.  God damn collector's edition >_<  It's not even good enough for a paperweight.

This is the natural cycle of a dying MMO.  The hardcore grind-a-holics will come out in droves to blindly support their broken, ill-fated, game.  I mean, who wants to admit they wasted months of their life into something that had no chance.

Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault, AC2.  I've seen it many a times.  You are a symptom.  One of many we will begin to see as FC flails around in its death throes.

Originally posted by Murdus 

Never hold grudges.. unless you're talking about SOE, then its ok.

Nahhh I'll keep holding the grudge, thanks. 

Re: the news

All I can do is a Nelson "HaHa."  They should have merged months ago.  Too bad about all those Battlekeeps.  Hope you didn't grind too hard.

Awww I was hoping for an Asheron's Call 2 reference.

Long-winded game directors are long-winded.

He said the same thing for 4 paragraphs; way to fill up the space there.

From the FAQ:

"Can a character be transferred from one server ruleset to another (e.g. from a PvE server to a PvP server)?

Yes, that will be possible."
 

Uhhhhh.  Hah...?