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All Posts by battlesam

All Posts by battlesam

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12 posts found

I played Daoc for years, WoW, Warhammer, GW2, ESO


PvP zone is to big (it takes to long to get to where you "should" be).

Not at all. Using the Transit system, forward camps, and feeding your horse an apple a day, makes this completely not true.


Your effort as a player doesn't give you a feeling of contributing to the outcome of the battle. (WoW; Arena, BGs and AoC: mini games, sieging: certainly gives you that)

That will change with experience. No doubt the first few times you go to RvR it can feel like a blur. But once you begin to gain experience you will be more and more useful to the point where you often can affect battle outcomes.


Anonymous: way to many players on each side to get a feeling of recognizing and getting synergies between players you recognize from other battles, and to pick up what abilities players on you side is doing and acting on it. 

Surprisingly quite the opposite. When you have small scale like the cross server BGs in WoW, you often play with completely different and random people. Even in a pre-made situation, the group members will change each night unless you have a set guild group. In ESO with large groups of 24, often you recognize the same people nightly for weeks on end.


Objectives: hardly matter and roaming around as a big group gives just as much alliance points.

Totally untrue and this is where ESO comes close to DAoC and differs most from GW2, (which was a piss poor RvR implementation, IMO). The scrolls matter because of the buffs and the emperor buffs are significant. Certain keeps unlock the scroll gates and the inner ring of keeps unlocks emperor status. Also Darkness Falls in DAoC, (the best dungeon ever created in an MMORPG, IMHO), was a pvp dungeon to which you gained access by holding keeps. In ESO the equivalent will be the Imperial City which you should be coming soon in a future major update.


Guilds: do no really have incentives to conquer and defend what they have taken. And there is hardly any rivalry between opposing  guilds

Dunno, I’ve not been in guilds much, they just don’t make sense for MMORPGs, but that’s just me. In ESO, getting in a large group has been ‘insta’ every time I go in pvp so it’s all good.


(my last point is not strictly due to RvR, but the lack of collision detection and other game mechanics does narrow the roles in PvP down to AoE, heal and last long (Dragonknight) and non-staff-wielding nightblade doesn't really have a certain role to fill)

Yes, sorry I don’t agree with this either really. I’ve played all four extensively in pvp. Each has it’s strengths and weaknesses. The NB as a dual dagger stealther is a ton of fun. Single target stealthers f-up the stragglers and those trying to get to the herd, and the NBs do that job well. You can use a bow for AOE and range and that can be very effective as well.


Here’s what I do now. I level a toon to 10, then level up in pvp only. (I do try to get all the skyhards in the pve zones to keep pace.) It doesn’t take long before I can be very effective in pvp. One key is to always use siege equipment: trebs for walls, cats for players, and ballista for enemy siege. I also craft armour sets and use the guild stores to fill in some pieces. (You make a ton of gold in pvp now.)


Last thing, I’ve only played EP. No idea why as i never played a single Elder scrolls game before.

Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.

I never believed the bugs or the bots were that serious. Those problems are easily fixable. The bigger problem, the one which caused the mass exodus is a design issue, imo.

In a nutshell the population spreads out so thinly by Vet time that the impetus for playing disappears. Certainly the “solo” aspect to the game compounds that problem, but in the world of MMO’s low population is king…of death. Maybe the game world in ESO and Cyrodill in particular is too big.

It seems to me the game was originally built with Cyrodill functioning as the main end game. (Certainly the itemization in the game leads one to that conclusion.) The decision to access the other realms and force Vet levels on everyone changed the nature of the game from pvp to pve. The pve was thus tacked on to a pvp game. (At least ESO can claim that as a first, dubious as it is).

I think Vet levels put an unexpected pve barrier between level 50 and Cyrodill effectively reducing the subscription population. So, is character progression necessary in the secondary realms? Can’t the other factions be a place of slightly harder dungeons or something?

The second thing on my mind is the lack of connections between places in the game world. WOW had linear progression zone by zone crap, but at least they had two continents which you continuously visited, and the major cities, Orgrimmar in my case, was a hub. Who the *** goes to Mournhold? But more importantly this zone by zone levelling is passé. Why can’t you do some level 1-20 quests in all the zones and then go back and forth? That would have made the most sense especially in a game like ESO. For example as a level 15 EP main story quest you travel to Auridon to assassinate someone.

I do believe this is the nicest game world I’ve seen and maybe, just maybe, the trend for these large companies to spend a ton of money on MMORPG game development only to see an epic fail is changing. Maybe it’s build it and then after 4-5 months close, rework, and reboot.


I don't agree that a review of the game should focus on the launch. The early bugs/exploits/dupes etc., especially when they are fixed very quickly, shouldn't really be a part of a review of the game. The game stands or falls on its design and realization of that design. I find very little lag in pvp and I was able to complete every single quest I attempted, currently level 37.  The worst I've encountered is falling through the world a few times.


I've played many of the MMOs beginning with DAoC, and next to WoW this one has the most impressive degree of polish, which to me are refinements to the basic game. I can't think of a game since WoW with greater scope of content. I mean the number of quests is mind boggling, yet you can easily grind away and level as fast if not faster. I even got a couple of full levels doing pvp mission quests. The crafting system here is to die for.


There are problems with this game to be sure, but launch bugs don't count imo. The playability of Cyrodiil and the future of the 1-50 zones are the questions I have for this game.



Imho, a MMO brings a single player game to life! From Civilization to Panzer General or even to Skyrim, none of those games were even remotely interesting compared to DAoC, which was my first MMO experience. MMOs allow you to play with other people, but in pvp you compete against people to a greater degree than in any other gaming experience. (Yea an organized small group can kick ass, but having 100 people organized is something to behold, they can rule that world.) Fortunately one of the main architects of DAoC is the lead here in ESO and he has brought the same paradigm to ESO: three faction pvp combined with realm pride. From what I’ve seen so far in Cyrodill it looks good, but we will never really know until a few months post launch.

My first beta experience was WOW and at the end of beta the most annoying thing to me was the ‘loot lag’. You kill a mob, then you sit stuck for 60 seconds or so crouched over the mob until the server has recorded the loot and responds. The same loot lag existed for at least the first 3 weeks after launch. No game since, however, had more polish than WOW at release. The detail in that game was remarkable. Of course, the pvp in WoW was substandard because it was fragmented and without a central plan, (although the classes themselves were immensely fun). The endgames of WOW were a collection of treadmills spread throughout the theme park. IMO Cyrodil is not a treadmill, it’s a ride that’s a blast. (And not a single BG in ESO, that’s ballsy!)

Warhammer was a complete mess, but oh what a mess! Public quests were a revolutionary feature, the graphics were so ‘not-WOW’, but the best thing about Warhammer were the classes. Like DAoC, WAR had lots and each was arguably unique, not trivial, and fun. The RVR lakes in Tier 1 and especially 2 were godly once they got rolling a couple of months after launch, but by then the game had contracted a terminal illness. The piss poor crafting system, the fragmentation of the population caused by the BG levelling alternative, the shitty game world, the small, weak RvR content, etc, is all absent in the design of ESO. In a nutshell, WAR was a confused design, ESO is not.

Too me GW2, a successful title, demonstrates the inadequacy of the F2P model for a AAA MMORPG. When you get down to it, nothing substantial has been added to that game since release. DAoC, WOW, and WAR all had multiple major content additions because the subscription revenue allowed them to budget for that work. The additional guilds to the Mage, Fighters, and Undaunted, a Darkness Falls-like dungeon and adventure zones, are but a few major content additions one can expect in the early future of ESO. Like the James Cameron movies, big ideas require big money.

A year ago when Zenimax revealed the game, the Elder Scrolls and the MMO communities both complained vehemently about a poor implementation of the ES titles. The company didn’t fight with PR, they shut up and got to work to bend the MMO to the will of the fans. They succeeded. That more than anything tells me this game has a bright future.

Not even gonna think about this game for the next two weeks. Then my kid and I will put a Dunmer Sorc on a rope to 50 for Cyrodil. 


The MMO surface has barely been scratched yet. When you boil it all down, EQ 1 - Next, DAoC, WOW, WAR, Conan, GW2, LotR - they're all the same game. MMOs have barely begun. We're still in the infancy stage, and one baby started to walk and fell over. 


The reality of millions of humans connected via computers is the ultimate gaming environment. We've only just begun...


I was there at the beginning of DAoC, and beta tested WAR and subsequently played for a month or two.


WAR was two games overlaid, that is why it seemed too instanced. Imo, war was first a collection of BGs. You flew to the Dwarf world to get in some BGs, you flew to the Elf world to get in others. 


This pattern was thus stamped on to the pve/rvr lakes world too. This created a non-communicative, non-linear, non-progressive feeling to the entire game. My belief is Mythic alone was responsible for this, and I think it was a misguided result of WoW chasing.


Public questing has proven to be a revolutionary MMORPG feature, but I think RvR Lakes could prove to be even more important . WAR had most of the pieces to make a truly great game, but the pieces were arranged very, very poorly due to the developer's hard on with BGs.


The real innovation of WAR was an overall model for games, (one which ESO failed to see)

  1. PVE centric games should use the PVE/BG instances model.
  2. PVP centric games should use the PVE/RvR lakes model




Originally posted by jimprouner

"The reason all recent MMOs have failed is pure greed."   --- That is a false statement.

A)  "It[F2P] is the growing trend in the market."  -- That is a false statement.

B) "These is no end game content."   -- That is a false statement.


1) Careless usage of the word 'all' often results in false statements.

2) F2P is "a" trend, not "the" trend.  

3) lol

Low population is a death nail for any MMORPG and certainly F2P can help alleviate that, but my experience has been that sub games have retained my interest longer than F2P. DAoC and WoW kept me interested much longer than Rift or GW2. No matter what, I think a company is better going P2P first, then going F2P if needed, but DAoC and WoW are still in ch-ching mode.

Boxed price + sub + cash shop = WoW mode. Pretty much impossible to argue against that.

One thing Blizzard did at the start of WOW was to allow skill respecs for ridiculously small amounts of  game coin because they realized respecing was essential to game play.I remember the early days of DAoC, before WoW, and many were supremely pissed at the lack of respecs. Some people were like, "What the fuck is going on? This game is called Camelot and I'm a 50 Albion Armsman specced full Poleman and my spec is gimped? WTF? And worse, I cannot respec?" 


And the idea of rerolling on DAoC was absurd since levelling to 50 was insanely difficult. My most memorable accomplishment ever in gaming is crystal clear, it was levelling my first level 50 in DAoC on Andred the PvP, FFA server. I remember when the server opened, it was like being in India: there was not one square inch of the map you could go without seeing other players, and on a FFA server that was nuts.


However, if someone wants a name change then, I agree, that's a different story. I have my personal collection of character names that I've built up over the years. They are original, rp, cool sounding, but most importantly, as unnoticeable as a tree in a forest. If some asshole choses a name like "Carebear" or "Legolaslol" and gets gang pk'd a thousand times, then maybe he or she SHOULD pay to have it changed. 


I remember sitting in Wintergrasp one time on Tichondrius server in WoW watching some morons on Celestial Steed mounts, which could only be obtained by paying $25 at the cash shop. At the time I thought, "that's wild that someone could actually sell pixels that artistically didn't look that good, really they looked like shit, but sell probably hundreds for $25 each. That's crazy easy money."  But never did I think Blizzard should not do it, I mean c'mon, it wasn't my fuckin game. Besides, it didn't affect my game experience one bit, imo all the in game mounts were better.


I would encourage Zen to make as much money as possible because I don't want GW2 patches with shit content, I want DAoC patches and WoW patches with real content. The last complete game M. Firor was associated with was DAoC so he definitely deserves this chance.



+ It sounds like a top notch AAA MMORPG theme park, but with PVP BUILT IN!!!!! -Long Live DAoC!

+ Crafting done right, where your best items CAN be made.

+ Amazing background story.

+ Dark, lean graphics which suit the PVP bent. (The first thing a pvper does is shut off the graphics anyways. "That the other guy IS dead is more important than how I looked fighting him.")

+ There is talk they will add a public dungeon similar to Darkness Falls from DAoC, which IMHO is still hands down the greatest dungeon ever in a MMORPG. That will probably come in a patch after release.

+ No tab targeting.

+ No cross-realm nonsense.



- The "Megaserver" technology applies to PvE only, which is somewhat meaningless for a PvP game, yes?

- While the game seems well-rounded, I don't get a sense of any innovations here, certainly not revolutionary like RvR (DAoC), Public Questing (Warhammer), mounts (WOW).

- I'm worried about PvP servers (or campaigns, or whatever they're called). It sounds like regular servers we've seen in the past. They start with a ton of servers, then peeps disappear, then you need server transfers, etc. It just doesn't sound like they solved anything on this front. 

- They better have lots of PVE content cuz it sounds like the PVP queues could be ridiculously long no matter what. And, if they want AvAvA balanced numerically and one faction is underplayed say hello to insanely fricking long queues. Play the undermanned faction, probably Aldemeri.


? The big question mark is the "feel" of the characters. The feeling in DAoC, WOW, Warhammer was pretty good, GW2 = very, very bland.

if you want pvp, play TESO.

EQ has always been a PVE franchise, and c'mon, the big day, the big reveal and they don't mention PVP? You might see BG's, or Esport or maybe even a WoW Wintergrasp thing, but forget PvP in EQNext. That's been written at this point.

Titan is not a mystery. There has been no real competitor for WoW yet. The company still brings in at a minimum 1 billion a year in revenue. So there is zero reason to make Titan a reality at this point. None, zilch. No intelligent billion dollar business will risk replacing Wow if they don't have to.
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