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All Posts by azzamasin

All Posts by azzamasin

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2976 posts found
Originally posted by Adamantine
Originally posted by azzamasin

We're dealing with a Niche class within a Niche genre.  It isn't hard to fathom why hardly anyone creates those un-wanted classes.

I'm confused. According to you, niche products are supposed to suck, or to be trivial and of little value, because they are niche ? Or what exactly is the logic of your posting ?

It isn't that hard to figure out now is it?  If you can't understand why hardly any devs create such unwanted class design in their MMO's then you my friend need to get a clue.

Originally posted by Graveblade

I had a little idea about a concept for an interesting sandbox mmorpg...


Consider a true sandbox where crafting, tradeskills and business and full loot are a major part of the game.... (like how it is in ultima online or eve for example and I suppose a little like darkfall but even more sandbox and trade orientated)



It would be interesting to have a world in which everyone spawns essentially naked with no skills, in a different town randomly in a world which is made up literally of hundreds of towns which has a vast landscape.

In such a game when it comes to economy, it would be great for community it promotes traders who come from your own town to actually be vital to its growth and power of the players and to make bonds with those players (perhaps there could be an option to come from the same town s a friend). Also for players to band together if player invaders come for example or help someone who lost their gear to another player.

Think along the lines of eve online with solar systems but where each solar system is a town and you would have to travel long distances between each town, between the towns is ofcourse monsters, special areas, trade related areas like mines, forests etc. I think such a game with that base concept could turn out to be interesting if would be proper sandbox. Kind of like the next evolution of ultima online.


Do you think a game like that would interest you?

Sadnbox does no equal Full loot, Crafting focused, PvP.  So no that wouldn't interest me in the slightest in fact it would be just as unpopular and deemed a failure as the last 9797 MMO's like this. 


If I had a 1$ for every Themepark WoW Clone or PvP Sandbox I'd be bale to fund my own MMO.  Here's a novel concept, lets create a new type of MMO with a different approach from the last 15 years of MMO development. 

Originally posted by Electro057

I've realized in games of recent that there's a severe lack of support classes, that is classes that aren't healers but rather they specialize in buffing the party and using spells that control the field of battle or tempo of a fight. Things like Bards! What happened to this role in MMOs? It was always my favourite, playing strategist and mascot in the backlines.

We're dealing with a Niche class within a Niche genre.  It isn't hard to fathom why hardly anyone creates those un-wanted classes.

Originally posted by filmoret
Personally I love massive pvp but for some reason its a niche thing that doesn't appear to be growing very well.  At first glance people usually just scream zergfest then cry and run away and goto a forum and write a post in utter despair.  Having played Rift's 180 person fights and actually paying attention to what was happening you could see group organization and tactics.  Same thing for GW2 but one can easily get bored of the player stacking that occurs.  But for someone to cry about ESO's cyrodiil just boggles my mind altogether.  What are people expecting from massive warfare?  You get rewards for winning and using strategies and tactics trump a mindless zerg any day.  Yet people will continually write articles about how zergy and crappy and pointless it all is.

PvP in RPG's are a niche commodity. 


What I am about to say is the predominant feeling and line of thinking for the average PvE RPG player (MMO or otherwise):  There is no point in PvP, the entire scope of and basic premise of MMO's in particular and RPG's in general is a PvE centric model.  PvP makes no sense.  PvP should be relegated to genres such as FPS's and MOBA's.



Crafting centric, Forced Grouping.  No thanks!
Originally posted by Samatman

I see it a lot these days - "make group content", "forced grouping is good", "solo progression destroys communities".  It's as if we have to pick a side and stay there forever.  I just don't buy it.  Here are my thoughts on what made EQ challenging and why grouping just made sense without being "forced".

Player to mob power ratio:

In general on any one even con mob, if tackled solo, you had a pretty big chance of dying.  Player to mob power ratios were skewed in favor of the mob and we knew it.  To make things worse (i.e. more challenging), just what were you going to do at Orc 1 without help?  There's 5 orcs there and if you pull one, you pull them all.  You needed help and rather than waste time trying and dying, you grabbed the next guy to come along and grouped.  The next guy hardly needed to be asked if he wanted to join because he was in the same situation.

Dangerous environment:

In the beginning, when it rained in EQ, I would sit down and stop moving.  Hopefully I was somewhere safe to begin with.  Why?  You couldn't see a damn thing.  EQ had tons of roaming mobs that were almost all aggressive.  When it wasn't raining, you still had to master situational awareness when fighting something because adds meant you had to flee or die (and fleeing usually meant dying too).  To complicate things, zones like Warslik's Woods had so many trees there was no way you could consider fighting something in the middle of the forest.  You had to work from safe spots and "pull" mobs there to fight.  People congregated at these pull spots and groups formed naturally. Environmental obfuscation, whether rain or trees, was a design element used a lot in EQ and it worked very well to make things much more dangerous.

Mob AI and faction:

While the AI was pretty rudimentary, it mattered in almost every situation.  Did a mob have social aggro?  Would the bear walking by care if I am fighting a lion?  Is that iksar KOS to me or just dubious?  We didn't just hop on a horse and tear through west commonlands without a care in the world.  You had to target and con everything in your path and make decisions actively.  Mobs didn't leash so if you got aggro you couldn't handle, it was fight here and now, or click your "train to zone" macro.  


If you played EQ you died, and usually a lot.  And it hurt.  You lost levels.  You respawned across the entire world naked.  You had huge incentive to try very hard to not die but had to prepare for the worst with almost every encounter.  Soloing, even just simple travel, was extremely risky and to mitigate the risk of death you sought out groups everywhere you went.  Even if you were just running from Qeynos to Highpass you wanted people with you for the journey.  This wasn't forced grouping, it was grouping for obvious mutual benefit at every turn in the world.

Grouping vs. solo:

For most classes, soloing was just a tedious waste of time.  It wasn't that you couldn't solo easy stuff, we all did.  But getting a group was where the sweet spot was.  When you were in that special group which happened from time to time, when everything just meshed perfectly and the exp flowed in, it was the highlight of the day or even week.  The other really amazing thing that now is vanishing in modern MMOs is that while you were waiting for the next pull, or when we were medding, everyone in the group talked.  We were able to talk because the game pace wasn't a frenetic button mashing face roll with people yelling "pull faster!" (except for bards who couldn't talk anyway until the melody command was added).  The pace of the game wasn't determined by the number of nearby mobs, but by the rates of health and mana regen.  Original EQ may have been a little heavy handed here but this is something that has to be carefully tuned.  And the correct tuning is right where people feel free to chat while sitting through some downtime.

Everyone has times when they will choose to solo.  Times when you have 15 minutes and just want to kill something.  Times when you will be frequently interrupted, maybe by a young child.  The great thing was EQ let you solo by greatly increasing your downtime and risk.  But EQ was tuned to let a group accomplish things at a nice pace with far less risk and more reward.

I hope that that's the sweet spot that Pantheon is also aiming for as well.

Grouping is good.  Forced grouping as the only means of progression is horrible game design.  Not everyone has the patience, mindset, time or social ability to group.  Many gamers are Introverts and to force those to play a particular style is a travesty.


You can create rewarding group play easily just look to games like Asheron's Call or Path of Exile for proper group dynamics.

Originally posted by Tamanous

Tab, reticle , aim by cow .... don't care.


What matters to me (if I can stand the game itself) is that I am not stuck with 5 or so skills to work with. If this developer starts selling action combat with limited skill selection for "strategic" gaming .... fuck that, done with it. They can shove their game for idiots down the drain with the other mmos that went that direction.

I agree 5 is too small but I'd like to hear how many skills you'd use?


For me 10-12 is the most optimum.  Gives about 5-6 skills for constant use and the rest for sporadic use.

Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by tryklon

Why would I do that? Theres no shortage of other games to play...


Oh, great... Another guy who's only requirement for a game is that it is free. This mindset is a plague on the genre.


Look, you clearly wanted to play GW2, so it's clear that you like it. Do you not think games that you like and enjoy are worth your money?

Do you not want to see more of the type of game that you enjoy being made? Because that only happens when you put your money into the market.



Problem is its free for some and a fee for others. It should be free for all, or everyone should have to pay.

It is Free for All. you just had to log in during the events to be able to access them.


Look at it like this, some games will tell you to get bent if you missed episodic content.  At least GW2 gives you the option to spend a measly sum  (compared to a subscription) for the opportunity.

Originally posted by tryklon

Like the title says, this is ridiculous. Is this their idea of calling players back?

I bought the box, and stopped playing a month after simply because the game had many problems in that time. Now, after seeing that a new Xpansion is arriving I decided to reinstall and retry the game, only to see that I have to pay to play...

If you left a month after launch then you have no need to do those story quests.  Plenty of other things to do.  I also disagree with your premise that the game had many problems.  GW2 was one of the smoothest launched MMO's in history.


For the record, in a traditional MMO you'd have to spend $15 to come back so whats the deal with having to spend $3 for content?  Are you seriously going to say $15 is a better deal then $3?



Originally posted by StiviRibar
Originally posted by Tyggs
Wait... Are classes race-bound?

Some are,like the Forgemaster. But most of the races can use the assasin class for example.

That's horrible game design.  Having Classes in a sandbox is bad enough but to further restrict classes from certain races is too much for me to handle.  Just boggles my mind that a developer would put so much restriction in a sandbox game.

I haven't played an MMO for more then a couple of weeks for over 3 years now!  For me EQN was my last hurrah but unfortunately I sincerely think it will end up getting canned.  Not many MMO's are ever designed with me and my sub-type in mind which is sad.  I got my start in Asheron's Call back in 1999 so to me that will always be my preferred game style.  An open world, seemless, non-instanced PvE centric sandbox which eschewed crafting in favor of ARPG style loot systems.  It also was the first that rewarded solo lay and gave the player a sense of freedom and virtual world.


Now that I find myself without an MMO I have gravitated toward more single player games and ARPG's and to be honest I am not even mad.  Looks like the MMO world will have to go on without me.

Originally posted by Amjoco
I'm looking forward to it. I have been wanting to play for weeks but didn't want to plop $15 down and then find out I really wasn't going to enjoy it. Now, I will be able to play at my leisure like in GW2 and TSW. I hate feeling pressured to play because I have a subscription.

Which is why I love F2P/B2P business models.  Lets me enjoy an MMO of any game to be honest, at my leisure and not feel cheated cause I am forced to pay a subscription.

Originally posted by kitarad
I am playing it so no. I do not need to have the sub removed to play. We should support the games we like not based on what their payment system is.

Are you planning on supporting it when it does drop the sub?

Regardless of the Definitions that sites like that use it kind of surprises me that most of you all here can't fathom the undeniable shortcoming in (TRUE) MMO.  Since WoW, not a single MMO has proven to be remotely mainstream, popular or a commercial success.  (TRUE) MMO's are a niche within a niche and will always remain that way.  You best be on your knees thinking the MMO gods for your indie developers and start working with and supporting these small projects cause ain't no way in hell you'll ever, ever, ever see a mega popular mainstream (TRUE) MMO.
Originally posted by Thebeasttt
It was all smoke before the layoffs. Now something might actually get done over there besides a zombie game with 15 year old graphics.

In defense of H1Z1 the graphics are superb, it's the animations that leave a lot to be desired.

Originally posted by Foomerang

I know it's a small thing and probably not many people care. But it has always bothered me. Selling cosmetic items in a cash shop is generally seen as an acceptable practice. And yet that has allowed for a subtle but steady shift away from the immersive virtual worlds I miss so dearly these days.

Cosmetic items: clothing, mounts, pets, titles, auras etc. These used to be part of the game itself. Part of the lore. Perhaps a side quest somewhere. Or tied into a crafting system.

But they are not anymore. They are in a store. And the devs get a pat on the back because at least they aren't selling combat buffs.

I guess I just don't belong in this new style of mmorpg. Even my mmo of choice does it. Best I can do is try to ignore it. My preferred play style is becoming a niche of a niche of a niche lol. Oh well. Nothing lasts forever

As opposed to paying a Subscription when 99% of the money you speant on the sub does not go toward the development of the game?  no thanks, I'll stick with the superior, more robust, more rewarding F2P business model.  Subscription's where a product of the mid 90's when Internet was in in its infancy and server hosting fees were astronomical.  This isn't the case any more and 99% of gaming realizes it hence Subscriptions are such a small sub set of gaming that it is almost infinitely non existent.

PvE Sandbox
LFGame « General Discussion
2/13/15 2:31:37 AM
Everquest Next is our only shot a pure PvE sandbox and we need to be vocal about making sure it gets finished.  There is a huge gap in styles within this genre and there hasn't been a pure PvE sandbox made since Asheron's Call and its about DAMN time developers take heed of this missing style.  Project Gorgon is another alternative but it is so early in development and just recently got greenlit that it's going to take a few years before it comes to fruition so keep plugging away for EQN, regardless of its payment model, it's combat system, and it's art style cause at the end of the freaking day none of those define what or how a PvE sandbox game is let alone influence how it should be created.

PvP, Crafting centric Sandbox.  Games like Crowfall are a dime a dozen and have historically proven to be bad games.


Nuff said!

Originally posted by koboldfodder
EQN will be cancelled, just a matter of making the announcement.

Sadly I think you might be right and even though I haven't played an MMO for more then a month for going on 3 1/2 years now I will still hold out hope as I strongly feel EQN was and is the only game that caters to my style to a TEE.

Originally posted by Stizzled
Originally posted by 13lake
With how fast revenue and profits are dropping, they might not even bother going f2p.

I'm willing to bet that if they switched to F2P and put stuff in the shop that people actually want to buy (as opposed to just forcing them to repeatedly pay for access to the server) that they'd see their profits double, or even triple, rather rapidly. But whatever, subs are clearly the best model for MMOs as ESO and WS continue to prove.

Truer words have never been typed.  Glad to see a fellow believer in the F2P/B2P business model over the outdated and archaic Sub model on these forums.

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