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All Posts by azzamasin

All Posts by azzamasin

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Originally posted by Caldrin

I really like what WOE have been doing recently.. PS2 is a great game even if it is f2p that has not made it less fun...

I am also tesing Landmark and they are donig great work with the engine and this will be used in EQ:N. I also like the features they have talked about for EQ:N...

no no I do not want Everquest 3 as that would end up being yet another themepark clone and we have a million of those to choose from already and none are better than wow so whats the point.



Not only would it be a Themepark clone but it would feature ideals and systems not seen in 15 years of MMO gaming.  Systems that kept this genre in the smallest niche market audience for 5 years.  It wasn't until WoW came along that revolutionized the genre and gave it more appeal which caused the genre to grow.  I don't like WoW anymore because I'm tired of that sort of leveling gameplay but I do like what it did for the genre.  Namely removed Spawn Camping and Forced grouping.  2 Ideals that I think were the most stupidest things ever. 


No what we need is a new revolutionary ideal in the genre, which I think if SOE can pull off with EQN might be the trick.

Originally posted by Redik23

"I disagree with everything you posted so much that my disagree meter is pegged out.  I'm happy your want something like that in a VIDEO GAME but even the oldest of hardcore players such as myself got started in this genre with Asheron's Call....thankfully so I might add.  It was these reasons you posted in this post is the reason why back in 1999 and my friends at my local Hobby/Magic shop were starting to get into the whole PC/MMO genre immediately ruled out EQ and went with the more sane and promising Asheron's Call. 

Good luck on your journey for a game like you want, but let it be known if a game is ever made to suit your tastes then it will have the smallest population of any MMO on the market.  Who knows, maybe one of these days an Indie developer might take up your cause."




...You mean a MMO that forces people to interact?

...You mean a MMO that rewards the people who dedicate more time and effort? mean a MMO that actually requires thought and skill? mean a MMO that doesn't let one single person win the game by himself / herself?


Desiring those things in a MMO now-a-days puts me in the "Smallest Market of any MMO on the market?"



....did I read that right?


And I didn't know people who played Asherons Call were "the oldest of hardcore players such as myself" --

I believe Everquest; post kunark release & pre-Luclin release (Which was pretty much where I was directing my design ideas from) -- Had more people on one SERVER than AC had in its entirety (I realize that is an exaggeration)... but still.. how does being an Asherons Call player make you an expert on Gaming Experience and Longevity...  I'm pretty sure there are STILL servers with EQ on them.. and they are rocking what.. 25 expansions?   And there is an entire sub-surface EQ gaming mecca (EQEmulator) going on.  I don't see that for AC.  So how, exactly, am I a minority?


Thanks for your input and design suggestions, though. 





I never said AC was more successful but I did say that AC was extremely different from EQ and that is why many people played it over EQ.  The early years of MMO's were terrible IMO.  It catered to a small niche market and AC was so different that it featured a few ideals that made MMO's not seen as horrible.  Such as ease of soloing, Exploration centric.  Questing with emphasis on rewards and difficulty with depth.  I will never ever play an EQ type of game that FORCED grouping, and catered to people with MORE time then me.  I play games because their fun and count me lucky that the modern MMO has realized that most of the features that EQ instilled which I hated have been left out.  And yes desiring those things does put you into the smallest market because no MMO at least no Triple-A MMO will ever run that hardcore EQ mentality content again.  Might I suggest you look into McQuaids new Pantheon game.  I'm sure that indie development is right up your ally. 

Originally posted by MaximusScrotumus

Well I did some reading on the Neverwinter boards and found this post:

"This game, like most mmo these days, are not about "fun" they are all about doing chores and mind-numbing farming.

logging every day to do something meaningless and somehow still keep doing it in hope for some "fun" later... just one thing... the fun may never come. unless you play pvp and actually like the pvp on this game, there is little do be done here, sadly. after you leveled, geared and did all the dungeons you can only keep doing your senseless grind till you bore to death or move on to another game.

Edit: That's MY opinion of the current state of the game right now, also if you are new player, you can only try to compete by putting a crapton of money in the game. there is nothing a new player can do to achieve the same power as any of the older players before all these changes crippled the non paying players."


Can anyone with experience confirm or deny?

This is the kind of thing I'm trying to avoid before investing too much time into it, particularly the last bit.

The grind is something that your going to experience in any game that has an endgame.  The thing with Neverwinter is the grind is really fun.  IMO it has the best combat in the genre.  Or you can skip it altogether if you're not interested in endgame activities because the player Foundry is insanely fun and addicting and content is non stop.  Just don't expect to get gear out of it.  It is more of a content only activity with no rewards other then the enjoyment of experiencing new and exciting stuff every day.  With that being said, the dungeons are a blast and to me do not feel grindy whatsoever.

Originally posted by Redik23
This is what bothers me.  They started out making EQ3 in the veign of World of Warcraft.  I'm really tired of people saying all the MMO's of the past 10 years are EQ based, because that is very very loosely true.  The only thing that the original EQ has in common with modern themepark MMO is that it was primarily Player vs Enemy.  EQ had no instancing, no quest based leveling, no "you are the one saviour of the entire world" BS storyline.   EQ was very much a PVE sandbox.  You started a character and then did what you want.  Did you want to go solo skeletons? go kill skeletons.  Did you wanna get a group together and try to dungeon crawl your way to Emperor Crushbone?  Do that.  Once you gained some levels you could get together and kill some dragons, or whatever.

Modern MMO's are glorified single player games and Dave Georgeson was right that they need to move away from that model.  Where he was wrong (and most of the people who werent there in the beginning days of MMOs) is assuming that EVERYTHING from EQ was bad.

In my opinion the main ingredient missing from MMO's is the Multiplayer part of it.  And please nobody pull the BS card that just because you're on a server with other people its Multiplayer.  Thats just being pedantic.

The lack of defined classes and class interdependency is what has ruined any aspect of a community and any sense of pride or individuality in your character.

Humans gain satisfaction from having a purpose in life.  Not from being a jack of all trades.  Look at any walk of life and the people who are happiest are the ones who have found their course in life and are pursuing that.

That doesnt change in MMO's.

Also, something obtained easily has no worth.

(I quoted this for a purpose.. give me a second)

Points and Observations from this thread:

So,  I came to this website today for the first time.  I'm a former EQ player (2000 - 2005) coming back to the realm of MMO's looking for something to play.  Naturally I look for an EQ-esque game because that's what I liked.. (I mean, I dedicated 5 years to it) --  EQ:N isn't out, so I looked at some other stuff.  First, TSO.. I played Morrowind and Skyrim, they were fun single player games..  maybe give TSO a chance..  Until I youtubed gameplay of a max level character beating the final boss, BY HIMSELF.. a week after the game came out.   What?!  An MMO you can BEAT by yourself?  Are you serious?  If you want to play a game by yourself..  why are you playing an MMO?  And why do you want to play.. or pay.. for  a game you can win in one week?  

    Section for people making excuses:

                "He probably is a hardcore grinder, played 24 hours a day for the week.. which is why he's max level"

                              -There were hundreds of these youtube videos

                                                (And they weren't from beta, they were from live)

                "Some people have other obligations and can't grind 8 hours a day to be in an "uber" guild, they want to play casually, and still get to endgame content"  

                               -No game-design or mechanic should put casual gamers on par with hardcore gamers...   You mean to tell me that if I work a job casually, I should be rewarded the same as the person who works 60 hours a week?  That's inane.  If you want a casual game play experience, buy a WiiU -   I think it's arrogant of people to expect more for less... in any situation.  If you have a full-time job because you need to pay the bills.. guess what... you have to miss out on other stuff.  If i work a part-time job and live with roomates and can spend more time playing video games...  I'm choosing to miss out on stuff as well.. (Building equity in a house, etc)


The same idea goes for these Multi-class or Hybrid class systems...   Why are you people playing MMO's if you want to do everything by yourself?  Play Skyrim.  I hate the idea of a "Battle Mage" or some stupid hybrid of a Silk Armor wearing class able to take blows..  Why implement a group / guild system in a game if there are 500,000 battle mages running around nuking and tanking everything to death?   "I can nuke/tank and heal, and my char never dies! I must be the best gamer on the planet!"   Wrong.  The best gamers on the planet were the people killing Avatar of War in ONLY Kunark/Velious gear with under 50 people in their raid.  Back when there was no raid function, or "Alternate Abilities".  Remember when you wiped.. you were spending 2 hours CRing.. not waiting for a Graveyard or some other "Convenience" that was implemented because people couldn't hack it.


Also, a special note to the guy who said "Taunt" was the worst idea ever...  then proceeded to explain why taunt was needed in a group / guild based system...   I'm pretty sure you said.. if you are a meatshield, you just need to be able to take blows....


How am I supposed to "take blows.." if some rogue is doing 3x my damage output?  Without a taunt?  (And proc Rage/Hate = taunt, btw)  How "real" is a game where the Raid boss isn't intuitive enough to attack the person he "Hates" most...  (Usually the person hitting him the hardest, unless someone else is TAUNTING him...)


Anyway, back to my point..   Whoever wrote this piece I quoted (Sorry, I forgot your name) -- You are a genius.  I've been trying to make this point for years.  EQ died when Luclin came out.  Period.  Actually, more specifically.. when the BAZAAR came out.  You went from having to associate with your entire server (North Freeport /auction /ooc to buy/sell)  To being able to set up a market bot and AFK.  The nexus/PoK (I know PoK wasn't luclin)  --didn't help.  Because you no longer needed to get "rides" from helpful Druids or Wizards.   You went from having to know your entire server to just having to talk to your 40 or 50 guild mates and setting up your market Bot at night. 

Unfortunately that trend caught on and more massive "multiplayer" online games continued it...

Multiplayer isn't being on a server with 1,000 people.. Multiplayer is INTERACTING with 1,000 people.


Also, to add on to your point...  Instances killed multiplayer, as well.  People having to spawn camp, and learn spawn timers was what turned good guilds into GREAT guilds.  If your guild could mobilize faster than the other guild.. you got the kill.  It also made for great rivalries.  What fun is watching the Yankees take batting practice?   I'm pretty sure you all would rather watch them play the Red Sox.  So why eliminate rivalries on EQ?


I think there is a space for Instances, though.  Don't get me wrong.  I think instancing encounters that reward things like Augments and Rare tradeskill items would be a good idea.   Because you and your guild / group could farm them at your leisure.  If another guild on the server can get to "X" boss faster than you... you shouldn't be SOL on raiding.. but you shouldn't get "X" bosses loot. 

And the early/mid game level grind could be a little easier...  I will give a little on that.  I played through some project99 the last few months, and spent 8 hours getting from lvl 10 to 11.  That was painful.  I think instead of having a "Tutorial" and some stupid "Loot 10 snake feet" quests..  Have a legit quest-set that teaches people how to do stuff, yields some decent starting items (Choice of: Tradeskill kit, Tank/Mage/Priest/Chain/Leather armor peices, Weapon)  and good XP.  Get people into the 20's or so quick then let them grind from there.


I don't want EQ:N to be Everquest from 1999.  But I sure as hell don't want it to be a single player game where the only purpose other people have on the server is to Troll and Lag me.

Sorry for the lofty expectations. 



I disagree with everything you posted so much that my disagree meter is pegged out.  I'm happy your want something like that in a VIDEO GAME but even the oldest of hardcore players such as myself got started in this genre with Asheron's Call....thankfully so I might add.  It was these reasons you posted in this post is the reason why back in 1999 and my friends at my local Hobby/Magic shop were starting to get into the whole PC/MMO genre immediately ruled out EQ and went with the more sane and promising Asheron's Call. 

Good luck on your journey for a game like you want, but let it be known if a game is ever made to suit your tastes then it will have the smallest population of any MMO on the market.  Who knows, maybe one of these days an Indie developer might take up your cause.

Originally posted by delete5230

First I'll say, I don't know much about this MMO.  But the little I do, I don't like it at all.  I may be slightly off track on my negatives listed below.  But everything about this game turns me off.

If you Don't know much about the game and there's been very little information released, don't you think you're a bit premature on your doom and gloom?


- Fully destructible world, I know players are screaming for a change, but this isn't it !

Within context of what we know about the game, then yes it is something many have been clammoring for

- F2P turns me right off, leave it to SOE to pull this crap.

SOE is a F2P studio now, and F2P is the future of the genre.

- Few abilities on your bar ?.....I hate this in the more recent mmo's.....Maybe it's just me, but I like versatility in both talent builds and like to choose and be in control of how I play......I like having something to look forward to, More abilities, not just some minor enhancements.  

As opposed to having umpteen rows of hotbar abilities with tens of identical mediocre abilities that offer little to no true diversity.  ALso lest ye forget, original EQ only used 1 hotbar of 8 abilities too.

- What's so bad about class roles ? It works and it will always work, it has nothing to do with old style.

I see your little knowledge of the game has come to the forfront here.  As EQN is not getting rid of Class Roles, only the reliance on the Holy Trinity.  In an age of smart AI having a front line dude in plate with a shield who screams at mobs runs counterintuitive to the design philosophy of the game.  Unlike GW2, NPC AI will be much smarter.

- The marketing.  Now I know developers like to give long notice about there product. But I don't think SOE even knows much about what they will eventually give us.


I would like to see a real remake of EQ2. Open world and non instanced, Very cool abilities, something never thought of yet. Vanguard had done this, they were innovative, it's just that it ran like dog poo !.....When I first found out about EQ Next, I figured great !....Until I started reading about it.

Vanguard was horrible even without all the bugs.  The combat was shallow and the world was uninspiring.

If you want EQ3 then play one of the myriad of predecessors that are plaguing this genre.  From WoW to Wildstar. from LOTRO to ESO.  All have their vision of the EQ stylization. 


How about we let them design the game first before we past judgement.

I'd vote GW2 or Neverwinter
Originally posted by Myrdynn
Originally posted by azzamasin


Originally posted by Myrdynn the fact that questing and AC are mentioned together is the reason I havent returned  


Check out That is typical of an AC quest and not the bullshit kill 10 rats as seen in other MMO's.

you playing Azz, would be nice to have a patron again, I pass up fat EXP.  That quest got me intrigued.  Might just start from scratch, wouldnt even know my original login


Not yet, I plan on returning sometime soon.  Right now busy with Hearthstone, Diablo 3 and ArcheAge alpha.

Originally posted by sludgebeard
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
Originally posted by DMKano

OP - SoE is not going to spend 100mil to recreate something that has less than 100-200k players even interested in, the active playerbase after a month would most likely be around 50k players.

Expensive MMO projects need a huge playerbase.

Can't compare that to a small budge game.

to be honest....f8ck sony.

No longer are the days where millions of players are needed to fund a game we like.

extreemly small teams (like 10 or less developers) are creating games in mass that people want. Such small budget games do not need millions of players to cover the cost.


Its a great day for gaming, a bad day for large gaming companies

+1, Bravo, CHEERS!


Seriously this is the point, big companys are starting to be overshadowed by the little guys. If Divinty Devs can make a game based off a Turn-Based RPG genre that was popular in 90-fucking-5, there is no reason we can see Classic MMO gaming make the rise once more. 


Leave out the fact Im in love with the idea of a modern EQ and just think of making a game Liken to that, and you have a perfect niche game with a proven fanbase. 


And please, dont cite Pantheon as an excuse to why this wouldnt work out. Panth is headed by Brad Mcquaid, who since Vanguard has had a bullseye on his back and a cloud over his head to the gaming world. Some sad individuals will never let that man rest *cough ReROLLED cough*.


If there was a game being made like classic EQ right now it would sell, it would turn a profit, and the fact that SOE doesnt realize that further shows their lack of knowledge about their fanbase, old and new.

Modern EQ is WoW and all the clones that has proliferated over the last 8 years.


NO THANKS.  make a new game, innovate and invent new designs or at least change the whole EQ concept.  Give me Asheron's Call 2.0 or UO 2.0 any day of the week.

I purchased the game and have only played it for 15 mins or so.  Not a fan of Turn Based combat but other then that it is well made.  I plan on playing it more when I finish my 3rd season of grinding Legend in Hearthstone.
Originally posted by Scypheroth
GOOD STUFF! maybe he can find a diffrent company n make a vanilla wow like game again...modern wow is compleat shit

Disagree.  Vanilla WoW is what contributed to shitty games we have now.  We need someone to go back to UO/AC/EQ levels of diversity.

Originally posted by Myrdynn the fact that questing and AC are mentioned together is the reason I havent returned  

Check out That is typical of an AC quest and not the bullshit kill 10 rats as seen in other MMO's.

Originally posted by PAL-18
Originally posted by bezadoThe leveling curve is super fast and easy.

Why god,whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!


Don't listen to him.  The leveling curve to about 175 will take about a month but those last 100 levels will take someone hardcore (without UCM Botting) about 6 months.

Originally posted by tiglie

Or even name a single Sandbox element it contains.  

First let me preface and say I"m in alpha, have been playing daily, and thoroughly enjoy the game for what it is....a large world battle arena to fight others for the sake of fighting.  But this will run it's course very very soon.  So I turn to the old arguement everyone falls back on when you bring up the glaring lack of content or "sandbox" tools if you will on the general forums.

"Archeage is a sandbox, if you need someone to hold your hand go back to WoW"

Ok, so I challenge you to name the sandbox elements in Archeage to drive player content.  And to cross the big two right off the list, DAoC had essentially identical housing and custumizations...and noone would call it a sandbox.  And the nothern continent mess of unimplemented idea is either a really shitty version of DAoC frontiers, or a really really really shitty version of territory control in Shadowbane by tree claiming.

So i will await your answers and just say that after the fun of having open PKing as an option wears off, it becomes very clear why this game is a barren wasteland in both RU and KR.


  1. Crafting is detailed
  2. Trade Routes
  3. Ship building
  4. Housing
  5. Piracy
  6. World PvP
  7. Factions aren't locked
  8. Zones are seamless and explorable friendly
  9. Open ended Class systems
  10. Combo's and group interactivity
Think that pretty much shoots your argument down.  But for the record Jake Song said AA is a Sandpark.  It has many features that one would say are sandbox.  The only really Themepark elements I see are the questing and dungeons.  But those are optional.
Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

And the one which is supposedly on death bed for years now according to the members of this very site and is unable to generate interest in public anymore.

Never ever take the word of the Vocal Minority with anything other then a grain of salt.  While I am one of those who detests Themepark games, I am not oblivious to the fact it is the biggest money maker and most productive MMO genre out there.  Like the Massively article that detailed LOTRO's Raid Community as being the vocal minority, the general feeling is that Themepark is the only game a AAA studio will undertake for the foreseeable future.  The ramblings of WoW's death has been greatly exaggerated. 

Can't wait for Naxx!  Finally see a shift in the Meta.
Originally posted by Boneserino

Who the hell is Ryan Getchell??


Oooh he played Ultima Online!    His qualifications are without  question of great repute!


It must be so!           ESO is dead!

He also runs an ESO fansite and Podcast over at TesoElite. He is hardly the epitome of fair and balanced coverage of the game.

ESO is a game that hasn’t truly been done before, it’s a game that is designed around its leveling experience, and those who rushed through the content to get to level cap and “End Game” essentially skipped

I can't help but feel you should backtrack on this statement. I personally feel that ESO is exactly like every MMO released over the last 7-8 years. Reliance on story, easy leveling, Solo-progression, lack of endgame.

If you create a game that takes less then a month (more like 1-2 weeks) to reach level cap then by Zod's mighty light you better have some endgame. If you want to create this illusion that endgame is just a means to an end and that the leveling progression is the ultimate experience, then you better make it take a while. Recreate the epic journey of a D&D campaign and create an experience that will take months and months and months to finish for even the hardest of hardcore.


As for the grandiose graphical fidelity you espouse, I'd buy the argument if the armor weren;t part of your character's skin, or appeared that.  But because the armor all looks painted on it gives this half-baked cheap looking feel from it.  As for the rest of the graphics, I find GW2 10x the quality and aesthetically pleasing of the 2.  As far as that goes, I also feel that games such as The Secret World and Neverwinter to be more graphically superior to ESO.

Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Mine is that EQN will be to twitch heavy. Action combat is flooding the MMO space. Adding dodge is fine but the twitch side of things can get so bad it feels more like playing a FPS over a MMO. 

It's already going to be exactly what you don't want.  Was said that at last year's SOE Live that the combat was going to be fast paced, action orientated.


With that said, I think it's a perfect move and I believe all MMO's should go this route.  If I want to play a stand still and trade blows, RNG roll for to-hit and to-miss, I'd play a freaking RTS.  I think an RPG should be more about action then your typical Real Time Strategy game.

Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by ThumbtackJ
Originally posted by Dreamo84
Actually, with the foundry Neverwinter is one MMORPG where you NEVER have to do the same content twice. You can very much level up entirely doing user created content.

And some of it is actually quite good. Rivaling the studio created content I'd say.

This game has great UCG. I do think it can keep the game from feeling the same. With that said you still kind of "need" or will want to run at least the story campaign to unlock areas and such. Also the reward system for foundry quests needs to be improved. Foundry quests shouldn't be all about rewards, but they need something to make the looting more fun.

This was my biggest issue with the Foundry, my 2nd biggest issue was you couldn't design boss fights.

Well I'll definitely be going back to Neverwinter after this announcement.  Scourge Warlock is going to be hella fun to play.
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