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All Posts by azzamasin

All Posts by azzamasin

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2944 posts found

Voted ...


If I would of bought the game (Canceled my preorder) It would of been through Gamestop.  I never buy Digital games unless it's through Steam.  Having the hard box feels more meaningful.  I suspect most people buy hard copies of games and only a small minority buy Digital editions.  This has always been the case with MMO's.  Look back at the GW2 fiasco when everyone was saying that game didn't sell well.  However it led Amazon sales for a very long time.  You will not see that is the case with ESO.  I suspect that April 5th trends release is pretty telling and damning for Zenimax.

Originally posted by SpottyGekko

Oh noes, some people on teh interwebz says that ESO will not survive !


Even though I'm really enjoying the game, I should stop playing immediately because the game is going to die... at some unspecified time in the future...


Not going to die, most MMO's don't do that.  But it does look painfully obvious they will not be able to sustain their workforce and recoup the development costs on such meager numbers.  A transition to F2P is the next solution and if anything this looks like it will be much sooner then later.

Disagree with all 3 of your points.


1. Lack of Racial Identities might not mean much to you but from a DAoC Vet, looking over and knowing my enemy is the same race takes all the immersion out of faction pride for me.


2. It's not too easy because you are not required to solo.  It's too asy because it takes no time at all to reach max level.  MAX LEVEL should never be something you can get within a games first month.  IMO it should take at a minimum of 3-6 months but I wouldn't be adverse to it taking a year or longer.  Slow methodical grinding is what kept me playing games way back when.  All the new MMO's are so concerned with endgame they never realize the journey is the most fun part.


3. Lack of any meaningful trading/Bartering system in an auction house does ruin trade because the majority of players will skip trading and seek to play via self found.  I've seen it in Path of Exile and ESO is no different.  If you have an ability to trade there must be an Auction House to facilitate the economy and free exchange of goods.

Path of Exile, Diablo 3 and Hearthstone.  Everquest Next is the be-all, end-all for me as far as this genre goes.
Originally posted by Senadina
Yeah, only 1 AAA MMO in the bunch. For the first time, I am worried about the future of this genre that I love.

Two things to mention about your post:


First, the last 8 years of failed WoW clones and cheap knock-offs didn;t give you a guess as to the future?


Secondly, Everyone is making MOBA's because they are cheap, are MMO like (it's a stretch but the MMO PvP crowd is eating the genre up) and serve the Me-Now and Microwave ready generation.


The day's of Triple-A Innovative MMO's have been over since the dawn of the mega-hit WoW.  Back before then every single MMO was new, fresh and innovative.  From UO to EQ, from Asheron;s Call to DAoC and from SWG to City of Heroes.

Sadly none of those games come close to being on my radar and none of them offer me what I want out an MMO.  And for the love of god quit it with the MOBA's.  Stupid genre that is setting back MMO's by the decade.

Many factors go into why ESO is nothing like DAoC.  These include:

  1. No Darkness Falls Dungeon
  2. Lack of Server identities
  3. Homogenous classes
  4. Racial pride due to pre-release races being homogenous
  5. Class diversity
  6. speed and ease in leveling up
  7. lack of territorial reasons to fight
Originally posted by Nitth


Originally posted by Tsumoro
Okay, you got me. "Technically" Dark Souls is not an MMO, however it does so many things right by MMO standards that even current and upcoming MMO's fail to grasp. Allow me to break it down. 



The World - With an RPG (to which many MMO's are) if you do not have a world that people cannot get invested into, then all you have is a HUB where people mindlessly push forward until boredom sets in. Some games have good worlds, some have bad. World of Warcraft for example had 3 games worth (not including xpacs) of lore to draw upon to create a rich world and interesting characters for people to invest into. 

Dark Souls, a bit different has a rich world, almost forgotten by time itself and filled with the Hollows of past men. The lore is there, but it is in pieces, allowing you to interact with it, to discover the world almost as if it was a character itself. You put together the information, you draw a conclusion and their is enough lore and content to draw from to fill up an Agatha Christie Novel as your investigating mind begins to border on the Poirot. 


Questing - I am not sure where developers got this idea that as many quests as possible makes for a much more interesting game. Having interesting quests do that. So many games in the genre still rely on the 'fetch' and 'deliver' style of questing and for the most part they are obscure and in no way reflect your character, or what your character would do. Why would I carry a pint of milk to an NPC thats 5ft away. I am an adventurer! Not a bloody milk man!

In Dark Souls, quests are subtle, you partake or you don't. Getting involved with quests OR not getting involved with quests help shape the world and the characters. They change, they live and breath based on your interactions and what you are willing to do for them and for yourself. You are alone, in a desolate place, do you band together and help these other travelers to help yourself, do you simply ignore them and allow their journeys to go their seperate ways, or do you flat out kill them to prevent them from taking the glory you desire. 

Quests are optional in Dark Souls, the world is there and what you gleam from its skirts its down to you. 


Community - In MMO's as of late, I have now come accustomed to expect (for the most part) of them being solo or single player experiences. You are but a glorified NPC with better AI to other players, there to serve only their need of progression. There is no interaction, no talking what-so-ever and this even continues to the end game. Having replayed WoW not long ago, from vanilla to MoP I spoke to perhaps one person, and that was a dwarf trying to cyber with me on the tram. 

In Dark Souls, you do not speak. But, the communication is deeper, richer almost. You make gestures, you use your actions to give direction. You are polite, you bow, you thank. In PvP a gentleman code exists where people bow to one another, be you invader or visa versa. These are all actions and communications not enforced by the game, but things that have developed and evolved over the games life. People understand that they are brothers and sisters in arms, they wish to help, they wish to kill you. 

the World is littered with messages, guiding you, or tricking you about secrets and strategies in the area you are in. Ghosts of the fallen can be seen to help educate, to give you a better understanding of the upcoming battle. Without a single word being spoken, I have garnered more communication and social interaction than I have in a long time from MMO's.

Also, remember when people used to band together and talk about the game and work out its secrets? Well, in MMO's everything is now spelled out to you. Nothing there for you to discover, just a list of things to check off on your mighty list. Dark Souls however has entire communities of people, talking about hidden tactics, boss strats, NPC information, Lore etc etc.


Difficulty - Why are games that are difficult considered bad form or mechanics by developers and other players. It really isn't. The only thing bad about difficulty is if the reward does not meet the punishment or if the punishment is administered unfairly.

In Dark Souls when you die, you understand its your fault. You know you did something wrong, you rushed in, you didn't observe, you didn't react to the world and the information it screams out to you.  When you die you are eager to get back into it, you know the thrill of overcoming the difficulty which you fully understand is a manageable difficulty is waiting for you, the excitement the progression. It is all a journey and you know within yourself that what awaits at the end is 'Praise the Sun'. 


Anyhow, that's enough for me. But, I just thought it worth mentioning. That with the market today as it is, its kinda killing the genre. It is all hamburgers to be consumed, whereas before it used to be like taking a date out for dinner. You would order, chat and have some fun, you would get hungry, the anticipation for the food coming. It would look wonderful and you ate together making it a social experience. 


In short NO.

Your still designing for a single player rpg shoehorned into an mmorpg.

MMorpgs should excel as meaningful social interactions and player interdependency.

No only EQ clones should be designed that way.  Plenty of other design decisions are available and I prefer the Open World, Exploration centric model that Asheron's Call designed.  An MMO designed back in the mid 90's and released in 1999 that didn't rely on the "Forced-Group" or player-interdependency mentality to progress that EQ and WoW is synonymous with. 


The OP likes a Dark Souls centric MMO.  And that is perfectly acceptable to him and nothing wrong with it.  Many people are not rewarded or care about the social dynamics of a game but still prefer to have an online persistent world inhabited by other real life people to give a much greater feeling of immersion.

Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by azzamasin

Sorry but this post is 100% of what is wrong with today's modern MMO.


Guy gets upset because 2 weeks after release the majority of gamers aren't participating in endgame activities.

Cyrodil is not a end-game exclusive feature, it's available from level 10 forward everyone who goes there is boasted to 50. Granted many seem to be waiting til they actually hit 50, it's still surprising if there's not a lot of action going on.

Most people will PvP once they get to max level.  To do so earlier, even if able to is considered noobish.  Hence the majority will wait till max level and seeing as this game is only 2-3 weeks old.  Most people aren't going to be max level so soon.  And in turn is the reason why the PvP population isn't what it will be given a bit of time.  If the game manages to keep players hooked for that long is another question for another topic.

Originally posted by greene75
Originally posted by azzamasin

Sorry but this post is 100% of what is wrong with today's modern MMO.


Guy gets upset because 2 weeks after release the majority of gamers aren't participating in endgame activities.

[mod edit]

[mod edit]  You asked a question and I delivered a courteous response on why I think this is wrong.  I hate to bring up the "in my day" speech but in my day folks didn't get to max level in 2 weeks.  It took them at minimum 2-3 months.  Hence this "Me-Now" & "Microwave-Ready" generation has spoiled kids and in turn ruined MMO's for the most part.

Sorry but this post is 100% of what is wrong with today's modern MMO.


Guy gets upset because 2 weeks after release the majority of gamers aren't participating in endgame activities.

I haven't been invested in an MMO for longer then a few months since I quit WoW back a few years ago.  Right After they released Cataclysm when I realized how dumbed down the game was becoming.


In that time I've played TSW, GW2, Neverwinter, SWTOR, Dragon's Prophet, Rift and Tera.  All these games lack the one thing I want out of an MMO.  Longevity.  Basically they are either WoW clones (using the EQ endgame model) Are PvP centric, or have nothing to do once you've acquired a set of gear. 


None of them offer me what I want out of a MMO, which is a return to Old School open world sandbox elements.  In the meantime I am content with games like Hearthstone, Diablo 3, Path of Exile and some single player games I've missed out over the past 14 years.

Welcome to why most of us quit.

You can have vertical scaling and progression while still keeping the world open and seamless and exploration centric.  See Asheron's Call to see how this is done.  Keep weaker and more easily killable mobs near settlements and towns and create one super huge area way the f**k out in sticks with little to no NPC interactivity. 


Basically the more you level the further out from town you get.  This is to 100% better then having gated zones which break immersion. 


The other issue is you need to slow the leveling way down, create a super huge world and don't implement artificial stumbling blocks for the players.  I'm not saying don't fix exploits but if someone wants to spend a few hours kiting a boss around or perching atop a rocky outcrop where the melee mobs can't reach then by all means let them.  These were the hallmark on why Asheron's Call was and is light years above any MMO ever released. 

Originally posted by amber-r

What do you think of these tactics used in the mmo field? most notably in pay to play titles.  The example I have is the demand for payment of a monthly sub or in-game consequences will follow.  On FFXIV they are bringing in plans that if you don't pay your subscription (and as such unable to log-on) meaning you are not active for more than 35 days they will completely destroy very valuable in-game assets.  Heavy punishment for taking a break or stopping payment for whatever reason.  To me this sounded like "pay us or we break your car" because that's basically the message they are giving out.


This was brought up to me by my sister, who still plays FFXIV.  Guild housing on that game is something that requires vast sums of in-game currency, many, many months of work by multiple people to obtain.  They are planning to bring in a system where, if you take a break and stop your subscription for more than 35 days they simply destroy that housing completely and offer nothing back from that destruction.  This is guild housing, however in a game where many players created small groups or family guilds to buy these houses or where many in the guild have simply now quit or are on breaks leaving on a small number of actives remaining this basically blackmails the few remaining players to continue their subscription (even if they plan to not play for a while) or lose a very valuable in-game asset.  Basically put, "pay your monthy sub fast or we destroy your house".  To me this comes off as very questionable tactics, I know these games need to try to force players to retain their subscription but is this really a valid tactic to be used?  especially with such a short time frame of destruction of 35 days?


What's next, don't take a break from our game or we will delete your character in 35 days?  Every month you're inactive we take a level away?  One company getting away with tactics like this will spread if they are deemed successful.  I took a break for over 4 months from Guild Wars 2, I recently went back and everything was just as I left it, nobody destroyed anything because I stopped spending money in the cash shop.  Same applies to WoW where I haven't played for over a year, everything is just as when I left.


I hasten to add that on all the servers none of the housing plots are full, plus it's very easy to add more land space if they want to and they won't offer you anything back upon that destruction to rebuild if it you come back after 35 days either, there is no valid reason for this kind of draconian tactic other than to extort money out of players and blackmail them from taking unpaid breaks from the game of more than 35 days.


What do you all think of mmo companies using tactics like this?

I hate the Subscription model because of these tactics.  They nickel and dime you way more then F2P because you obviously have the choice to pay or not.  Sub games stick in hurdles and other developmental roadblocks that keep you subscribed longer and hence forth PAYING longer.  From limited bag space to Looting options that keep the player always looking for that one drop that never does.

Wishful thinking does not a Bold prediction make. 



F2P within the first year.

If you've never played and are into solo activities and leveling that is fun as hell then by all means get it.  I played for 6 solid years and enjoyed the heck out of.  Unfortunately I grew tired of the linear questing system and am only interested in character progression within a solid exploration centric world. 
This will be exacerbated on May 4th when people have to renew their subscription or most likely cancel.  Especially if their not having fun or burned themselves out within that first month.
Originally posted by gonewild
Experienced mmorpg players never start judging a game from a week of playthrough but after 1 month or more.

I find this to be false!  Been playing MMO's since 1999 and I've always, without fail been able to gauge my interests in a game and its future within the first hours of game play.

Played the beta and forced myself to like it and never did.  May give it a shot when the inevitable F2P transition occurs but until that day happens there wasn't enough Skyrim in the game and too much reliance on WoW/Themepark elements.
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