If you have two bad news to report, it's better to say one, wait a while, and then say the other. People will be eased into it.

1. "They said no vertical progression of gear, but at least look at the stats, the difference is small."

-- A few weeks later --

2. "So the stat difference isn't that small but it's fine because..blah..blah."

Originally posted by Arcondo87

Originally posted by Kuinn

Originally posted by MMOExposed
so first people complain that people stay in cities all the time, but when Blizzard gives you a reason not to go to cities, you also complain? interesting.

 

Yes, people used to stand around cities all day long because the trainers are there. Now that the need of visiting trainers is gone and they are all still standing there, it must be because they are not yet aware of the change. Yes, this must be it.

NOW ppl stand arround in cities all day cuz they dont ever have to leave! With LFG and raidfinder now. Why do you even have to leave? just stay in SW/Org and keep bashing the LFG and LFR till your 90. This game is sooo dummed down its not even funny any more...cant believe how lazy the world has become over the past 6 years...what happen to exploration and traveling.

Maybe the 2012 end of the world is what this world needs to start a new and kill off all these lazy ass generation....

Dumbed down? World of Warcraft's meat is not the leveling, it's the endgame. Complaining that WoW is easy after just leveling is like saying that Big Mac combo you just bought has no calories just because you've only tasted the diet coke that came with it.

Try doing heroic raids, that's where you'll find challenge: a bigger challenge than any other themepark MMO out there. If you don't like raiding, then WoW is not for you, basically.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by halflife25

Originally posted by mmoguy43
I applaud the players finding a way to turn this into a grind. Now they will complain about DE grinds. Rewards > fun huh

What people say on forums about 'optional grind' and reality in game is quite different. People under estimate the amount of grind peple are ready to do for simply looking different. If this doesn't prove it then nothing will.

Yeah, its more of a one-off grind. You still have to grind to get full exotic in one way or another. Karma grind, PvP grind, money grind (for crafted) or Dungeon Grind.

If there was an easy to obtain but ugly set of Exotic gear then people would be less focused on the grind and more focused on doing things they want to do, unfortunately unless you did AC explorable mode repeatedly to level up, chances are it will take you a while to get fully exotic once you are 80.

A full set of crafted exotics armor costs less than 10g, and that's if you don't have guildies who have armorcrafting (or if you don't have it yourself).

Stop exagerating and posting misinformation.

I haven't played GW2 for about 2 weeks now, but back then when I got my full exotic gear with gold it cost me 50g and upwards of 70g with the sigils and runes (with only one weapon set and underwater weapon). Crafting was useless since buying the raw materials and crafting the pieces was actually MORE expensive than buying the finished product. Again, I don't know if things changed since I stopped playing, but that is how it was: a huge grind. 

1. The type of MMO players, that is the vast majority, who want easy content do not frequent sites like this one. That poll is like asking if the world likes tacos but only taking ballots from Mexico.

2. Blizzard did not make WoW exclusively easy. They made it easy to get into, hard to master. Go get World First of the next heroic raid tier, and come back to tell me WoW is all easy. They made WoW's difficulty a choice, easy (LFR), normal, and hard. You choose your difficulty.

3. An exclusively hard MMO will inevitably turn out to be a niche game. The problem is that MMOs are the type of game where people spend a lot of time compared to other genres. That inevitable leads to developers needing to implement repetitive content, like grinding. So if you on top of that make the grind not only tedious, but HARD, then say goodbye to the majority of MMO players.

To make a review about WoW without touching its endgame content, specifically raiding, is like making a review of Big Mac based on the soda you bought with it without giving the burger a bite. The type of players who would play WoW based on its leveling alone are so casual, they don't visit sites like these. Most of them don't even know MoP released (Blizzard has said it in the past). 

WoW's meat is the raiding. There's no other MMO on the market that offers the huge raiding community, challenging heroic encounters, and variety that WoW does. Not even Rift, which is the second closest in my mind. WoW is not easy. Saying so based on leveling alone is like saying that Big Mac combo had no calories at all just because you bought diet coke. There's a reason why a huge "hardcore" community of players exist around WoW's heroic raiding progression, that doesn't exist around, say, GW2's 5 man dungeons. And this expansion is proving to be excellent in terms of that. There's a reason why WoW keeps a steady 10k+ viewers on streaming sites while games like GW2 only has about 500 or less. One word, hardcore progression raiding. 

But then again, I guess that's what we've come to expect from MMORPG.com in terms of WoW, right? After all, there's so many sites exclusively about WoW where people can go, sites like these inevitably tend to focus on other MMOs who don't have such big community. 

GW2 is the type of game more akin to a FPS than an RPG in the sense that there is no progression. Many RPG players love progression, but many don't seem to realize it until they miss it. I personally do, and I also got bored fast with GW2 since it felt like a FPS where, yes, everyone's balanced yet every match ends up feeling empty. 

Fun is in the gamer, not the game. To me fun is progression. To the OP, it's probably the same. There's no need to bash us just because we don't find GW2 fun. 

Originally posted by DrunkWolf

Call of Duty has been doing this for years. its smart because people are to stupid to figure it out.

 

I don't think you people are understanding. CoD games are similar, yes, like many other franchises; but they are not EXACT copies. This is a special case, it's the EXACT same game. 

The bias on that picture comparison is astonishingly evident. Let's ignore the fact GW2 has its UI hidden there. You can make a very minimalistic, yet perfectly functional UI on WoW with the correct AddOns and the patience to customize them; to the point where it becomes even BETTER than GW2's default UI for some people's tastes. Besides, you do have to remember that raid fights in WoW are much more complicated than in GW2, whose dynamic events are zerg-fests with no tactics whatsoever (trust me, I did all cathedral events, none requiered more than "I died, someone rez pls"). 

Contrary to what people believe, you actually need to be more aware of what the boss does in WoW than in GW2. So much so, that players rely on UIs to help them stay aware of the fight's elements. GW2's PvE combat had no real depth, I liked the PvP very much, but PvE had nothing for me. 

A true MMO? Hmm...have you checked out MoP?

(yes, I know I just commited suicide)

The game tries to sell you the idea that you shoulnd't grind, that gear / level doesn't really matter and that the game starts at level 1, not at endgame. But it's not true, you see:

- My damage almost tripled in WvW going from level 79 to 80 with exotics. Gear and level do make a huge difference in WvW. After experiencing it that way, I almost feel useless when entering with my low level alts. In the top tier of servers, most are 80 now. If you enter there as level 25, you'll get demolished.

- You kill faster and easier with gear in the open world, even when downscaled. At level 70, I had average gear and when downscaled, sure enogh, mobs died faster than when I had the zone's level; however, when I got to 80 and geared myself, then went back to that downscaled zone, mobs died almost twice as fast. 

- Dungeons become easier. I played the same dungeon both when I had average gear and then at 80 with exotics, there IS a difference. 

- SPvP is truly the only aspect of the game where gear / level doesn't make you more powerful, for obvious reasons. 

Now I'm actually thankful that there's some kind of carrot on a stick. I certainly enjoy progression, it's why I play RPGs and not FPS (although even FPS nowadays implement some form of progression). But even though there IS a reason to progress, the game tries to deny it implementing ridiculous mechanics. You can't farm a zone for too long, yet if you want to craft your gear by yourself you must do so. You can't grind dungeons for long, yet if you want the gear rewards you must do so. You can't grind DE's for long, yet if you want the karma gear you must do so. The game is bascially telling you: "Hey, you want to progress? Sure, just do this dungeon 80 times. But oh, wait, don't." Right now, if you hit 80 and want a max stat gear set, you must do either:

- Make 40-60 gold and buy it. This is a huge gold grind, coupled with teleportation / repair costs.

- Run a dungeon 80 times. Sure, dungeons are fun the first 4-5 times or so. But when you realize you need at least 8 runs for ONE piece of gear, the whole thing goes from "Hmm, this is fun." to "PLEASE MAKE IT STOP!". 

- Do about 720 DEs. Yes, 720*320 ~= 250,000 karma that you need. 

BUT WAIT, you want to gear yourself according to Precision/Power/Crit to maximize your specific Thief build? Then no, I don't care how much you like DEs, you have to farm gold or dungeons. Oh, what's that, you want to try a Condition damage build now with that Thief of yours? Sure, just grind for ANOTHER gear set again! The current endgame in GW2 is a bigger grind than raiding two times a week ever was. The concept that "you don't need to grind" is nullified by the fact that you DO become more powerful with gear. Then factor in alts, or...if you're brave...legendaries (which, for example, require 2,000,000 karma besides other things). It's a grim outlook indeed. But, ahhh, here's the catch: 

You can take a level 1 character all the way to 80 and get full exotics for the low price of $200.00. That's right, you can skip all the game's leveling content, and get a max stat gear set for real money! What a deal! If that's not pay to win, I don't know what is. I really like GW2's leveling, but it's endgame feels to be in the stone ages more so than a next gen MMO.

I wouldn't mind if dungeons were hard and challenging, so long as the rewards are proportionate. But as it stands, the dungeons are a massive grind, you need to do up to 80 times a single dungeon just to get the gear from it. When people have to "grind" something, the least thing they want is for that something to be hard. Basically, the rewards don't compensate the effort. Imagine if every mob that you killed in the open world was suddenly a very challenging boss fight. Ultimately, that "Tiny Loot Bag" and few copper won't be enough incentive for you to kill them as you travel. Thus, you'll end up avoiding them. 

I honestly think they need to do the following:

- Implement a cross-server Dungeon Finder.

- Make it so there's only one badge currency for all armor. 

- Lower the currency required per piece of armor.

Originally posted by Nitth

lol... Strategy is pretty simple, Invest vast amounts of time grinding (or farming) various virtual currencies and gear.

So pretty much like every other MMORPG. Even GW2's "endgame" is nothing but a huge grind.

Blizzard's Titan will be steampunk. I'm calling it right now.