Originally posted by rungard

Originally posted by Entinerint

Originally posted by rungard

perhaps an easy way to solve the 1st/3rd person issue is simply to have some first person only servers. This wouldnt impact the people who like the 3rd person view better, and there would be no disadvantage relative to other players for playing in that view on the 1st person only servers.

they have all kinds of different rules servers and i see this as being no different.

who can really argue with that?

 

 

I can argue with it, ready?

Ok I'll be...LIGHT BLUE!!!

1) Different server rulesets require the dividing of the community.  We already have standard things like RP, PvP, PvE, RP-PvP, etc.  Then add DAOC's FFA, PvE, RvR rulesets, then add FPV rulesets.  That's 20 different server types right there.  Populations get lower, games feel dead, etc.  This is why recent games have been cutting down on the amount of rulesets.  GW2 launched with no sperate rulesets, only unofficial RP servers which are dictated by the community.

Just because one game has no special ruleset servers doesnt mean they all should. Most games have different rulesets for different types of players. the real deal is if there are enough players to justify a different rule server. With 1.7 million pc sales of skyrim, i would imagine they would be warranted. Beyond that you have to divide the community into servers anyway so your point is moot.

That's very true, some games still do, but not 20 different variations.  No game has ever gone that far.  It also depends on each individual's server caps, we might see a much higher cap with advent of better technology, but they'll also want to curb crowding.

Also, as a side note, Skyrim has sold over 2.5 million copies to date on PC.  You would think they would be capitalizing more on the TES fanbase, but I guess not.

Don't get me wrong, I am a FPV advocate, and prefer FPV to any other viewpoint by far, but an entire server just for a locked FPV seems farfetched to me, that's all.

2) I get why you're saying this, because of PvP, but I would hazard a guess that very few TES players play solely in one or the other.  I know I play in first-person, but sometimes I want to see what my character looks like (As Todd Howard puts it "Vanity Mode") riding his horse through the land.  I would want that option at times.  That comes with a drawback, not only can people have more available view in PvP, seeing behind them, etc, but they can also corner-look.  Go into 3rd person, put your face up to a wall at a corner, you can magically see around the corner without exposing yourself, able to get the jump on people.  This is kinda considered cheating, and part of the reason I only play on FPV servers in DayZ, because people use it to lean-kill you all the time in TPV.  Difference there is, its limited to 50 people per server anyway (see 1).

I would wager the vast majority of skyrim players exclusively use the first person view. There is certainly enough demand to warrant a server or a few servers. Beyond that you dont have to play on a FPV server. You can play on the standard server.

I would love it if this were the case.  There's no way to know from a factual standpoint without taking a far-reaching poll if it is true or not.  What I can say is TES games are designed for FPV primarily, and it is really sad that they have chosen to do away with that.  Then again, a lot of people complain about first-person and it is tough to judge who the majority is.  If I HAD to wager, I'd say it's likely pretty balanced, but on PC, would likely favor the use of FPV.  Of course, it is one of the major complaints BGS get about TES games, and why more of a focus as given to third-person in Skyrim, although I suspect they gimped it just a little bit to make FPV still the preferred mode of play.

3) Constantly being in FPV would, IMHO, absolutely necessitate a true real-time combat system, just like Skyrim has, or dare-I-say Dishonored (the melee combat in that game was fantastic).  Also, it would necessitate AI tweaks as well.

Completely not the case. Anyone who played everquest originally knows this. You do not need realtime anything, but you do need to see what the monster or player is doing, which will be more difficult with a 3rd person view. Since they are different servers however, the argument is irrelevent. The rules are the same for everyone.

Have you ever played WoW in first-person?  I mean, being in combat, even PvE, it is pretty messy, with things clipping into your camera, no accel/decel to make the movement feel fluid, etc.  It is much easier to tell what's going on from a far-out TPV.  You don't need to see what the monster or player is doing because when they are targetted you have a little readout that gives you all that info.  In TESO, we just have to watch the ground for AOE and attack targetting and that will be very hard from a FPV.  I stand by the fact that a fundamental change would have to occur to the combat and AI design for locked FPV to be viable.

Either first-person is the ONLY option across the board, just like the original TES games Arena and Daggerfall, or you have to let it be what it is: a preferential choice.

There is no reason you cant have FPV only servers and standard servers where you could choose either view.

I guarantee you, aside from the added server cost, those servers would be empty in a matter of weeks.  That said, I imagine most of TESO's servers will be empty in that time anyway, due to their direction on the game.

First-person: More immersion, less tactical advantage.

Less tactical advantage is relevent to someone using a different view. Since they will be on the same server with the same view there is no overall tactical advantage on a server basis.

Third-person: Less immersion, more tactical advantage.

Again there is no tactical advantage because everyone uses the same view. You actually will have a tactical disadvantage because it will be harder for you to see mob and player cues.

This was a comparison between the two.  A person in FPV is more immersed, and a person in TPV has more situational awareness.  That's just a fact.

Personally, I will PvE and explore in first-person, then PvP in third by necessity.  (LOLOLOL what am I talking about?!  I'm not installing this piece of crap!)

why are you here if your not interested in it.

I never said I wasn't interested, did I?  I said I'm not installing this piece of crap.  I am VERY interested in an Elder Scrolls MMORPG.  I have been dreaming and speculating about it with others since 2002.  That's ten years, ten freakin' years, ten!  But as it stands now, this garbage doesn't even deserve the Elder Scrolls name.  If they actually make the sweeping and fundamental changes necessary to make this title worthy of the TES IP, I might give it a second glance, but as it stands right now, no way in hell.  I could care less about DAOC with better graphics and the TES namesake slapped across the front.

 

Originally posted by Betaguy

Originally posted by rungard

I was thinking that in truth, DAOC was and still is the best rvr system that has ever existed. After a little reading i see that the TESO rvr system is really the daoc system with darkness falls as the main city. Ive also been reading on their combat model, and it is actually sounding really good to me.

So im going to look at this one as daoc 2 and not an elder scrolls game and give it another shot.

Whether they live up to it is another matter of course but time will tell.

 i will add though that if i see this game pull anything like the TOA expansion for DAOC and make raiding a requirement for the best gear, i will drop this game like a stone.

The game is going to be decent enough that it will trump most mmo's released in the last couple years. The user tools they are releasing are amazing.... nothing like it to date.

Source for user tools?  I think you're thinking about Neverwinter.

Originally posted by rungard

perhaps an easy way to solve the 1st/3rd person issue is simply to have some first person only servers. This wouldnt impact the people who like the 3rd person view better, and there would be no disadvantage relative to other players for playing in that view on the 1st person only servers.

they have all kinds of different rules servers and i see this as being no different.

who can really argue with that?

 

 

I can argue with it, ready?

1) Different server rulesets require the dividing of the community.  We already have standard things like RP, PvP, PvE, RP-PvP, etc.  Then add DAOC's FFA, PvE, RvR rulesets, then add FPV rulesets.  That's 20 different server types right there.  Populations get lower, games feel dead, etc.  This is why recent games have been cutting down on the amount of rulesets.  GW2 launched with no sperate rulesets, only unofficial RP servers which are dictated by the community.

2) I get why you're saying this, because of PvP, but I would hazard a guess that very few TES players play solely in one or the other.  I know I play in first-person, but sometimes I want to see what my character looks like (As Todd Howard puts it "Vanity Mode") riding his horse through the land.  I would want that option at times.  That comes with a drawback, not only can people have more available view in PvP, seeing behind them, etc, but they can also corner-look.  Go into 3rd person, put your face up to a wall at a corner, you can magically see around the corner without exposing yourself, able to get the jump on people.  This is kinda considered cheating, and part of the reason I only play on FPV servers in DayZ, because people use it to lean-kill you all the time in TPV.  Difference there is, its limited to 50 people per server anyway (see 1).

3) Constantly being in FPV would, IMHO, absolutely necessitate a true real-time combat system, just like Skyrim has, or dare-I-say Dishonored (the melee combat in that game was fantastic).  Also, it would necessitate AI tweaks as well.

Either first-person is the ONLY option across the board, just like the original TES games Arena and Daggerfall, or you have to let it be what it is: a preferential choice.

First-person: More immersion, less tactical advantage.

Third-person: Less immersion, more tactical advantage.

Personally, I will PvE and explore in first-person, then PvP in third by necessity.  (LOLOLOL what am I talking about?!  I'm not installing this piece of crap!)

Originally posted by adam_nox

Originally posted by ShakyMo
The majority of tes fans are not mmo players.

70% of skyrim sales were on console. 80% of oblivion sales were on console. That's why they have such an awful consolesque user interface. Your going back to Morrowind for there being a bigger pc audience, and even then many people played it because it wasn't a mmo (with it being deep in the period of wow total dominance)

Uh, you are backwards.

1.  The games sell better on consoles because consoles are pervasive and gaming computers are dying out.

2.  Morrowind was back in 01 or 02, no where near WoW's time.  When WoW came out, morrowind was mostly forgotten.

3.  Oblivion was developed for PC first, then for xbox, then for ps3, it's interface has nothing to do with consoles. 

4.  The consensus is that skyrim's interface is brilliant.  If you haven't played it on a console I would suggest you try it. 

 

The truth is, big relaxed open world experiences are better with gamepads and couches where you can relax for long periods of time, rather than short bursts hunched over a computer screen. 

Oh god let's not start a platform war.  Console games r best!  PC games are bestest!  No.  Stop.  There is no better or worse, just preference.

1. This is true and will always be true as long as consoles are cheaper and easier to use than gaming PCs.

2. Morrowind (released in 2002) was pretty popular, breaking 4 million lifetime sales which is not bad for a PC only game from that era.  Half-Life is arguably one of the most popular, released in 1998 and has sold approximately a million a year up until 2008.

3. Yes, BGS only got the 360 hardware 6 months before their launch date, which meant they really had to scramble to get it all ported over.  That being said, 360 had by far the largest market share.  PS3 is tough to judge because that version wasn't out for another 2 and a half years.

4. A lot of people liked that interface, it was great for console, but not for PC, which is why one of the first mods available was an interface overhaul, to make it more accessible, informative and user-friendly.  On PC the interface was bad, but it is very hard to cater to both PC and console-players.  The choice is obvious when the market share is so dispirate. 

All this being said, there is no accounting for cross-platformers.  I can't think of a single friend of mine who doesn't own a PC and a console, or a Mac and a console (remember TESO is coming to mac as well).  They may not have the top-of-the-line gaming rigs.  They may not play games primarily on their computer, but it is sitting there, and if they are fans of TES, even casually, they may in fact check out TESO.  Guaranteed, they will be mightily disappointed with what they find.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Galadourn

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Galadourn
Do you think the negative reaction of the MMO community at the announcement of TESO has forced Zenimax back to the drawing board to redesign core aspects of the game? It's been 4 months of almost complete radio silence. 

No, I don't think there is negative reaction from the greater mmo community. There is negative reaction from Elder Scrolls fans.

well, many of the Elder scrolls fans also happen to be MMO players. There was plenty of outcry in various fora when the first sneak peek went public.

Ok, so mmo players who are elder scrolls fans are also the people having a negative reaction. I think mmo players who are not elderscrolls fans won't care one way or the other (unless they are staunch supporters of sandbox games or some other faction in the mmo community) and will look at it as just another mmo.

Personally, I'm an elder scrolls fan who plays mmos and I'm indifferent to the game.

You are Paul Sage's worst nightmare!

"The last thing we want is for people not to be talking about, because that means they don't care." - Paul Sage, Creative Director, Elder Scrolls Online

Originally posted by kaiser3282

Originally posted by Kalstark
how can u all give something a second look wen we barely know anything about the game? fanboys and haters, wow

And then theres the people who are just plain cluelees about anything thats going on. Theyre even better!

When the game was announced, it sounded like TESO is nothing like TES games, theyre just using the lore. None of the mechanics / features that are the reasons why many people enjoy TES games.

The initital reacton by many was: "WTF, its WoW with TES lore, not Skyrim Online. Horrible"

But after getting over that initial feeling of them screwing up the IP, and taking a look at some of the other details theyve released, some are starting to realize that while it isnt "Skyrim Online", that doesnt make the game itself bad, and it also isn't just like WOW. Its shaping up to be more like a mix of GW2 and DAOC set in the world of Elder Scrolls.

Thats called giving it a 2nd chance and not blowing the game off purely because it wasnt what was expected for TESO.

I have yet to see anything, having read/watched every single piece of coverage on this game, that would make me give it another chance.  Still hoping though...

Regardless, everything that came around after that initial blitz and horrible reaction was marketing spin, trying to backpedal and put out all the fires.  During the initial phases they couldn't talk enough about how much like WoW it was, then during E3 every other sentence was "just like single-player TES games."  Idk what was more cringeworthy, the abject truth of the initial blitz or the shameless lies of the follow-up.

Now they are gearing up, I'm sure, for a third attempt.  This will either include new marketing language regarding stuff they've already told us, now spun to make it sound more TES-y, OR they'll actually have something to show, like actual gameplay.

Either that or they'll announce its cancellation, hahaha!

Originally posted by Goll25
I think its pretty obvious that when they say they are working on one, they mean more than just scrolling all the way in. Wow does not have fpv, its more of a helmet cam kinda thing, and doesnt change cameras, its part of the same camera. If they are working on a view point they most likely are going to try to do it bigger than that as that way requires no work, other than letting the camera zoom into 100%. The bonus will be for immersion more than anything most likely. There is just no pleasing this mmo crowd is there? Also someone said in the first page that skyrim was made more for 3rd person i highly disagree. Everything was easier in first for me. However if i was using a controller melee was easier in 3rd. Thats all opinion though i suppose.

They've had the zoom-in-fpv like WoW since they first announced the game. 

What people were complaining about is that the fpv was not like skyrim: ie, no hands with equipped weapons/items/spells as well as no hit-detection real-time combat.

Also, there was a Kotaku article that mentioned the zooming into FPV and how lackluster it was.  That was where the "first person is not a priority" quote came from.

This tweet was long after that, so whatever they are "working on" will inevitably be an improvement to the original system.

Gotta say, I've played TP MMOs for a long time, that have had the zoom in option, but since playing GW2 I REALLY miss first-person.  I never fought in first-person, but looking up at the beautiful sights in the world is very annoying with my big charr body in the way.

Originally posted by easternstorm
just dont use it simple enough

Um...you are confused about what "tab-targetting" is.

Originally posted by clarechultheis

Originally posted by Rimmersman

Originally posted by clarechultheis

Originally posted by Sentime

There are already a lot of great mmos out there.

There will never be a savior for those that ride the hype trains.

I totally agree. Some of the great mmo's are B2p.

 

I agree with the hype train, hype is the killer.As for some great B2P mmo, i can only think of one and that's guild bores 2. The fact remain is the leading MMO is P2P and many people would still pay a sub if the game was worth it. I for one am looking forward to TESO as you can see by my avitar.

I've seen the trailer of The Elder Scroll on youtube and it's freakin' amazing, but i won't judge it til i see the actual gameplay. :P

May I ask what about this supposed trailer amazes you?

Originally posted by Loke666

 

Exactly. The game might still have many well known features or not, but the important thing is that everything is custom made for the game, not feature X or Y.

WAR was particularly sad for me since the Warhammer fantasy RPG actually already have great mechanics they easily could have reengineered for a MMO and that actually fits the world.

Amost every single MMO since many years feels like someone put together a features list first based on what other successful games have instead of starting from the other side and thinking about what features the game needs to feel just right and as fun as possible.

Another sad example is LOTROs use of healers even if we all know it is against the lore. It was not really despair that killed Boromir, it was being hacked to part by orcs (even if bad morale never is good), and no minstrel could have saved him once the orcs started to hack him up. Turbine could have tried to make something that works with the world but didnt even bother to try.

I very much agree with this line of reasoning, hence why I am so utterly disappointed and boggled by the approach ZOS is taking with TESO.

Actually, no, it makes perfect sense from a viewpoint of some marketing bean-counter who knows nothing about MMORPGs, so I guess it is not boggling or surprising, just sad and disappointing.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
They've already started preliminary work on tes 6 havent they?

You do realise tes6 and TESO are being built by separate studios right?.

No, there has been no mention of TES6 whatsoever, the only rumors about BGS' next project are of Fallout 4 and they are just rumors.

Much of their team is still busy with Skyrim DLC anyway.

Originally posted by Axxar
I hope 1st person isn't the "main mode." I prefer 3rd person view in RPGs. It can work with dungeon crawlers like Eye of the Beholder and that sort though.

Or like, um, Elder Scrolls games.

derp

Elder Scrolls Online COULD have been the next big thing, if they'd done it right, but right now, there's no clear gem on the horizon. 

TESO is a huge pile of fetid cash-grabbing garbage, the way they have proposed it.  If they totally start over with their combat, graphics, pvp mechanics, faction mechanics, add housing, etc MAYBE they will have a chance, but right now all they can hope for is a couple thousand DAOC fans might play it for a few months for the RvR, but TES fans will stay the hell away and MMO nomads will move on after a month.

DF:UW looks interesting.  Played and loved DF in concept, but there were a lot of problems.  If they've fixed them, great, if not, boo.

Planetside 2 is a TON of fun but I doubt will revolutionize anything or even be that big.

Played Neverwinter at E3 and while the demo was fun, the complete lack of PvP and a heavily instanced world (similar to DDO) is going to kill it for a lot of people.  The player-made content angle is interesting though.

Archeage is getting a lot of hype but the interface and graphical style alone make my eyes vomit.

Everquest 3?  Not much is known but if promises are upheld, something SOE is at least attempting to do nowadays, it could be a beacon of light.

Then there's the biggest elephant in the room, aptly named Titan.  If Blizzard is smart, they will shut down WoW 1 day after Titan releases and give WoW vets huge bonuses in the new game.  If they do that, Titan will be the winner, aolthough another decade dominated by Blizzard's insidious design philosophies that promote addiction rather than immersion, I'm not sure if the MMO business will survive that.

Originally posted by Sicae

Originally posted by Icewhite

Two bad things happening in this thread:

• Similarities to previous games, automatic winner.
• Similarities to previous games, automatic loser.

In other words, the usual hype and anti-hype (anti-hype follows the same rules as hype, except for adopting "doom" as the automatic rather than "win").

Sadly, thats what you get on these kinds of forums. To actually discuss the basis of the game you need to go to a dedicated forum.

Guess you haven't been to the bethsoft TESO forum.  It's pretty much all brown-nosing there, no real discussion, just a bunch of moronic threads like this OP, and when people do voice concerns they are battered by blind fanboyism and eventually banned.

Originally posted by Zylaxx

Originally posted by Entinerint

Originally posted by Zylaxx

Originally posted by Entinerint

Originally posted by Zylaxx

 

1. Aion(1 votes [2.04%] - View)

2. Percentage of vote: 2.04%

3. Asheron's Call (Darktide)(6 votes [12.24%] - View)

   Percentage of vote: 12.24%

4. Dark Age of Camelot(6 votes [12.24%] - View)

   Percentage of vote: 12.24%

5. Darkfall(3 votes [6.12%] - View)

   Percentage of vote: 6.12%

6. EVE Online(4 votes [8.16%] - View)

   Percentage of vote: 8.16%

7. Everquest 1 (Zek) (0 votes [0.00%])

   Percentage of vote: 0.00%

8. Everquest 2(1 votes [2.04%] - View)

   Percentage of vote: 2.04%

9. Guild Wars(1 votes [2.04%] - View)

   Percentage of vote: 2.04%

10. Lineage II (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

11. Rift(2 votes [4.08%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.08%

12. Runes of Magic(2 votes [4.08%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.08%

13. Shadowbane(5 votes [10.20%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.20%

14. Star Wars Galaxies(1 votes [2.04%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.04%

15. TERA Online(3 votes [6.12%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.12%

16. Ultima Online(8 votes [16.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.33%

17. Vanguard(2 votes [4.08%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.08%

18. Warhammer Online (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

19. World of Tanks(2 votes [4.08%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.08%

20. World of Warcraft(2 votes [4.08%] - View)

There's one.  A sampling of all 49 people, hardly a worthy sample. 

However, let's imagine the same ratio would exist at 20 million people.

Even in that case, the majority go for Ultima Online, an FFA PvP game.

2nd is tied between Asheron's Call Darktide yet another FFA PvP ruleset and DAOC, our beloved RvR.

The only other RvR game in there is Warhammer Online, zero votes, but there are two other FFA games on there, Darkfall and Shadowbane with three votes and five votes, respectively. 

Therefore, according to the poll you linked, that's 6 votes for RvR, 22 votes for FFA.  FFA wins by almost 4 times the number.

I appreciate the honesty, but this hardly supports your theory as it makes RvR the smallest minority of the preferred PvP type.

Where is this from?  Please link the source, and link the exact question that was asked of this poll.

A random forum.  It was the only statistical poll I found o nthe front page of google.  However you still refuse to acknowlege the top ten hammer post I made also.

I edited, but I'll repeat.

The TenTonHammer piece is one man's opinion, not a poll or sampling, therefore it is dismissed.

This one puts DAOC at number 5: http://mmohuts.com/editorials/best-p2p-pvp-mmorpgs

This guy puts it at #3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0y38In2v0U

These personal bests are irrelevant.

I'm done with this, I proved conclusively that DAoC was a superb and well recieved game, anyone who played knows so.  The biggest fans of the TES MMO are also ex-DAoC vets.  Nothing more for me to prove but to wait on its release.  Will I think it be a huge success?  Prolly not but it will sell well and do good based on its own merits and not because its a Skyrim (or any other TES) clone.  I and many thousands of fans are looking forward to it so at the end of the day that is all that counts. 

Go ahead and concede defeat, that's fine, as you have proven exactly nothing.

DAOC was a good game, no one is refuting that, what we are refuting is that its fanbase is a worthy focal fanbase from a marketing standpoint and I have conclusively proven that is is not.

The only hope for success that TESO has is on the back of the TES brand.  Sadly, as the OP pointed out, they squandered that with their initial barrage of marketing and misinformation.

PS: I saw your "best MMOs" thread, even posted my own top ten.  Sadly DAOC only got 3, maybe 4 mentions out of 3 pages of top tens.  Good try though.

1. SWG

2. UO

3. Darkfall Online

4. Mortal Online

5. Fallen Earth

6. Everquest

7. Asheron's Call

8. Planetside 2 (I'm in the beta)

9. Shadowbane

10. Vanguard

I see you Zylaxx :P

Originally posted by znaiika

Originally posted by Entinerint

Wrong.  Everyone is PvP.  You aren't forced to PvP but if you enter Cyrodiil you are automatically PvP.  This isn't SWG, where you can unflag yourself, or choose not to join a faction. 

[mod edit]

There is no automatic pvp in Tamriel, pvp is an option, if you want to pvp? join any of three alliances, then you will be pvp flagged, if you don't do that you won't be pvp flagged and you will be able to visit all prvinces.

No, you do not "join an alliance" you make a character.  Your race automatically assigns you to the alliance. 

If you are a Dark Elf, Nord or Argonian, you are automatically assigned, right out of character creation, to the Ebonheart pact.

If you are Orc, Redguard or Breton, you are automatically assigned, right out of character creation, to the Daggerfall Covenant.

If you are High Elf, Wood Elf or Khajiit, you are automatically assigned, right out of character creation, to the Aldmeri Dominion.

You have no choice beyond that.

I understand how you might think I'm trolling, due to how moronic this approach is, but that's how they're doing it.

As for automatic PvP, you flag for PvP by going into Cyrodiil, but everywhere else you will only be among your race-locked allies.

Originally posted by Zylaxx

Originally posted by Entinerint

Originally posted by Zylaxx

 

1. Aion(1 votes [2.04%] - View)

2. Percentage of vote: 2.04%

3. Asheron's Call (Darktide)(6 votes [12.24%] - View)

   Percentage of vote: 12.24%

4. Dark Age of Camelot(6 votes [12.24%] - View)

   Percentage of vote: 12.24%

5. Darkfall(3 votes [6.12%] - View)

   Percentage of vote: 6.12%

6. EVE Online(4 votes [8.16%] - View)

   Percentage of vote: 8.16%

7. Everquest 1 (Zek) (0 votes [0.00%])

   Percentage of vote: 0.00%

8. Everquest 2(1 votes [2.04%] - View)

   Percentage of vote: 2.04%

9. Guild Wars(1 votes [2.04%] - View)

   Percentage of vote: 2.04%

10. Lineage II (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

11. Rift(2 votes [4.08%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.08%

12. Runes of Magic(2 votes [4.08%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.08%

13. Shadowbane(5 votes [10.20%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.20%

14. Star Wars Galaxies(1 votes [2.04%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.04%

15. TERA Online(3 votes [6.12%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.12%

16. Ultima Online(8 votes [16.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.33%

17. Vanguard(2 votes [4.08%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.08%

18. Warhammer Online (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

19. World of Tanks(2 votes [4.08%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.08%

20. World of Warcraft(2 votes [4.08%] - View)

There's one.  A sampling of all 49 people, hardly a worthy sample. 

However, let's imagine the same ratio would exist at 20 million people.

Even in that case, the majority go for Ultima Online, an FFA PvP game.

2nd is tied between Asheron's Call Darktide yet another FFA PvP ruleset and DAOC, our beloved RvR.

The only other RvR game in there is Warhammer Online, zero votes, but there are two other FFA games on there, Darkfall and Shadowbane with three votes and five votes, respectively. 

Therefore, according to the poll you linked, that's 6 votes for RvR, 22 votes for FFA.  FFA wins by almost 4 times the number.

I appreciate the honesty, but this hardly supports your theory as it makes RvR the smallest minority of the preferred PvP type.

Where is this from?  Please link the source, and link the exact question that was asked of this poll.

A random forum.  It was the only statistical poll I found o nthe front page of google.  However you still refuse to acknowlege the top ten hammer post I made also.

I edited, but I'll repeat.

The TenTonHammer piece is one man's opinion, not a poll or sampling, therefore it is dismissed.

This one puts DAOC at number 5: http://mmohuts.com/editorials/best-p2p-pvp-mmorpgs

This guy puts it at #3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0y38In2v0U

These personal bests are irrelevant.