http://www.gametrailers.com/reviews/97i3kd/chivalry--medieval-warfare-review

Played this today.  It is beautifully tuned.  I've always enjoyed FPS melee combat, but also recognized its flaws.  Until now!  Aside from the gimmicky arrow-cam, this is pretty much flawless.  Finally, somebody found the right balance!

If they made the ESO combat like this, it would be a winner.

And before anybody starts crying: totally possible in an MMO environment against multiple foes.

Originally posted by baphamet

i am thinking (from reading the review) you will not come across any rival faction players unless you enter Cyrodiil.

 

Correct, you are locked out of 2/3rds of the world.

Originally posted by Mavek
I thought the pvp in this game similar ti GW2 as it was a gigantic instanced area and that true open world pvp was non-existant. Anyne confirm or deny?

Correct, it's like DAOC.  Imagine GW2 and make those four PvP zones one big zone.

Originally posted by itchmon

Originally posted by Entinerint

Originally posted by Hancakes

Originally posted by itchmon

one of the little oddball details about DF that i found wierd was that you couldnt repair gear.  it would just degrade til poof.  i realize that items need to be removed from the game for the economy to thrive but it just seems that, realistically speaking and even RP speaking, that at the very least there should be a player skill to repair gear.

 

 

 

thoughts?

NO!!! (You just dont get it)

I understand where you're coming from OP, but there's actually a good reason.

Gear HAS to have a time limit on it.  All gear has to be temporary.  What it does is makes sure you never get attached to one piece of gear.  Now this doesn't always work, people still get attached to gear, but it gives the impression that if you use that piece of gear, it will eventually go away forever. 

This is an important psychological aspect to FFA full-loot systems.  It is also important for the player-driven economy that there are no permanent items.

I can see how a one-time repair could be good, but it would have to just be prolonging the life of a weapon or piece of armor.  Once something is repaired once it can never be repaired again, I'd be cool with that.

i gotcha at least to a point.  thanks.  i guess it woujld help to state that my point of view for stuff like this is one of a 5 year player of eve.  in eve, of course, no gear is *really* permanent because it dies if you die.  however if your ship is merely damaged,, instead of smashed completely, then at an outpost you can repair your stuff.

 

nothing lasts forever... because eventually you-sa gonna die.  but if you are careful you can keep your "precious" for a while.

 

would something along those lines work?  damage from non-fatal encounters is repairable but dying permanently and irrevokably damages an item?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in EvE, isn't it that you don't get all the items a ship drops when it is destroyed, like maybe 50% of them will drop at most, but the rest are destroyed?

That's the major difference.  In Darkfall, ALL your gear drops, as is.  So whoever kills you gets it all, (or you come back and pick it up if you're lucky and/or killed by a mob) ostensibly, so that gear just gets recycled back into the economy immediately.

There might be a rare occasion where your grave will disappear unclaimed (after about an hour) but I doubt that would ever happen.  So 99% of the time, ALL your items go back into the economy, if they were permanent there would be much less need to continue gathering resources and, well, playing the PvE/crafting/gathering aspects of the game.

Originally posted by nationalcity

Originally posted by Entinerint

Originally posted by JoePesci

That may be nice, but will players of the opposing factions run around in "god-mode" making them unattackable by other players while they quest, stay around in cities or just travel through the persistent (?) world and so on?

 

I can accept that players of my own faction are protected by some mysterious higher force that never explains itself, but I can't accept this for the opposing factions. It takes away too much excitement from a game if I cannot attack things that I normally should be able to attack and if those things cannot attack me. NPCs just feel dead to me, no unpredictable intentions and no emotions. Real evil can only come from other players, IF the game allows them to be a threat, to be evil.

No, players from other factions won't be on god-mode because...

...get ready for it...

...YOU ARE LOCKED INTO YOUR OWN FACTION ZONES!  While in the PvE zones, you will only ever see players from your own faction, because you can't cross the borders.

Then you go into Cyrodiil and PvP.  But otherwise, you are questing and levelling in your own territory.  In order to see the whole world, you need to roll an alt on the other two factions.

Probably this.......

 

I'm not so sure about the having to roll an alt to see all the world I think you will be able to go anywhere and do anything and they will have some areas that are contested or open world PVP.....

 

If you actually had to roll an alt to see the other areas I wouldn't mind it, but I'm also an altoholic and it would be nice not have to do the same content over and over while leveling different factions.....

You would have to roll an alt, it is confirmed.

Personally I'm not an altaholic, but for them trying to push the "faction loyalty" thing this is a bad way of going about it.  Which alt's faction are you most loyal to?

Originally posted by Hancakes

Originally posted by itchmon

one of the little oddball details about DF that i found wierd was that you couldnt repair gear.  it would just degrade til poof.  i realize that items need to be removed from the game for the economy to thrive but it just seems that, realistically speaking and even RP speaking, that at the very least there should be a player skill to repair gear.

 

 

 

thoughts?

NO!!! (You just dont get it)

I understand where you're coming from OP, but there's actually a good reason.

Gear HAS to have a time limit on it.  All gear has to be temporary for two major reasons.  What it does is makes sure you never get attached to one piece of gear.  Now this doesn't always work, people still get attached to gear, but it gives the impression that if you use that piece of gear, it will eventually go away forever.  This is an important psychological aspect to FFA full-loot systems. 

It is also important for the player-driven economy that there are no permanent items.  It ensures the economy won't get too flooded with undestroyable high-end items and devalue the resources needed to make them.

I can see how a one-time repair could be good, but it would have to just be prolonging the life of a weapon or piece of armor.  Once something is repaired once it can never be repaired again, I'd be cool with that, as long as it took a fraction of the resources needed to make the item, to repair it.

Originally posted by JoePesci

That may be nice, but will players of the opposing factions run around in "god-mode" making them unattackable by other players while they quest, stay around in cities or just travel through the persistent (?) world and so on?

 

I can accept that players of my own faction are protected by some mysterious higher force that never explains itself, but I can't accept this for the opposing factions. It takes away too much excitement from a game if I cannot attack things that I normally should be able to attack and if those things cannot attack me. NPCs just feel dead to me, no unpredictable intentions and no emotions. Real evil can only come from other players, IF the game allows them to be a threat, to be evil.

No, players from other factions won't be on god-mode because...

...get ready for it...

...YOU ARE LOCKED INTO YOUR OWN FACTION ZONES!  While in the PvE zones, you will only ever see players from your own faction, because you can't cross the borders.

Then you go into Cyrodiil and PvP.  But otherwise, you are questing and levelling in your own territory.  In order to see the whole world, you need to roll an alt on the other two factions.

Originally posted by Falesh

Originally posted by Entinerint

Good lord this sounds EXACTLY like what I'm looking for, too bad its EU, I'm on the US West Coast so my ping would probably make me pretty ineffective...

Why are there no awesome clans like this on NA?!

Thanks for that. We do have a couple of Americans in the guild but not that many, though we do have some Euros who play all night. :P

I might just apply then.  Hopefully my ping won't make things unplayable, but I doubt I'll be an effective archer in PvP.

Done, under the name Rorik Ivarsson.

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Entinerint

Originally posted by BadSpock

This is why in some sense I really, really miss open world sandbox fantasy MMORPGs.

Sadly I think far too many of the l33t kid PK FPS junkie crowd have gotten into MMOs to ever make such a sandbox viable unless you completely seperate PvE and PvP.

What makes TES (Skyrim specifically for me) so good?

It's MY sandbox.

What would ruin Skyrim for me?

Exploring out in the wild, find a cave/dungeon and start clearing it - get to the end and.... dozen or so people standing around spamming /dance and making Chuck Norris jokes waiting to spawn tag a named mob respawn...

Sneaking through a city, picking pockets and breaking into homes and shops, murdering the occassional shop keeper / villager... and having a naked half-elf following me around doing /yell and bunny hopping...

Traveling through the woods looking for mines and hunting dear for leather to make and modify/enhance some more armor, pursuing my love of being a blacksmith... and having some kid PK me and then spawn camp my corpse after looting all my custom-made gear and items.

Long story short - the reason sandbox games really don't "work" for me and so many others anymore -

Most MMO players are idiots/assholes.

Sure, you ca say "yeah but in a true sandbox you could kill the naked half-elf following you, bring your guildies and clear out all the players spawning the named mob, and bring a friend or two and hunt down and kill the PK who camped your corpse" - which is all true.

But not good enough - MY sandbox and MY experience has already been ruined.

And I am simply not going to pay to be someone else's content - especially when it's at the expense of my enjoyment of the game.

All we would need is for one of these games to add a proper crime+punishment and NPC faction system instead of the wimpy flagging that Darkfall and Mortal do.  Make being a criminal/murderer a REALLY hard life.

Basically makes it possible to be a PKer/Griefer but makes it a hard life to choose.  Encourages more lawful behavior.  Makes getting caught a pain in the ass and players will likely not commit crimes again once having had a stint in jail.

I agree 100% and have been saying such on this very website for some time now - life is always way, way too easy for PK's in sandbox MMOs.

Even in Skyrim, you can be a total bastard in one province and have a HUGE bounty on your head - and just go to another province and everyone still loves you.

That's how I do it, make sure I have a "home" district where I have no bounty so I still have access to vendors and housing etc. without issues.

Those kind of lenient rules is what PKs thive off of and are thusly free to make life Hell on everyone else with NO real punishment or worry.

Thusly I am happy ESO is not a true sandbox MMO, as other players would naturally RUIN my ES sandbox.

I'd go as far to say that to make it really "work" in a sandbox MMO, you'd have to have permadeath for repeat offenders.

Talk about realism - want to be a murderous pirate / assassin / general bastard? Better not get caught or it really is game over. You'd think if the PKs are really so "hardcore" they'd love it! But they don't, because most of them are really just skilless noob gankers/griefers who QQ when they lose a more fair fight.

Permadeath public executions?  Holy shit that's brilliant.  As a person who usually plays a thief (when possible), that would be A-MAZING to have looming over my head.

I really think TESO could be an amazing sandbox IF it had the balls to add this kind of stuff.  But ZOS clearly does not think that way, so we will get a hum-drum themepark with TES lore.

Originally posted by ste2000

Originally posted by tazarconan

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/6819/The-Elder-Scrolls-Online-The-Comprehensive-Preview.html

For the last 2-4 months i ve read several posts from various ppl here in mmorpg,claiming things about how TESO was to be a wow clone,with the usual auto-attack combat system wow,eq etc etc has, but guess what...After reading the preview of that alpha tester here in the site the game uses the typical oblivion-skyrim, style combat system .Aim and attack,block dodge manually,even spells need a typical aim.And by reading the whole thread this game looks like a deep mmorpg ,even in terms of character progression.Exploration adn adventuring remains in high standards,as most ppl want also.

So im wondering.. Why all those ignorant little pests were frieking lying about with their posts without knowing jacksheet missinforming,bashing a game they didnt have a clue what it is about in the 1st place.

Its too early too speak about it,but from what it looks from the preview i think i found the next mmorpg i ll be playing for the next 5-6 years when it comes.

That was 6 month ago, when people complained about the Combat.

Guess what, because of that, during these 6 months Zenimax improved it (but not good enough yet).

Result !

And it is not over yet, there is still a lot of room from improvement, so get used to the QQ cause we haven't done yet.

It shows that a good TES MMO is possible, we just have to make them understand what is needed and desired.  We need to be vocal, and proud of our opinions.  Not all of them will make it, sure, but hopefully it will get close enough. 

Criticize the hell out of this game, the IP is too precious to let fade into a shitty MMO.

Originally posted by kaiser3282

Like Raxeon said, you keep your skills. Eventually you can master every skill in the game just like in DF1, you just wont be able to use all of them at once and have to choose which role to use at the time for different situations.

Essentially everyone can be everything, just not all things at once.

Will be kind of interesting to see which players become well known for being great at certain roles vs those who are known for being great regardless of which role theyre in.

I am soooooooooooooo excited, this sounds like a really happy medium!

Originally posted by salenger

Originally posted by Entinerint

DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!

I personally checked with several of the reviewers: combat is NOT real-time.  It is much akin to GW2, not quite like TERA (which is barely real-time).  There is soft-targetting.  You do NOT aim attacks.  You CANNOT swing your weapons freely.  You do NOT aim spells, swings or bows.  You DO have to be facing your target, and put your cursor over the target, but then, voila, auto-attack begins as long as you're in range.

It is a hybrid system, which is better than nothing, but they need to take it further, all the way: Mortal, Darkfall, TES-style before it is fully there.

They did a good thing by listening to the complaints and improving things.

Note that anyone who was there AND was also at the E3 presentation says a LOT has changed.  They are also no longer saying this stuff is impossible.  So there's hope that they may get to proper real-time direct-action combat system, but they may now just rest on their laurels on this one.

The combat in this game failed the moment they decided to use the Hero engine, its just not possible with that engine at all.

But liek you said MO and DF both were able to make it work and they had/have a handful of people developing, im sure if this game wasnt all about a money grab that Zenimax could have changed the MMO world, instead i feel they have just take the lore and pasted onto a typical MMO.

But...i hope im wrong.

They used the heroengine to prototype the game.  The real game is built on something called ZENgine.  Still, I doubt they accounted for real-time combat when they built that thing either.

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by muffins89

what i like the most is they are true RPG's.  i can be a murderer,  a thief,  a knight,  a traveler, a villager,  a blacksmith,  an alchemist,  an ass hole,  the games me the opportunity play a role,  in a virtual world.  something i think most mmoRPG's have missed on.  i guess that's why developers and fans just call them MMO's nowadays.

This is why in some sense I really, really miss open world sandbox fantasy MMORPGs.

Sadly I think far too many of the l33t kid PK FPS junkie crowd have gotten into MMOs to ever make such a sandbox viable unless you completely seperate PvE and PvP.

What makes TES (Skyrim specifically for me) so good?

It's MY sandbox.

What would ruin Skyrim for me?

Exploring out in the wild, find a cave/dungeon and start clearing it - get to the end and.... dozen or so people standing around spamming /dance and making Chuck Norris jokes waiting to spawn tag a named mob respawn...

Sneaking through a city, picking pockets and breaking into homes and shops, murdering the occassional shop keeper / villager... and having a naked half-elf following me around doing /yell and bunny hopping...

Traveling through the woods looking for mines and hunting dear for leather to make and modify/enhance some more armor, pursuing my love of being a blacksmith... and having some kid PK me and then spawn camp my corpse after looting all my custom-made gear and items.

Long story short - the reason sandbox games really don't "work" for me and so many others anymore -

Most MMO players are idiots/assholes.

Sure, you ca say "yeah but in a true sandbox you could kill the naked half-elf following you, bring your guildies and clear out all the players spawning the named mob, and bring a friend or two and hunt down and kill the PK who camped your corpse" - which is all true.

But not good enough - MY sandbox and MY experience has already been ruined.

And I am simply not going to pay to be someone else's content - especially when it's at the expense of my enjoyment of the game.

All we would need is for one of these games to add a proper crime+punishment and NPC faction system instead of the wimpy flagging that Darkfall and Mortal do.  Make being a criminal/murderer a REALLY hard life.

- Bounty systems where lawful players can hunt down criminals and kill them for money.

- Add NPC factions/governments who player factions can choose to ally with, for a price: you have to obey their laws and pay fealty/taxes, but you get their protection in return.

- If they don't ally with a government, the can be considered rogue, and will be periodically attacked by NPCs from their closest NPC faction.

- Criminals/Murderers will be hunted by NPCs (mercs, guards, assassins), who show up randomly and attack them.

- Actual guards in NPC towns (hireable for player towns if aligned with a faction) who can immobilize/capture/kill criminals.

- Criminals can choose to go to prison where they literally have to wait for in-game, non-afk time for their sentence to be up.  They can choose hard labor and break rocks/cut trees, duel other players in jail or play gambling games to pass the time.  They can pay fines for minor crimes.

Basically makes it possible to be a PKer/Griefer but makes it a hard life to choose.  Encourages more lawful behavior.  Makes getting caught a pain in the ass and players will likely not commit crimes again once having had a stint in jail.

DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!

I personally checked with several of the reviewers: combat is NOT real-time.  It is much akin to GW2, not quite like TERA (which is barely real-time).  There is soft-targetting.  You do NOT aim attacks.  You CANNOT swing your weapons freely.  You do NOT aim spells, swings or bows.  You DO have to be facing your target, and put your cursor over the target, but then, voila, auto-attack begins as long as you're in range.

It is a hybrid system, which is better than nothing, but they need to take it further, all the way: Mortal, Darkfall, TES-style before it is fully there.

They did a good thing by listening to the complaints and improving things.

Note that anyone who was there AND was also at the E3 presentation says a LOT has changed.  They are also no longer saying this stuff is impossible.  So there's hope that they may get to proper real-time direct-action combat system, but they may now just rest on their laurels on this one.

They made them that way so they wouldn't have to make new models for helmets.

Hopefully they suck it up and make them like Skyrim Argonians.  The velociraptor look was awesome.

Honestly?

I haven't spent a dime on GW2 beyond the buy price.  Nothing on the cash shop that's useful can't be gotten through gameplay.

I wouldn't pay a subscription for GW2.  It is not a compelling enough game to warrant a monthly fee, in my view anyway.

As for another game that had more dynamic features, open world, real-time combat, like, let's say DF:UW, I will be paying a sub for.

Originally posted by Lawlmonster

Originally posted by Zylaxx

Originally posted by Lawlmonster
It's hard for me to take this game or the developers seriously when they say things like "it's impossible" in regards to creating an open world game, or that members from their team have all but said they have no problem catering to the themepark necessity all MMO's seem to think they're forced to design under. Some of the features sound like they're starting to head in the right direction, and I think it's pretty obvious that they're doing everything they can to distance themselves from the initial response that the first leak of information regarding TES had stirred. Hopefully for them, they'll continue listening to the feedback from those of the fans who weren't thrilled about what they were doing to the series.

Show me where the Devssaid it was impossible to create an open world?  You're either misinformed (like so many other posters in this thread) or  making things up!

 

The Devs stated that certain features were not optimal in an MMO setting and this is the truth. 

I think you're missing the point, but you're right: the "we can't do it" attitude has certainly been exaggerated. I apologize for my fault in that, but it isn't true that certain features aren't optimal for an MMO setting. They may not be optimal for their budget or management, that may not be fallacious.

 

To be fair the devs are quoted as saying real-time combat like Skyrim in an MMORPG is "impossible."

Originally posted by OG_Zorvan

Originally posted by Zylaxx

Hey listen, I know this site is known for its sandbox fanbois and hating on anything that seems popular but can we please cut the crap with the hate before it turns others off.  Contrary to what you might believe, the written word has alot of power both for good and for bad and there are alot of players who may come across as jaded, uninformed, and outright anti-"whatever hate your spewing", when at one time they were either on the fence or had no knowledge of the game.  Not to mention this hate has the power to convey wrong messages and creates animosity amongst the readers.

 

Please if you dont like it, say your peace and move on, some of us actually liek the game and for every negative thread I see I have this uncanny knack to prve you wrong and that also isnt healthy.  Let the fans decide how this game comes across.  No one likes a critic!

Go to the games official forums if you want sunshine and rainbows. These forums are for everyone, hater and fanboi alike.

QFT

Originally posted by Ausare
If you want a sandbox go play df. The fact that game can not make great profits keep more from being produced.

OP said Sandpark, a barely touched upon hybrid genre that no one has quite figured out yet.