Give me an Em

Give me an Oh

Give me an En

Give me an Ee

Give me a Why

What does that spell?!

MONEY!!!

Welcome to May 2012.  I guess people are still finding out about this game even now.

As for DAOC, it was a deeply flawed game that 250,000 people played and everyone looks back on with rose-colored glasses because it was very different for its time.  I guess retreading 10-year-old game designs is the norm though so I'm sure it'll be great!

Originally posted by tkreep

Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
I dislike the fact that they won't merge the console and pc markets. That's less players to play with. Why would you not want this?

They always say its cuz of different controls but thats an invalid excuse in my opinion for this game at least, cuz i i kill in pvp in GW2 regardless of what the enemy is using as controls and I use a gamepad for that

It's valid in terms of ESO because unlike GW2 of FFXIV, you need to aim in ESO.  Not so accurately as a shooter, but there's no auto-targeting so you have to turn to attack.  Mouse turn will always be faster and more accurate than analog sticks and people playing with gamepads in PvP would be disastrous against people with mouse/keyboard.

That said, since the PvP is totally separate from PvE they could have only allowed same platform players in the PvP zone but allowing all players to PvE together.

They've been doing that since the announcement of the game over a year ago.

They will let people praise the crap out of it all over the place but if you want to complain, you'd better relegate it to a single thread so the devs don't get sad and/or don't see that the complaints are numerous.

Sad devs are sad, every time they announce something they think is great they get reamed by the community.

Except for first-person combat, that was the exception.

Originally posted by Maelwydd

The one question I kept asking through this video is...

If you can totally ignore the class skills what is the point in forcing people to choose a class in the first place?

They really should let you make a custom class as well.  I mean by all means keep the 4 classes for people who don't want to customize and just want to grab an archetype and jump in, but for the rest of us, give us the ability to choose any 3 of the 12 class skill-trees.  That'd be great.  I'd probably go with 2 of the Nightblade trees (whichever ones didn't deal with traps and poisons and then add the stormcalling tree from Sorcerer.

Not bigger than Daggerfall.  No way in hell (Daggerfall's landmass was over 62,000 square km).  Oblivion, Skyrim and Morrowind were pretty small by MMO standards so that makes sense.

Large game worlds: http://www.geekosystem.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Large-Video-Game-Worlds.jpg

Larger game worlds: http://i.imgur.com/5fXSJ.jpg

Originally posted by HighMarshal

Has any full open world PvP games ever survived? Most crash and burn after release, while the rest slowly fade into........

Oblivion!

LOL WTF

Ultima Online would like a word with you, friend.  Still kickin' after 15 years.

EvE Online too.

Also Darkfall and Mortal.

In fact, I can't think of a single Open PvP game that has ever been shut down for lack of players/money.  Only one was Darkfall 1 and that's just because they wanted everyone playing the sequel.

Originally posted by topographic

Can you imagine ESO with the gameplay of the ES series?

Thousands of people running around spamming chat with, "What do I do next?"

It would be a nightmare.

What?  No one would ever say that cuz quest markers.

I get why people think ESO should be a PvE sandbox based on the SP TES games.

However, I think TES is more akin to a PvP sandbox, or more pertinent: a PvP SandPark.  There are quests and storylines that are usually absent in sandbox.

As for PvP, one of the hallmarks of TES games is that you can attack anyone, anywhere at any time and take all the stuff on their body if you kill them.

It would make MORE sense to have this apply to both NPCs and Players in game.

Remember also they would have to add in-game justice systems to make sure it wasn't a massive gank-fest.  Fines of gold, experience, skillpoints, jailtime, and even, permadeath maybe in a public execution if you are caught being super evil.

While NONE of those things would make the game POPULAR, it would certainly make a lot more SENSE than what they have now.

Originally posted by Maelwydd

Originally posted by Holice

Why does everyone keep comparing single player games to MMO's? This is the exact same mentality that hurt TOR with the KOTOR devoted.

 

You have think long term longevity. If they faction lock some zones it forces you to roll those factions to experience the full game and thus, adds more play time with "different" content. Otherwise, you just steam roll through the other zones, or never really experience the zone by not questing there.

 

There will still be plenty of content that allows cross faction intermingling and more than likely plenty of high level content to keep you busy. But let's be patient and at least wait for them to release some more information before we grab the pitchforks and light the torches.

So let me put your logic into numbers...

Lets say each faction zone has 100 quests each zone.

With faction lock you get 100 quests in your faction zone. Then on your first alt you get another 100 quests. And if you create a 3rd alt another 100 quests. For a total of 300 quests.

Correct so far?

OK so now you remove faction lock. The walls are no longer there so you can now do all quests in each of the now unlocked faction zones with 1 character. For a total of 300 quests.

How exactly does faction lock give you more content because either my maths is way off or it doesn't.

 

So while we don't know exactly what content there will be, the fallacy that splitting everything gives you more content is false.

It's nice to see people who aren't complete morons in this comments section.  Welcome to the vast minority Maelwydd.  We are outnumbered by morons, get a helmet.

Originally posted by wordiz

Faction lock makes sense to the games story. With the options we'll have at end game to explore the other territories, or hopefully even switch factions if you desire, I think it will make a lot more sense. It also builds realm pride, and creates competition. 

PLEASE ZENIMAX, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT BEND!!!

 

Cool.

Wrong, wrong wrong and wrong.

See above.

"Of course, there are gameplay reasons to go this route, too. On the RvR side of things, it helps make the enemy much more easily identifiable, especially when there are three factions all colliding. If I know that High Elves are only part of the Aldmeri Dominion, that helps me identify targets in a chaotic battle."

All the races are pretty much the same under armor.  Aside from Argonians and Khajiit there will be no major identifying factors between races during a battle.  All elves will be indistinguishable as will all humans.  Red is dead.  You are basically constantly fighting a battle where you are outnumbered 2:1.

"Outside of the actual gameplay, it was a sense of ‘realm pride’ that kept the fight going and the rivalries hot in Dark Age of Camelot, and there’s no doubt in my mind that Zenimax Online is looking to recreate that in The Elder Scrolls Online."

So you want realm pride, but you want to lock races into factions and territory (aside from the 50+ option).  Despite what people assume, this actually counteracts realm pride (in TES, not in DAOC), because you are being forced to fight for your faction based on race.  You are essentially being drafted, and draftees statistically have a lot less pride for their military and its cause than volunteers.  You forget that the majority of people who play this game (people who have played TES before) will not be choosing a faction.  They will be choosing a race that they like from their TES experience and the faction is then assigned to them.  They will have no pride for their faction, just their race.  In the case of Orcs, Argonians and Khajiit there is NO reason why they would feel pride for an alliance with races that have scorned them, fought them, enslaved them and shunned them in the past.  Alliance pride is a myth in the case of ESO.

"It’s also helpful for TESO as far as balance goes. The Elder Scrolls series is known for having meaningful racial abilities and attributes, something not common in contemporary MMOs, but surprisingly seems to be a concept that Zenimax Online is fully embracing. Not only will characters have defining racial abilities, there are actually entire racial skill lines available to each race in the game. This can pose some serious balance issues if you allow completely freeform race selection."

Actually, this also has the opposite effect, if any race can join any faction and/or have the option to be neutral (either mercing up for PvP or not being able to access it at all) then the balance is 100% guaranteed.  We don't just have racial perks in ESO, we have racial trees.  Therefore, racial trees will likely be RPS'd with other races, that means it won't actually matter what races are in what factions, balance will occur naturally and if not, entropy will occur naturally.  That's how RvR works, via entropy.  Also, you have to consider that due to the way races are divided up (basically by being neighbors, shoe-horning DAOC's system into Elder Scrolls with no regard for the actual lore) Ebonheart Pact is, across the board the most popular faction (holding 41% of the votes in a polling sample of 10,000 people collected on the ESO forums): http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1451421-faction-polls/page__p__22456174__hl__faction%20poll__fromsearch__1#entry22456174

Therefore, you have imbalanced the factions simply by making them race-based in the first place, as Dunmer and Nords are some of the most popular races in TES.  Even if the other two factions band together to fight the Pact, we will still have an imbalance of 60/40.  They won't feasibly be able to anyway since red is dead.  So the only way to actually balance it is to force team balance within the campaigns.  That's all fine and dandy but they could alleviate all of this by starting everyone as neutral and letting them decide as individuals who they want to fight for, if anyone.

"In fact, when I first speculated on the notion of having racials in TESO, it almost looked to me like the arrangement of races per faction seemed to break down in a way where you could read into potential gameplay biases on a faction to faction basis. For example, the Aldmeri Dominion could be squishier overall, but may be capable of dealing higher damage. I don’t know if this is exactly how things will play out, but I could see each faction being defined not only by its lore but by these sorts of gameplay attributes.  Limiting race options allows you to offer distinct and meaningful races for each faction, because you always know what the potential makeup is for that faction, which is much friendlier for balance purposes."

You honestly think these factions are defined by lore?  Have you even read any of the so-called "lore" they've trotted out here to justify the fact that they just grabbed three races in close proximity and smashed them together, then shoe-horned the lore in later?  They also do not have a good balance in terms of archetypes.  Reguard and Orsimer are Warriors and Bretons are Mages.  No thieves for DC.  Altmer are mages and Bosmer and Khajiit are thieves.  No warriors for AD.  EP is the only one that has the three archetypes covered again making them imbalanced.  Granted these limitations have never been concrete in TES but if we're just going by what other TES games have established as racial traits, there it is.

"I can completely appreciate the sense of disappointment I’ve been seeing from gamers, but I have a feeling this is one MMO compromise that may just pay off in the grand scheme of things. It may feel restrictive at first, but perhaps the pros will outweigh the cons once we can jump in and see it all for ourselves. Maybe I’m putting too much faith into Zenimax Online here, but I don’t think we’ve got the full picture just yet. While it’s a subject worth discussing to be sure, I’d encourage anyone who is skeptical at this point to give Zenimax the benefit of the doubt here, at least for now."

If by "pay off" you mean "backfire miserably" then yes, we are in agreement.  Matt Firor and his team are doing the only successful thing they know how to do: make DAOC.

I hope they turn things around, it certainly seems like they are trying but if they want this game to not be become Testanic they have a LOT of work to do on a LOT of fronts.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Entinerint

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by kostoslav
What makes CU a Titan? In this stage CU is a make believe story.

This is what I am feeling. We know so little about this game. Hard to make such a vs thread off of paper hype. Seems silly in a way.

True, but I'm just asking which has people more excited or interested, not whether one is vaporware or not.

Don't you think those two questions are linked?

People may not be interested in vaporware. (Personally i don't).

Right, so then they would vote for ESO and explain why in the comments.  This isn't rocket science guys.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by kostoslav
What makes CU a Titan? In this stage CU is a make believe story.

This is what I am feeling. We know so little about this game. Hard to make such a vs thread off of paper hype. Seems silly in a way.

True, but I'm just asking which has people more excited or interested, not whether one is vaporware or not.

Apologies for the double thread, putting it here is a much better solution for sure.  Should have thought of that in the first place /derp.

Thanks to Varross for taking care of it.

Originally posted by Wakygreek

Originally posted by Entinerint

Originally posted by Wakygreek
Duplicate thread, please close this down / edit* same post different forum

It's in both to find a concensus without confirmation bias.

Hrm, guess it should just go to the main general discussion since it deals with two games, huh?

I didnt realize it was in a different forum, I thought it was double posted that was my bad. But yeah I think this would be best put in the general discussion forum. My 2 cents

I'll see about petitioning a moderator about it.

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Entinerint

Originally posted by topographic

I don't think we should compare a fully-funded game that is playable with an unfunded game that is essentially "on paper" except for a questionable tech demo and some other videos that are nothing more then PowerPoint slides.

It's a little early for a comparison.

Fair enough, was just curious to see how people were feeling at this stage.

 How does wording such as Rigid class system vs A well-rounded design seem like a balanced setup?  Seems like you are biasing this in favor of ESO.

Am I wrong?  I'll for sure edit it if there's evidence to the contrary.

Also those aren't comparative.  The Well-rounded design is compared with CU's PvP focus, not with the class system.  Well-rounded isn't necessarily a good thing, some people prefer a focused design, instead of a jack-of-all-trades.  I'll change the wording, to jack-of-all-trades.

EDIT: done