Originally posted by GabrielPapaK

Originally posted by Metanol

I used to play FoM back in it's early days.And while the game had some very great ideas, the mindless grind (as a LED officer at least) was just terrible and the whole combat was so derpy, which it still is.

If they made the combat more tactical, slower and deadly, I would be willing to give FoM another try. But without improved combat, no way. I don't want run and gun arcade shooters where you just spam medkit button as soon as you get hit. I want tactics, teamwork and realistic engagements fitting to the setting at hand.

Would be nice to have more tactics and more realistic combat, but there is always one problem. The fact that the game is an open world, if it was realistic, "ganking" would be way to easy. Only way to get balance would be getting zones that are somewhat "safe" with LED turrets, but now that all factions are erased and its left to the players, realistic combat is just impossible. 

Tactical combat is somewhat utilized though. Depends where you fight.

My apologies, I'm not talking about full on realism here, we don't want FoM to be a milsim, right? I'm talking more along the lines, "you can't sprint and bounce around while trying to hit something". I mean, look at the gunplay of other scifi shooters; Nuclear Dawn, Blacklight: Retribution and Natural Selection 2.

If we had moving and firing mechanics of any games I just listed in FoM, I'd probably be playing and paying.

I used to play FoM back in it's early days.And while the game had some very great ideas, the mindless grind (as a LED officer at least) was just terrible and the whole combat was so derpy, which it still is.

If they made the combat more tactical, slower and deadly, I would be willing to give FoM another try. But without improved combat, no way. I don't want run and gun arcade shooters where you just spam medkit button as soon as you get hit. I want tactics, teamwork and realistic engagements fitting to the setting at hand.

Best PvP in a "MMO" ever in my opinion? Guild Wars 1. Then again, it's not an MMO if we go into details...

After that Guild Wars 1? In order from "best to worst": Rift, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan.

Guild Wars 1 and Rift just stand out with the amount of character customization, while Warhammer Online and Age of Conan were very restricted once you had picked a class. Same goes for DAOC.

Long story short? I hate locked classes and love versatility, in Rift you never knew wether that Rogue on the horizon was a healer, an "assassin" or maybe just some sort of an archer? Same went for Clerics and you couldn't even be sure that Warriors were always melees. And now Mages don't have to be ranged, there's a melee soul for them too.

Originally posted by DavisFlight

You shouldn't have expected a good MMO from a game that, a year ago, was going to be a singleplayer game.

Sadly Neverwinter from Cryptic was never meant to be a singleplayer game. Not even a year ago when they had the old website up with six+ classes presented.

Originally posted by Wizardry

DDO was a weak effort and this game imo is again a cheap effort.I played DDO for about two days and deleted it,NW i couldn't last but a few hours because i see all the same cheap trends i see from games now.

I am just baffled how little immersion people want from games.All this is is a follow the sparkly path and don't worry about anything around you.I saw it with my own eyes,players just run through quests in a straight linear path.

The buildings are fake,nothing but static structures with no movers,no insides a real lazy effort.NPC's are again meaningless,they dotted them in town to make it look busy but since you can't interact witrh them at all,might as well not waste the  time.

DDO as is NW is exactly what you expect from f2p and looks and plays like a single player console game.

 

 

For me both DDO and Guild Wars 1 have been the most immersive "MMOs" ever. The storytelling, the quests and the freedom of choise (concerning gameplay mechanics) has given more immersion than what WoW, Vanguard or EQ2 ever did for me.

In DDO you have variety in quests and you can build any sort of character you want within the given ruleset. In Guild Wars 1 you have an amazing story (Prophecies) and quite a lot of freedom in character developement. Both also have incredible areas to explore - absolutely loved those "open/explorable" instances in DDO and Guild Wars 1 just otherwise had a huge world.

Also, if we look at just the necessary keys what both games require... well, I don't see how anyone could play DDO on any console (controller/gamepad)

PS. No other RPG has done climbing or swimming as well as DDO did. With your skills affecting both and the ability to hang onto stuff etc. Also, sneaking in DDO beats any WoW or EQ2 clone and in my opinion the actiony combat beats Neverwinter and GW2 by a stretch. If you prefer a heavier set of rules, that is.

The only bad thing in DDO was that it was Eberron. I did love the combat and the mechanics otherwise, though it is sad to see it fall to the min-maxing crowd, but as always, that is to be expected. Of course this dosn't matter a bit when you're playing with friends and just having fun.

But, come to think of it, Eberron wasn't all bad. There are indeed some unique things, such as elves doing necromancy all around and truely interesting drow, at least I much prefer this drow over the Forgotten Realms one. But the steam/magic-punk of Eberron does suck and thus, I would've rather took any other setting, from Greyhawk to Dragonlance. But everything else what DDO does makes it worth playing.

PS. I very much preferred the animations and the combat skills of DDO compared to Neverwinter...

Originally posted by stevebombsquad

Originally posted by Metanol

We've been ranting about 4th edition since it's release. I mean, I would've gladly even took AD&D ruleset ala Baldur's Gate -series, but... yeah. 4th edition is the most criticized release what I know of so far. And I doubt the "Next" will turn any better.

However! I do think that Neverwinter by Cryptic would be a better game if we even had To hit rolls and AC properly implemented.

 

Currently playing Pathfinder once a month, but I do think that I enjoyed D&D 3.5e more.

I prefer the AD&D rules....both 1st and 2nd to all others. I think 3.5 was just too rule intensive and Pathfinder just added to that. Lately I have been playing Barbarians of Lemuria with my son who is 8 years old. I love the rules because they are simple and are open to lots of good roleplaying. 

Mhm, I can understand and I approve of that completely. Great! Truely! No sarcasm.

I personally enjoy 3.5e because of all the rules! The feats, the skills and so on, but lets not go more in depth with the topic. Now, I wish my dad would've played D&D with me...

We've been ranting about 4th edition since it's release. I mean, I would've gladly even took AD&D ruleset ala Baldur's Gate -series, but... yeah. 4th edition is the most criticized release what I know of so far. And I doubt the "Next" will turn any better.

However! I do think that Neverwinter by Cryptic would be a better game if we even had To hit rolls and AC properly implemented.

Currently playing Pathfinder once a month, but I do think that I enjoyed D&D 3.5e more.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

nothing you said makes D&D, D&D to me.. D&D to me is about the stories, the lore, and the dungeon diving. If people can look past their preconceived notions of what D&D should and shouldn't be there is a lot of lore in this game and a fun dungeon diving game with an extremely robust dungeon maker tool. It's nothing everything i'd hope for in a MMO or even a D&D game but all in all its a fun experience travelling through the forgotten realms.

Mhm, that's the beauty of D&D, you see! Something for everyone.

Storytelling and the setting have always been -very- important to me too, but.. As I said, the writers bent Forgotten Realms over and ravaged it with a thirty feet spiked pole. Come on, spell plague and crap and all the stupid changes to lore what once was so amazing.

By the way, talking about storytelling. You say that "nothing I said makes D&D D&D..." Well... Choises aren't part of the storytelling? I understand a linear story, I do, and I approve. But at least give me the illusion of choise, or even better, give me the basic alignment choises.

But then there's the side of tactical combat, what is just amazing in D&D 3.5e. All those little rules... Shame that they've been only included in one computer RPG up to date, that being Temple of Elemental Evil. (But Neverwinter Nights -series handles the combat exceptionally well, the first one especially was just beautiful!) Yes, I want my attack of oppoturnities, defensive fighting, grappling, charge actions, deal nonlethal damage etc. And the whole game is based around that lovely D20! I mean, we cant even make all those dirty jokes if we dont see the die somewhere!

And because we're talking about tactical combat, I also want freedom, to create what characters I wish. I want my rogue/wizards who act as bruisers, wielding greatswords. I want druids what can bend to any "role" at a day's notice! I want rogue/fighters acting as my "tanks"! I want racial disadvantages, bonuses and all the restrictions what make sense. As I said, alignments, cleric domains, class restictions, multiclassing... SPELL LISTS! I also want weapon reaches and "threatened" ranges, which are only shown in TOEE again.

Then again, I also want the massive skill and feat selection of 3.5e.. Even in it's restricted form (ala NWN) it was divine, but the full list would be even better. Yes, there was use for every skill in NWN 2, no matter what you took, it would be of use - of course, some more than others.

And dungeon delving? Come on, what is dungeon delving without d20 and tactical combat? Now that I think about it, I'm starting to miss those narrow, uncomfourtably tight dungeons of Baldur's Gate 1 and Icewind Dale. :/

Originally posted by Aerowyn

It has a very D&D feel.. i dunno why people bitch so much its not D&D as the game feels like D&D and has lots of familiar characters and names

Where's the D&D feel? Why is my character magically restricted from using different weapons or armour? What happened to multiclassing? Where's the d20? (I demand a d20 somewhere, either in a combat log ala NWN, BG, TOEE or on the screen like in DDO!)

Where are the alignments? What about alignment specific restrictions; Holy etc. weapons? Why do half-orcs and dwarves worship the same deity as elves? Why dont the classes have customization concerning playstyle (no, you can't turn your rogue into a tank [actually, not sure about that] nor can you make your cleric a melee.)

Where are choises? It's again "Do quest" or "Don't do quest"? Not very D&D.

Where's Armor Class and TO HIT rolls? Why are we taking all this damage and then spamming heals? Wasn't it the point to always kind of... you know.. AVOID taking damage? Yes, there's dodging, but there's no point to dodge as rogue if you have a cleric putting HoTs on you. :/

And most important; What the hell happened to Forgotten Realms in 4th edition? :(

Originally posted by codejack

They should scrap it and start over.

A brilliant suggestion! :)

However... I'm going to be humble this time and give Neverwinter another try. The beta left me with very negative feelings and I doubt these will be changed with the "release". So, I'm probably going to stomp it down to ground and just continue playing DDO and you know, Neverwinter Nights.

I can warm heartedly suggest Dragon Age Origins, it's a solid singleplayer RPG, but like many others (older pc gamers), I advice you to avoid Dragon Age 2 like plague.

However, if you want a better RPG experience with party management and interaction, I would really suggest Neverwinter Nights 2. If you want solo goodness, then The Witcher 1 & 2.

Thank the Gods that I never had to pay for Dragon Age -series... I certainly don't consider it worth even five euros.

Originally posted by Vidir
non since that is allways bad ,like making games from movies.

What's with this? The most financially successful MMO was made after/based on RTS games with RPG elements? Yes, we all know the elephant in the room, the one I'm bringing up by name now; WoW.

Then I would even say that my favourite MMO bases itself around a pen and paper RPG.

You are right about the movie part though... can't think of a single game made after a movie which would've been good. As in, based on a movie. I think we all saw how badly they butchered Aliens:CM?

I would certainly add my vote to Witcher too! As long as we don't let players become Witchers, but restrict them to playing regular humans and non-humans. Could also include sorcerers and sorceresses as playable classes, and would be awesome to have the different human factions at war (as they always seem to be in the lore [books + games] You know, Nilfgaardians used elves as suicide troops and all that, so you should also have mixed races in some factions.. now if we could also include a social ranking system!)

Then again my inner geek screams for a proper remake of Jagged Alliance and Neverwinter Nights, both which would work as MMOs with more or less work put into them...

Now I have decided what I would want most though.. Mount & Blade!

If we go by the sheer number of choises, then TSW certainly has the most. Then I would argue against TSW's gameplay however, and even consider Rift better in every way, even with less customization there.

Now, some people would say that GW2 has "great" customization character build wise, but I found it way too restricted and limited, unlike Guild Wars 1, which was just amazing. But it wouldnt've worked in PvP in this "massive" scale, so, the whole game was dumbed down.

Come to think of it, Guild Wars 1 had some brilliant and unique multiclassing mechanics. You picked your "main" class and then your second class later. Your main class determined your armor proficiency and your unique attribute (warriors had strenght, rangers had expertise while mesmers got fast casting and elementalists energy storage), which really opened up some unique builds. Fast-casting mesmer/eles (instant meteor shower) or ranger/necromancers with touch spells were all nice to play! Not to mention real minion masters, not this GW2 stuff where minions feel more like utility on the side.

But! If I were free to name the best character customization from an MMO (gameplay wise), I would certainly stick to DDO. Why? Because it's D&D 3.5e. Well, close to that anyway. That means you can multiclass three classes (out of 13) and there's real variation to what classes can do. Sorcerers are rarely the same, unless built for similar nuking. Bards can be completely different from one another and same goes for pretty much every class, except barbarians. Greatsword wielding bards or archery focused rogues, it's all fair game.

You have strict restrictions (barbarians and bards cannot multiclass with paladins or monks due to alignment restrictions), but you still have more than enough freedom in the rules. Rogue/Wizards, Paladin/Fighters or Barbarian/Bards are none unheard of. Now, min-maxers might whine if you do something unique, but that's why DDO is a game to be played with a tight-knight party of friends. Or even just two to three friends, filling rest of the party with hirelings.

I'm not going to even comment on EVE, since I sadly do not have real experience with that. And if we're talking about RPGs, then Planetside has no place in this discussion either. Now, Global Agenda is on the very edge.. but I'd give that game some credit too.

Originally posted by ZedTheRock
Compared to WoW not much.  The 2H attack animations are very bad in Rift, Dual Wield isn't much better.  The combat is fairly bad as well.  Everything else about the game is an almost identical port of WoW.  If you want to play Rift I would say play something better like WoW. 

I would disagree with this post. Rift certainly is better for me than WoW, in every possible way, from aesthetics and animations to gameplay related design decisions.

In my opinion, Rift's class system stood out quite nicely and the game certainly had polish. Shame that it was lame high fantasy with over-epic tones and no innovation in gameplay mechanics. Then again, the no innovation isn't that bad, I certainly had a blast playing my Bard/ranger mix.

But do I think that Rift is worth playing for? Sadly, no.