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All Posts by Siug

All Posts by Siug

54 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last
1067 posts found
Originally posted by sketocafe
Don't worry about me, OP. Any company who charges me money for EU servers located in America will never get a god damned dime from me again.

Oh stop trolling please. EU servers are in Europe for months already.

Originally posted by DMKano
 

If you were a Dev studio owner - how would you deal with market saturation and rapid playerbase shifts from one game to another?

 

I don't know but maybe you Trion guys can explain this to us ignorants  Also, you can explain how there are p2p and even f2p games without p2w cash shop. I haven't played Tera and never will but some people gave that one as an example of a cs that is not p2w like AA's. 

Originally posted by DMKano

 

The gear you'll end up with will be very competitive even with those who've spent a LOT in the cash shop.

  

At least you admit now that AA cash shop gives advantages and therefore it's completely p2w in my eyes.

Originally posted by Swids2010

Its quite sad how many people have no understanding on what pay to win is and how easy it is thrown around at the moment you can generally say 80% of people on this site that accuse a game of being pay to win have never actually played a game that's pay to win.

For example my understanding is everything you can buy in AA cash shop can be earned in game. This means all you are paying for is convenience you get everything faster than the non paying person but that non paying person over time can still achieve what you have which means you just got it faster. It should be call PFC ( pay for convenience )

Now onto actual pay to win games and I will explain to you the difference so about 4 years ago my mates asked me to try a game with them now I was willing to because there was quite a few of my circle of friends giving It ago and to be honest we had a lot of fun with it to start with until we started meeting people that had dumped money into the cash shop, now in this game you could buy armour and weapons from the cash shop that were unattainable through playing the game these armour and weapons were so superior to anything in game that they basically turned the payer into a one man army I was playing this with 7 people and we in some of the best gear attainable through playing the game could barely scratch him and that was if we got the jump if he did we were all dead in seconds. The cash shop effectively turned you into a type of GOD player over anyone not paying loads into cash shop. Pay 2 win

For me is rather sad to see how many are willingly go though all this acrobatics to convince themselves and others that a game revolving around cash shop with p2w elements is absolutely ok. 10 years ago no one could imagina an MMO where you needed "points" to open loot bags and those "points" being sold in CS. It's like a mobile game where you either wait for a week for the upgrade to finish or buy "gems" to finish it instantly. People willing to open their waller will win. It's just sad that some MMOs are going that way and no semantics can make it any better. "How can you "win" in an MMO?" Lmao

Originally posted by Sukiyaki
Pretty dumb video. Just a  closeminded and ignorant rant from whomever wrote the script for the show.

It doesn't describe F2P or Fremium at all even though it claims to be. It describes backhanded cash shop driven game design. Which even if deluded/dishonest fanboys of certain P2P games want to make your believe is not exclusive to a F2P or Fremium business model and prevented by paying the publisher a regular fee.

In fact its pretty stupid to claim such a thing with the most popular P2P online game aka WoW milking user with exactly the same, various similar and even worse methods.

South Park makes a lot of blunt and sublimial references to WoW. Would not be surprised culprit of this forced scene to trash and missinform about Fremium/F2P products comes from the same corner.

This episode is very accurate because the whole f2p/p2w concept is based on behavioral glitches and impulse. For me f2p/p2w is pure garbage and the worst thing happened to the MMO genre.

Originally posted by Thestrain

 

3.) Enchanting and Alchemy dailies are not working.

 

Enchanting dailies are definitely working.

Originally posted by Stormbow

Kids today...

No one "forced" you to do anything.  That was 100% your choice.  End of discussion.

To be honest this "kid" argument is incredibly thin.

Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by Siug
 

Yup and that's why we have this p2w shite all over our games. I just hate f2p/p2w model period. I'm not against AA per se but I'm firmly against p2w because I like MMOs and I don't want them to be turned into complete garbage. In Asia they can do whatever they like because I don't play Asian games but each p2w game coming to Western market is a big nope for me.

 

I understand you as a player hate F2P - but put yourself in the shoes of a game studio.

Consider the following scenario (which is actually very common, and reason for shift to cash shop model)

 

You have a game that is P2P and your subs are declining - you own the studio - you have 150 employees that have worked their asses off for 5 years to build the game.

After 6 months of success, the subs are declining - you do free trials, new content, even an expansion - the things pick up for a bit, but the subs are nowhere near the numbers they were in the first 6 months and they STILL continue to drop.

What do you do?

Putting out more content costs money, another expansion takes 6+ months a lot more money in the meanwhile the subs are declining.

 

Shut the game down, let all of those folks lose their jobs - OR do you try to make it profitable.

 

P2P model weaknesses 

1. Barrier of entry (lose out on players who would spend LESS than sub fee per month)

2. Hard pay ceiling (lose out on money from players that can afford to pay MORE than sub fee)

3. it's easier to lose players than to gain players - because of barrier of entry (a returning player will be hesitant to come check the game out later because he must pay sub fee again)

 

F2P fixes all the above issues - it has proven to turn profits around for games that were on the slippery slope

 

So again - it's so easy to just look at it from "gamers" perspective - from a business perspective - F2P is a godsend 

 

You have a lot of good points but I don't agree with f2p being a godsend  It's actually about the balance - I can tolerate CS selling cosmetics and such but selling gameplay advantages is a big nope for me. Also, I'm a free market fundamentalist and I think that bad games and games that went bad deserve to die. For example I'm waiting for a good Middle Earth MMO for years already because I loved Lotro but it went p2w selling stat tomes and whatnot. I grew up with Tolkien's books and it makes me sad seeing Lotro as it is these days.

Originally posted by DMKano

OP - most people who are yelling P2W have no understanding of ArcheAge's monetization - heck I doubt how many of them have played enough to even understand anything about ArcheAge.

 

As long as everything can be bought with in-game gold (including cash shop credits) - the entire P2W argument has no leg to stand on.

 

Look, I play ESO because it's fun after I returned and it's p2p. The moment Zenimax adds cash shop where players can buy good gear etc with real money I'm gone forever. Also, I couldn't imagine playing a game where I need some kind of "points" to open a loot bag and those "points" being sold in cash shop. Simple as that. 

As I've said before I'm not against AA but I'm against p2w shite that is ruining games. 

Originally posted by DMKano
 

This category owns in every game - because they can just buy end-game characters fully geared from players for ridiculous money and actually learn how to play them well because they have nothing but time.

Someone purchasing the best geared player in WoW or TESO or Wildstar - for a LOT of cash -  is that not P2W?

 

 

If I remember correctly buying accounts is illegal in those games. AA cash shop is legal and anyone with a fat wallet can buy a win like shown in this vid. Of course you can grind like in every single p2w MMO but whales have advantage over you anyway. Btw there are a lot p2w games I've once loved. Like Lotro, TSW (after they implemented RNG goodie boxes) etc. So it's not only AA but imho AA is a complete p2w game. Want to skip tedious grind? Sure, cough out some cash. Want to open that loot bag? Sure, cough out some cash to buy a potion. It is p2w. 

Originally posted by farbege

It would be also a good sign IF the game was really P2W cause casual plyers with a job can compete against the no job basement  dwellers but unfortunately io dont see its p2w.

I'm casual but I never wanted to buy advancement from a cash shop. I know some people who run business, working 12+ hours a day and still play hardcore and well because they want it to be like that. They are not basement dwellers.

Being able to buy advancements from a cash shop is pure p2w. Of course there are different levels of p2w but AA is one of the worst in Western market because your sub doesn't cover cash shop goodies. There are other examples too but AA is a prime example of a p2w MMO imho where you can win other players/time spending cash.

Originally posted by DMKano

Have people forgotten that game dev studios are businesses?

It's about making money, it's always been about making money.

Over time - they become better at it - as players have evolved - so have the dev studios.

 

 

 

Yup and that's why we have this p2w shite all over our games. I just hate f2p/p2w model period. I'm not against AA per se but I'm firmly against p2w because I like MMOs and I don't want them to be turned into complete garbage. In Asia they can do whatever they like because I don't play Asian games but each p2w game coming to Western market is a big nope for me.

Originally posted by OhhPaigey
So what? Literally 11 year olds on CoD can take servers offline rofl.

I'm 37 years old with degrees in law and political science and I cannot bring servers down. Either I've wasted most of my life or there is a problem.

Originally posted by cerulean2012

Really??? These threads are getting tiresome.  How many AA is or is not p2w threads are there going to be?

Enough already, find one of the many aa p2w threads and post there.

Actually we need these threads until there are P2W games. P2W is the worst thing in MMO genre.

Edit: I'm not against AA, I'm against P2W crap that threatens to kill my hobby.

Originally posted by fyerwall

"Pay to Win" is any system in a game that allows an immediate advantage and/or the ability to bypass content/grind via real world money transaction. Sure, you can't 'win' in an MMO, but when you can whip out your Visa card and purchase away several hours of a task, you are purchasing an advantage. 

Winning does not just mean beating everyone else. Winning also means to obtain a goal before others or faster than others. The argument that "One cannot win in an MMO, therefore it's not pay to win" is incorrect.

P2W well defined. 

Originally posted by DMKano
 

 

Without F2P the vast majority of MMO games would be shut down - there would be very few MMOs to play, and those that can't or are not willing to spend $15 wouldn't get a chance to play at all.

 

Actually that would have been great. There are too many MMOs on the market and most of these are complete garbage. With F2P they continue to linger, some holding up great IPs (Lotro etc). With p2w this got even worse because most of the devs now waste their power devising schemes to screw whales. Buy pots to open loot bags my arse. 10 years ago no one could even imagine such crap here in the West.  

Originally posted by TiamatRoar
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by Siug
 

In my humble opinion we are quite near to consensus because the majority even on mmorpg.com considers AA to be p2w. The Flat Earth Society also exists so there are always people opposing the majority and it's quite normal. 

Funny thing you mention the Flat Earth belief - because for 100s of years that was believed due to a consensus, hehe

Point - just because it's a consensus doesn't mean it's true , nor right.

 

Actually, most people believed the earth was round quite early in human history.  Easiest way to figure it out was the fact that when something goes off into the distance (particularly ships sailing away), it goes downards.

Sumerians depicted our solar system with spheres, and so did many advanced civilizations. There was a period when human civilization moved backwards though and that's why we had to rediscover a lot of things. Imho MMO genre moved backwards with f2p/p2w.

Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by nilden

He spent over $12,000 on the game. That's over 66 years of subscription time at $15 a month. His rant about bringing out the credit card and the fact that ArcheAge is Pay 2 Win is pretty much obvious to anyone. Claiming ArcheAge is not P2W is like saying the Earth is flat, some people might think that it's true but that doesn't change the fact that it isn't.

What did he win?

How do you "win" a MMO?

 

You know he still loses 1v1 in Arena - so if he is still losing - not really P2W - because if that's what he is using as his criteria he should be winning 100% of the time.

So yeah about that......

until there is a 100% clear consensus and a definition of what it means to "win" in a MMO - the entire concept of P2W is invalid period.

 

In my humble opinion we are quite near to consensus because the majority even on mmorpg.com considers AA to be p2w. The Flat Earth Society also exists so there are always people opposing the majority and it's quite normal. 

Originally posted by Sephiroso
Originally posted by JackFrosty

I find it hilarous that DMKano hasn't come out of hiding since page 2 to try and defend his stance which has been proven hilariously wrong :)

 

/popcorn

Actually it isn't. But that's besides the point with people like you who have no interest in actually backing up their claims its pretty clear your mind is already made up at this point.

What's the problem? My mind is made up as well and I consider AA to be one of the worst p2w MMOs currently on Western market. It's like a mobile game where you either wait for 10 days while the building upgrades or buy gems to finish upgrade instantly. 

Won't touch anything even remotedly connected to Trion. 
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