Originally posted by Asiak

And I have been reading about EQ2 and its,  excelent crafting system and was going to try it.  So i'm immensly curious as to how EQ2s crafting has been cut to pieces?

EQ2's crafting used to make you create all the ingredients for the final product, and then make the product. For instance, you needed to shape the metal into a bar, then make the solvent needed to soften the metal, then combine those combines into a final product, so it was a 4 step process for EACH item to make.

Now all you need is raw materials, and then hit the create, and play a little whack-a-mole game to get a final product. Also, there is only ONE final product, where there used to be 3 levels of quality within the same product. Like "crude sword", "sword", or "pristine sword". Now there is just "sword".

While the original system was a bit much, I think they changed it too much. Taking out a couple steps would've been fine, but now it's just ONE step. No biggey, didn't break the game for me.

Vanguard's crafting is very good, and Horizons crafting was excellent. SWG and UO's crafting was quite good as well.

Not all games are like this. Just because "WoW did it", doesn't mean that's the way it is. In fact, it's one of the biggest flaws of WoW, among other blatant stupidity.

Move

Originally posted by Waterlily

Originally posted by bahamut1

 

 In fact, WoW has never originalized anything.

I would hold off beating the "WoW sucks" drum.

EQ2 has 50K subs. EQ2 couldn't even fill up Badlands on a WoW server.

SoE is like an ant in the MMO industry, NCsoft and Blizzard are 2 giants who have to watch their step or they would crush it.

And learn to spell before you start your crusade against a successful MMO company. "Originalized"?.. Christ.

EQ2 has more subs than LoTRO... FACT.

Originally posted by Waterlily

Originally posted by bobfish

Actually illegal drug trafficking is a billion dollar industry now, to the point where many criminal organisations are actively getting involved.

Drug trafficking was started by players, SoE is just following player demand.

 

See how easy that was?

SoE sux.

HAHAHAHAHAHA OMG, are you serious? Really serious?

You're comparing RMT with drugs? Something that kills people...

Vanguard, no contest as far as level based rpg goes

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by bahamut1

WoW has a large subscription because of advertising, accessibility, and name brand. It isn't "better" or "worse" than any other mainstream MMO on the market. Everything else is just conjecture and post count, that's it.

 

That name brand that you so quickly dismiss has a long history of releasing high quality games that are fun to play.  Something that is very lacking in the MMO genre at the moment.  Most of the bigger companies have terrible reputations for making mistake after mistake....

There is a reason WoW not only attracts so many players, but also RETAINS them.  I have to say that Blizzard has done many things much better than most of the other MMOs out right now.  That goes pretty much across the board.  It isn't the best at every single aspect, but it rates very highly in just about every one.

 

When compared side by side WoW does do most aspects better than the next game.  Not every single one, but the majority yes.  That is why the game excels and so many others fall short of expectations.

 

When game companies start caring enough about the games they launch then the market will even out subscriber wise.  Until then there is are many reasons one game rules the market.

 

LOL Whatever, +1 post count, grats. EVERY aspect of WoW is done better somewhere else. In fact, WoW has never originalized anything. Everything they added to the game was copied from someone else.

Death Penalty - retarded

Graphics - mediocre (at best)

Gameplay - simplistic and mundane (monotonous)

Performance - Good - My point earlier in accessibility, but, at the cost of graphics and gameplay.

Service - same as everyone else

Updates and timelines - Worst in the industry

This thread is a complete fail. Not a single one of you know WTF you're talking about. Play it or don't play it, but ALL companies (nice of you to pick SoE when all companies are doing it) will do whatever it takes to make money. Whether you like it or not RMT makes money. LOTS of money. Until you can post some numbers and proof, stfu.

WoW has a large subscription because of advertising, accessibility, and name brand. It isn't "better" or "worse" than any other mainstream MMO on the market. Everything else is just conjecture and post count, that's it.

LOL sun

I reinstalled EQ recently for the Legends celebration. I admit, I felt a bit sentimental. Went back to all my old haunts and checked out the revamped zones. It also totally reminded me how incredibly docile and spoiled we've become. Where you actually have to think about where you're going and how to get there. Also, I was more careful as I realize the death penalty and that grey mobs still attack you, and actually have a chance to kill you. It's amazing how bad we get when you're not pushed to excel.

However, I'm older now, and have gotten too used to the conveniences and just don't have the time to put in the effort. Back in the day, this was the game and I enjoyed it thoroughly but I'll stick with EQ2 and VG. A little misinformation earlier in the thread as EQ2 has about twice the playerbase of EQ. It was very nice to run down memory lane for a while.

Originally posted by ethion

I've played them all quite a bit.  I like group based PvE and play kinda casually.

My preferance is

1. EQ2

2. Vanguard

3. Wow

some general thoughts

Vanguard is close to number 1 and with the next gu I might change.

All 3 are very good games.  eq2 and wow are very polished. 

combat system vg best, wow next, eq2 last

VG is the best, EQ2 next, WoW sucks

quests eq2 best, wow next, vg last

Agreed, although there really is not much difference between VG and WoW quests.

dungeons vg best

Agreed

raids wow best

VG, EQ2, and I really don't even consider WoW raids "raids". It's more like watching a cutscene, pressing a couple buttons, and then loot. In fact, there's no contesteds in WoW AT ALL, how stupid lame is that. LOL NO Contesteds...

crafting vanguard, eq2, wow

Kinda agree, although VG's is just a tiny bit extreme.

variety of things to do vg, eq2, wow

Agreed, although, EQ2 would barely edge out because there are more people. Plus, the events and updates.

pvp wow

Who cares, there's no contesteds. LOL What are you fighting for, weiner size?

openness vg

Agreed

WoW is a fine game, but why play a cheap copy when I can play a much better original and get all the new innovations first, before they water it down and add it to their game 2 yrs later.

The best game that everyone copies is not even on the list. Heretic... :)

I didn't say it was wrong or right. We HAVE to accept it, because it is the ONLY choice atm.

Only thing we can hope for is a game that is LESS unfinished than the others and not as noticable to common gamers. There is a point of reasonable loss that developers have to meet for development costs and timelines. Eventually, the bottom line will force them to release regardless of the quality.

http://www.gamespot.com/search.html?type=11&stype=all&tag=search%3Bbutton&qs=patch#download

Yeah, Call of Duty sucks, so does Warcraft. RPG games are more prone, but usually the good companies will have a patch out before the bulk of customers get the product.

---

Originally posted by Emotions

I can't believe that people still justify games that are not finished and still being released.
its like making something half done and then expect to get payed for it.
You ask me to make you a house and i make one but without a roof. Would you pay for that? Its seems to me A LOT of people won't mind it. They would say something like: hey lets wait another few months in the hope someone fixes the roof.
If you can't finish up a game @ release date then postpone the game. Yes i know game company's don't have the money for postponing every time. But then make a better plan or cut back on the content. (make less levels or something like that) 
I keep getting this feeling its the most normal thing there is with mmo's. WTF?

---

 
ALL MMO's release unfinished. Most SP's even release unfinished. <Mod edit>

Originally posted by Noktaris

2. All the dungeons are instanced like WoW

This is completely incorrect.

 

Originally posted by Da1e

Sorry about this, but I need to ask a few questions about EQ2, and hell knows this is the place to do it =p

bearing in mind the only mmo i have realllllly played is WoW, the questions may appear slightly stupid

1. what is the PvP like? is there an assortment of PvP places / locations and games, like battlegrounds? I thought the wow PvP battlegrounds were really good, is there something similar? with ranks?

The PvP servers are good vs. evil, and FFA within 8 levels. The Arenas exist, but sit empty most of the time. People that want PvP are usually on those servers, or playing something else.

2. are the dungeons dungeons or are they instanced? like vanguard or like WoW?

Both. There are instanced dungeons, and there are shared dungeons.

3. are there a nice selection of dungeons? like so there are enough to do one every couple of levels, but not so many that you could miss many... would it be possible for an average gamer to play them all through their leveling?

There are lots of dungeons of every level and skill. You can hit all the dungeons through your leveling career.

4. what are the armour sets like? tier armour? pvp armour then pve? and crafting?

Tier armor in this game is by level, like Tier 1 armor is 1-9, Tier 2 is 10-19, and so on. You don't really hit armor sets until KoS, which is the 60-69 range, except for crafted armor, which is setted at all levels. There are different levels of quality within each tier, Treasured, Mastercrafted, Legendary, Fabled and Mythical. Handcrafted is the same quality as Treasured.

Treasured is the normal armor you find everywhere, normal mobs, normal crafting, and normal questing. Mastercrafted is crafted pieces made from the rare harvests. Legendary is from dungeons, boss mobs, and long quest lines requiring several steps and a lot of time to complete. Fabled is from raiding, very rare boss mobs, and very difficult quest lines. Mythical is extremely rare quests, and events, and only a few people on any server have Mythical.

5. what are the different crafting alternatives? and are they simple, or complex like VG?

There are 9 crafting alternatives and it involves one combine with a small whack a mole game to keep up the quality. It is not even nearly as complex as VG. There's Armorer, Weaponsmith, Tailor, Woodworker, Carpenter, Provisioner, Jeweler, Sage, and Alchemist.

6. good community? how many people roughly on the servers? medium pop?

Most people are nice and helpful. Pretty good population for summer time.

7. are there cool mounts / flying mounts?

There are no flying mounts, and I doubt that there ever will be. There are horses, magic carpets, rhinos, and wargs.

8. easy to run, but with reasonable graphics?

For an up to date system, you can run on balanced settings quite easily.

9. if I bought the rise of Nanak or whatever it is called, am I set for expansions at this current time?

RoK includes everything that has been released.

10. basically, is it a fun game? (opinionated I know), but if i liked WoW due to cool armour, sweet instances, big one off bosses like onyxia, raids, PvP, will I like EQ2? Or is there a better game suited from what you hear?

Honestly, there really isn't that big a difference from WoW except graphics. Everything else is just content.

 

Originally posted by JustBe

Originally posted by miagisan

I look a the 3 games like this....having played all 3 extensively

1) WoW - easy game, casual, fun for those who are just looking to be entertained

2) EQ2 - Mix of casual and hardcore, tons of quests and great sotry lines, great environment

3) VG - huge world, great crafting and housing system, seemless, more of an old school feel to it.

 

lol

Yeh VG HUGE boring barren world with noone in it with a pointless housing system and pointless crafting because theres no real player economy in the game and all old school means is buggy and crap.

What makes EQ2 more hardcore than WOW might I ask? It's no harder and has no harsh death penalty and you can solo through the game right to the end if you wanted to and at the end you need groups to do hard raids and atleast with WOW you can do end content PVP which is much harder than anything EQ2 has to offer.

 

You say WOW is fun and casual and fun for those who are looking to be entertained......... so what you play EQ2 and Vanguard to be bored shitless? Cause thats what they did to me and you really just see how crap they are compared to the quality of WOW. Also Casual? That's a playing style and has nothing to do with the game, you can play EQ2 and Vanguard casually if you wanted to and you could play WOW hardcore if you wanted to.

I know from experience that WOW eats up much more fo your time to get anyhting done at end content like Arena PVP and Raids than it does in the other two games.

 

Theres nothing harder about the other 2 games apart from trying to find people cause most people who arn't looking to be sad elitists already worked out WOW is the best of the best.

Never fails, you start a decent thread with good points and intelligent thought and some tool comes along that doesn't know any better. See how he thinks WoW is "the best of the best" (HAHAHA, sorry, I just couldn't write that without laughing), but his attitude in the whole post. Typical of WoW players. The next person that calls EQ2 players elitist will get a eye full of the stupid crap WoW players write.

Originally posted by xephonics

I tried it for the first time like 2 weeks ago.  Uninstalled it within 2 hrs lol.

 

Was too dated for me to even play.  I guess I would have been able to bear it ~5-7 yrs ago, but not now.  It was painful to even look at.

 

I know that is to be expected, I'm just stating my thoughts :P

Believe me, 10 years ago, when EQ first came out it was revolutionary. Noone, and I mean NOONE, had anything like it at all and it was a huge undertaking. New territory that no other company had tried and it was a big risk. Obviously, it worked out as it was a big hit and stood number 1 for 5 or 6 years. Even other MMO's that came out years later came under the realization how daunting it was and it showed companies just how much they'd have to invest into a good mmo.

Your thread is incorrectly named. I guess it just isn't for you. I tried it again after 5 years and was reminded of a lot a places and things I had all but forgotten. MMO's have come a long way, good or bad I guess. I won't be playing it because I'm used to all the conveniences we see in mmos now, but I found your post entertaining. LOL

Originally posted by gillvane1

 One form of progression I really don't like, is doing something over and over to raise a skill. Like shooting my bow, raises my bow skill, or swinging my sword raises my sword skill. That, IMO, is retarded, and very unrealistic. It's just an invite for macros to raise skills, and what's the point of that?

Yeah, it's totally unrealistic to have to practice at something to get better at it...

Repetition is the mainstay of MMO's, welcome to online gaming.