Originally posted by Dento

Originally posted by stylee99

Originally posted by Keushpuppy
When will a game come out with an AC type skill system.

lol. Don't think that will ever happen again, friend. But it was pretty sweet.

 

Yeah it was, Man those were the days. I loved that game.

I can't seem to find anything any other game to hooked me like AC did

Yeah, so I went out with my battle-mage, and hooked up with some other battle-mages, and we had this battle-mage group and hunted around, and we were like, hey, let's make a battle-mage guild, but then we saw the other battle-mage guilds, so we decided to play a class system game where at least a few people were different instead of one universal class...

J/K

[quote]We believe 'third-generation' is defined by evolutionary gameplay with unique revolutionary features; such as monsters vs. players PvP in LOTRO, public-questing and the ability to level from 1 to max level purely through RvR in WAR, and Age of Conan's six-point locational damage system and the ability to lop off your opponent's heads (animated).

'course I could go on, but why? Vanguard promised nothing in the way of 'revolutionary' from the start and put up the 'third-generation is represented solely by time released' defense before the game even released in the lackluster state that it was. [/quote]

While I'm not going to get into the 3rd generation discussion here as I'm having a little trouble with it myself, I do have to correct you on these things. While I agree that so far, Vanguard is not really revolutionary, neither is anything you pointed out. In fact, I would be pretty safe in saying that really nothing in the next few years will be revolutionary in gameplay.

PvP monsters, been there, done that over 10 years ago. RvR? Really dude? I really hope you're kidding with this one. And the "six-point locational damage system" blah blah blah, has already been done as well, in fact, much better a long time ago. In fact, the physics were so precise that anywhere your sword touched, it cut, and I mean anywhere, friend, foe, even environment. Hardly revolutionary. Probably why it wasn't very popular because people kept killing their friends.

I seriously doubt we'll really see anything really new for a long time, if ever. Each and every MMO, or any game for that matter, is just rehashed stuff, in a different wrapper, over and over again. Bits and pieces of stuff from one game to another.

Originally posted by Tacola

Originally posted by Cemm
I'm clearly dealing with an especially simple minded person here, but I'll respond to your idiotically regurgitated queries regardless:

[quote]What game are you playing and why are you here again?  And why would you care if Vanguard succeeds or not.  Unless you are again another one whose outcry for help is because Vanguard is taking away your games subs.  Otherwise why care about a game you obviously dont like?[/quote]

I'm currently playing World of Warcraft, but have subscribed to and beta tested numerous games over the years.

I do not care in the slightest whether Vanguard succeeds or not.  I am concerned only with whether the game is improved or not to the point that I will be willing to pay for a subscription.

I am even less concerned about the idea that Vanguard might be 'taking away my games subs'.  Vanguard is a niche product for hardcore gamers.  It was always going to be a niche product for hardcore gamers.  World of Warcraft was designed to appeal to the masses of casual gamers, and it has done that and more as it discovered millions of potential new gamers in the market.  There is no fair comparison that can be made between them.  They are not in competition with each other by any means.

I do not dislike Vanguard, and certainly not obviously so.  I've been thoroughly disappointed with it after looking forward to the game for years, but I'm still hopeful that it might be improved over time and I still consider myself a potential future subscriber.

Lol,  just as a suspected, another WoW troll.  I smelt you a mile away. 

Actually, he answered you in a respectful and truthful manner. Don't just read the "I'm currently playing World of Warcraft" and dismiss him as a troll. He gave his opinion of the graphical integrity of Vanguard and that is that. We don't have to fight over what games we play, or what style we like. There are parts of Vanguard that are awesome graphically, and there are places in the game that lack, well, for lack of a better description, refinement and detail. There are even a lot of places in WoW that lack refinement and are statuesque when there should be more movement. Sometimes you just have to take things with a grain of salt and hope they get better.

I really like Vanguard and currently play it every day. There are a LOT of aspects in it that are great with or without the graphical setting. I also see what a few are saying. I've played WoW before and I hate their graphics, but I totally understand what elements give it the life and belonging they are talking about. It's not a sin to be subjective and call an orange orange, but I can appreciate the taste of the orange. I like the realism in Vanguard over WoW, and I hope everything comes together in a couple months and we can all appreciate a fine piece of work.

It's ok to bash Vanguard, how else will it get any better. If everyone thinks it's perfect, then it won't fire up someone to improve it. Whether we like it or not, it needs improvement, and I'm all for a better experience in my gaming.

While I respect your thoughts and opinions, I do have to agree with the others that this review is quite one-sided. It is quite ok, as I have seen plenty of reviews to the other extreme, and even seen the "Anti-review" garbage that has been posted. With all that in mind, I appreciate your willingness to put yourself "on the line" for this game, however it is possible to be a bit more realistic.

I score with 10 being the best and 1 being the worst.

Chacter models / creation  ~ 9   6

You even admitted the limited hairstyles, and the characters can look the same in a lot of respects. First thing though is the character creation itself. It lags. The character screens shouldn't lag at all. This is the first thing everyone sees when they start the game, and sometimes it lags pretty bad, no matter what system you have. Doesn't give a very good impression if you're lagging while creating your first character. It has been remedied a good amount, but just not enough IMO. 4 hairstyles and 4 faces that all look nearly exactly the same. If you're going to give me 4 different faces, make them completely different. Like one with tattoos, and one with piercings, and one with freckles, and etc. Give me scars and moles, make them different, really different.

Starting Areas ~ 9   7

You already mentioned the learning curve in getting to know the areas. I also want to mention that in some cases quests seem to jump a level or two from one to another. This gives the impression of grinding early in the game. If I have to level before completing my next quest, then that is poor planning. While I agree that some areas are better than others, it seems to me that with only 3 starting areas they should have had all 3 done to level 10 by launch ready or not. It just gives a very poor impression when someone is struggling within their own starting town.

Game Performance ~ 8   6

This really doesn't need my comments. Everyone knows about performance issues in the game. It has improved a hundred fold since launch, but in my opinion, still has a ways to go yet.

Combat ~ 10   9

I pretty much agree with you here. Maybe a little more training in this regard would help, as I am a veteran of MMO's since UO. I can see where a lot of people would be confused early on about what to do when. Another learning curve that really does not have to exist, as combat does get a lot more complicated later on, and some help in this regard early on would help. The disgusting UI doesn't help much, but I understand why it exists as it is almost identical to WoW's. A better UI is really needed badly.

Crafting ~ 8   8

I agree completely. A lot of people won't really realize the importance of the crafting until later and there are higher level crafters. The crafters will make the world, and after some player organized places are in place, it will really shine. There really does need to be a better tutorial as the one in game is terrible and will frustrate a lot of people right off the bat.

Diplomacy ~ 9   9

Diplomacy is brilliant, and I really hope it garners a better role in the game. It really takes SEVERAL levels of it to really show its potential and a lot of people usually quit by then. Also, maybe more variations in use would help. I do like the push to have players work together to change the world they "live" in.

Graphics ~ 10   9

I wouldn't say fantastic, but it is of the better tier of what's out there. There are places I have been that absolutely make my jaw drop in awe. Animations still need some help, but with the improvements in performance, that should subside.

Community ~ 10   8

I really had to think about this as the community is its best asset and worst enemy at the same time. Most everyone in game is very helpful, nice, and quite vocal at times.  I guess it just comes from feelings of being let down over and over again. Defending this game is fine, but to call names and call people WoW carebears is just not needed. The community should welcome all subscribers with open arms, and just play. If they have complaints, let them complain. They have the right to view their opinion of what they like and don't like. While someone who just doesn't like the gameplay will probably leave anyways, those that are "on the fence" will definitely be turned off with insults, even if they aren't directed to them. This is a community (grouping) game foremost so group with them, and help them to overcome their doubts, and you will build a greater community overall. That is what this game is about, COMMUNITY.

This game is so big..and so deep..I could almost go on forever. It is a fantastic experience for those players who value the journey more than the destination. Its a great game for those that appreciate the fact that the sweet aint so sweet without some bitter.

Overall score is a very solid ~ 9   7.75

I think this score will be a 10 a year from now. I think Vanguard is going to be a major success. I would predict over 500k in subs a year from now ...with over a million subs within two years. I think this may even be conservative. Six months from now...once the remaining few bugs are ironed out...people will be coming to Vanguard to play in droves. I'm enduring a few the bugs now so that I will be set up real nice when this game explodes in population. I have no doubt at all it will. Its infamous status now is actualy helping things. Vanguard is nearly a household name as it is.

I do believe you are overstating it a bit. It will get better, and more people will come. I guess time will tell. For now, it still needs a lot of work to even get to the 250,000 subscribers needed to make it successful. This game will never be a "starter MMO" for 90% of consumers, and for a lot will probably never satisfy. If someone is just looking for a "solo game in a MMO package" this will never be it.

Vanguard is the game that sucks less than the rest !

Not a very good advertisement.

Flamers ..flame on.

Jackdog....Godpuppet and all you other Vanguard trolls...have a blast and pick apart my review.

I rest my case

Originally posted by Stevon

Originally posted by DMEnoc

Originally posted by lancebird

Being a "grind" is far more than just the speed you level, it's about gameplay.  Vanguard simply does not have interesting fights.. it's kill the same mob over and over and over and over.  Even if it's a boss.. it fights the same as everything around it.  WoW at least had interesting boss fights, to break up the grind, and you could tell that you had just fought a boss for reasons other than looking at the corpse and seeing it had a different name than the stuff around it.

Fought Dailuk yet?

I hope you are not implying that Vanguard bosses and raid content compares to WoW raid content.... because if you are you are sadly mistaken.  WoW raid content is the best ever seen in a game, period.

"The Grind" is an intangible "feeling" people of different backgrounds and gamestyles will see differently. It is useless to argue about "feelings", as one person will feel differently about the same thing as someone else.

All rpg's are grinds. That is the very nature of an rpg. You start out as a nobody lvl 1 newb, and BUILD your skills/class/powers up to take on bigger challenges to BUILD your skills/class/powers to take on bigger challenges to ... Well, I think you get the picture. Now, certain rpgs hide the grind several ways.

Most single-player rpgs take you through a storyline that fits the level you're at, and you can do everything at your own pace. So, completing quests in a single player is a deliberate script written and you're just following a path. There are some rpgs that are "open", like Morrowwind and Oblivion, but it does exactly the same thing (one or more linear storylines) with other things thrown in "off the beaten track" to trick you into thinking you're "doing whatever you want to".

Now MMO's can still do this, but the very nature of the game doesn't lend well to linear storylines. When Joe Bob Skullcracker kills the evil villain that has been infesting the farmers with evil ants of crop-eating, evil villain pops again in a few minutes or hours and someone else can kill the SAME evil villain that has been infesting the farmers with evil ants of crop-eating. While following that particular quest/storyline can be fun and rewarding, it is "JUST A GRIND". No matter how many clowns and magicians entertain you in between, it's all the same. Some people just need more hand holding and "personal attention" than others.

Now personally, I've played just about every single MMO, PnP DnD, MUD, and single player out there (some longer than others) and truly there is absolutely nothing new in that respect. How do you raise fighting skill? YOU FIGHT. How do you raise crafting skills? YOU CRAFT. So whether it's whack a mole, or push a button, or jump up and down till you fall over, there just really isn't a lot of choices for "innovative gameplay" for MMO's. The arcade crowd is just going to have to concede the fact that, for now, MMO's are going to be based on using skills, or buying skills (through usage of skills ), to get more skills, to further your... wait for it... here it comes... you guessed it... skills.

Vanguard opted for the slowing down of leveling, even though "no-lifers" are still going to superlevel through it (that's their choice), so that the veteran crowd could have a game for them. Most MMO's nowadays present little to no challenge, little to no true interaction in the world, and little to no community to build and react with. We're SOOOOO tired of theme park MMO's that throw pretty colors and non-logical gameplay that simply just does not satisfy. Some companies want to appeal to the "lowest common denominator" just make money. Well, I'll be honest, I don't want to play with "lowest common denominator". They all have their games, let them be and they can play for phat lewts for the rest of their lives for all I care.

I already know the tougher games are not going to be the most popular. I've played the popular games and they BLOW CHUNKS. Will Vanguard finally satisfy my need to influence the virtual world? Will it provide the challenge? I truly and honestly don't know. I'm willing to give it a chance. I gave EQ2 a chance, and they came pretty close, but then the cha-ching started and SOE opted to turn it into another theme park. So be it, I don't have to stick around with those type of players, I can move on. Complain all you like, but until this one turns into another mindless piece of garbage everyone seems to like, or they never fix it, and the servers fry, I'll be tooling around until something better comes along, or maybe this is the something better, and it will just take time. For now, I really like the graphics and the potential this game is offering. We'll just have to see how it goes.

Well, you honestly won't get any straight answers from trolls that have never tried the game, or just bash it because it has so much hype to it. "Vanboi's", as they're called may try to over hype it, and that opens the floodgates for trolls like above. I've been playing for a couple weeks, and here's the story.

1. Very well done and indepth crafting. The crafting is quite a bit more indepth than WoW. You can build anything in the game. Furniture, weapons, armor, houses, keeps, jewelery, knick knacks for the house (like even a chess set), and barding for your mount. If it is in the game, you can make it through crafting. The items you make are very essential for the environment. It is absolutely imperative to have crafters as many elements of the game only come to life through crafting. This is good to keep the viability of crafting, unlike WoW where if nobody crafted it wouldn't make any difference.

Problems: It is very slow to learn and the tutorial is very bad. Once you get going, it's great, but you'll have to have some patience at this point to get started. Very steep learning curve.

2. Adventuring is more of the same. No matter what all the hype says, at this point, adventuring is adventuring, period. Go out, find some friends (you can solo, but it is very tedious and hard after 10th level), and go beat up some bad guys, or good guys, or livestock, whatever. You could even attack your own trainer if you're not careful.  Keep in mind though, there are factions. If you pick on a bunch of mobs that belong to a faction, then everyone in that faction in the world will hate you, and it's harder to gain faction than lose it, so don't get yourself thrown out of town because the shopkeeper ripped you off and you kicked his behind.

Problems: They tried instituting a combat mechanic that was more intuitive where you could react off of different moves from the enemy and others in the group to get different results, but at this point, it's poorly, and in some cases non-existant, implemented. Maybe it'll get perfected in the future, but at this time, there are bigger fish to fry. It's the same as WoW right now for combat, hopefully it will get better. Leveling is slow, so don't expect 10 levels a day like WoW. There's plenty to do, and there is no real hurry to level, but some people "feel the need" to level every time they play. It's called instant gratification, and is why games like WoW, and soon EQ2, are known "kiddy" games. No depth, just a level fest. Vanguard is trying to alleviate the level fest by giving you plenty things to do throughout all levels.

3. Diplomacy adds a third sphere in the game. It is absolutely brilliant in my opinion. You can delve into the lore of the game through diplomacy, and maybe even talk your way out of a fight, or into a fight.  It's like a card game where the cards represent different statements and questions you query to your audience and they respond. If you "out talk" them, you'll finish a quest, get something interesting, or find out something you can use later. It really gives another angle on MMO gaming that gives you a chance to not just beat everyone up and become a hero, but you can even become a hero through diplomacy.

Problems: It starts out easy enough, and has a lot of starter quests to get you going, but after a while, it really gets difficult. If you're a good poker player, you'll probably love it, but if you suck at cards, you'll probably suck at this. Just keep in mind there are clues to how to be good at diplomacy, but you'll just have to pick it up on your own for now. There aren't any trainers on the web yet, and the trainers in the game only teach you the basics.

The implementation of this game was not good. It's not nearly as bad as when WoW first came out, that was a complete fiasco, but the developer even admitted the game was opened a couple months too soon. SOE is hosting their servers and forced them out of beta too soon so there are lots of problems. Every day they patch and fix bugs and performance and they are actually doing a good job of it. They might be able to get it ready in one month instead of two through sheer tenacity. It's just that a lot of people don't like to "pay for beta" so they complain about it at length. I can understand that, but as of yet, NO MMO has ever opened bug free, and you will always have to deal with glitches in a game like this. Plus the fact that this game opened 10 times larger in scope than WoW currently is after 2.5 years and ONE expansion, there is a lot for them to do.

A couple complaints, besides slow leveling (if that's your bag), is the death penalty and the travel. Death penalty is where you leave a corpse behind where you died WITH ALL YOUR STUFF. You can pay a price to get it back, but if you don't get your corpse, you'll lose your stuff. In the current shape of things with MMO's, I agree, this is a bit stiff, and I hope they change it soon. The WoW death penalty doesn't bother me at all. Travel is slow because at lower levels, you don't have many choices for traveling (just your feet) and it takes time to get around in a really huge world. You are able to get horses pretty early, and there are MANY more choices for travel in Vanguard than WoW. You build your transport needs, or have someone make you something, or travel with friends. You can even travel while offline. Horses, ships (that you can actually build yourself), dragons, whatever you work towards, you can do. Your group of friends can join a caravan and travel to distant lands even while offline, so you don't have to "catch up" with friends when you log in.

Absolutely great ideas, and the systems are there to do it all, it's just a matter of implementation at this point. The game does require a robust system, but everything in my computer is like 2 years old and I run fine in balanced mode. So I guess if you're a dinosaur with an older system, and still living in the 90's, then it may not be productive to get it until you upgrade. It is the 21st century after all.