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All Posts by Ortwig

All Posts by Ortwig

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1066 posts found
Originally posted by Another_Fan
Originally posted by Ortwig
Originally posted by Another_Fan
Originally posted by Ortwig
Originally posted by Another_Fan
Originally posted by TheRealDarkeus

I have never understood the combat complaint. I have played much worse in the MMO world. In fact, people talk about GW2's combat like it is a good thing. I don't particularly like it to be honest, too floaty, not enough impact.

Then again, I see complaints about combat in EVERY dang MMO forum or thread. I guess TSW just gets extra attention for some reason.

But whatever on that. TSW destroys most MMO games in Story, Quest Design, Lore and setting. Most games cannot even compete. That is why people play. Funcom is not perfect and nor is TSW. But man, it is better than most. And for as much as the combat is panned, this game is still #1 on the front page of this for highest rated game released. So it is doing something right. 

I don't know if you are just missing other frames of reference or one of those people that relentlessly tries to defend a game. TSW's combat boils down to count 5, fire filler, fire consumer, fire consumer and pray that the bugs in the client, and lag let your abilities activate while buffs are active

Add in that you get a couple animations per weapon why would you be surprised people think it's bad ?

In other words, pretty much the same as every other MMO in existence.  Oh, except that you can equip every weapon and ability in the game and form completely unique decks/ builds. 

Crafting a build isn't combat. Don't understand why you are bringing it up. It's like telling someone who doesn't like the ride of a car, that there's lots of color choices. I also don't know where you are getting all MMOs combat is identical and TSW's is no worse. They tried for a very simplified combat system and so far have failed at getting it right. You can't go through the forums and not see the long standing bugs in how things work or the really OP abilities.

Sorry, you don't get to pick one aspect of combat you personally don't like (builder/consumer, which many MMOs use) and animations (which in many MMOs are average) and trash the entire combat system of one game as if it is somehow different.  If you don't like builder/consumer, then say builder/consumer.  The build system is every much as part of combat as everything else you mention, and you don't get to eliminate it from the discussion.  And please speak for yourself.  For as many people who don't like this style of combat, there are others who see no problem with it.

I think with that you have ruled yourself out.

For someone who likes to pick one aspect of a thing and then turn around and call it the whole thing, the only person ruling themselves out is you.   Bye.

Posted by Robsolf on 3/11/14 at 10:21:45 PM

But even by your own standards, a person can't create "what they want", they have to create an "optimum build" that even the developers were incapable of conceiving.

What you want, and whether it's effective, is completely arbitrary.

Edit:  Reminds me of a quote from a movie:  "You can have any beer you want, as long as it's a Corona."

 
There are many optimum builds, just like there are many great beers.  ;)  
 
Funcom made the (right imho) decision to give players complete freedom to create any build they want -- it can completely suck or it could be great.  To create a good build requires, like so many other things in TSW, thought, or at least the willingness to discuss with other players what they have found and maybe do a little research.  Plenty of advice on the forums.
 
Funcom could do a better job of giving better examples of good decks though, and I agree they should do so.  It would help the game if more people came away understanding how it works.  That said, I'd be pretty hard set against dumbing the game too much for players.  There are plenty of games that require zero thought already, and I don't think making it dumber would improve the game or community.
screwy formatting

edit

 


Originally posted by Robsolf

Originally posted by Ortwig

Originally posted by Robsolf Yes.  If you have an "optimized deck"; again, something you admitted was outside the development team's ability.   Outside their ability?  More like outside the list of priorities.  Plenty of player made decks and advice out there, but yeah, Funcom should improve the starter decks, among the 1,000 other things they have in the queue.
If it's outside their priority, why should it be "inside" ours?  Either way, you claim that tons of decks and advice is out there, yet there's an article asking why no one plays the game.  Are you still adhering to the notion that people just "dunno how to play"?
When I see posts like the below, yup.  While I'm agreeing that it's something Funcom should address in the tutorials and starter decks, I can't speak for Funcom's dev priorities.  That said, we're getting a system that allows complete freedom to create any build you want -- sucky or great.  If you can't or won't, as a player, take responsibility for creating something you like, well that's on you.

Originally posted by Beyorn  2,3,1,1,1,1,1 repeat (if melee) or 1,1,1,1,1,2,3 repeat (all others)

 

Originally posted by Robsolf
Originally posted by Ortwig
Originally posted by Robsolf
People who defend the combat in this game keep bringing this stuff up as though it's a concept that MMO players haven't dealt with before.  It's absolutely totally not. 

And yet you have people posting here quoting their spammed rotations of 3 abilities when they have 7 slots.  Or people running around with one weapon thinking that's all they get.  Maybe you get it, but I'm doubtful that others do (and that I blame on the explanation of the mechanics -- Funcom needs to do a better job with the opening missions and the initial HQ missions.)  

If you have an optimized deck, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to down a regular mob in 10-15 seconds.

Yes.  If you have an "optimized deck"; again, something you admitted was outside the development team's ability.  

Outside their ability?  More like outside the list of priorities.  Plenty of player made decks and advice out there, but yeah, Funcom should improve the starter decks, among the 1,000 other things they have in the queue.

Originally posted by Robsolf
People who defend the combat in this game keep bringing this stuff up as though it's a concept that MMO players haven't dealt with before.  It's absolutely totally not. 

And yet you have people posting here quoting their spammed rotations of 3 abilities when they have 7 slots.  Or people running around with one weapon thinking that's all they get.  Maybe you get it, but I'm doubtful that others do (and that I blame on the explanation of the mechanics -- Funcom needs to do a better job with the opening missions and the initial HQ missions.)  

If you have an optimized deck, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to down a regular mob in 10-15 seconds.

Oh, and yeah I agree those starter decks need to be revamped.  They are okay for concepts, but WAY too many people think those are optimized decks, when all they are really good for is the outfit..  ;)

I think there's 3 things Funcom could do to improve understanding of combat (not the combat system itself):

  1. Better tutorials or training missions to walk players through the combat mechanics (give rewards!)
  2. Revamp the pre-made decks so they more effectively make use of passives outside the active weapons
  3. Training missions showing how switching up decks and/or abilities for particular mobs or missions can make a big difference in the speed of the combat
Better animations would be nice too, but I don't see a need to revamp the entire combat system.
Originally posted by Po_gg
Originally posted by Kajidourden

"Then they run through mobs of zombies spamming one single attack over and over because, “slicey good.” Of course this is boring! But it is boring because the player makes it boring. In The Secret World you can have two weapons (excluding auxiliary weapons). You have options to make any sort of character you want. Have up to seven abilities at a time, and seven passives, from over 500 skills. But people insist on spamming just one over and over. The Secret World has a complexity in its combat that I feel like these people are all missing. Combat is as boring or as complex as you make it. And for that, The Secret World deserves praise."

No.  The fact that you CAN just spam one skill over and over and have success is a monumental failure in the combat. 

Actually that's called freedom :) spamming one "slicey good" attack all the time is boring and also ineffective, you'll be facing different mobs during your play... but of course there's the freedom (not the failure), you CAN, if you want.

 

Apologise in advance for the lame example, but let's say you have a screwdriver. Yay, you start to use it everywhere, because you can. There's a small hiccup when first bumping into a torx, but muscle and will combined you beat the obstacle. ( :) )

Then you get the task, to make some holes. True, you CAN achieve that with turning around your trusty screwdriver (a lot), but wouldn't be more effective and much less boring to simply switch for an electric drill? :)

This.  Probably the best analogy I can think of for all the "boring, repetitive" comments.  There's always this quote too:

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Originally posted by Beyorn

2,3,1,1,1,1,1 repeat (if melee)

or

1,1,1,1,1,2,3 repeat (all others)

Use some imagination, man -- you've got 7 active slots (8 with the aux weapon), not to mention the 7/8 passives.  Do something with them.  You get complete freedom, over 500 abilities to choose from, and then you use that freedom to bore yourself by using only 3 abilities?  You are your own worst enemy.

This says more about lazy gamers than it does about TSW. 

Been playing since beta, and still enjoy it to this day.

Quests are the best around, especially if you slow down and listen to the cutscenes and read up on the lore.  It really does play more like a single player game in this respect, and even take notes from time to time.  

The combat, oh the combat...  Okay, for all those who complain about it, I always ask:

  • TSW is pretty demanding from a graphic card/cpu standpoint, how old  is your rig?
  • Are you running on Win8 DX11?
  • Are you complaining about the animations/feel of connection?
  • Are you complaining about builder/consumer?
  • Are you complaining about the rotation?
  • Do you know you can equip 2 weapons?
  • Do you know you can mix and match passives from any weapon and create more effective decks?
  • Do you understand the active/passive synergies?
  • Did you only play with the pre-made decks?  They are notorious for being not terribly effective
  • Do you know you can equip every weapon and unlock every ability?  
  • Do you know you can swap out abilities and decks at any time if you want to try something different?
I think the real problem with TSW combat is that there's quite a learning curve, and the game doesn't have the best tutorial in the world -- in fact the hand holding is pretty light all around.  So it's up the community to explain a lot of the mechanics.  Most players simply don't have the patience to tackle it.  That said, those who do tend to stick with the game.  When it clicks, it clicks.
Originally posted by Another_Fan
Originally posted by Ortwig
Originally posted by Another_Fan
Originally posted by TheRealDarkeus

I have never understood the combat complaint. I have played much worse in the MMO world. In fact, people talk about GW2's combat like it is a good thing. I don't particularly like it to be honest, too floaty, not enough impact.

Then again, I see complaints about combat in EVERY dang MMO forum or thread. I guess TSW just gets extra attention for some reason.

But whatever on that. TSW destroys most MMO games in Story, Quest Design, Lore and setting. Most games cannot even compete. That is why people play. Funcom is not perfect and nor is TSW. But man, it is better than most. And for as much as the combat is panned, this game is still #1 on the front page of this for highest rated game released. So it is doing something right. 

I don't know if you are just missing other frames of reference or one of those people that relentlessly tries to defend a game. TSW's combat boils down to count 5, fire filler, fire consumer, fire consumer and pray that the bugs in the client, and lag let your abilities activate while buffs are active

Add in that you get a couple animations per weapon why would you be surprised people think it's bad ?

In other words, pretty much the same as every other MMO in existence.  Oh, except that you can equip every weapon and ability in the game and form completely unique decks/ builds. 

Crafting a build isn't combat. Don't understand why you are bringing it up. It's like telling someone who doesn't like the ride of a car, that there's lots of color choices. I also don't know where you are getting all MMOs combat is identical and TSW's is no worse. They tried for a very simplified combat system and so far have failed at getting it right. You can't go through the forums and not see the long standing bugs in how things work or the really OP abilities.

Sorry, you don't get to pick one aspect of combat you personally don't like (builder/consumer, which many MMOs use) and animations (which in many MMOs are average) and trash the entire combat system of one game as if it is somehow different.  If you don't like builder/consumer, then say builder/consumer.  The build system is every much as part of combat as everything else you mention, and you don't get to eliminate it from the discussion.  And please speak for yourself.  For as many people who don't like this style of combat, there are others who see no problem with it.

Differences from other MMOs:

  • No classes or levels
  • Ability to equip any weapon and unlock all skills and abilities with one character
  • Clothes are statless and separate from gear  so no limit on ' look'
  • Investigation and stealth missions that require use of brain; caveat here: the game is set in modern day, so characters have in-game cellphones and browsers.  Google may be needed to solve some missions (e.g. wikipedia), but going to walkthrough sites are only necessary if stumped (or you hate using your brain).  See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur6GQp5mCYs&feature=share&list=UUCODtTcd5M1JavPCOr_Uydg
  • Breadcrumb style quests instead of quest hubs
  • More emphasis on overarching storyline
  • Mix of high and low difficulty content within a single zone
  • Automated grouping tool, but no automated dungeon finder
  • Mix of horizontal and vertical progression
  • No falling damage

Things that are the same:

  • Group dungeons and the trinity (though any character can play any role)
  • PvP is zoned and separate from PvE
  • Banking, auction house, post office
  • Cabals (guilds) best for difficult group content (nightmare dungeons, raids, lairs)
  • Endgame is a bit grindy (though there is no requirement to grind, and TSW is more about the journey anyway)
  • Mix of dodging and movement in combat, though you can cast while moving

deleted

 

Originally posted by Another_Fan
Originally posted by TheRealDarkeus

I have never understood the combat complaint. I have played much worse in the MMO world. In fact, people talk about GW2's combat like it is a good thing. I don't particularly like it to be honest, too floaty, not enough impact.

Then again, I see complaints about combat in EVERY dang MMO forum or thread. I guess TSW just gets extra attention for some reason.

But whatever on that. TSW destroys most MMO games in Story, Quest Design, Lore and setting. Most games cannot even compete. That is why people play. Funcom is not perfect and nor is TSW. But man, it is better than most. And for as much as the combat is panned, this game is still #1 on the front page of this for highest rated game released. So it is doing something right. 

I don't know if you are just missing other frames of reference or one of those people that relentlessly tries to defend a game. TSW's combat boils down to count 5, fire filler, fire consumer, fire consumer and pray that the bugs in the client, and lag let your abilities activate while buffs are active

Add in that you get a couple animations per weapon why would you be surprised people think it's bad ?

In other words, pretty much the same as every other MMO in existence.  Oh, except that you can equip every weapon and ability in the game and form completely unique decks/ builds. 

Originally posted by botrytis

TSW is having problems due to lackluster story

You gotta be kidding.  Of the problems that TSW has, lackluster story is not one of them. 

Originally posted by Magiknight
Originally posted by Ortwig
Originally posted by Magiknight
The Longest Journey and Anarchy Online were such good games. How did they mess this up?

They didn't. It's a great game.

It's nothing like TLJ or AO

Yep it's a very different game. And also very good.

Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
Originally posted by Ortwig
Originally posted by Solar_Prophet

I can live with lackluster animations, but even beyond that combat is just... unwieldy. I've tried melee, magic, and ranged builds, and while I definitely like magic the best, it's still just not that much fun to kill things. Which, again, wouldn't be so bad... but they've got the game set up like a typical MMORPG with various creatures roaming around almost everywhere. Combat is an almost constant thing, and when its as lackluster as TSW's, that's a major problem.

There are 5 things that people frequently miss about combat:

  1. You need to equip 2 weapons.  The training missions needs to be revamped (it makes it seem like you only need one weapon), but having one weapon will seriously gimp you.
  2. Understand that your actives and passives must work together.  Your passives must exploit the conditions your actives are triggering.  If you are triggering Weakened, look for passives to exploit Weakened.  Multiple passives can be triggered!
  3. Understand that your passives can be from ANY weapon, not just your equipped ones.  You can find conditions to exploit by using the search panel to the right of the wheel.
  4. Don't forget to upgrade your skill in your weapons and talismans so you can equip better QL items as they drop. 
  5. Don't forget to add glyphs and signets to your gear; they make a big difference
Originally posted by Solar_Prophet

Oh, and crafting is... well it's just pointless and poorly done, IMO. Maybe it gets better later.

Crafting is really more of a utility skill in TSW, good for cooking up potions or glyphs, maybe the occasional weapon.  It is useful, but it's not a complete profession as in other MMOs.

While I appreciate the tips, I already know all that. I'm currently going with a variation of the elemental / blood magic intermediate build (neoshaman, I think) and combat is still just... clunky. It's not that I'm ineffective when it comes to killing things, it's that killing things feels incredibly tedious, and I find myself wishing I could just get on with the story without having to fight my way through a dozen cultists every fifty yards.

Skip the pre-made decks in the game and look for builds on the forums or create your own. Custom decks will always be better than the pre-mades.

Originally posted by Magiknight
The Longest Journey and Anarchy Online were such good games. How did they mess this up?

They didn't. It's a great game.

Originally posted by Reehay

I am exactly the type of player that The Secret World should capture - a mature adult who favors am immersive atmosphere, setting and story over graphics and flashy combat, complex and deep character progression over cookie cutter boring spam three skills gameplay.

The Secret World just  fails to do any of that.  Ya, the combat is mediocre. But so is the rest.  I bought it for 5$ and I still cant muster enough interest to play it past my first week. 

After Funcom shit-birthed Age of Conan, I vowed never to give them another dime.. well they got my TSW 5$. shame on me.

Funcom is a mediocre, straight to FTP, C -, minor league, single a, game developer.  They should switch to making browser mobile games for my children.

Nah, your Funcom hate has just overtaken your life, that's all.

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