All Posts by Sovrath

Originally posted by Felluah

the community has been great - as has the participation from NCsoft staff in the community.

This should be highlighted as I think the NC Soft Staff has been exceptional in the case of Aion. Very communicative.

Pity that Lineage 2 didn't have the same level of communication from the start.

Originally posted by Kilmar

Even if the game really comes out without grinding (simple kill quests is grinding, too), I could never play this game because of its graphics and its animations.

Really? I think the graphics and art design are exceptional.

But to each his/her own.

Originally posted by knite16

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by gillvane1

A lot about character customization. It's nice to customize your character, but that doesn't mean the game isn't an Asian grinder.

 

It's been said so many times that I'm surprised this keeps coming up.

Leveling is on par with WoW.

WoW leveling is extremely easy.

 

And that doesn't mean it will be the same as WoW, WoW is just used to often because many people know it.  Its an industry standard now, so its referenced by everyone.  Aion, though a Korean developed game, follows the "western" style of leveling, which WoW also follows.

Ok "similiar".

This is what was stated by one of the cm's (paraphrasing) "The leveling in Aion will be slightly longer than WoW but not by much".

I feel it is safe to say that if someone is familiar with WoW and states that leveling is easier, about the same or longer then people should get an idea as to what they mean.

Originally posted by gillvane1

A lot about character customization. It's nice to customize your character, but that doesn't mean the game isn't an Asian grinder.

It's been said so many times that I'm surprised this keeps coming up.

Leveling is on par with WoW.

WoW leveling is extremely easy.

Originally posted by SgtFrog

i enjoy grinding over questing and we have not had a good grind mmorpg since lineage 2.

anyone else ?

ps. i dont count free mmorpg as they are all badly made and well...suck

I have absolutely no problem with grinding. I find it very relaxing. I'm actually not happy with L2's new vitality system to be honest as it makes leveling much too easy. Combine that with the free buffs and I get the feeling of "why did I bother" after 4+ years of playing.

That said, Aion will probably have some grind (kill x for y) but the leveling is said to be akin to WoW. No problem with that there.

I do think that many who play it (as stated above) will be looking for Lineage III. They will be dissapointed, no doubt there.

It is my thought that if Aion offers even a fraction of what they say (I'm not one of these "perfect game people, just give me somthing that is fun) It will probably be my permanent game, unless the do somethign to really bork it up.

Originally posted by Raithe-Nor

Originally posted by Sovrath

DDO is also mostly instanced and though there is "good gear" it doesn't really overpower anything.

 

For anyone who doesn't know DDO already, this is the opposite of the truth.  DDO is nothing but a grindfest for extremely overpowered gear.

Again, I think that's because you make it that way, just like the players  in WoW.  Though I do have to admit that you do have to repeat quests quite too often, at least from what I've seen in the lower lvls. However, from what I've seen, you can get through a good part of the game without "uber" gear.

With regards to needing a large amount of players to do anything of merit, that's not true. If you've played Baldur's gate or Neverwinter Nights or even Oblivion you would note that it is small groups that take on the storyline. to that end a game like LOTRO also utilizes a small group for its quests.

As far as Guild Wars not being an MMO, I think that's semantics. You can group with a huge amount of people at your disposal, the groups are just small. And if you look at what happens in an mmo, you usually are just in your party doing whatever it is you are doing.

I can't believe that its the chance of coming upon someone else that has to define it as an mmo. So if you don't come upoin anyone else then the experience is ruined?

Though maybe it does come down to, once again, Sanbox vs Thempark mmo's, as someone mentioned.

Originally posted by Flyte27

I don't like instances in the outside world, but I don't see what is the big deal with dungeons.  As I said EQ was fun, but there are to many jerks running around trying to ruin other players experience in the game and there aren't enough mobs to go around for everyone in open dungeons.  These games are Massively Multiplayer, but that doesn't mean you have to raid or PvP with everyone in the world.  You can choose to do your own thing like in real life or adventure with a small group of people ilke in real life.  Real life is the ultimate MMO, but most of the time peope don't do things together.  They do them solo or in small groups.  It's rare that you will see a raid in real life.

Good Post!

Originally posted by Uzik

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Uzik

If you want a small instance where just you and your friends can play, why not play NWN2 or wait for Diablo2? 

 

The first M in MMO stands for "Massive" fyi...

 

And you can't possibly imagine that there are numerous ways to partake in the big "M"? Or is there just one way that you can imagine. I bet I can think of several.

Look harder and you will see more depth there to that big "M" then you can imagine.

So "sorry" there's more than one way to be social in an MMO.

 

If you like instanced MMOs, good for you.  But don't complain when they turn into gear-based grindfests.

 

When they remove the aspects of true competition between players, the only way to keep people paying the sub is through adding more time-sinks.  I prefer freedom and choice over instances and gear, so I guess that is why "end-game" in WoW and they like don't appeal to me.

Ok, but that's not even remotely true. One of the singlemost instanced games out there is Guild Wars and it's not Gear based at all. DDO is also mostly instanced and though there is "good gear" it doesn't really overpower anything.

You are essentially saying that because WoW does it this way that all games obviously have to follow suit.

And quite frankly the search for greater gear is the gamers' own curse in WoW as all the people I know who play it just have fun and take it for what it is.

Also, you don't keep players playing because of competition. this is just because you look at gaming through this lens.

You keep gamer playing by giving them interesting and engaging content based upon the initial thrust of the game. So, if the game is about competition and pvp then you keep that fresh and give players additional reasons to compete (which now that I write that seems to me to be a way to make a gear based game no? So competition really doesn't have anything to do with keeping gear grind out of it)

If the game is about story line then you give the players new areas to explore and new storylines to follow.

Originally posted by Ephimero

Originally posted by rikilii

I can think of several reasons why instanced dungeons are a good thing, but few, if any, why they are bad.

Someone care to explain?

 

Not gonna bother reading the whole thread, so it maybe has already been said, but for me, instanced dungeons take away a part of the community feeling, you go and hide in your little room where nobody bothers you, instead of interacting with the community as a whole.

Instanced dungeons also play against open world pvp, if you can hide, then there will be no drama nor politics, I can't see weak guilds dissolving if everyone is on their little room.

Ok but that's only in games that have open world pvp. Which aren't a lot.

And once again (draws in deep breath) there are more ways to interact with community than meeting them in a dungeon or partying with them.

Sorry but unless you want to dilute your story line, instanced dungeons are the only way to go. If it is a pvp game then of course you don't want instanced dungeons but then the game will be about something else.

Originally posted by Uzik

If you want a small instance where just you and your friends can play, why not play NWN2 or wait for Diablo2? 

 

The first M in MMO stands for "Massive" fyi...

And you can't possibly imagine that there are numerous ways to partake in the big "M"? Or is there just one way that you can imagine. I bet I can think of several.

Look harder and you will see more depth there to that big "M" then you can imagine.

So "sorry" there's more than one way to be social in an MMO.

Originally posted by Thradar

 This thread is comical.

Include travel mounts:  You're breaking lore...lame!

Exclude travel mounts:  WTF?  You mean I have to walk everywhere?!

People are never happy.

Well, I don't think adding mounts of some sort would be breaking lore because Moria was a city.

However, remember that there are people out there, myself included, who enjoy the idea of integrity to original source material. So when players bring up the lore card it isn't just because they are being prissy. They enjoy the idea of playing in the world that was created, not generic fantasy world #7.

But you are right, sometimes people are never happy.

Originally posted by heremypet

Wow I'm in an MMO!

Look at all these people, they are all playing too!

I want to go outside of town and see what they are all doing there!

There isnt anyone outside of town.. Now I'm the only player here. But hey! I just got a nice sword out here. Check it out my sword, check it.. oh yea.  Ill go back to town and show everyone my sword!

Hey HEY check it out my new sword! I got it in the same area outside of the city!  The same area you all got yours but I didnt see you there.

Guild wars has taken instancing all the way to the city gates.  Now there is the only place you can see other players.  Want PVP? You guessed it, go into another instance. 

WOW look at this I'm fighting another player, hah I took that guy there out!  Oh crap here comes a big mean guy with.. run.  RUUNNNNN AHHHH  AHHH.....  Wait.  There isnt.. this area is just a tiny little area... WTF *hack* ... Im back in town now hrm..  where was that place?  Ill go outside of town and try to find it.........................

Sure WoW doesnt go that far but still, SURELY there can be enough room for everyone in a virtual world. Oh NOES!! ONE UV AUR CUZTUMARS GOT PEEKAY KEELED DOOING A KWEST AN CANCAL HIS ACCUONT WE NEAD TEH MONAY WE MAYKE TEH BABEE HAPPIE

Seriously how is one really to respond to this?

You inadvertantly make an argument for instances in this gem of a response. And I LIKE games like Lineage 2.

Originally posted by heremypet

I dont like instances and I'll tell you why.

In PVP it gives players a "place to hide" and level without being exposed to the "real world"

In epic encounters a rival guild should be able to "wipe" an opposing guild raid by ambushing them during a confrontation.  yea and trains should still make everyone very very mad. /snicker

A fake world in a real world thats a fake world in the real world.  When I step through a door I would like to see it open and the contents becoming visible, not some splash screen with dumb loading messages that drives a wedge between me and my immersion in the game.

"What was that over there? it looked like another player.  Oh wait this area is fake, must have been a mob."

The only real reason for instances is to keep lines from forming at epic encounters.  But tell me this.. What is so epic about an encounter that is so common that it needs instancing to keep lines from forming?

Why again do we need instancing?

But again, that is for pvp oriented games. What you speak of is the way it is in L2.

However, for more story based, pve games, you don't want to see a line of people waiting to take down the quest boss or to solve the puzzle, etc.

So, as Kyleran put it, PvP games don't really go with instancing and PvE games do. To further that point, a PvP game draws its immersion from the entire playerbase but a PvE game draws its immersion from the story telling.

Originally posted by nomadian

Just out of general curiousity?

To be honest, yes. I like it when games have hard to reach levels. I am in the minority I'm sure but I don't like the new Vitality system that was added to Lineage 2 for instance.

Believe me, it woudl take far, far, faaarrrr more than 7 hours to gain a lvl!

Originally posted by meatburger

Hey Hey!!

My last comment was kind of a joke to rile up anyone who falls for it. I will admit though ive noticed general trends in people who play PVP vs people who play PVE. People who pvp are typically more competitive and tougher sorts. Do you deny this observation? Of course there are always exceptions. I know because i am friends with people on both ends of the spectrum.

This is perhaps what you mean when you point out people are built differently? Some people do not like competition and are a little more fearful than others.

 

 

 

 

Well, then first of I apologize if that was snarky. To use a term. It seemed a rather drastic thing to say when talking about a video game and I guess I didn't take it in the spirit it was given.

I agree in that players who want pvp are more competitive. At least from what I can see, you are correct in that statment.

I'm not sure if more fearful is the correct term for people who don't like it but more to the point it is a different reaction to the adrenaline that builds up when they have that competition.

I once recalled someone describing what his body was going through when they pvp'ed... heart pumping, body sweating and shaking,etc. I wrote that it sounded like he was having a heart attack.

Some people "get off" from that rush but I imagine others would find it physically uncomfortable.

I think the same can be said of other such activities such as sky diving or bungie jumping. There are people who get off on that and there are people who just don't feel the same rush. They might even be fearful or they might just not "get it".

Toward that end, I think that a game has to cater to one or other type of player. Or allow for enough difference in gameplay as to make pve servers and pvp servers actually make sense.

DarkFall is being touted as a pvp game. I sometimes cringe when I see other players ask about pve servers. But I also cringe when I see pvp players try to push the pvp agenda on games where it's not being considered. LOTRO comes to mind as it was never concevied of as a pvp game even though pvp of a sort could fit in there.

Players wanted open pvp in LOTRO but that would be a completely different type of game that would grant the possibility of rewriting the world which wasn't really a desired outcome.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Nothing is wrong with instanced content, depending on the focus of the game.

For PVE, quest based content, they are the best way to go to ensure everyone person is fully immersed in the story they are involved in.

For a PVP, player dominated content, they are a bad idea in general, as they deprive the audience of the ability to control the resource and impact the game world.

Where there is a conflict is when game developers try to appeal to both groups in the same game to maximize sub numbers.  It's logical for them to want to do so, but it means compromises need to be made that leave everyone slightly unhappy with the results.

But it mostly works.

 

I think this makes sense.

When a player plays an instance in a pve oriented game, he is the focus of the story and thus it makes sense that he and his group work their way toward whatever quest goal the game offers.

However, in a pvp oriented game, it make more sense to have everything open so that players can compete over content.

Originally posted by Jhughesy

Originally posted by Fungo

I'm trying really hard to find reasons why instanced dungeons are bad, but I can't really find any.

Having a place you can go do with a small group of buddies, without being bothered by a bunch of other people, is rather nice.

 

That's what multi-player games are for. MMORPGs shouldn't have instancing. Being bothered by other people is part of playing an MMORPG. It adds immersion and risk.

Not at all. It kills immersion.

Having players waiting around like in an amusement park so thhat they can kill a mob or clear a dungeon is the total opposite of "immersion".

I don't recall in the Lord of the rings a line of people waiting outside so that they too could make their way through moria.

Or in the same example, the fellowship waiting around trying to decide which way to go and suddenly another group coming through and saying "oh, no worries, it's this way guys".

Originally posted by meatburger

 If you bag pvp i am going to have to point out the deficient size of your gonads.

yes... you are a "real man", there's no denying that.

Other than that, there is nothing wrong with pvp at all. Havign said that, you must also realize that people are built differently and that "rush" you speak about might not appear to others or affect others in the same way due to how they are built.

But sure, I don't see any reason why someone would diss you for enjoying player vs player combat as they must also realize that people are not built the same way as they.

of course, with that last statement one must also wonder if we need to point out some other deficiencies as I actually think you were serious.

Originally posted by PatchDay

Originally posted by CactusmanX

Eh dungeons are a waste of time, they are kind of boring in my opinion, seeing as how they are always the same.  PKing people doesn't make the dungeon more fun either.

Really why would those trolls keep occupying the same cave over and over, it clearly is a poor defensive choice as they keep getting slaughtered.

 

Why can't trolls and such build bases that get destroyed or take other bases, kind of like a RTS, that way there is a little more reason to do these outdoor dungeons, as winning does something and it isn't just a ploy to kill a bose to get some loot so that item whores will be appeased.

 

Right on I'd love to see MMOs pursue this

I think within the worlds that we have seen these monsters the idea is that they are primitive and not very organized.

This would preclude any actually industry and it would make sense that they would take up residence in prebuilt structures.

I think one of the reasons that people like dungeons (myself included) is that it gives the player the possibility of an interesting settings.

It's not just hallways with doors. It's stairs, architectural elements, sculputures, traps to get buy and the mysteries that lie within,