Originally posted by eyeswideopen

Funny how Schilling has always stated he's against government in business and especially government bailouts, yet he's looking for R.I.'s government to bail his company out.

Dude is a hypocritical joke.

It's more like a lesson learned.

Can't tell you how many people I've seen say one things and then over the years they learned a bit more of reality and realized that their convictions just did hold water.

Especially when you have employees who you want to end up paying.

Originally posted by jpnole

I ask this because I know people who will buy every game that comes out, even when all signs point to it being a catastrophic failure. I used to be one of those "buy every game" people. So, I want to know what PC games (non-mmo or mmo) that you have succesfully resisted buying and promise never to buy for any price. I'll go first:

Dragon Age 2

Mass Effect 3

Tera

Risen 2 (thank you meta critic/users!)

 

Except "what is a catastrophic failure"?

This is the problem with some "gamers". They have this idea of some "game on the hill" and can't just let go and have fun. I would even go as far as to say that some "gamers" play these games with the intent of just bitchign about them.

As far as your list, I liked DA2 a lot and I'm enjoying Tera very much. Not that they don't have their issues but very few things don't.

I'm also enjoying Diablo 3.

Basically, I don't buy games I'm not interested in. MAss Effect 3 would be there. Mass Effect as well.

If i'm interested in a game then I do my research. If I see that the game has things I might enjoy then I buy it.

I think in some cases gamers are spoiled and don't know what they want.

I just use the block feature.

Too many idiots.

Originally posted by Enozuma

Originally posted by Nethriil
You Are wrong. In the end game developers Are out to make money and payback to their investors. You probably too young to understand how buisnesses work.

Lets dig a little on this!

 

Since Tera has not been out long enough to do a comparison I will use WoW as my example and compare to GW1 since they are around the same age. You mentioned I don’t understand business… so lets break it down! Both are if you played from start through each add-on!

Wow… $1550 total

4 updates $50 each ($200)

Monthly $15 ($180)

11/2004 till 05/2012 ($1320)

 

Guild wars $200 total

4 updates $50 (most where around $30 to $40)

Monthly $0

That's great. But the people at WoW have discovered they can charge and get what they want and therefore they get more money.

The chief reason for a business to exist is to get money.

So "sure" I love the GW model. But if in the long run the business can't make money they it's kind of a wash. There was an interview with the Arena Net where they said that part of the issue with GW was that all the different iterations of each expansion were getting too expensive to develop given the amount of money they were bringing in.

That's why they wanted to do GW2 differently so that they could have some sort of solid foundation that they wouldn't have to make too many changes with each expansion.

Now it remains to be seen whether their cash shop will be able to bring in the money they want.

As long as a company can make enough money to develop a game then I'm all for paying less money. But if a company has to close its game because they can't make enough money to keep it open then that does me no good.

And as long as I think I'm getting value for money I'm happy.

Originally posted by Enozuma

Reply to AliceKaye… I am wrong? So GW2 is no good??? Pay for every little thing in game? I would say you are wrong regarding this! GW2 is most likely going to change a lot of how future games are developed and what you will see in the near future!

 

Reply to Skoma2… in all regards to my “Amount” of posts… I could honestly care less! I am simply stating this at this current time in our gaming world, I see a change in the way games are coming to us! And simply that this method is sort of out dated!

 

Reply to Mexorilla… like mentioned before… GW2 cheap looking??? I would guess you have not seen it for some reason??? I would say though my game play has been limited to beta events and the prepay events… one on the best looking games out there! Most certainly the best I’ve seen!

 

Thanks for looking!

Guild Wars 2 is not f2p it's b2p. It will have a cash shop and it's not out yet so we haven't seen whether or not this model works i the long run.

Would I prefer to always buy a game and not pay a fee? yes. would I prefer to buy a game and pay a fee each month instead of having the game carved up and me always being hit in the face with a hand and a $ sign a la f2p?

yes.

Originally posted by skydiver12

Nice read! thanks.

One thing to mention is, TERA is punishing when it comes to quest gear. You will outlevel most quests, and by doing them you don't do yourself any favour. You will be heavy undergeared.

While this is no issue in itself, it is an isue when you try to run your level appropiate dungeons. Especially as Lancer / Berserker who rely on Block damage absorb.

Besides you are slowed down extremly when trying to do every quest, because the rewards do not scale well in comparsion to "on level" quests which you could do at your level.

 

Dropping every quest which is below your current level lead me personally to advance at double speed.  (If fast leveling is what you are looking for)

Just buy your gear from players.

I am usually running with gold gear and I have never gotten a usable lancer piece of equipment from a dungeon.

Since I'm not the type of person to repeast dungeons ad nauseum until I get one I just save my money and buy it from plaeyrs. An additional note is I don't craft or gather. I sell whatever drops I can on the AH and those Idon't sell I sell to vendor. I"m not rich by any means but at lvl 48 I am decked in gold gear. not enchanted mind you but at the moment that isn't too large an issue. I'll work on enchanting at lvl cap as I think it's a waste of money to do it at lower levels.

You can make just a melee fighter if you want. or just magic. I imagine just crafter as well.

Originally posted by Amaranthar

Developers have been hardcore against the "sims" model and realism, and players are reluctant to use those words because of the game "The Sims" and poorly funded start-up efforts that really are nothing more than a poor rendition of "realistic" lacking anything more. But the reality is, as shown with Skyrim, as shown with the displeasure of "the same ol' same ol' ", players do want "realistic fantasy". Players do want "a world". To live in, but more, to adventure in. All the gameyness is turning gamers off.

I don't think that's exactly true.

The few people I've met (other than this website) who played Skyrim, and in some cases the other elder scrolls games, played them for the quests.

They followed all the immediately findable quests, did them and when they couldn't find anything else to do they moved on.

I think sandbox fans and perhaps elderscrolls fans are in it for the other stuff. But there is evidence that following the game's apparent path is just as much a reason to by a "Skyrim" as not.

So this doesn't really translate into "x amount of sales went into the game therefore it's for a large explorable world".

heck, one of the guys I talked with hated morrowind because of all the walking. That's a game I played for a good two years.

Originally posted by Avarix

I think it's because developers stopped trying to be inovative. They see the tried and true models and continue the same trend.

A lot of people actually do vote with their wallets but there is a disconnect here. World of Warcraft brought in millions of people into the genre. This changed a couple things.

Those millions will keep hyping and jumping to the next clone, hoping for the same feeling/experience as WoW without doing any research. This encourages developers to continually push out sub-par games since they are making money from it. This isn't going to change until the majority of people that were brought into the fold by World of Warcraft realize they simply do not like MMORPGs, just WoW and no one does WoW like WoW itself.

So now we have the millions of people trying to repeat WoW all over again, and a much smaller number trying to play original MMORPGs. This is why there is such a large turn-over of subscribers after a couple months on most new games. Until those millions give up and change to thousands, the genre will continue moving in the same direction it has been going for quite a while now, trying to repeat the anomaly that is World of Warcraft.

I'm not asking for much, just make me feel something when I get into your game that makes me want to stay, not roll my eyes. Most of this is subjective, and all of it is only my opinion. Take it as you will.

 

I think Avarix is close to the mark.

Coupled with the cost and risk it is very clear why developers are loath to jump into something that is "new and different".

Originally posted by Pivotelite

 

 

Lol Archeage, I can only pray for that game to release, also yeah TERAs combat put me off some games sadly. Combat became more important to me now. :/

All I can say is that I play these games for exploring, for story and for combat.

I despise crafting, despise fishing, despise a good amount of things that some players play mmo's for. I want to fight evil, fight players and explore and discover new things.

Tera offers this so it works for me.

Story isn't so great but I have SWToR for story and perhaps TSW.

Originally posted by Nadriell
that's the reason I never played a healer. I wanna watch the fight not just keep green bars up. you guys have motivated me I'm going to roll a priest tonight

Keep in mind you will start out slow. You just will. Somewhere after you leave the noob island, maybe lvl 14 your skills will grow and in the early 20's you will fight your first BAMS. This I recommend.

I am told that the story in the 40's is better than the early story.

If you follow the story at all.

Originally posted by Renoaku

http://tera-forums.enmasse.com/forums/general-discussion

And so the Moderator starts to lock like Dozens of multiple topics related to the same issue except one, I wonder if they finally get the message that quite a few of us are unhappy with the CashShop or at least certain parts of it.

It doesn't really matter it's a small minority.

Please read the article. This is somewhat similair to what Turbine discovered with DDO and later LOTRO:

I'll post it again thanks to Loktofeit:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/33371/GDC_2011_Perfecting_The_FreeToPlay_Battlefield_Heroes.php

Originally posted by Numquam

I'm quite eager to try out this game. Was just wondering about a few things, so if anyone can answer, I'll be gratefull.

1. Is there any raiding or planned raiding?

2. Looking at clips, the game has something that was the only thing keeping me in WoW for way to long: Smoothness when moving. Things look natural and it looks like the character reacts instantly when you click your stuff. Is that correct?

3. It seems that the game is not as full of cookie builds and that the variation from character to character is impressing. Am I right about that?

Thanks in advance for any answer I get :)

As was mentioned, it's important to note that many abilities have an animation. This helps in broadcasting your move and allowing the recipient to make a decions (quickly) on what what to do.

I hesitate to say it's as smooth as a "WoW" or other such game where players can constantly be moving while they attack. Some like it and some do not.

Also, the game starts off slowly as far as abilities so some players might be put off by your "two" abilities right out of the gate. Still, I've seen in chat some people having difficulty getting used to it so this is probably done on purpose.

Originally posted by baritone3k

Anyone have this experience? I get a solid FPS through the open world and in instances - 50-70FPS. But when I get into combat, things slow way down. I have been told this may be network lag. Bosses get choppy, regular mobs get choppy - 1v1 pvp gets choppy.  This isn't always but it does happen a good amount of the time.

 

I also get about a half second delay when turnign in quests and about a 2 second delay when turning in a quests levels a toon. And sometimes on when first getting onto the pegasus to travel.

 

I have tried lowering the settings to almost ridiculous levels, and still the same thing. I get solid FPS until combat starts.

 

My cpu is decent - i7 920 at 2.67 12 gigs of ram at 1600 and a 480gtx card. It is not a beast at all any more, but it runs the game so well other than at the times listed above that I am hoping for a tweak that will unlock the fps - especially in combat.

I have a great computer but sometimes I get this. I have noticed that it's worse on the wireless so plugging in an ethernet cable seems to solve it.

Originally posted by Zadawn

Originally posted by p_c_sousa

who cares if a game have cash shop. is a shop that turn game a P2W game? no....so i dont see any problem. in fact i like this kind of shop, give more money to company invest in game to make it better in future.

 

The major problem is that once they get a taste of it and see it works,it is more likely they will add more,and then more.Sooner or later it will turn into a pay to win shop just like everyone one of them out there.

I can't say that's not impossible. It really will be a tug of war for a while.

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Vesavius

Exactly.etc....

But "again" there's very little evidence that these extra items would be in the game if it wasn't for these cash shops.

Wasn't in EQ, EQ II, Lord of the Rings, Lineage 2, Age of Conan, Vangaurd, Ryzom, and any number of games that were released.

 

This is kind of a vague argument to make Sov... :/

Why does that line of thinking even matter?

The fact is that it is in game rewards gated off from the player unless they pay extra money. In a sub game that just isn't acceptable to me.

As ever, Play to Achieve > Pay to Achieve.

GW2 is playing it the smartest... they let me fully play to achieve while letting the other guy pay pay pay.

 

I think it's important to note that I'm not dismissive of these concerns.

You want to see nerd rage (quietly and internally that is)?

You and me go to the movies and see me squirm with abject hate when the car commercials start rolling across the big screen.

One could easily say "ignore it - you don't have to buy the Lexus as it  tunes the 552 horsepower V10 engine of the LFA with the precision of a musical instrument. Discover what else is possible at WWW. etc etc.

But the reality is that many people dont' mind, car companies want to advertise and they have a captured audience and movie theaters want to make more money.

Game companies need to make more money. They just do. Heck, look at Curt Schilling's company, he wanted to make a more EQ like mmo, realized that mmo's need a lot of money to make, even released a single player game just to get an influx of cash and his company defaulted on a million dollar loan and things look a bit grim.

Let's not even talk about the "we need more sandbox games because those will make bank" arguments. Or the "we need soemthing totally different" arguments.

For better or worse game companies need more money and $15 per month isn't cutting it. It's been proven that cash shops work. And of course there's the horror of the whole f2p + cash shop model that lets people play for free while a smaller group foot the bill.

There is a whole generation of players who don't view these games with the sacrosanct attitudes that many on the forums show.

So people can (and should) stand by their principles and not play these games if they cross that line or come to terms that a happy medium is going to have to be reached.

So the time is now. Because I don't see the argument that "these things should be in game" really carrying any weight other than that's what people are clinging to. I get it. But that's not the reality at present.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

 

Link to the article.

Originally posted by Renoaku

Looking at the Tera forums there are like 4-5 threads on there talking about the cashshop store I wonder how many of us it is going to take to complain before they will make these features like customizations FREE the way it should be.

Forums are not only a minority but in one case it was shown that the people who complain the most are also the people who partake the most.

There was an article about changing some game to f2p with cash shop. It was actually posted in some thread and if I can i'll find it.

What happened was a certain game was going to go f2p and players were threatening to quit, to boyott, etc. What ended up happening was that a huge amount of players took advantae of the cash shop AND some of the most ardent users were those that complained in the first place.

Two things will happen.

Either no one buys they ACTUALLY quit and they realize that keeping subs is the way to go; or...

More people buy than threaten to or actually quit and they realize not to listen to people on the forums.

Originally posted by Vesavius

 

 

Exactly.

 

etc....

But "again" there's very little evidence that these extra items would be in the game if it wasn't for these cash shops.

Wasn't in EQ, EQ II, Lord of the Rings, Lineage 2, Age of Conan, Vangaurd, Ryzom, and any number of games that were released.

The exceptions, as I've mentioned aer CoX and funny enough EVE as both have very robust visual character creators with lots of options.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Sovrath

Your subscription, historically, gave you access to everything that they included in the game that they thuoght should be in the game.

...except the content they sold as expansions.

Suddenly game companies realize they can sell cosmetic items so they add more of these. I can't name many if any games that were p2p that had a plethora of extra cosmetic items "just because they thought they should be in game".

If suddenly means "since 2003," then you are correct. :)

 

I don't recall any p2p games that ahd a cash shop. Expansions yes, but not sellnig vanity items and the like. maye eastern games?

UO has sold furniture/items, expanded inventory, advanced characters and other content for almost ten years now.

That's really interesting. And how did the core UO players take that?

It was, and still is, cool extra stuff for the players that wanted it. The store was at UOGameCodes.com but has since been moved to the origin shop: http://store.origin.com/store/ea/search/?keywords=UO

 

And was there the same outcry that today's cash shops seem to be receiving?