Originally posted by Jairoe03

 To begin, this thread is just theory and speculation only (with a little bit of fun, hopefully!). The general situation I'm presenting within an MMORPG in general is:

How would a game be impacted by removing Healers from an MMORPG completely? Good or bad?
NOTE: I'm thinking Healers as a class mainly
 

Personally, I think it'll create dynamics normally not found in games if Healers were eliminated with more emphasis on surviving rather than making up the damage. I can imagine a game working fairly well with absolutely no Healer class but with very limited healing abilities (potions or bandaids etc.). Your health all of a sudden becomes a very important aspect of the game and I'm sure people will be finding ways to mitigate damage while still trying to function within the roles they specialize in. I think the game would be unconventional in terms of balancing out different ability sets/classes, but perhaps it could make it easier as well since we are also removing a dynamic that is usually accounted for.

I can also see more emphasis on different types of group tactics used, some immediate thoughts come to mind such as a stout Warrior helping a Mage friend by helping shield and taking damage for him while the Mage pelts a raid boss with fireballs and having to spread damage around more evenly to keep from anyone dying during an encounter maybe by a group effort of kiting while dodging huge blizzards (and perhaps utilizing a more complex aggro system). These are just some of the thoughts that come to mind when I think of it.

 

What about your thoughts if any? Good or bad, should there be a game that takes a Healer position completely out of the picture.

I think it could be a good thing provided that the classes combat were altered in such a way that players weren't being 2 shot only to run out and be 2 shot again only to run out...

If players can somehow be allowed self heals or if stopping behind cover could help regen some health then it might be able to work.

Or depending on the game they can have bandages or some such thing.

of course that means players who like to be healers would be completely out of luck.

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Somehow I figured this would get some replies.

 

Yeah, I've downloaded the widescreen patch and even the mod which lets you run BG1 in BG2's game engine.

 

As of right now, Minsc attacked my party because we took too long rescuing this girl from the gnoll fort, and I have two guys dead in my party with only 8 gold to ressurect them, but one thing I'm doing is just running around trying to level up all my characters a bit.  It seems to take forever though and I still die almost every other fight, and once I successfully kill something, I get jumped when I try to rest and then I die :P

 

Do you have a trustworthy link for that?

 

http://www.pocketplane.net/tutu

 

Thank you very much ; )

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Somehow I figured this would get some replies.

 

Yeah, I've downloaded the widescreen patch and even the mod which lets you run BG1 in BG2's game engine.

 

As of right now, Minsc attacked my party because we took too long rescuing this girl from the gnoll fort, and I have two guys dead in my party with only 8 gold to ressurect them, but one thing I'm doing is just running around trying to level up all my characters a bit.  It seems to take forever though and I still die almost every other fight, and once I successfully kill something, I get jumped when I try to rest and then I die :P

Do you have a trustworthy link for that?

Originally posted by stux

 

How is the botting compared with Lineage II?

I thought L2 was much worse.

So there is a show called "The Legend of Neil".

It is an internet show and is loosely based off of the Legend of Zelda games where a player gets sucked into the world. If anyone has ever played the Legend of Zelda or has an interest in a funny, a bit raunchy, show on video games, this could be the show for you.

It also utilizes the talent of Felicia Day as the Fairy.

In any case, apparenlty the sponsors need people to rate the show and chime in as to whether it should continue:

Read Latest news on the left side:

http://effinfunny.com/legend-of-neil

In any case I think the show is hilarious and if some of you like the show it might be a good idea to chime in and vote.

http://www.atom.com/funny_videos/legend_of_neil_207/

I hesitated to post this as you need to sign up for the site in order to rate and vote (lord knows where my e-mail is being beamed to). However, as many of us have probably signed up for sites for much less then perhaps some of you might not have a problem with this.

As I said, the show is extremely funny (in my opinion) so if you don't know the show I suggest you watch from the start. The episodes are very short. However, again, it is a bit raunchy at times and if that is not your thing then I advise to just steer clear.

Personally I would like to see good shows continue and sometimes we the viewer do have a a voice.

In any case thanks for reading. - S

Originally posted by jcusanoiii

 why didnt they just launch the game like this? the games out for like 3 months and they're already completely revamping it?

Well, a lot of this stuff was always talked about by the deves. As Gameloading has said, they plan to really make this game into something and somethng for the long haul.

I realize that some people are saying "why didn't they release all of this with the game's launch) but really, there is only so much that can be done before they have to start taking in some money. Otherwise I imagine that they could constantly be adding features and expanded content.

Also, some people have complained about the graphics and I did read something where they were thinking of how to address this. So here we are.

Originally posted by SuperXero89

After playing Dragon Age for awhile and hearing about how similar the game was to the Baldur's Gate series, I decided to try the original once again.  Now I bought this game years ago, but I have no idea where I placed all the various CDs.  Long story short, I "acquired" a copy of Baldur's Gate and started playing it again, intending to actually play the game this time instead of seeing how many cows I can spawn in the center of the Friendly Arm Inn.  Man, is this game hard though.  Even though I've played the heck out of NWN and experienced playing the real PnP game through some online sessions (those are fun with the right software), I consider myself a D&D newb, but I didn't think I suckd quite this bad.  It seems like I can only make it through every two or three fights before someone in my party (sometimes more than one) takes a dirtnap, forcing me to run back to down to plug down 100 gold just to get him or her resurrected.  Despite this, I really enjoy the game though.  I actually the the game's graphics have aged rather well and the soundtrack is top notch, but it just sucks that I'm so terrible at the game.

Does anyone who's played this agree with me or have some solutions which may keep me alive? :P

I actually just did the same thing and purchased a 4 disk set of Baldur's Gate, BG II, Tales of the Sword Coast and Throne of Bhaal. I have trouble actually running Baldur's Gate so I have to go back to my mac version.

I do remember them being hard but in a way I liked the challenge. Also, you can set the difficulty level so you should be able to tone down the game. hmmm, well in BG II I know you can so I am thinking you should be able to do this for BG.

Originally posted by Knightcry

Originally posted by Sovrath

Monsters dropping money or items that they would never normally have on their person.

 

 

I would have to agree.

Sovrath did you finally give up on L2?

Yes, I no longer play L2.

It never really went toward a place that interested me and in the end the economy was just too tough for how much work I was willing to put into making money. That alongside the fact that I found it very hard to do what I had done for years which was find a nice spot and solo for a while as I had done since I started the game.

Nothing in L2 seemed logical or fleshed out. Just tacked on. 

I've moved to Aion as my permanent game now. I realize some people say it's grindy but coming from L2 it's like a walk in the park.

So I'll add that as another bad mmo mechanic... though not really a mechanic: Expanding a game in a way that makes sense to the game world as well as expanding a game so that you don't lose the sense of community.

Too many games have it so that the community is too spread out. I realize that there are some technical reasons for this as having a game where the entire server's population is in one place might not be fun for the developer or the player.

But there should be some revisiting to old areas so that there is always some life in them.

Originally posted by Mysk

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Mysk

Originally posted by Mystik86

I've been into the WoD stuff for a VERY LONG TIME and I can tell you that if the game does see the light of the moon it will be the single greatest offering to the horror/RP/vampire-vs-werewolf community ever...

 

That's assuming that they build it correctly, but you're forgetting something called "DDO".  For many years I made your comment but in regards to fantasy MMOs, saying that if anyone ever made a Dungeons & Dragons MMO then that would be it.  Most epic MMO ever.

Well, you know that went.

Don't get me wrong.  I love WoD and vampires and werewolves and horror and... the whole shabang.  While I have more respect for CCP than I'll ever likely have for Turbine, that's not saying that I have any form of explicit trust that they - or anyone - will actually do the IP justice.

I'd cross my fingers and hope for the best, but I need them to be snarky on the forums.

EDIT:  As far as a Twilight MMO is concerned, sure, let them have it. I really don't care.  It would keep those types out of the WoD IP where they would almost certainly whine about how the vampires are too mean, not romantic enough, and otherwise not like edward.  As far as I'm concerned it would do everyone a service.

 

I just don't trust that a vampire mmo would work unless it was more along the lines of an Underworld style (doesn't have to have werewolves just the style) world where it's more about the conflict.

I suppose what I'm saying is that mmo's don't seem to me to be very good at generating atmosphere. It's hard to be scary with people dueling in the tombs and people dancing on top of the bushes.

 

Celerity + The Hammer onna bush.  If you're going to do a masquerade violation, may as well do it with flair. :D

Well, because of this thread I just installed Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines (never actually finished it). Installed a patch and started it up.

I was on a stage because of a violation from the person who sired me and looked over to see 2 people dancing on the same stage. Then someone yelled from across the room "NOOB".

I'm not sure this whole mmo Vampire thing is a good idea

Originally posted by Mysk

Originally posted by Mystik86

I've been into the WoD stuff for a VERY LONG TIME and I can tell you that if the game does see the light of the moon it will be the single greatest offering to the horror/RP/vampire-vs-werewolf community ever...

 

That's assuming that they build it correctly, but you're forgetting something called "DDO".  For many years I made your comment but in regards to fantasy MMOs, saying that if anyone ever made a Dungeons & Dragons MMO then that would be it.  Most epic MMO ever.

Well, you know that went.

Don't get me wrong.  I love WoD and vampires and werewolves and horror and... the whole shabang.  While I have more respect for CCP than I'll ever likely have for Turbine, that's not saying that I have any form of explicit trust that they - or anyone - will actually do the IP justice.

I'd cross my fingers and hope for the best, but I need them to be snarky on the forums.

EDIT:  As far as a Twilight MMO is concerned, sure, let them have it. I really don't care.  It would keep those types out of the WoD IP where they would almost certainly whine about how the vampires are too mean, not romantic enough, and otherwise not like edward.  As far as I'm concerned it would do everyone a service.

I just don't trust that a vampire mmo would work unless it was more along the lines of an Underworld style (doesn't have to have werewolves just the style) world where it's more about the conflict.

I suppose what I'm saying is that mmo's don't seem to me to be very good at generating atmosphere. It's hard to be scary with people dueling in the tombs and people dancing on top of the bushes.

Originally posted by GPrestige

Originally posted by Ionik

One thing they didn't address is the grind.

 

 

 

Well we don't know this yet. Don't misjudge me, I'm just as skeptical as the next guy who was burned by Aion's release, but for all we know they could absolutely address the major problems. If they do then I would have found my long-term MMO for good, no questions asked.

er, didn't they already release the patch that evens out "the grind"?

Originally posted by Ionik

feed the hype kids.

 

don't stop feeeding  -add's the journey don't stop believing background over it-

 

did I do it right?

 

 

Well, I personally love the game so I don't mind the hype.

At first I thought this was just better textures and lighting.

But it seems like it's the expansion. Or part of it. Well, they added swimming for those who want to swim.

Might be time for a better computer.

Originally posted by Robsolf

They could be better, and starter armor textures and designs are just bad(the pants have yellow halfmoon stripes on the hips, making it look like you're just wearing leather underwear and chaps). 

lol, I was sort fo thinking the same thing. Sort of like a 70's porn star with the chaps and the mustache.

Originally posted by chrisel

Well, I am giving it a real hard try. All because I am a Tolkien fan. I am desperately trying to find me "the" class to play, but it is so hard. They are so "defined" here, you cannot for example, combine dps OR tank in same class, just with different build. So, when I choose the Warden, I feel like "doomed" into low dps, no matter how I do it. (Well, my Warden got better at level 16)

In opposite, I played Paladin & Druid in World of Warcraft, both classes had extreme utility compared to whatsoever class here. And here I go again... rambling about WoW... sorry .

Well, of course I would like to get to end level, but the jounrey there seems more of a struggle, than joy. This makes my thoughts go back to the Anarchy Online days. I was not even close to as impatient as I am now, and AO had slooow leveling...

Well, there is a sort of well known issue with some of the classes that they dont really pick up until late teens and in some cases early 20's. Not sure if I should classify this as being an issue as opposed to something that people have made note of.

To that end, the Champion used to be able to be a secondary tank when you changed stance and made some trait changes. the only reason I didn't see a champion through (as that was my class in the closed betas and part of one of the open betas) was because they felt too squishy. This apparently does change a bit the higher you go but I found the guardian to be more to my liking. I still flirt with the idea of just powering through and making a champion main. I've always been more of a damage dealer by heart.

As a word of encouragement, I've seen lvl 60 wardens in action and they are a sight to behold. I have sometimes been jealous and even created a warden alt. My problem is that I have a hard time remembering the gambits and tend to favor only a few becaus of this. But they are an impressive class when played well.

Originally posted by donjuanamigo

basically all it boils down is to you taking the time to level. there is no instant, i win to get you to max level. if you arent willing to put the time in, then its going to suck. there are classes as people have said that level faster than others, however, you have to decide what you are going to have the most fun playing or you could just end up wasting a lot of time.

I agree with this.

For instance, the Hunter class is supposed to be one of the fastest leveling classes. However, I hate it. I really do. I can never get into it. It could be because they can shoot while facing slightly off and still hit their target. Or that they can shoot from point blank range, switch to melee and then back to bow for point blank range.

But playing a guardian, one of the slower leveling classes, it just clicked and worked for me.

Originally posted by chrisel

Soloing to end game is totally different to participating in end content. Big difference. Any good MMO should have both to offer for end game players; both solo content AND group content. If you ask me, noone should be forced to group to get to end level. That is old fashioned, and it doesnt work nor is it in particular wanted by the average MMO player anymore.

Well, in theory that may be true but in practice it's another thing entirely.

LOTRO offers both solo and group content all the way up. However the large complaint is that there aren't enough people to do the group content or who want to do the group content. It's part of the reason why they are making the main quest line soloable.

Another complaint by group players is that the grouping is spotty. So there might be a quest that requires a group. You then get the group together, do the quest and then everyone leaves saying "thanks, good group".

There is a difference between that type of experience and an experience that allows for players to group at all times with a good reason to do so.

I say "good reason" because though someone like me groups for the enjoyment of it (if it is with clan members or people I know for the most part) regardless of xp, there are players who will leave the group if the xp is not optimum. Which then leads to the complaint that there aren't incentives to group.

And at top level, in lotro, there isn't much to do other than do raids or monster play or craft. You can go back and help lower level players but all in all, I'm not sure that if one is a raider then there is enough to keep him going. Same with monster play if one is a pvp'er.

So there really isn't a reason in LOTRO to rush to level cap. My other thought is that you are on a low pop server? Brandywine always seems to have people in all the zones. Not like it was at launch but quite a few. Also, there are kinships that do a lot with alts. But you being at level cap is probably not going to be what you think it is. Then again, a caveat to that is the next expansion is coming out so there will be some more content. But that should also bring in players who have never been to level cap and so, along with the new players you might also find more players per level grouping.

In any case, I haven't run into the game that has equal grouping and soloing all the way up where the solo players are happy and the grouping players are happy. Which leaves me to believe that this game doesn't exist.

Originally posted by greed0104

Another topic reminded me of this. Jumping. And not because you can do it, I'm more annoyed with how it's used. To be exact, people that spam the jump button when ever they are moving or are just waiting for something.

I have to agree. I hate the jump button. Attach some sort of fatigue system to jump and then I might be on board with all of that jumpin'.

Originally posted by jmsgalla

4.) Point and Click movement systems ( I really hate these for some reason *shrug*)

I've never really understood the whole reason why people hate this. Oh, academically I suppose I do, but there were/are many games that rely upon this type of movement.

Diablo 1 and 2
Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Dragon Age just to throw it in
Dungeon Siege
 

older games that people may remember such as Oni, or Summoner (( think Oni was point and click).

Originally posted by FikusOfAhazi

Originally posted by grandpagamer

Originally posted by Papadam

I agree that being lvl 50 before MoM was very boring and alot of people left back then because lack of "end game".

In my opinion its much better now and grouping is made more important for higher levels and there is now progression after reaching the level cap. I consider lvl 50-60 to be the best content in the game but not every one likes leveling in Moria ;)

Moria is actually pretty cool if you dont mind being lost most of the time  :). In fact, after you wander around lost for a couple of levels the place actually starts to get a bit easier to explore, but your right. I heard a kinsman just the other day say they hated the place and would try and level without ever going back in.

 

To me that's just the way Moria should be. Although, it's not quite for the same reasons as it should be. If you played before they changed the old forest, You didnt 'want' to go there, just as in the books, the Hobbits didnt want to go in there. And it really captured the same reasons and feelings the the book portrayed. It was an amazing thing to experience in a video game. Games don't have to be all fun, just like movies don't have to be comedies.  It was a shame to see it changed.

Moria is 'sort of like that', but it's not the same. Good expansion, loved seeing a virtual moria and going through it, but the game has a different feel to it now. Im hoping it's just because of  making so much content in moria kinda of made moria hard to "lose yourself" in the way other areas in the old game did. Hope the next installment will get back to the original feel, or an even better one. The content and art were amazing though. If you are a Tolkien fan, this will probably be the only virtual middle earth, and for the most part, it is extremely well done. Don't get many chances as gamers to experience that.

As a point of note, when I got to speak to Steefel at Pax, he mentioned the "old forest" incident.

The person who designed the original old forest, the one that you and I liked, was a more old school gamer. After people started to complain, Steefel went to the designer and told him that "no", getting lost is not fun for many people. So he was asked to redesign it.

I have to say that I enjoyed moria but it really wasn't what I wanted. I wanted a giant mine where I could get lost, where there was danger around and not grand central statioin where everywhere I looked there was some player running past or fighting a mob. If the world of middle earth were real and I passed someone stuck in moria fighting a worg, I would be rusning to his/her aid. But in "game middle earth" That's his mob so don't interfere.

Same with the goat travel system. Cute, but I think that if the free people's had more of these goats they would surely have won the war without needing to destroy the ring. After all, if I'm on one of these goats I can whiz right by all the big baddies and they don't even see me or ignore me.