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All Posts by aesperus

All Posts by aesperus

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Originally posted by sumdumguy1
Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by Classicstar

Originally posted by PioneerStew
My thoughts on the subject: -


They went for an extremely casual game design- and the problem is that when players are not invested in a game they are unlikely to drop money on the cash shop.    

The living story was also an odd decision in a B2P monetisation model as it costs money to produce and makes little back (particularly when it is only an hour/ two hours of content a fortnight, it isn't going to keep people in the game very long or compel them to spend in the cs). They could have used the same resources to make a larger expansion/ DLC and then sold it, as they did in GW1  

Ive not spent one cent in cashshop. In my humble opnion i rather would have payed a monthly subscription then ever spent money in cashshop.

Yeah, the cash shop is crap as well.  Take aesthetic items as an example.  Every time you change a piece of armour you have to buy some cs token to alter its appearance; as a result the vast majority of people who aren't at cap are never going to bother with cosmetic items because they become a chore rather than a pleasure.  

If they had just made a costume tab, and made it free to use they could have then sold costume pieces on the cs and people might actually buy them.  I know I certainly would have.  

I have looked at the rest of the cs and there is just a plethora of potions and boosts, and I just don't know or care what they do.  I can't be bothered looking at them all to find out let alone buying them.  The range of items and the related systems are unecessarily complex; and if you want to sell stuff you should make it easy for the buyer.   

What you describe with the transmutation charge with the skins is unforgivable  You buy a skin but its not a cover, it takes on your current armors stats, then you have to buy additional stuff to take the skins off that armor.  I can not tell you how many issues have come up and upset players.  I have used the cash up but only to upgrade my bank to an additional slot.  The whole skins debacle and listening to what people have gone through has left me sour on the cash shop.

The transmutation thing is indeed kind of annoying, but it doesn't work exactly how you described. And indeed it's actually better than the old system once you understand it (except for the fact that you could sometimes randomly get transmutation stones as a drop in the past. Though maybe they'll do the same w/ charges in the future).

When you buy a skin off the store it isn't unlocked yet. You get an item mailed to you. You then can choose when you want to apply it, and what item you want to apply it to. So if you want specific stats, u can then craft / buy an exotic (or w/e) with the stats you want, and THEN apply the skin.

The transmutation charges literally work like transmute stones. The difference is that you now have all your unlocked skins 'stored' to use whenever. You don't have to buy a new weapon with a skin you want every time you want to transmute. It's just saved in your wardrobe tab for future use. You still have to transmute to apply the skin (just like u needed to use the stones when the game first launched), but you can reapply that same skin (regardless of where it came from) as many times as you have charges.

You can also (just like the rest of the shop) still use in-game currency to buy charges. And making money in this game is really not that hard (I played for a day yesterday, first time in about a year, and I made 20g without even really trying).

Originally posted by Meowhead
Originally posted by Dakeru

I'm a bit puzzled now.

I didn't see Anet agreeing that they are financially underperforming.

Every other company is having big layoffs and Anet is still hiring people instead and you point that out as something negative.


Is your post meant to be ironic and we just didn't get it?

Well, all those companies with big layoffs are obviously making enough money they can afford the severance packages.

While Arenanet is losing so much money they are desperately hiring lots of extra employees in an attempt to keep from going under, which is pretty standard business practice.

It makes more sense when you think about it that way.


How many of those laid off do you actually believe got a severance package. Most don't. Furthermore, I don't know if you're trying to be sarcastic, but hiring employees to 'keep from going under' is not only an incredibly stupid idea, but far from standard business practice. Unless you're job is to deliberately tank companies. Except, even then they typically do it by gouging the company's employee base, to maximize profits, and then liquidate it after it has no chance to recover.

I'm not sure what world you're living in, but I hope you didn't pay for that business degree ;p

Originally posted by Dakeru

I'm a bit puzzled now.

I didn't see Anet agreeing that they are financially underperforming.

Every other company is having big layoffs and Anet is still hiring people instead and you point that out as something negative.


Is your post meant to be ironic and we just didn't get it?

I honestly don't think he read his own link.

I think he got to the second paragraph, where it says in bold 'Anet sales dropped after initial launch' and called it a day.

A lot of people do that on these forums. They want to make a point, so they find something they think backs up their own point, and link to it as proof, without actually reading / listening to the full thing to make sure it actually says what they assume it does.

Originally posted by goboygo
Originally posted by Gretelda
bad idea.

Your right, creating a class someone might like to play is definitely a "bad idea".  You have a way with words my friend.

You can read my post (or various others on this thread) if you want the reasons as to why it's a bad idea.

He may not have elaborated, but that doesn't mean he's wrong either.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

I see this statement a lot now days that Quest in MMOs are generic.

Well I have to ask. What kind of quest entertains you?

What quest are not generic?

What video game had quest that wasnt generic?

And If you want better quest, at lease explain what would make them better.

Honestly, it doesn't really matter either way.

People (for the most part) ignore all quests regardless of how well they are done. And then they complain about them being generic. Which has created a sort of 'chicken and egg' problem.

Most games now have a large amount of standard / generic quests for 2 reasons.

1) With literally 100s of thousands of quests created nowadays (probably even more than that), how many truly unique quests can you actually have. It only makes sense that most of those quests would be similar, if not complete repeats of one another.

2) With most people skipping your content anyway, is it really worth putting the time into making a really deep / involved / interesting quest, that maybe 50 people will actually pay attention to?

So who's at fault? The overexposed gamers who are ignoring the content? or the developer who is tired of wasting ideas on people who aren't paying attention to them in the first place?

Personally, I have witnessed at least 1 good (non generic) quest in every game. If I had to pick one game that jumped out, it would probably be TSW. The reason being that that is one of the few games that actually requires you to pay attention to complete many of their quests. GW2 had some good ones, as did AoC / SWTOR / ESO. But all of these games have also had a lot of generic ones as well.

And that's really the point. All games have a mix of both. It just depends which each individual gamer pay attention to. If they rush through the game, they only see the 'kill X of Y' quests. If they ever stop to pay attention to what they are doing, they may notice the exceptionally well written / thought out quest.

Originally posted by Beelzebobbie
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by fardreamer
quad, i keep telling people, quad is the way to go, as in tank, dps, heal and control. sometimes i do not understand why control is not seen as a more valuable class. without a control/support class most encounters end up being tank & spank.

The problem is that tanks work in PvE but not so well in PvP since the game wont allow you to taunt other players as well.

A defensive build or class is fine, throwing up earthwalls, body block, trap, throwback and similar are fine since they work for both types of gameplay, but tanking usually involves taunts which besides PvP neither works well in massive combat (with like 100 players as world bosses).

You do have offense, defense and support in real battles as well. It works there and it works in games. Taunts doesn't.

And having a single player constantly standing and keeping the boss busy while one person heals him and the rest skill rotate most possibly damage just makes a rather predictable combat, forcing player to switch just makes things more interesting even if certain builds will make you more effective as one thing and you might spend 75% of the combat doing just that.

I think you are right and wrong, sure tanking in wvw doesn't work however in Spvp/Tpvp it works pretty well but not in the same way as a boss fight in a dungeon in wow. But the bunker builds are in many way a tank roll. With my warrior or engineer I charge in on a controll point and I don't do a ton of damage but I have around 31k of health and alot of toughness. Sure most classes can kill but it takes alot of time and in spvp you don't have a lot of time. 

**snip for length**

I just feel that the "no trinity" in GW2 still has alot of trinity in other forms and I feel if people would take the time then they can find alot of interesting builds out there which are just as good as a zerker. People usually say that everyone in GW2 are just zerkers running around but I must say that I have no troubles finding groups for anything and I have no zerker class at all. I do all the dungeons and everything else without a problem. There are many groups who don't have "LFG zerkers only". 

The thing is, bunker builds aren't really tanking, it is a form of support though. You aren't absorbing hits for allies. Bunkering is all about keeping enemies off of a capture point. Area control, if u will. It only works if u can keep others off your capture point, otherwise they can just knock you off and ignore you.

I agree with you 100% on your last paragraph.

GW2 definitely has it's own trinity (offense, control, support/utility). However it's not 'the holy trinity', because no class specializes. No matter what you're build is, you're always combining at least 2 of those elements. However, you are absolutely right that if more people took the time, they would find a lot if really interesting (and effective) builds within the game. The problem I mostly find with other players and this game, is that they keep trying to play GW2 like it's WoW. For obvious reasons this doesn't work, but when you try and enlighten them about this, they either refuse to listen or can't understand.

The zerker groups are a real thing, but they're essentially speed run groups. There are a lot of groups who don't speed run. You just need to look (or god forbid, make a group yourself). Nowadays, you have speed run groups in every game. Regardless of if it's a trinity or not. Every game will have a perceived 'optimal' group comp for any given dungeon. And whatever class doesn't fall into that comp usually gets left out. However, this breeds a ton of ignorance, in that a lot of people don't even attempt other comps, because they assume they don't work. Which is usually bullsh*@.

Originally posted by DR4296
Originally posted by Brynn
I couldn't beat Molag Bal, so I quit. Believe me, I tried several ways, died several times. I know others didn't have a problem, so it's my lack of ability.


I have a friend who quit / unsubscribed for the same reason.  Says he simply does not have the physical dexterity to do the button-smashing required to bring Molag Bal down.

Depending on his class, it's most likely a build problem.

Since you're buffed the entire time during the Molag Bal fight, you really only need 2 things for the fight to be a joke.

1) Ranged attacks (just kite him forever)

2) Sustain (self heals / regen / potions / etc.)

Certain classes can do this better than others, but all can make this fight trivial by using a resto staff (channeled damage & mana regen from the auto attack) and class skills. Heck, if you're a sorcerer they can straight up break the fight, as you can repeatedly hit the guy for thousands of damage a second, while also healing yourself for thousands of health a second (effectively making you invincible).

Originally posted by Classicstar

Game should have focussed on what it supposed to be dynamic events in open world not dungeons runs.

Also should have kept the difficulty as it was in first beta weekend.

Reasons i quit was dumb down so it was easy and dungeon grind and result empty world.

Ive played beta weekends which where great and 5 months into launched game. But when world was empty and only saw people running mist dungeon i quit.

Shame i liked GW2 and thought it was great looking diverse game world one of the best under water worlds and combats(which btw also so many complained about sadly) no i won't ever comeback.

I still have my charr statue standing here. Yes i payed 150 euros for collectors edition only because i realy believed in this game but was betrayed by devs and gamers who only whined and complain result dumb down and grind dungeons which i hate.

Now i don't believe in MMO'S anymore sadly:(

Thus far every recent major update has centered around dynamic events, and giant open-world boss fights.

Heck the new zone is literally just a series of boss fights, jumping puzzles, and dynamic events.

I agree with you on dungeon difficulty (too many babies whined about it), but there is still some challenge (though mostly from fractals). However, aside from dungeons the rest of the game is what you just said u wanted.

So, who knows what you're actually looking for.

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

I found this article from a few months back on eurogamer.

and while the game is still running, people at NC soft agree the game is underperforming financially after the initial release.   

Sure there is a payed expansion pack upcomming, which will sell big, but its not even announced yet, so my best bet is a late 2015 release. Their current shop items do not sell well,  real money exchange slowly drops in numbers. They are selling story parts now to people that havent logged in timely...  Indicating they broke their promise of free content updates a lttle..

with an expansion pack so far away, it just got me wondering how they want to make money to pay their current bills, after all they still have 350 people working on the game...

No offense... but have u actually read the article?

Not only is that article written before the game launched in China (which appears to have actually been a big success), but the one point you focus on is only referencing to their sales numbers dropping since launch.

Something that literally EVERY game goes through. Immediately after that Anet talks about how their sales numbers were dropping, but they weren't dropping nearly as quickly as they had predicted. Which is a good thing.

- As for numbers from their actual cash shop, I haven't seen any real figures. Last I checked the exchange rate for gems hasn't fluctuated drastically in either direction (which indicates that around the same amount of gems are still being purchased and traded in game). I know there are quite a few items in the shop that I personally have no interest in. And I wouldn't be surprised if most others didn't either. However, they do have some stuff in there that I know a lot of people wanted (like some of their PvP finishers, and some of the skins).

Honestly, I logged in a few days ago just to check out the new content. Not only has the game changed a lot, (though the core gameplay is still the same) but there are still a ton of people playing, even though my server has dropped down to like the 8-10th slot tier-wise.

If this is a game that's supposed to be dying, it looks to be in MUCH better shape than most other mmos on the market currently. It may not appeal to everyone, but it definitely doesn't appear to be struggling. And if you are to trust your own article, Anet's hiring as well, which indicates growth.

Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC

I feel like they could add a true healing class to this game now. I don't feel like it would create a "Trinity", but it would give players like myself a reason to make an alternate character. I would really love to see a buffing/healing class added to the game.

Give them just enough DPS to do some solo leveling in PvE and I would be set. I mostly play WvWvW so leveling would be no problem. I just really want to see a full healing class added to this game. I feel that is the only thing that is missing for me.

Just, no.

For one, classes like Elementalist, Engineer, and Guardian do more pleanty of group healing already (if you know what you're doing). And they also function as buffers. Guardians & Elemenetalists being slightly moreso, whereas Engineer is more group utility, healing, and damage.

Introducing specialized roles, of any kind, goes against the entire design of GW2. Not to mention what the game was built for. You can set up any class to focus on one aspect over the others, but the whole game is built around builds & counter builds. Learning what 'skills' an enemy is going to be using, and setting up / sequencing your own to counter them. Having specialized classes just dumbs this whole idea down. Effectively making the game more about do you have class X to counter class Y.

I know the trinity is 'familiar', and easily understood by everyone (including most peopl's children), but that doesn't make it a necessity. The 2 main excuses I see for 'why a trinity is necessary' are as follows:

1) Combat is too zergy, and the trinity would add structure to it. Which is bs, because it doesn't matter what class design you have, if you have 100 people attacking 1 boss, it's a zerg. FFXIV:ARR has shown this quite clearly.

2) Combat is too chaotic. This complaint mostly coming from players who don't understand how the combat in this game works, and don't want to actually learn. All of the boss fights in GW2 are fairly controllable. Even with unconventional setups. What it comes down to is understanding the classes in your group, what skills they can use for any given fight, and what abilities the boss is going to use. Heck, most fights currently are done by zerker groups. Groups of players who understand the fight mechanics and how to avoid taking too much damage, and just DPS burning them down. A healer class won't change that, because these people don't need a pocket healer. They know how to minimize their damage intake, and can self-heal through it.

- TL;DR So lets look at this thoroughly. What would adding a specialized healer actually do to this game?

- It would give players used to a trinity a comfort class (one that's familiar)

- It would give newer players a crutch to make the combat in the game easier, so they don't have to learn how to avoid taking damage properly.

- It would add a class few groups would actually want in dungeons (because they'd rather have the damage to do the content they can already people quickly). Though it might be more beneficial in high lvl fractals, hard to say.

- It would completely trash WvW. Because nothing is more boring than two armies that don't die, because they have an endless supply of healing keeping them alive.

- It would effectively break sPvP. Again, because you would have situations where people wouldn't die. You could effectively place a healer & any durable class with knockbacks on a capture point, and just play golf with players trying to cap that point all day.

So here you have 2 benefits, at the cost of 3 major downsides (2 of them effecting large portions of the game). Is it really that worth it? Guardians can already heal an obscene amount, as can people who know how to properly combo water fields. Why do you feel u know more healing than that?

1) Twitch is not a good indicator of which games are the most popular. When something is high up on twitch, it's due to the following reasons:

a) The more popular streamers are currently playing that game

b) It's new

c) It's being botted

d) They've gotten twitch to make them a featured game temporarily.

There are numerous games that float to the top of twitch, which are clearly not what most people are playing. And upon checking them out, you'll realize that certain streamers have a ridiculously large following, and could make minesweeper look like the next hot thing if they wanted to.

2) I hate to say it, but Blizzard is not the same developer it used to be. They have shown that they are no longer interested in making games of the same caliber. They are more interested in making popular games (ones that sell) than ones that are good. Hearthstone is a pretty clear example of this. Tbh the last really solid game Blizzard released was Starcraft II. And that game they've even tried dumbing parts down, but the competitive scene for it prevents them doing so outside of the single-player campaign.

Originally posted by Gorwe

I just wanted to check if I am the only one here who loved GW 1 and can't stand GW 2. I'll accept the reverse as well(hated GW, love GW 2). Please use the examples.

Thank you!

I enjoy both but for different reasons.

The skill system in GW1 was one of my favorites of any RPG. Though I would've loved to see a more action-oriented version of it; the strategy was insanely fun, especially on my Mesmer.

GW2 I love what they did with the world, and the combat is indeed quite fun (especially w/ combat mod). Though I wish there was more variety in some of the skills, especially when it comes to the weapons. Allowing for a 'loadout' per weapon, in which u can choose from maybe a set of 10-15 skills (3 of them being auto-attack chains), based around various potential uses for the weapon, would be much better imho. That way you could do things like have a sword bleed spec, or a sword power spec, or an interrupt spec, or a counter attack spec, that is actually optimised for you the build you are going for. Rather than having a build (that's adjust as best you can via traits), and then uses whatever weapon fits closest to what you're going for, and living w/ the wasted parts of the skills (like bleed procs on a build that doesn't use condition dmg).

I also miss the complexity behind how elements, curses, hexes, enchantments, stances, and conditions worked. It added depth to the combat of GW1, there were multiple counters to any given build, and understanding this was pretty important. In GW2 it's a lot more streamlined. It's still fun to play, but feels a bit too simple at times. There is indeed a lot of customization you can do in GW2 (many of which most players never notice), but in the end most of it feels fairly minor. There are a handful of viable specs that significantly change how you play a given character. Everything else is just minor tweaks / preference.

Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by DavisFlight
Originally posted by Distopia

A tiny handful of games that are run by underfunded (or completely unfunded) volunteer forces is not really an actual choice. If you want a non themepark with an actual budget, your only real option is Eve.

Games like Ryzom traded hands so many times and went through so many overhauls that most people never got to get rooted into it. Wurm didn't actually launch until recently. Kickstarter projects aren't anywhere cloes to done. It's pretty much just Darkfall that managed to carve out a successful PvP niche without funding.

There is no real choice. If you want an MMO made by people with experience and even the semblance of a budget, you have to play a WoW clone.

The point still stands EVE started out in much the same manner, it only grew into something more because people supported that growth. CCP grew as well....Darkfall, Ryzom (changed hands because it got no player support), Xsyon, etc.. Could have or could have had that same growth given the chance. Yet they didn't get it, a AAA version of those isn't going to happen without some form of precedence to do so.

This ^

It still amazes me how many people overlook this. Most niche games that have become successful, only got that way because people 'stick it out' and supported the game (and it's developer) through the startup process. Most of these games start out with very few features, and are subpar in multiple areas. Though, after some time, if the developer is competent, you start to see significant improvements to the game.

This is how MMOs in particular have always been. The only difference is that we now expect every game to launch perfect. And most of us refuse to support games that have features / ideas we like, but are a bit rough at launch. And then of course, we turn around and complain that no games have features we like.

[mod edit]
Originally posted by DamonVile
Wouldn't all that apply to the people not on this site. The people here don't play anything.

Sadly accurate OP.

And ^ LOL.

It's true, people on this site seem more interested in b*tching about how game X isn't the messiah they expected, how established game Y is actually a failure, and how no games are 'true' sandboxes unless you go back to the caveman days and play w/ stones.

Originally posted by rojoArcueid
Originally posted by BailoPan15


other than that TESO but its quite underperforming and the combat is really nothing compared to TERA.

IMO, Tera has better targetting than ESO, but ESO has way better combat. The problem with ESO combat is, again, the targetting, effectively making it a tab target game hiding behind a reticle. Tera has really good targetting but the combat, oh god... i dont want to see an other game with such poorly implemented ¨action¨

Wait, huh?!

How is TERA's targetting better than ESO, or even visa versa. They are literally the same thing (retical based with option lock-on). I know the combat behaves quite differently between the two, but that's not the same as the targetting mechanism.

Originally posted by Rayzer235
You guys realize the bonus armor is just Heavy armor dyed differently right? Also these armors are for the tournament players that play in the tournament.

This ^

Found it funny as well that everyone's gushing over the bonus armor & bashing the other 3, when the bonus armor is literally the same skin, just with (what looks like Abyssal?) black dye applied to it, lol.

I guess that's how most of the armor skins in this game work, though. The majority of them look kinda 'meh' with the default skin applied, but as soon as you apply the right custom dyes to it it's 'holy crap! where did u find that dye?!?!' 'whelp.. u can buy it pretty easily in lion's arch, I just dyed it black'.

Originally posted by Spankster77

I for one am in favor of adding variety.  Just because a raid is 10 man or 20 man doesn't mean that it needs to be easier, it just needs less people.  As most of us who played WoW seen 10 man raiding for the most part destroyed 25 man raiding because it's simply easier to organize.  I am for variety if, a 10 man raid is just as difficult as the 20 man version and rewards similar loot then most people will pick the 10 man.


This is why I support a variety of raids with similar difficulty, something like blizzard did in TBC.  You had 10 man and 25 man raid instances both rewarding the same tier loot but you weren't forced to raid either and in fact most guilds did both.

The problem is that raiding is somewhat problematic by design.

For one, a large part of the difficulty of raiding comes from organizing a large group of players. Once you do that and know the fights it becomes fairly easy again (if not drama-packed on occasion).

Secondly, to have raids you need incentives. And this has always been 'you get the best gear in the game'. As long as that is the incentive to raid, you can't really have a variety. People who are interesting in raids (at all), always want to go after the best loot. They want to progress as far as possible, and be the 'top PvE players'.

Having variety in your raids (while I do agree with it), becomes irrelevant with this incentive in place. Either raid X gives the best loot, or it doesn't. And if it doesn't, you can bet that fewer and fewer people will actually run it. You see this in every game that does raiding. The current 'best' raids (with the best loot) get run repeatedly, and all the old ones start to catch more and more dust and neglect.


Originally posted by deavyin
Originally posted by aesperus

This has been information that various dev studios have known for years.

Raids just aren't that popular. They cater to the top 1-5% of your game. This is why fewer and fewer games have been offering them as a selling point. It's another example of a feature that devs have hard evidence to support its worth, and we (as gamers) keep claiming 'its dumb that they don't offer this feature because I like it'.

To compound the problem, look at how raids function. If they don't offer the best loot, they 'aren't worth doing' and thus, the majority of players ignore them.

So the design forces itself into a catch-22. Either you make raids less important (in which case people don't do them), thus allowing the 95-99% of your playerbase that are non-raiders still enjoy the game on a competitive level. Or you please the raiders, make raiding the ultimate gear progression, and alienate most of your playerbase.

There may be a few designs that would help ease this issue, but I've yet to see any games incorperate them. And even still, that's not to say that there wouldn't still be a population problem, because gamers will still bitch about raiding (either it's too much, or not enough) because that's just what we do.

- Honestly, this whole problem comes from the skinner-box gear grind design mentallity. Everyone wants the best shiny, and the idea of getting it makes them feel like they're enjoying the game. Take it away, and they feel empty, or that the game isn't worth playing anymore.

if you design games that aren't based around obtaining better & better loot, it eliminates many of these problems. However, it's also almost certainly going to be a less successful game, because we've been indoctrinated to enjoy skinner-box models.

So, what you are saying is that we need a uber successful sandbox game to shift the MMO paradigm away from themepark mode.  Like, a MMO Minecraft where we work together to build the world, literally.


That would be sweet.

That would certainly be one way of doing it. And a lot of developers are indeed trying what you just mentioned (EQN, Trove, etc.)

I wouldn't look at it as themepark vs. sandbox, though. In a way those are basically just content delivery mechanisms. It really doesn't matter whether a game is a sandbox, themepark, sandpark, or themebox. What matters it what drives people to play the game. As long as its loot (gear, w/e), it will have the same issues I mentioned. Even if it's a sandbox, thempark, or any other type of design.

What needs to happen (imho) is a game that focuses more on resources, where loot is less important; and it's more about what you do with the features in the game (how you customize you're character, what you build, what you destroy, etc.) that drive the gameplay. There are some games that have tried this, but they've been mostly unpopular.

The problem, again, goes back to people being used to the skinner-box model, and being 'addicted' (for lack of a better word) to constantly obtaining better loot.

This has been information that various dev studios have known for years.

Raids just aren't that popular. They cater to the top 1-5% of your game. This is why fewer and fewer games have been offering them as a selling point. It's another example of a feature that devs have hard evidence to support its worth, and we (as gamers) keep claiming 'its dumb that they don't offer this feature because I like it'.

To compound the problem, look at how raids function. If they don't offer the best loot, they 'aren't worth doing' and thus, the majority of players ignore them.

So the design forces itself into a catch-22. Either you make raids less important (in which case people don't do them), thus allowing the 95-99% of your playerbase that are non-raiders still enjoy the game on a competitive level. Or you please the raiders, make raiding the ultimate gear progression, and alienate most of your playerbase.

There may be a few designs that would help ease this issue, but I've yet to see any games incorperate them. And even still, that's not to say that there wouldn't still be a population problem, because gamers will still bitch about raiding (either it's too much, or not enough) because that's just what we do.

- Honestly, this whole problem comes from the skinner-box gear grind design mentallity. Everyone wants the best shiny, and the idea of getting it makes them feel like they're enjoying the game. Take it away, and they feel empty, or that the game isn't worth playing anymore.

if you design games that aren't based around obtaining better & better loot, it eliminates many of these problems. However, it's also almost certainly going to be a less successful game, because we've been indoctrinated to enjoy skinner-box models.

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