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All Posts by aesperus

All Posts by aesperus

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Originally posted by Satarious
Originally posted by Gendark

Proof that in cyrodiil there is small scale(3-4people) group fights  and not only big zeging pvp battles. Cyrodiil is so large that even 4 people group can try to cut keep reinforcements and defend choke points.

Anyway the first fight in this video is very nice for a low lvl characters in the betaweekend and involves the 3 alliances.

Also love how a melee sorcerer can be a viable spec choice in this game :)

FINALLY!  A more realistic video in which they seem to be about equal level and aren't dropping enemy players in a split second like I've seen in previous videos.  It's not legit when you out level your enemy by more than 5 levels or so, as far as I'm concerned.

indeed!

Originally posted by jazz.be

Pretty cool video. Shows how we're not limited to one "class" or "class armor".

The Sorcerer seems to be wearing heavy armor or medium armor, which traditionally is not typical wizard/staff armor.

And it appears to be possible to lock on a target as well?

The target lock is a soft lock.

You might even think of it like a focus target. It won't make you automatically home in on your target. However it will keep a target highlighted (and therefor easier to keep track of). Also if you get you're cursor somewhat close to the target it will adjust your camera towards your focus.

One of the main reasons PvP seems to give more exp, is that the PvE content is currently capped. There isn't any real content to take you passed ~15ish in PvE.

The quests you do for each of the 3 currently available dungeons, while you can only do them once, give you ~ a lvl each (or close to it), plus a nice piece of gear.

Once the rest of the game becomes available, the numbers will change. And PvP is definitelly not the 'only' viable way to lvl. It just might seem like it at the moment. Farming mobs does add up quite fast (and vendoring the drops also adds up pretty fast), though I personally find that method a bit boring. There's also farming Dark Anchors, which yield a surprisingly large amount of Exp, and spawn fairly often. Hopping between 2 seems to be enough to constantly be engaging in the events.

Originally posted by Mardukk
Originally posted by BillMurphy
Originally posted by jazz.be

Have you tried playing in group? Like running from one keep to another with 30 or 40 people around you?

I can imagine it gets boring when you do it alone, in fact nothing in the PVP zone is designed for solo play. 

Not 100% true. There are five small towns (that echo towns from Oblivion), like Bruma.  Each of these has repeatable PVE quests, skyshards, and more.  There's plenty of small-group, solo stuff.  But in a live campaign, you'll need to be careful.

I was hoping to PvE in the PvP zone for more challenge and hopefully better loot and or distinctive loot that won't drop in the safe no risk PvE world.  Good to hear there are some distinctive PvE mobs, hopefully they will add more to do in the future.

They are still tweaking the loot, but (in the current public beta build), some of the loot you can get in PvP is definitely better than what you find in the currently available PvE content.

Lots of people have been finding purple items, and set items that are crazy good. That said, that is supposed to change once we have access to the full game. So who knows how it will even out.

I've gotta say, very well done article.

Really seems to do a good job of covering multiple views of the same topic, and I have to agree with a lot of them. While I do like some of the living story updates, they definitely seem like many of them could've been implemented better. The pacing, while it does a decent job of making players feel like they need to keep up, it also doesn't seem to help people hold interest in the characters, in the long run.

Furthermore, a lack of having content that permanently affects the world (I know they've added some, but it still doesn't feel like enough), makes the living story updates feel 'tacked on', and diminishes their sense of relevance.

While the OP is right about some of the things, I just have to LOL at them overall.

ESO uses world reknown actors to do their voice acting. MMORPG.com forums - 'voice acting is completely garbage'. I mean, hell, they even have frikkin' dumbledor doing some of the voices. I guess some people are just never happy.

The writing, as well, is overall some of the best I've seen in an MMO. Doesn't stop people from skipping 90% of it, but that doesn't make it bad.

PvP being symmetrical? Yes and no. The keeps are (on paper, at least). This is, of course, not taking into account the differences in layout / terrain. From top-down (map perspective), they are indeed symmetrical, though. However, all the other objectives in the map are fairly asymmetrical. Thus adding depth, and a more 'natural' feeling to the map. However, this is probably the most 'valid' complaint the OP actually makes.

Literally everything else just comes across to me like whinning for the sake of whinning. It basically reads like 'all the features are garbage, because I don't like them'.

Game definitely has flaws, but the more they tweak the game, the more it seems to me like some people are just grasping at reasons to hate.

Originally posted by Elikal
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Its oldfashioned MMO, try and figure out for yourself..

 

next month we will see an explosion of youtube guides... So why spending money on ingame tutorials

You seriously think that is good advise for a 200-300 million dollar expensive Triple A MMO? To "let people figure out"?

Is that really so bad?

It's not like the information is all that difficult to come by. And it promotes players to communicate & work together in chat, instead of ignoring one another, like in most other MMOs.

So many games go out of their way to hold the hands of the players. I believe I've even seen you, yourself talk about games doing this. And becoming 'too easy / dumbed down' as a result. Part of having more interesting / challenging games is asking players to start taking more initiative and figuring things out on their own.

There's no mystery / exploration in constantly following an arrow on your screen. But we have plenty of games that do that if people want that.

- Heck, people are already whining about the tutorials the game already has.

Yes, clearly the map is completely empty.

You can tell because there's some space in between the pile of icons in the middle of the map. There really is just nothing to do.

I'm sorry, but for someone who has spent an entire weekend in Cyrodiil (and apparently has found nothing but deep water), you really must not have been looking.

Again, refer to the map linked above. The map is literally COVERED with stuff. Even if you disable all the crafting nodes people have found, it's still extremely full. To the point where there really isn't much room for other things.

So, here is what you've overlooked:

PvE

- Dungeons. I know you said you tried a couple you couldn't get into? But there are ~20+ public dungeons in Cyrodiil (the torch icons). Individually they aren't huge, but there's a ton of them. You can find players around them and inside them, and the enemies aren't pushovers either. As a downleveled player it's very difficult to solo through them without dying.

- Quests. There's tons of quests sprinkled all over Cyrodiil. A few of them send you literally travelling across the map. There are also numerous quest 'HUB's, of repeatable quests. Including a few NPC-driven towns (like Bruma).

- Skyshards. Theres tons them around Cyrodiil. I forget the exact number, but I think it's around 30-45 of them in total.

- Caves. Similar to the dungeons, but you don't need to zone in.

- Dark Anchors. These are also sprinkled all over the map, and they happen often. You can't really solo them, but if you get a group together they are a ton of fun. I've even had a few PvP battles centered around them.

- Elite Monsters / Bosses. Some of these are found near the bridges to the Imperial City. For example on the western bridge I found some Imperials trying to fight a Balrog & some daedric deamons. I wanted to jump in and fight, but then I thought better of it. There's also at least one dragon that's been found. I even found the Ice Troll King near Bruma. He kicked my arse.

PvP

- Large Scale battles. You see a keep on fire w/ swords on it. You head in that direction. 9/10 times you will find yourself in the thick of a huge fight. Provided you don't wait around 20-40minutes to get there.

- Medium Scale battles. There are dozens of smaller objectives to be taken. Take some buddies & capture them! There are repeatable PvP missions that often take you deep into enemy territory. And doing so without dying is nothing short of thrilling. The run back makes you really want to avoid dying, and doing so deep in enemy territory can be a big challenge. They tend to attract friends when you kill them =/.

These can also be achieved by forming gank groups (which a lot of people have been doing). Or going after PvE objectives like Dark Anchors, in enemy territories.

- Small Skirmishes. Too laggy, or too 'zergy' in the large fights? Simple. Go to any of the 100+ PvE objectives in an enemy territory. Camp their sky shards. Sneak up to a quest HUB and look for solo players. This happens A LOT. I've had pleanty of duels in Cyrodiil doing exactly this.

** Again, not to be rude, but I just don't see how someone can spend 2-3 entire days in Cyrodiil and completely MISS all of the above. You can literally have all scales of PvP from the small (1v1) to the large (100v100v100) in Cyrodiil, provided you're using you're head and going to the areas with the combat you want to partake in. If you don't like the large fights, and want smaller ones DON'T go to an enemy's keep / scroll-room alone looking for a fight. It's an objective literally that entire alliance covets and is willing to defend. You will be lucky to find a 1 on 1 fight doing that. Go for smaller, more personal objectives. If you want larger fights, well those aren't really all that difficult to find.

I'm sorry, but complaining that Cyrodiil has nothing to do, is a bit like going to a Super Market and complaining that there's nothing to eat. The map's literally flooded with content.

I had fun doing much of the same.

Especially around quest HUBs & the PvP public dungeons. Even had a few awesome fights around dark anchors.

- To those worried about the stealth. It's a good thing the way it is implemented. It's not the same as WoW / EQ stealth, for example. You aren't completely invisible to everyone.

Stealth in this game is based on range / LOS. If someone is looking at you from a distance, they WILL spot you if you aren't careful. Especially if they are using Mage Light (which increases detection range). And that's the beauty of it. It forces you to use the terrain (rocks, trees, shadows) to actually sneak up on people. Instead of just popping stealth and running around w/ out a care in the world.

Originally posted by psiic

I am a huge supporter of ESO, but honestly zenimax needs to grow a brain. 

Pushing another beta weekend without a client side patch to show some progress this close to release was a moronic move.

All this weekend is doing is showing how badly the game is still broken, and how little progress they are making.

I really just wanna kick someone over there in the balls for this one.

A lot of the people I had convinced to give it a chance are now questioning zenimax's experience and ability to actually release a stable solid client in less than 30 days.

Really stupid marketing guys.

I'm not going to disagree that the marketting dept. @ Zenimax needs to improve on a LOT of things.

However, this is an actual beta. Not a marketting / press beta. They have stated this time, and time again. These are STRESS TESTS. So what has changed from this beta to last? They went out and bought a bunch of new servers, and made some number tweaks & bug fixes.

The PTS is where they are testing the rest of the game, and you can look for that info online if you are curious. It's available, though we can't post it on these forums.

This is why certain people should avoid playing (actual) betas. They aren't always free trials. Sometimes they are actually being used to test / improve the game.

So let me get this straight:

You and you're freinds (who range from moderately disliking the Elder Scrolls IP, to having zero interest in the games) decided to pick up Elder Scrolls Online! Because other people are liking the game.

Logging into the beta you find that it not only behaves like other Elder Scrolls games, but also behaves like an MMO. Naturally, once comfirming that it indeed plays like the franchise you guys already know you don't really care much for, you decide it's important to hop onto the internets and get the word out! So that other people who dislike the Elder Scrolls games, but for some reason still think it's a good idea to play the MMO, can avoid being fooled by the masses!

OP, you're a true patriot, and i thank you for informing us, that if we do not like Elder Scrolls; It might not be a good idea to play Elder Scrolls the MMO. You have just saved years of my life. Thank you.

 

Originally posted by thark

After playing the beta weekend I felt bad, because I have more/less made several of my friends order this game on the idea that we would play this game. It really looks good by looking at videos and previews etc, but the reality is Another story, atleast for the starter Island.

At starter Island and prison  the game is ok at best in the overall adventure feel

So ..My question is ...Is the game any better after the starter Island ?

Atlest in regards to these issues

 

1 TRAPS ..Is the traps going to be totally visible (like it is on the starter Island) Its not a trap if its visible and only thing you need to do is walk on the side of it or jump. and if you for some reason step inside a trap you are hardly damaged anyway.

2 QUEST POINTERS... Is there Always going to be quest Arrows leading you to every possible location in a quest ? Really exiting to obtain Dwemer gear pieces when they are market exactly where they are on the map..!!!?? The clue here is to write better clues in the journal not give the players an Arrow on the map.  And make the Arrows optional if there are folks that needs them.

Sure there are errands that are just that errands , those can have markers  , but a quest is NOT a quest if you know Beforehand where to go and what to do ..

and some Points that I feel makes the game bad but I understand is the same after the starter island

1 NO Collision detection, It makes the combat borderlining to stupid most of the time , but I guess this is a sacrifice they had to make due to huge PvP zone

2 Ugly characthers but ok enviroment graphics

I understand that these things are there for obvious reasons and will not change, maybe they will change the characthers Graphics eventually :)

This is why you don't base the entire game's gameplay off of the tutorial. Rarely in games are the two identical. The tutorial is nearly always a watered-down, easy-mode version of the game. Simplified so that it is literally impossible to fail (in most games). ESO is not different in this regard, and many people have already commented on disliking the tutorial.

As for the traps, the do more damage the further into the game you go, but so far they aren't too hard to spot if you're paying attention.

The quest markers, function literally identical to how they do in other Elder Scrolls games. If you pick up a quest, it gives you the general area or location of the next stage of the quest on the map. However, this doesn't mean that every quest is clearly pointed out to you in the game.

There are tons of quests that are off the beaten path, you just need to take the initiative to explore.

And again, I repeate take the initiative to go exploring, once you get out of the tutorial zones. Too many people just auto-pilot through the zones, and just assume they've seen everything.

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

 

I have posted this two or three times in other threads, but it allways got drowned and never got anyone to react on it.  I think this is something that would make everyone happy

 

Some people complain about the dozens of people running around in the ancient thomb that just was discovered.  Others complain about how grouping not works in the world of soloquesting. While others just love most of the open world dungeons

 

in the settings tab they should add a default setting for prefered type of quest dungeon..

1) solo...  You enter the dungeon/instance/phase solo, and need to fight trough it all alone

2) grouped...  The dungeon content is harder and aimed at a 4 man group, bring your own friends

3) coop .. The dungeon content is harder and aimed at a group, you are grouped with the next 3 persons entering the dungeon.

4) open world...  Which is as it is now

5) choice...  You get the above 4 options to choose from every time you enter a dungeon..

this should make everyone hapy and the mega server technollogy just seems perfect for things like this.. If they have the resources to do it, it should not be that hard to program as long as the dungeons allow for some scaling..  Just wondering how you guys feel about this?  

Not a bad idea!

Originally posted by rochrist
Originally posted by GuyClinch
Originally posted by FinalFikus
Originally posted by GuyClinch
Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by GuyClinch
Originally posted by lizardbones

*snip*

 

The critical element of sandbox isn't player created content.

Of course it is.  Are you familiar with real life sandboxes?

Its not only critical its defining. It's both necessary and sufficient. That's why I pointed to Little Big Planet as a sandbox. The game play is 2d and linear but you can create an entire game with the included engine.

If we ignore this the word just becomes something for people who LIKE some games and don't like others.  Its' not open world:

GTA V is open world - Skyrim is open world -but you know what - SO IS WOW!

 

Its not games with few quests - EQ had few quests - but it is entirely themepark.

It's not procedurally generated content: tetris is all procedurally generated - its not a sandbox. Much of Diablo III is procedurally generated.

It's not a lack of quests. Lots of older MMOs like EQ didn't have quests and they were still a themepark. Various scriped static monster enocunters and such. GW2 is not quest driven by any stretch.

It's not world PvP - again see world of Warcraft.

So if we define sandbox as 'games we like" and not sandbox as 'games we don't like" - then sure they are the future.  Sandbox is already here by that standard. Why all the cool games have it.

By your standard, City of Heroes was a sandbox game. Hell, NEVERWINTER is.  Player created content may be an important part of a sandbox game, but is certainly isn't the definitive.

Here is the closest thing you guys are going to find to a 'definition' of sandbox.

The problem you guys are having, is that sandbox design is a made-up term. It doesn't have a strict definition, just a mutually accepted concept (to varying degrees). The 'purists' view sandboxes as nothing but the most completely unrestricted gameplay in the most extreme sense. However, the problem with this is most 'pure' sandboxes still have linear elements. Look at starbound for example, there is a linear progression of tools, armor, and sectors. It also has heavy zoning. However, I don't think anyone would consider that game a themepark.

Indeed the only unifying factor I can think of when it comes to 'pure' sandbox games, is player generated content as the core gameplay. This is why modding isn't accepted as a sandbox. It is player generated content, but it isn't the core gameplay.

- That said, this thread seems to be oriented with sandbox 'purists' in mind. In this regard I have to disagree. I think pure sandboxes will remain niche. And I think pure themeparks are becoming niche.

What we are actually seeing is a convergence of themepark and sandbox features. What we are seeing is the emergence of the 'themebox'. Games embracing elements of both design types, and trying to combine them to create superior games.

The problem w/ pure sandboxes is they force the game to be entirely about gathering & managing resources. Something most gamers get bored with.

The problem w/ pure themeparks is that pre-generated content can only be created at a limited pace. People are devouring the content faster than it can be produced, and thus makes it not sustainable. Furthermore, because of this rapid consumption of content, players are getting bored / desensitized to more and more types of content, making it nearly impossible to create more engaging content at the same pace.

Gamers still want structure, but they also want the freedom sandbox games provide. I think we're going to be seeing a lot more games that try to do just that.

Originally posted by maccarthur2004

After reading a text from a developer (dont remember well, i think was the Trion's boss) and observing the behavior of people in foruns and ingame, i came to conclusion that what people says they want in a mmo (in foruns) isn't necessarily what they do and seek when really playing (and paying) the game. As a example, the big majority of people in foruns like this says that wants sandboxes features, freedom, absency of hand holding, without instances and so on. However, when they are ingame, they seek these very things. In the heat of the moment, they seek more "convenience" (dumbed down features, making things easier to obtain) and feel lost without hand helding, saying the game has "nothing more to do" and even missing instanced content.

I think because this the big developers dont gamble much money in full sandboxes and, when they do, they try "fix" the things later adding more themepark features and "convenience" (making things easier) to the game, as Archeage shows.

I have no idea what you actually read. But it's 100% true. And not just for MMOs.

Gamers are notoriously one of the most paradoxically conservative consumer bases in the world currently. Most of us will loudly proclaim we want change. We want newer features, less of the same, more interesting & complex gameplay. When a game like that comes out, we scrutinize it. Criticize it for the very things we asked for, using different termonology. For example, like you say, we ask for more freedom. However, if the game doesn't have direction (aka limits our freedom to predefined choices), we complain that there is 'nothing to do' in the game, or that it's 'boring'.

We also ask for things like 'wanting what we do to affect the world', and then when we get that many complain 'well i don't feel special or heroic', because they are now one of thousands doing the same thing.

And on top of this, we often don't truly support smaller projects. It's these smaller projects that ultimately drive change, as they can afford more risks. However, smaller projects typically have less polish, which is something many gamers refuse to compensate for. They want the most simplistic, accessible, refined version of a game possible. Which naturally translates into a game that takes few risks (because it can't, given the amount of money required to fund the game).

It's a sad thing to learn, but it's been like this for over a decade now. It's an unfortunate aspect of human nature that doesn't really show signs of changing any time soon.

 

I really don't understand this OP.

First off, WHY would any dev be worried about catering to you, specifically?

Secondly, the only real lesson to be learned from D3 (dev's-wise) is that RMT is a good way to screw up your game. D3 2.01 is essentially just asking gamers to pay for Blizzard to fix their own game. There is nothing 'good' about that for other studios to adopt.

Everything else you are talking about in regards to build creation, having choices, etc. Other games are already doing better than D3. I'm glad you like the game, but if you really think what they're doing is that amazing, I'd highly recommend checking out the numerous other ARPGs that are way better. D2, Titanquest, Path of Exile, to name a few.

Originally posted by Ender4

 


Originally posted by asmkm22

Originally posted by Ender4 Have they commented on an open world PvP server yet? That is just about the only way I'll play. PvE without the threat of PvP is just boring and PvP in a special zone gets old really fast.
They've been pretty clear in that each platform will have one server (probably different ones for different regions though).  So there won't be any dedicated "types" like you're used to with other MMO's.  There's a huge zone (rather large part of the world map) that's always PvP, although it does have some PvE stuff to do as long as you watch your back.

 

If you want open world PVP that's mandatory for everyone, you'd be better off with something like Darkfall, although those games are generally poorly populated for good reason.



Yeah Darkfall is a terrible game. I'm fine with a game that just makes a couple servers PvP like EQ, WOW etc. I know EQN looks like they are planning on doing it so maybe that is my next game. I want quality PvE only with the ability to sprinkle in PvP organically. Shame that so few games offer that when it takes so little work.

The reason a lot of devs don't do this is not because of difficulty. It's because it's expensive to dedicate full resources towards something that most people generally do not want. People like PvP, but they also like having the option of doing something else when they don't feel like it (within the same game preferably). In most Open PvP games, this tends to translate into situations of 'if u dont wanna pvp, either uninstall or play something else', because people abuse it to the point of camping low lvls and preventing them from enjoying the game.

This problem also gets worse, the longer the game is out, as the power difference between new and veteran players gets larger both in gear, but also in experience / skill lvl. Thus making it counter-productive towards welcoming new players into your game (which is what most games want, because it's a necessity if you want your game to survive as an MMO).

Originally posted by Ender4

Have they commented on an open world PvP server yet? That is just about the only way I'll play. PvE without the threat of PvP is just boring and PvP in a special zone gets old really fast.

Well then I guess we won't be seeing you in ESO ;p.

That said it seems like a fairly asinine reason to skip out on what's looking to be an awesome PvP game. There is PvE in the PvP zones, and the map is absolutely massive. There's lots of ganking as well as the large zerg warfare. It's large enough to acccomodate both large battles, as well as smaller skirmishes and even smaller ganks / duels. It all depends on which areas of the map you wish to travel around. If you deliberately go towards the hotspots, you'll find a lot more people. If you sneak around / go to the quest areas / skyshard points in enemy lands, you'll find pleanty of smaller fights and gank opportunities.

Originally posted by fs23otm
Originally posted by Ender4

For me the most cut and dry way to look at it is if you log off in one spot of a game and then log on to that same spot on another server, will you just see the same things? In ESO the answer is yes. In a sandbox game the answer is generally no.

While this is true on most games, it is not a definitive approach. In GW2, you could log out in one spot on a server, and log in on another and the place you logged in could be different. 

My point all along, is YOU the player make it a sandbox. How you play individually make it a sandbox. In WoW, people call it themepark because you go from quest hub to quest hub to level up..... Could you forgo quests and just kill mobs and level? Yup you could, no one is making you quest. Could you level by PVP, yup you could.... no one is making you PVE. 

The bottom line is PEOPLE make games sandbox. Developers can either give you tools or not give you tools, but you can still do SANDBOX-LIKE things in games. No game is really sandbox.

That is, until you develop you own game to play how you want to play. 

I'm sorry sir, but you are very much mistaken.

The problem is you are trying to argue middle-ground games using extremist terms. Sandbox & Themepark are 2 extremes of the same problem. The reason they are named the way they are is this:

Themepark, is designed (like a themepark) with a series of content (rides) for you to pick from. You can't ever change what those rides are, but you can pick ones you partake in.

Sandbox is literally nothing. It's a box of sand. If you want any content you have to build it yourself. This is why a game like Minecraft is a sandbox, and WoW is not. WoW gives you a series of provided content to choose from. Minecraft says 'here, build it yourself'.

Games like GW2 and ESO exist in between both extremes. Some might call them 'Themeboxes'. They offer more freedom & choice than your standard themepark, but you are still limited in the sense that you can't really create your own content.

 

** Another way of looking at this is that Sandbox games are focused around a core gameplay of gathering & building (it's based on resource management). Themeparks are games more around going out and 'finding things to do'.

Originally posted by Lazzaro

The more video's and reviews I've seen has peeked my interest. I was pretty cold on the game but the more I've seen the more I like it. I love the freedom they give you with almost everything.

I know it's a suppose to be a Themepark MMO, but the more I see and read it really doesn't feel like it's on rails like your traditional themeparks? Am I wrong in this or is this what it turns out to be at level 50.

It seems like Zenimax kept the openess of the Elder scrolls with this game.

Thanks!

As other posters have said, ignore the extremes. This game exists in the grey area between themepark and sandbox.

Best comparison I can say would be to view it similar to elder scrolls games or GW2. All are themeparks, but they focus on freedom & exploration over linear progression. And I think that's the key difference. The standard themepark focuses on linear progression. The focus is always on 'get better stuff'.

In ESO, there is a little of that, but the focus seems more to be on customization, acquiring new skills (tools) to diversify you're builds. Getting the right enchants / enhancements for your gear to compliment what you're doing. Maybe you're a heavy-armored mage, and thus have naturally poor mana regen? Fix it by adding mana leech enchantments to your stuff, to gain mana from attacking. That's just one of many examples.

Not unlike GW2, lvling to max (50) doesn't take very long. I think the first 50 will be out in ~3days from early-access. However, similar to games like GW2 (and elderscrolls) the game doesn't just 'stop' because you hit max lvl. It opens up, there's pleanty of choices to make. PvP, dungeons, world bosses, adventure zones, etc. Whereas with most themeparks you hit endgame and it's either raid, or do battlegrounds. And that's pretty much it.

So, yes, the game is still very much a themepark. But it's a themepark that is based around giving players options, rather than guiding them down a narrow path of content.

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