Trending Games | Cabal 2 | Wizard101 | Guild Wars 2 | Hex

  Network:  RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,975,347 Users Online:0
Games:818  Posts:6,418,368
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online AD2460 ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord 2 Archlord X Armored Warfare Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Bionic Marine Command Online Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blackguards 2 Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodborne Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chroma Squad Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crowfall Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Heart Online Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dying Light Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthlock: Festival of Magic Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Fable Legends Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GRAV GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods Rush Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Hand of Fate Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Immune Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online Kill Strain King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lords of the Fallen 2 Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Hunter 4: Ultimate Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Necropolis Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Nova Genesis Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Chronicles Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Coast Legends Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Banner Saga 2 The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Trapped Dead: Lockdown Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utherous Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles 3D Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

All Posts by aesperus

All Posts by aesperus

256 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last
5104 posts found
Originally posted by Rydeson
I would love to hear about your complex non-role playing combat, and which games those are..  Most people that complain about role combat often use broken bad examples to justify their position.. The reason your car keeps pulling to the right isn't because of snow tires, it's because you have one tire that is flat.. Fix the flat and the car drives just fine, don't argue that snow tires are bad..  :)
There are many games that have combat that doesn't rely on the trinity. And (while I'm sure this may have just been a typo on your end), there is no such thing as 'role playing combat' outside of LARPing. Class-oriented is a thing, and probably what you meant. It's what most games use. As for games that don't rely on the trinity system there are a number, I'll list a few of the MMOs, but because many of them aren't perfect examples, I know people tend to argue about them or discount them entire. However, some of the main ones we have are Eve, Planetside 2, GW2. That said, as a much more tangible example, I'll use a non-MMO game. Final Fantasy. While many of them have the option to turn your party into the standard trinity, ALL of them have enough customization as to that being unnecessary. Furthermore most bosses and encounters are much faster if you don't have your party setup as a typical trinity. I could go on, but this wall of text is getting bloated enough as is.

Originally posted by aesperus

I think you're confusing threat (as in aggro) with threat (as in intelligent battle-strategy).  ??? Merely pointing out that just because the words (threat) are the same, the meanings are not automatically interchangeable. There are different ways in which the word 'threat' is used, and you used one (as applied to video game AI) in relationship to another (as applied to assessing real-world danger). They are not even remotely close to the same thing. The AI threat does the exact opposite of what you do in your real-world examples. The AI is specifically designed so that the character that is the least dangerous (the tank) holds the greatest threat.

Aircraft Carriers get focused because they are the reinforcements. Not because they have the most armor, largest health pool, or best insults. Beep Beep back up the bus.. Who said anything about comparing a AC to a warrior?  I used the AC as one of many examples that a target gets and maintains attention for a number of reasons.. Did you miss the defensive end example that was in the same sentence?  Noticed how I said ALL-PRO defensive end.. Of course he gets special attention because he deserves it.. If it was just your average player, then he wouldn't get double teamed like the all pro.. YOU sir jump to conclusions not said.. 

No one explicitly stated this. But by using real world threat as a comparison to gaming threat, you've implied similarities. This is merely an extension of the above point that the meanings are NOT interchangeable. There are no conclusions here, just examples of why the same word doesn't apply equally to both situations. Because in each case it's being used in a very different way, with a very different meaning. One is a term adopted by a primitive AI system, the other is a term used to assess danger.

You are arguing about a broken formula.. MOBS target whatever the "code" tells them to target.. Everything in a computer game is either "random" or "code"..  (period)...What you are complaining about is a poorly written code, and trying to use it as the poster child why "code" needs to be abolished.. If a mob is ignoring the 200,000 points of damage because some dumbass dev formulated a code that gives the tank 500,000 points of taunt.. The problem is the BAD formula, not the use of a code..  Vanilla EQ was a good start to aggro management.. DPS had to wait for meat shield to get agro before casting.. and casters better learn how much damage they could cast, because often if they chain cast the mobs would peel away from tank and go directly after caster or healer.. Many times as a druid it was my duty to snare the mob so he wouldn't runaway when dying (notice how mobs don't do that anymore).. If the mob resisted my snare, it was my best interest to not recast it again so soon, unless I wanted agro..  If I sat down to meditate, I would pull agro if I was too close to the mob.. If a player was close to death the mob would target that player and ignore any taunts. EQ started off with a good threat(agro) meter formula..

Here is where you start to make assumptions about my meaning. I've never said anywhere about abolishing code, that would be foolish. I know how coding works, and have done a fair amount of programming myself. But I also know enough to know the difference between simplistic / primitive AI, and more advanaced AI. I know that just because a system is popular, doesn't mean it's the only way to solve the same problem, or even the best way. It just means it's the most commonly understood.


You bring up EQ as a good start to aggro management. And you'd be right. The problem is that for most MMOs, the aggro system hasn't EVOLVED since then. They're still basically using a 10+ yr old formula, because it's comfortable. And many of us gamers, have been using the same formula for so long that we ourselves have become convinced that it's the only way of doing things.

- GW2 by contrast, does have threat, but it's not your typically aggro chart (or table if you wish). It's more dynamic, and more similar to a pie chart. Threat is determined by a number of factors; who has the least health, who has the highest toughness, who is closest to the boss, who is doing the most damage, whether or not someone is reviving, etc. Each factor is weighted, and the player with the highest weight of factors is usually the one being targetted by the boss. There are certain bosses with mechanics that supercede this general mechanic, but they are rare. Lupicus being one of the more obvious examples.

It may not be a perfect formula, but it's a lot more complex than the typical linear aggro system w/ taunts.  Agreed all threat / agro formulas should have multiple variables so why are you addressing and confronting what I said.. You obviously misread something somewhere..  BTW. The carrier example, no one targets the carrier anymore if all the planes are shot down, or if the carrier is crippled.. Hell, Battleships are a thing of the past and often drew attention in battle as well in their day.. My position has always been "actions" dictate agro/threat, the tricky part is correctly writing the formula that doesn't break it.. (like WoW did)

I prefer having the choice of playing an Aircraft Carrier, Battleship, Destroyer, Cruisers, Frigates, Corvettes and Submarines as an example.. I think it's crazy to play a Naval vessel that does it all..  I like roles :)

Answered mostly up above.

I'm not sure we disagree on all points, I just think that many of your examples / comparisons are very much flawed. Real combat works very much differently than standard MMO combat. It is chaotic, it requires quick decision making, it's not structured unless you choose to make it so. Games can very much do that same style of combat, we just refuse to let them do so, because it requires more effort on our parts (we have to be more responsible for our choices in game).

I agree with more choice, I like being able to play many different things within a game. I like versatility. What I don't like is how most of these games have roles basically limited to 1 or 2 simple rotations and we applaud it. Right now we have so much flexibility in our single player and smaller-group multiplayer games. And yet for some reason we refuse to believe that any of that could ever be applied to an MMO. Even though that is exactly how this genre was founded.

Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Flyte27

Actually it wasn't that simple as people have pointed out many times.

It was actually. EQ is exactly the same as vanilla WOW when it comes to threat management.

The mobs were just as dumb back then than nowadays, and always attacked the target with the highest threat, gods, dragons and demons as stupid as a rock.

And then, the technology progressed, not only client side,  the scripting and what can be done server side nowadays is exponentially more than what you could do on any vanilla EQ server. If they had tried to put most of the modern WoW raid encounters in EQ back then, players wouldn't have died from the mobs, they would have died from lag. That's pretty much why early EQ relied on those more simplistic mechanics.

So at the end, the raid fights are actually less zergish and more varied and deep nowadays than they have ever been in the early (or even later) EQ times.

I have to backup Jean-Luc here. He's right.

The thing about original EQ is while it had the same formula as most modern MMOs, it was one of the first games of its kind. People playing it didn't come with all this pre-knowledge of 'how an MMO should be' and so every experience felt fresh and unknown. Many boss encounters seemed more complex because people honestly had no idea how they worked. It was all trial and error and experimentation.

Which is true of most games when you approach them with a fresh mind. Everything seems a lot harder until you get more familiar w/ them, then it's all too easy.

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

GW2, would have been an even better game with a trinnity for PvE...

However GW2´s system works perfect for PvP...

They are currently adding taunting... and other stat to build agro... If they make the lacking healing stat more efficient in PvE only and add some healing stuff that works as grouphealing with a high healing stat, they can turn the current game into a semi Trinnity...   adding a system like Wildstar to CC bosses might also add more tacticall means to dungeon bossbattles..

However thats my opinion, some people just love GW2s curent system, i can live with it, no game is perfect and there are so many other things that GW2 is still on top of my list

Actually the opposite. Adding the trinity to GW2 would ruin the combat & class dynamics they spent so much effort creating. It would also remove the need to think about what you're doing. Many people point to the current zerker meta and 'how easy it is' but bring in someone who's new to the game and have them run dungeons in full zerk, and count the deaths. It seems easy to most people now because the game's been out for years now.

The problem w/ GW2's PvE isn't the classes. It's the clunky boss mechanics. Most of the original bosses can be glitched into corners, which makes any kind of trinity irrelevant. It's the reason why you can just on so many bosses and DPS them down. They have easily exploitable mechanics.

By contrast look at some of the newer encounters. Fights like TT, Teq, and VW have a need for a variety of different classes. All of those encounters have parts that need reflect teams, condition teams, in addition to your standard zerk teams. There's also a need for group buffs, and dedicated ressers in some cases. We'll see what happens after HoT, but this is the direction the game seems to be heading in.

Yes they are adding taunt, but it's not the same as what I think a lot of people are assuming. It's much more like a MOBA taunt mechanic. It's extremely temporary, and more of a form of CC than an aggro mechanic. The game already has aggro mechanics, they just aren't as simple as your typical linear threat table. The problem is most players never bother to learn how aggro actually works in this game.

Originally posted by Ender4

All you have done is proven that you do not have a PvP mentality. I don't care if the fight I get into is fair, what I want is to not instantly know what is going to happen. When a group of 5 dudes walks over the hill I want to have to stop, assess the situation, decide if they are friend or foe and react to the situation. Fair doesn't come into the equation, it never does in any serious form of conflict in the real world or in a virtual world. A game that is PvE heavy that has no threat at all of human conflict is just downright boring, it is what killed GW2 and what is likely to kill many future games for me.

The guy who thinks all PvP is high lvl people farming low lvl people and running has never really played a PvP game because that opinion is so ridiculous it is just funny. That is not how real PvP games work at all. That is how the victims who can't get past early levels see games, not the reality.

Can we please stop using this 'PvP mentallity' notion. We aren't insects, we do not have a hive mind. Everyone PvPs for slightly different reasons. Some for competition. Some because PvE is boring. Some because they like ganking. Some like ruining others playing experience (or trolling). There is no universal 'mentallity' revolving PvP. You have players who like it, and players who don't. We don't have a dogma and a membership pen for playing PvP games. We just like them.

For a guy who seems to speak for the rest of us PvPers, I sure find it ironic that you quit a game with isolated PvP because of its PvE.

 

Originally posted by PottedPlant22
I'm not talking about the PVE crowd and those for PVP that would like persistence.  But what about all the battleground players and RVR fanatics?  If visceral combat in skill based targeting is what PVPers keep asking for, they already can have it in Smite.

A number of reasons. Not the least of which being that people like different types of games, and many are fairly close-minded in what they play. That said:

1) Smite is a MOBA, and that term alone is enough to scare of a lot of people with thin skin. MOBAs can be stressful, and there is a learning curve not everyone is comfortable with transcending.

2) Many people played Smite back in early beta / alpha. They don't know (or don't care) that the game has improved drastically since then. I've actually heard some pretty ridiculous reasons why some people refuse to give this game a chance.

3) League of Legends. I hate to bring it up, but LoL has a bit of the WoW-syndrome when it comes to MOBAs. I've actually gotten a lot of former league players to try out Smite. Out of them, nearly all of them loved the game. They had a ton of fun, and have even stated they think it's a superior game to League. Care to guess what they all are playing now? Yep, not a single one is playing Smite currently, they're all back on League.

Why is this? Because one, many of their friends are still playing league. And these games are always more fun with friends. And two, they have so much invested in league, all those runes, masteries, exclusive skins, they don't want to just abandon them. It's pretty standard business strategy, and it works way more than it should. They're hooked.

That said, I have been able to get some others to try the game out. Some from MMOs, some from other online PvP games. Many of them still play. The game is probably one of the most underrated online PvP games on the market currently, but it is growing.

Originally posted by Rydeson
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

The worse is not the trinity. The worse is the threat mechanics, which are completely artificial. Afraid to tell, that threat mechanics are ALL around us, even in life..  There is a reason why Aircraft Carriers are primary focus.. There is a reason why the ALL-PRO defensive end gets double teamed..  There is a reason why cops subdue the guy first instead of his girlfriend (unless she's packing a gun), but then her threat number would change and she would be primary focus..  OUR Attention, as it should be in a game is all about "threat and grabbing attention".. Now I will agree that many devs FAILED to correctly design a better threat formula, but that is a different topic..

I still enjoy games with threat tables, but I've also played many games which were/are very good and didn't have one (UO, AC1, GW2) and it's refreshing to have some more realistic behavior of mobs than just bash the guy with the heaviest armor and the biggest health pool. GW2 doesn't have a threat table?  Then tell me how I always end up pulling agro 90% of the time when I'm nuking the shit out of the mob?  OH.. my dps is a bigger threat to him then the guy next to me that is 4 levels lower and not shelling out the damage.. EQ had the best threat formula I have played.. It wasn't perfect, but it was a far cry better and more realistic then anything since..  It's a shame devs couldn't tweak it more..

I think you're confusing threat (as in aggro) with threat (as in intelligent battle-strategy). Aircraft Carriers get focused because they are the reinforcements. Not because they have the most armor, largest health pool, or best insults. Tanks get focused because they are not only hard to kill, but also dish out way more damage than your average infantry. Snipers get focused because they are a hugely damaging threat. I could go on, but this all has to do with intelligence in accordance with each group's best interests. Or, as it relates to games AI. Threat as portrayed in video games is typically THE most simplistic AI they can possibly have in the game. Monsters do not act in their best interest in the vast majority of these games. They will repeatedly target classes which are the least threatening, but have the most 'aggro', while ignore everyone who's actually killing them.

- GW2 by contrast, does have threat, but it's not your typically aggro chart (or table if you wish). It's more dynamic, and more similar to a pie chart. Threat is determined by a number of factors; who has the least health, who has the highest toughness, who is closest to the boss, who is doing the most damage, whether or not someone is reviving, etc. Each factor is weighted, and the player with the highest weight of factors is usually the one being targetted by the boss. There are certain bosses with mechanics that supercede this general mechanic, but they are rare. Lupicus being one of the more obvious examples.

It may not be a perfect formula, but it's a lot more complex than the typical linear aggro system w/ taunts.

Not really. While trinity MMOs are fun in the sense that I can hop in and pay about as much attention to the combat as I do ordering a cup of coffee, it does get stale fairly fast.

I know I'm not in the majority on this, but I do enjoy challenges in my games. I like games that make me think. I like being able to use more than the most basic of strategies in a fight. I like how in the few non-trinity games I've played, combat may seem chaotic at first, until you actually learn what's happening and how to manipulate the situation to your advantage, and then it becomes crystal clear. Almost like a rubix cube.

I still play some trinity games, as we still seemed to be hooked on the idea that they are necessary. And I still enjoy them to an extent. But I hope we will get more games that try and implement more complex / interesting / thought provoking mechanics, instead of the usual simplistic stuff.

There's a few aspects of RvR that are unfortunately just the nature of the beast.

Tech is always going to be an issue. While GW2's maps def run smoother than ESO, they still had a lot of hurtles to overcome, and the maps aren't as large as Cyrodiil either. DAoC also had some issues for a while as well, though it's tough to beat that game's RvR.

Zerging is another issue that will always be there. Whenever you have multiple players fighting over anything there will be zerging. It's one of the most common and oldest tactics people have used throughout history. The term 'safety in numbers' comes to mind, and we've been employing similar ideas since the days of cavemen. That said, games can (and should) implement as many features to offer options to players so they aren't 'forced' to zerg. I have yet to play a game in which it's impossible to rvr as smaller groups, but it is more plausible in some games vs. others. All in how you approach your tactics.

The last, and largest issue is realm pride. This is something I'm not sure how it will ever get fixed. DAoC got it right in their timing, mixed with quite a bit of luck. But since then, people just don't care as much anymore. We enjoy Realm pvp a lot, but we also get sick of it a lot faster too. Burnout etc. Such games are so population dependent that they suffer much more than the standard themepark when people move on or take breaks for too long.

Definitely looking forward to what CU can do, but these are all pretty significant hurtles to overcome.

This shouldn't really be big news to anyone. Pretty standard stuff.

The writing on the wall doesn't look good for EQN (in general), but I doubt it will be flat out cancelled. The real question is how close (if at all) it will be to it's original vision.

Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by scorpex-x

A developer will say anything before they make the annoucement, I've played many titles and I've seen the developers say they have no plans to go f2p and do it within months.

FFXIV could be playing a Rift where they see whether they can make any real traction with an expansion and make a decision after that or they could simply take the losses because of the FF brand name (to appear to be more successful than it actually is).  FFXIV hasn't gone past the period where most otehr titles move to f2p yet, so it's just a wait and see matter.  One thing to keep in mind though is that FFXIV has done no different than any other mmo that went f2p, keeping or losing the sub has nothing to do with being more or less successful than any other title.

Oh and as a last point, people need to stop using FFXI as any kind of proof of anything.  FFXI cannot go f2p, this isn't even an option because of ps2 limitations.  It will be impossible to add a secure cash shop etc.  FFXIV was designed from the start with the idea of buying a box, making you pay a subscription and having a cash shop.

What do you mean the game hasn't done anything different? How many other games have population locks on half their North American servers, with the rest still maintaining very healthy populations and to the extent where many server still have daily log in queues due to being full?

What they have done different is retained their player base batter than any other MMORPG since WoW. And if given percentages, I'd bet it's doing better than WoW on that ratio.

While what you say may be true, it isn't 'different'. A few games have similar trends, they launched w/ a bunch of servers, most of them full with queues, then people left, and the remaining ones tended to crowd the highest pop servers that were left. I've seen queues with SWTOR, with WoW, with GW2 (with WvW at least, the megaserver tech makes the rest kinda irrelevant), etc. recently. It definitely shows a healthy game, but it isn't a case for originality nor something which separates the game from others.

What scorpex is saying is true. The game is too integrated into the PSN to go F2P. That said, Yoshida doesn't own the IP, he can say all he wants and still have a business man in a suit change their mind sometime down the road. To point to the first sentence scorpex wrote, there is a clear difference between developer intent, and monetary concerns. A dev can have every intention of keeping a game subscription, only to have the rug pulled out from under them in a hurry by other invested parties. The sad thing is, most of the time, it's the dev that gets the flac for it, and not the person actually responsible.

That said, FFXIV is a good game for what it intends to be. It's a new WoW with a fresh (and beautiful) FF skin. There are some minor differences here & there, but the general format is very much the same standard themepark trinity with vertical gear-based progression. There is still very much a market for that sort of game, maybe not as large as it used to be, but large enough. This game will be around for a while more I'm sure.

GW 2 pros
General Discussion « Guild Wars 2
3/13/15 11:57:09 AM
Nice catch guys, lol. I really don't get why people feel the need to act like the OP.

None of what the OP suggests addresses the core issue of PUGs. And that basically with gauging player skill.

MMOs still do not generally have an affective method of gauging individual skill-level from someone whom you don't know. As a result people tend to resort to arbitrary methods (gear score, achievement points, etc.) to hope for the best. There are really only two ways to address the PUG experience:

1) Make the content easy enough that any idiot could do it (not a fan of this method).

2) Add some sort of PvE MMR system to MMOs (which can be problematic, as this tends to fracture the playerbase).

Furthermore, there needs to be more systems like the honor system, where people can reward others for not behaving like asshats. Even still, no system is perfect.

Originally posted by Ecoces
You see this all the time in ARPGs like Diablo and Path of exile and even back in the day City of Heroes/Villains had it. where as you can go into a dungeon solo or with a full group and the dungeon would scale to the amount of people you have.

Because the idea of scaling online games is a relatively new-ish concept (within the last few years). It's been done before, yes, but 10 years ago the focus was on levels, leveling, and 'endgame'. Now that more gamers are starting to see the flaws with vertical progression, scaleable content makes more sense. And as such we are seeing more and more games with some form of that.

That said, scaling can also be more problematic than you might think. For example, when mechanics are involved. Look at GW2, stat-wise the scaling works more or less fine. There is some issue with the loot difference from ascended -> green loot stat differentials. However, the biggest difference is that higher lvls simply have way more tools to deal with any given situation than a normal lower-lvl. They have access to all their abilities, in addition to trades that augment themselves in pretty significant ways. There are some fights that you just cannot do without access to a couple forms of damage immunity (blocks) for example.

The best option when it comes to scaling is to just do away with levels entirely, but we won't allow for that. Because the feeling of progression you get from even the most arbitrary lvling mechanics is just too damned addicting.

Originally posted by Wizardry

I am not sure on the legal dealings behind secrecy and employees leaving but it sounds to me like "Consultant" is a safe way to say,i didn't leave for another job,i am just doing some free consulting on the side.

That is how that huge lawsuit came about,i believe was between TERA was it?Members leave then all a sudden join a team that has a game and ideas that look similar to their old project.

The leave makes no sense at all,GW2 supposedly doing very well,so he has either abandoned his team and the game for more money/security or there was an inside problem,perhaps a riff between system designers.To just up and leave a game that is supposed in the high ranks and doing well,as i said makes little sense.

It is basically like saying,i love you honey but  i want a divorce.

Not really. In this industry being transient is VERY common. Most people tend to hop around to different projects. And people get tired of working on the same project for too many years (GW2's been worked on around 8 years now? give or take a few months), so it's not unreasonable for people to move on to other things. The same thing happened to WoW, to EQ, to a bunch of games.

That said, the guy's a production lead. While it's very important to have good people in your production staff, his job is basically making sure stuff runs on schedule. So unless that's something Anet really has trouble doing, which it doesn't seem like they do, I doubt you'll see much different going forward with the game.

Originally posted by delete5230
**snip for length**

Anyway here is my point :

Each MMO gave me an open world that I could write a story, MY OWN STORY !....Every time I logged on.  Try that on todays crap. Your now told what you like !

Can you say you can Write a book about your adventures ?

Honestly, yes.

Here's the illusion, many players often think they don't have a choice in how they play. Either from being pressured by others to play a certain way (meta, for example), or going with what's popular. However, that is a personal choice each person is tricked into thinking they 'have to' make. You don't, and I don't.

While some games certainly have less freedom than others, all games are a choice. Heck I've done countless off-the-beaten-path activities in GW2. I've stumbled on things others have missed as they zipped on by trying to skip all the content in the most efficient way possible. TSW was a lot more linear, but I still had enjoyable adventures to go on, and it was enough content that you could make a book out of it. Heck, most quest-driven games have a multitude of novels worth of content for you to play through. The thing is, most people skip the vast majority of it. Like renting a movie and then asking to skip to the credits.

Things have changed, but the difference is this. Back in those days (pre-WoW / when it was first released) the choices of MMOs were slim. Fewer than there are now (even though people are complaining about a lack of them currently). We would find our home in a game, and be fascinated by the possibilities. That frontierism is long gone. Many of us are acutely aware of the limitations these games have. Yet we still want more, and we still miss that feel we had back when these games still felt new. MMOs are evolving, not always the way (or speed) that we want, but they are.

It's no secret ARR is basically a wow clone w/ an FF skin. While I personally preferenced FFXI (can't say I enjoyed FFXIV 1.x, tbh, too many horrible design choices), I'm also conscious of the fact that a game like that just wouldn't work in today's climate. Expedience, and simplicity, are what most (key: MOST, not all) players seem to want. The amount of people who enjoy actually difficult content is fairly low by comparison (~10% or less).

There are definitely a lot of things I wish they did differently in ARR, but they aren't ever going to make a second FFXIV. You can be sure of that, especially given the public shame they displayed in regards to that game.

An interesting idea.

Probably the closest thing to that that might be possible (it would still have a lot of issues needed to be worked out) is to do a base scan and then reference it to the character creator to try and find an approximate match. Still, it would make more sense to just release a character creator prior to launch, and let players save character files to be uploaded when they make their accounts (if desired), so people can jump right into the game and not feel like they are torn between making the character they want, and 'beating the rush' of new players.

- 3d Scanning tech has come a LONG way since its inception. However, what often goes unspoken is the amount of work done off-camera behind the scenes to clean up the mesh & make sure the model animates properly. It's not nearly as plug-n-play as many places will have you believe. As a result you can have issues with the animation rig (as previous posters have stated) not applying correctly to the model. In addition to that, however, you can also have problems w/ armor & weapons not fitting right (massive clipping problems, floating pieces, etc.), and there's also the problem of 'too much' information. There's a reason why most character creators that allow you to build old people don't model in most (if any) of the wrinkles. It's more efficient to just have a sprite / texture / bump than it is to actually model all those nooks & crannies.

Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
Zelda or Darksiders type game where progression is gaining abilities and new gadgets vs. leveling games.  Players skill is much greater in game play.  Difficulty is based on creatures abilities and ability to counter through skills, powers and items.  

Yes, I'm playing one currently.

Apparently there's also a Dragon's Dogma online in the works, if it's anywhere near as good as the single player I'll probably be playing that too.

Originally posted by NomadMorlock

This is the point where ESO leaves GW2 in the dust.

I'm not even going to go into how the game is challenging (try pulling more than 4 mobs solo) and I die at least once a night.  I could play GW2 and not die in a week.  There is something that's fundamentally rewarding about learning to play well in a challenging game.

P.S.  This thread sounds like a paid advertisement for Arena Net with all the 75% off GW2 spam. Why do you think they are offering their game for almost nothing a few days before ESO goes buy 2 play?  In my opinion it's because they know they stand to lose going toe to toe with ESO with the same payment model.  

The problem is, while on paper ESO offers significantly more customization (at least when it comes to skills), in reality little of that actually matters.

There's a reason nearly everyone runs around w/ staves in PvP (though they have been working on fixing such issues). As for PvE, you can solo almost any of the world bosses by spamming certain abilities (not in combination mind you, but each one individually). Some of the dungeons are a little better, but not by much. They've been working on addressing these issues, but they aren't finished. The game has a lot of potential, and if they can actually balance out the combat and make for more interplay between abilities, the game could definitely stand out above the rest.

But it's not there yet.

Originally posted by Foomerang

The more i read people's laundry list of required features, the less I'm inclined to believe it's what they actually want.

There are a lot of closed minded ideals floating around here. Long lists of why every game out right now doesn't work for them. People want open ended gameplay. Freedom. Lateral progression. Virtual worlds. Most mmos have multiple ways to play them, but they are never good enough for whatever reason. Entire games are dismissed over a temporary state.

I don't know. It seems like an impossible task. I play a lot of games. I try to have an open mind and I tend to enjoy my time spent gaming.

How do you expect to even spot an open ended game let alone enjoy it, when your approach is flatly closed minded?

I feel like this is a climate that is stifling the community here.

This is something developers have known for years.

Part of their job is trying to figure out what people will actually play vs. what people say. Because the simple truth is that while gamers are probably the most vocal about wanting new things, in practice they are also one of the most conservative demographics. Meaning, we will claim we want endless innovation and new things, but will almost always go back to playing the same old crap with a new paint job. It's a generalization, sure, but we're talking about a large body of people here, not an individual.

The only answer I can really give is providing something that people haven't though of seems to be one of the better ways to go about avoiding this. But that is much easier said than done. Every game can't invent a new genre, so there needs to be room for other things and new features.

256 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last