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All Posts by aesperus

All Posts by aesperus

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Originally posted by leahriddle

As a diehard MMORPG gamer, I grow tired of the stereotypical classes in the MMORPG world. Every time they present new characters, it's always Priests, Mages, Warriors, Archers, Cavaliers, Assassins, etc.

So I've been thinking, are there any other new and creative classes you've seen from other MMORPGs? Melee type or Area of Effect type, whatsoever!

What you're actually talking about are different 'archetypes', not stereotypes. Archetypes are essentially baseline characteristics for a given class, that hint as to the 'type' of class one would play when choosing that role. While most mmos do involve the roles you mention (except for cavalier, not sure what you're referring to there, but few games actually have that as a role); most games have at least one class that is fairly unique to that game.

DAOC had a ton of unique classes, as did GW, AO, CoX, etc. Heck, all of those games had classes that haven't been replicated since. The problem is, the more mainstream you get with your games, the less you are going to see these. Most AAA games have a MASSIVE budget that they need to recoup expenses on. It's no big secret that simplified / dumbed down games sell, and that more unique / inventive games generally don't (by comparison). And this is why you see a lot of devs making the games they do. When you introduce too many new mechanics or ideas, unfortunately, most players don't respond to it well. And then they go play something else.

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Condescending yes. Hypocrisy no.

This pretty much sums up the entire thread.

I'm not sure the OP understands the difference between the two. However, the phrase 'first world problems' isn't condescending either. It's dismissive, which is different from both of the aforementioned words the OP keeps throwing around. Both condescension and hypocrisy can be used dismissively, but they aren't inherently the same thing.

Saying something is a 'first world problem' is basically a dismissive means to say that your problem is a luxury. Gaming IS a luxury. And thus some people who try to equate problems with a video game as 'life threatening' are in need of a reality check (as a previous poster mentioned).

That said, the phrase does tend to get overused to dismiss a problem from being relevant, even if it actually is.

Originally posted by WillowFuxxy

We are reaching a point in software technology where an existing game can be updated in graphics and features.

We have games like Eve that can take 20 years to max all skills.

So...are we ready for game characters to be like Heirlooms where one could put a character account in ones real live Will and pass it down to the next generation.


Clearly it would have be designed such that a person starting in year one will not be trolled by player that is 50 years old but still you get the point.

There is nothing to stop a person from doing that now. There never has been.


'The technology to upgrade graphics in pre-existing games' is a bit of a catch-22. While it's technically true, and has been for some time, it brings with it it's own set of problems. With which most gamers never really thing about.

For one, updating the graphics in a game, means changing the art style. No matter how much devs to and stay true to the original art style. Because of this, players will often complain, or move on to other games. And indeed it's usually more beneficial for devs to just work on a new game.

That said. We are actually moving in the exact opposite direction from what you are implying. We're quickly moving towards a generation of gamers who play games with a sort of 'ADD' mindset. Quickly moving from one to the next, and rarely ever sticking with any one game for a prolonged period of time.

Originally posted by Kyleran
You play the wrong games, they aren't all designed like this.

Pretty much this ^. Though I would agree that most games do stealth horribly wrong.

The problem with stealth in most games, is it has no counter. It's essentially a free first hit in combat, which is almost always paired up with either 1) ridiculously high burst damage, 2) incredibly powerful CC (sap for example), or both.

Very few games have a reliable counter to stealth, and nearly all games make stealth akin to full invisibility.

Some rare games have stealth that takes into account your environment (like AoC, for example), in which things like shadows & terrain can strengthen your stealth, while running around in a wide-open field makes it very easy for you to be spotted. There's also other games (like TESO for example) which have numerous ways to increase / decrease detection radius', making it possible to have counter-stealth builds that negate most of the advantages stealth brings to a fight.

These dynamics are often missing from most games. Thus, stealth in itself is not a bad mechanic; but the ways in which most developers attempt to implement it, are.

We need more games with intelligent stealth mechanics, and reliable (if limited) stealth counters, so that stealth isn't a guarunteed iwin button. Furthermore stealth should never be a permanent buff, if you are also allowed to move while it's up.

Oh look, another MMO with launch problems.

When will people learn? Lol. If you aren't prepared for a game to have a rough launch, then don't buy early access packages. Does it suck to pay for early access? Absolutely, but this is not exactly a new thing. There have been pleanty of rocky launches that we conveniently forget every time a new game comes out. Not a single MMO in history has had a smooth launch. They've all been varied degrees of disfunctional (from que times, to server troubles, login / account problems, etc.).

This one does seem particularly bad, yes, and that's why I'm waiting to see how Trion handles these issues. But to basically put a 'day 1' review of a game that just started it's early access seems premature. Give it a few days, see if the issues get smoothed over. See if they end up giving adequate compensation for the problems, or not. And if they still fail to deliver, then cry the sky is falling.

Originally posted by Kinchyle
What difference does it make? If you played it, did you enjoy it? Why are you people so obsessed with reviews? When PC mag did theirs...I ignored it and played what I wanted to. Why can't you and make your own review?

Because, believe it or not, opinions matter.

Most people are incapable of forming their own opinions, and are in-fact unaware that their own opinions are being manipulated. Even badly written, horribly misinformed reviews are enough to deter people from a decent / good game. Furthermore, people like to save money, or at least feel like they are saving. And many gamers have been burned on purchases in the past, and don't want to make the same mistake.

- I agree with some of the previous posters that Destiny is a decent game. And many (reviewers included) have been holding this game up to far too high of expectations.

Sadly enough, you can easily ruin a game for yourself by having exaggerated expectations. Even if a game is really good, if you were expecting something absolutely amazing, you're going to think it sucks or is mediocre.

This is just getting ridiculous.

These DDOS attacks have been going on for a while now, and they've been targetting the main server clusters for ALL online games. These aren't limited to AA, but also GW2, WoW / Blizzard, League of Legends, SMITE, and a number of other games have been repeatedly getting DDOSed lately.

I know some of the hackers responsible were caught, but only after stupidly threatening a Sony executive and then posting about it on the internet. I'm not sure if these will ever stop, but they are having a negative impact on online games.

Originally posted by PAL-18

So what is the next step.

In the past credit selling,gear selling etc was considered as cheating made by worst people in the genre.

Now as "convenience"

but what is the next step

developers starts to sell botting programs,macros etc.. ?

Welcome to how all business on the planet functions.

Basically this is a big 'chicken and egg' problem. Who's more to blame? The developers who are selling to a market of gamers who actually want to buy this stuff? Or the gamers who repeatedly spend money on systems, mechanics, and business models that are harmful to them?

Even without the monetary issue, gamers have developed a culture around deliberately spoiling / ruining games for themselves. Blitzing through content, ignoring what's 'fun' in favor of whats convenient. Falling victim to the close-minded mindsets of 'play x class, or don't play at all', etc. etc.

Is that also the developers fault? I certainly don't think so.

I find I have to keep bringing this up, but most developers actually don't like these systems more than we do. However, they are in the business of making games. And as a business, they need to make money. If you want to change the way games make money, you need to not only introduce viable alternatives, but organize / educate other games to actually be open to trying them out.

Sadly, as a whole, the vast majority of gamers have shown to be extremely resistant to change. We are notorious for screaming about change on the forums, and at conventions; but when a game comes out that actually tries things differently, it always under-sells.

Originally posted by kolpo

It begun with a few free to play MMORPG's, but now seems every big MMORPG to have some way to pay for advantage. To let out of game wealth even influence a single pixel  in an MMORPG completely and utterly corrupts the role-playing world in my view.  

**snip for length**

But I guess I'm alone in this opinion because quite all MMORPG's are moving in the pay for advantage direction. Has any big MMOPRG avoided this "pay for advantage" corruption or is the age of non corrupt MMOPRG's definitely over?

If you're asking if subscriptions are becoming a thing of the past, the answer is 'yes'.

The whole mentality that cash shop = 'pay2win / pay2advantage' is basically a gross overexaggeration, if not a straight-up fallacy in certain cases.

There are numerous games with more than fair business models based around a cash shop. Because this business model is still relatively new, there are obviously going to be many that do it wrong / incorrectly. And we've seen that. However, this 'old world' assumption that subscriptions were the perfect business model is a delusion. Subs had many flaws, and they have not functioned the way they were supposed to for quite some time now. Perhaps, as you elude to, FFXIV:ARR is the last sub game to reliver deliver on a subscription the way they were originally intended to.

However, for that one example, there are many others of sub games that either couldn't sustain themselves, or failed to deliver frequent & meaningful updates, or even to fix bugs and problems within the game using the subscription fee. Subscriptions, for many games, turned into nothing more than excuse to just constantly give developers money every month, for nothing more than the 'privilege' to play a game you've already payed for.

This realization is what gave birth to the whole 'free-to-play' business model and ideology. And in reality, it's actually MUCH more friendly to us gamers. It allows us to try and play games before having to spend money on them (or in some cases, never spending money on them). There is the frustration of certain games that try to do a 'bait and switch' tactic on their players. But it's simple, don't give them any money. It's pretty easy to spot out those developers and to play something else.

However, we've also seen w/ companies like Anet that you can have games with a cash shop, that aren't centered around player advantages. Hell, the only real advantage you can get from the cash shop is to lvl a character / crafting profession faster, which ultimately doesn't matter when it comes to playing the game, being competitive, or being relevant. There's convenience items, but this gets us in to the problem of the original topic.

'Pay-2-advantage' is such a grossly broad term, that you can literally use it to justfiy hating any form of payment. Whether it be a subscription model, f2p, or buy2play. All are forms of 'paying for advantage'. Every single MMO ever made, as long as it involved some form of payment, could be argued as pay-2-advantage. It's a meaningless label that serves as nothing more than an excuse to resist change.

In no particular order:

1) Zergs, when games don't have ANY method for dealing with them (AoE, siege, etc.). I actually don't mind zerg warfare, provided the game actually leaves room for outsmarting the mindless horde and using superior tactics to win the fight. Instead, most games make it (intentionally, or not) so that zerging is almost required, because the game doesn't implement any counter-measures to people doing it.

2) Over-dependance on gear. I am so sick of gear treadmills, and I cannot wait for people to get over it already. It's lazy design manipulating base human addiction to generate interest. I love gear customization, but I absolutely hate it when games put a gate to PvP by making people who grind points physically superior to you with more passive stats. Instead of allowing people to dominate with skill alone.

3) Crap balancing. Either games balancing too much for PvP, or just fault balance philosophies (nerf what's popular, not what's overtuned). This has ruined so many games with potential. I know it's not an easy thing to do, but I still wish more developers were better at balancing their games.

4) Over-Pandering to casuals. Let me just say that, by most standards, I am a casual player myself. However, I think that too often games make bad changes to cater to players who don't want to have to improve. And would rather have the game made easier for them. You see this in MOBAs a lot in particular, as people complain 'x' character is OP, simply because they don't want to take the time to learn how to counter them.

5) Overboard RNG. Crit is probably about as much RNG as I'd like to see in a PvP game. The more games add features that are randomized, the less skill actually becomes the deciding factor.

6) Lag.

This entire genre was built on the idea of making bigger and better world.

However at a certain point that plateaus, and it becomes nearly impossible to make new giant 'leaps' in progress from the last game. And that's where we're at currently.

Most new games have some type of improvement from previous ones, but it's usually very minor / overlooked. And older, genre veterans look at this and remember fondly at the games they used to play.

It's essentially a combination of nostalgia, comfort (prefering that which you are already used to), and extremely inflated expectations that has brought us to this point. With every new game over the years, our expectation for subsequent games has skyrocketed. Now most studios are struggling to keep up, and indeed many are looking at alternative ways to make a game, without creating a massive flop.

There will always be jaded old gamers, but i suspect over time there will be things to enjoy / look forward to. As well as a new generation of jaded gamers who look back fondly on those games we currently hate.

Originally posted by PioneerStew
Originally posted by DAS1337
Originally posted by PioneerStew

Here is my reasoning: - 

  • Twitchy, skill-based combat can be seen in many FPS/ TPS games and some action combat games.  
  • Knowledge-based, level-heavy combat can be seen in many tab-targeting/ turn-based games.  

I put hybrid combat as seen in games such as GW2 and WS in the latter category.  Why? Telegraphs. It is as simple as that.  The game tells you to press a button and you press it.  It is the Pavlov's dog of combat.  

Worse still, I think it is a poor version of both the combat examples I cite above.  

Anyway, please share your thoughts, no doubt we will get into semantics regarding skill and knowledge.  

Every type of combat system in every MMO ever requires skill.  There are always people who are better than others.  There is a lot more to being an effective player in combat than twitch movements.  Accuracy, speed, your ability to think on the move, and make the right decisions while doing it, experience, knowledge of your enemies, calmness under pressure, strategy, knowing HOW to use your skills, situational awareness, as well as things that may not directly affect skill.  Like your computer hardware, type of mouse, keyboard, monitors (3D vision or single display, and surround sound/headsets.  


It always makes me laugh when I read these threads.  It shows how unaware people are.  That's me being nice.  Every game requires skill.  Even PONG requires skill.  It's sad that you can't figure that out. 

Yes, pong requires skill.  

Knowledge is to do with learning theories and skill is the application.  Since the hybrid combat I am talking about tells you when and how to act via telegraphs there is little skill required but some knowledge.  

Another example would be condescension, it requires neither knowledge or skill, any dullard can use it.  

Double check your logic.

By your own line of reasoning, pong would not require skill. Because it too tells you exactly when and how to act. The challenge comes from doing it fast enough (timing).

So how is that any different from telegraphs? They tell you something is coming, and you have to be quick enough / manage your skills properly in order to avoid that 'thing'. Otherwise your miss-timing can lead to a death. That right there is a form of skill, the amount of which is determined by how large (or small) a margin of error is allotted to the player.

Originally posted by PioneerStew

Here is my reasoning: - 

  • Twitchy, skill-based combat can be seen in many FPS/ TPS games and some action combat games.  
  • Knowledge-based, level-heavy combat can be seen in many tab-targeting/ turn-based games.  

I put hybrid combat as seen in games such as GW2 and WS in the latter category.  Why? Telegraphs. It is as simple as that.  The game tells you to press a button and you press it.  It is the Pavlov's dog of combat.  

Worse still, I think it is a poor version of both the combat examples I cite above.  

Anyway, please share your thoughts, no doubt we will get into semantics regarding skill and knowledge.  

FIrst, there is a flaw in your reasoning. Having telegraphs, and having hybrid mechanics are not one in the same. Telegraphs are an added feature to help 'guide' newer players in combat. It's a combat 'aid', in much the same way that larger hitboxes are in FPS games, or boss icons are in raids.

Second, the amount of telegraphs varies greatly in both of the games you mentioned, and it is primarily in PvE where they have the most effect. In GW2 the only telegraphs you are given, while engaging in PvP are from siege. Every other indicator comes from abilties & effects that are already being applied, meaning if by the time you've seen where they are, they've either already hit you, or the person casting them has missed. It is only in PvE where you see the majority of telegraphs for GW2, and that (as I mentioned earlier) is to assist players new to the game. That said there are still many encounters with moves that aren't severely telegraphed, that many players still struggle to see coming, because they have trouble seeing the boss animations in the middle of  everything going on.

In WS, the game has perhaps the most severe amount of telegraphs, but again, many of the abilities are already being fired with the telegraphs. It make look silly seeing a bunch of shapes flashing around the battlefield like a rave party, but to say it doesn't require skill is quite an exaggeration.

You may want to double check the definition of the word 'skill' and make sure you properly understand it's meaning. Most people seem to misunderstand what that word actually means.

There are a few games that have those kinds of features, but it's not a very popular design choice.

When designing a game you need to be careful about how (and how much) you punish the people playing your games. If you over do it, you just end up detering people from playing the game. Which is one of the reasons why positive choices are often a better design decision than a bunch of negative tradeoffs.

Having passive negative effects for your characters sound neat on paper, but it doesn't really make your game any more fun. The one exception to this being mechanics which harm your charactr in some way, in order to deal extra damage (or healing) in exchange. Though such mechanics are rarely offered passively, and usually require some kind of activation to trigger.

Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Neherun

The instant-gratification era is the thing that has ruined RPGs. No one wants any setbacks anymore, players want a smooth, easy experience that flows them through the content with no effort at all. Risk has to be minimized, and nowadays people even consider corpse runs too much of a death penalty (which I personally find utterly ridiculous). Perhaps I'm yet another bitter old school MMORPG player who keeps waiting for that another high from games like SB / UO / AC : DT... Which I will most likely never get.


Says who?

Diablo 3 is very popular (20M boxes sold) and greater rifts has infinite challenges, and there are plenty of setbacks (not completing the next level).

Now risk needs to be minimized because you don't need risks to have challenges. Risks is in the way of exploring how to beat the challenge.

Lol, you may want to refrain from using Diablo 3 as an example.

D3 is an easy experience that requires minimal effort. Heck there've been videos of people fighting bosses in that game afk. Perhaps the hardest encounter that game has had was the login boss on launch.

Having voice coms is usually an indispensable feature for games nowadays. Especially if you want to do anything organized. So that much makes sense, and is something you should probably get used to (even if you don't have a mic or w/e).

However requiring it 100%, whenever you log on, regardless of if you're part of what's going on or not, is ridiculous and absurd. Tbh, I would say the same about most 100% reqs from guilds these days. It's an outdated way of thinking and they will more than likely not be able to get away with that for very long. They're either crumble, or be forced to change, as so many guilds do.

People just don't have the patience / time for such strict reqs these days. Either you've got multiple games / friends you're talking to, or you just need a break. Being social is one thing, forcing people to talk to you is another.

Cool looking game, and I'll definitely be keeping an eye on it.

Not entirely sure why it's being featured on, but w/e.

Originally posted by jusomdude
If ~99% of the population that plays the game can't finish the heroic content... the game isn't easy. I bet most people that call WoW easy haven't finished the heroic content.

By that logic, then nearly every MMO must be extremely difficult.

Most MMO gamers (and I'm not talking about those on these forums) seem to be fairly incapable of making their way through dungeon content. As ridiculous as that sounds. Now part of that is likely a time commitment issue, but still. In every game with endgame dungeons, an overwhelming majority of the population can't (or doesn't) finish the content.

This was true of WoW, of EQ2, of LotRO, of TSW, of WildStar, of Rift, of FFXIV:ARR. And yet these games are all easier than many of the other non-MMO games I've played.

When people were first raiding in WoW, it was difficult. The game was buggy, laggy, and people were still figuring this stuff out. Since then, the game has continued to get easier and easier. It is not a difficult game, and the few people I know still playing it aren't disillusioned of this fact.

Originally posted by goemoe
Originally posted by dreamscaper

To all of the armchair developers here:

They wouldn't overhaul something like this just because they were bored. If they're doing this it's because their polling is showing that they're losing a lot of new players at early levels. At least wait to see the final result before bashing.

No. The point is not loosing new players, those numbers aren't big enough to work for it. Hundreds of thousands of players did enjoy the first levels and skipped the game later because they did not like either WvW or dungeons & fractals or the lack of expansions (LS is not worth mentioning for the latter group). This change is because of the china release as everything seems to work for china only over the last year. ArenaNet does not care a single coin for the western market any more. After all its NCSoft. Ever played and watched the progression of Aion?

Don't play NCSoft games if you're out for western content and development. After Aion and GW2 I have seen enough of them.

And you've gotten you're info from....where exactly?

it also baffles me that even now (nearly 3 years since the game was released) this still needs to be said. GW2 is not, and never was, marketing as an endgame 'raiding' loot treadmill progression game. Nearly every post I've seen complaining about 'a lack of endgame' is referring to this, because they want GW2 to basically be WoW 2.0. Which it is never going to be, and the people enjoying the game don't want it to be either.

The game has always been about freedom. Basically playing the game how you want to. Not being forced to grind for gear to stay relevant. Perhaps the closest thing to that this game has are fractals and ascended gear, which are totally unnecessary for every other part of the game.

- As for the new player experience, this IS important. Believe it or not, GW2 constantly has newer players (english speaking ones) trying out the game. I've helped out quite a few since I returned to the game just a few weeks ago. And the early levels are very important to get right, because most people WILL approach this game like it's WoW, and need a bit of handholding to 'ease in' to the fact that the game plays very differently.

Revamping the story is part of this; And while the downed state change is pretty amusing, it shouldn't be surprising. These forums are but a small fraction of the MMO playerbase. The actual metrics show that a large portion of MMO players (sadly) need these kinds of changes.

I'd love to see an expansion for this game, more skills, a revamp of WvW, etc. But that can't be done without a budget, and that involves keeping newer players around. Since coming back to the game I've noticed quite a few changes to the game that are good. They boss encounters have gotten better, their story writing has gotten better, the traits change is a welcome one, and EotM is a lot more fun than I expect it to be. Heck, even sPvP has improved quite a bit.

The changes we want may not all be happening at once, but they are happening. Little by little. And thankfully, we don't have to pay a subscription while we wait.

Originally posted by MysteryB
This is stupid, Landmark is like a side part of the actual game yet they are working so much on it, just work on EQ Next damnit!

Afaik, Landmark has always been a sort of 'PTS' (Public Test Server) for EQN. They are using it both to test new features they're thinking about adding to EQN, and as a template for places & creations they may want to add into EQN (Player made houses for example).

So of course they are going to be working a ton on EQL. Because all of that work (once it's hopefully refined) will be going over to EQN.

This is how public tests are supposed to work, and how they used to work before everyone used it as a marketing gimmick.

It's still it's own game of a sort, but unless they redact on their initial statement about how the two games are supposed to work, what gets developed for landmark, will also likely be ported over to next.

Test new features, report the bugs, give feedback on what works and what doesn't. That will help both games moving forward. Complaining that they are testing features, or that you don't like something doesn't help anybody. And it certainly won't make either game better.

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