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All Posts by aesperus

All Posts by aesperus

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Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Horusra
You do not understand...they want EQ1 with new graphics, updated combat, better engine, modern style economy, and all the good stuff (to them) from modern know just EQ1 not a totally new game.

Well, if someone were able to capture the heart and soul of Vanilla and TBC WoW, I'd play that. I didn't play EQ1, I tried EQ2, but wasn't really impressed and went back to WoW at the time. However, I imagine, if you add EQ1 to that list, I'm sure I'd enjoy that one as well.

The thing that most people don't seem to understand, is when you update a game like that, it effectively becomes a new game.

Think about it, if you have everything the same, but change / update all the artwork, what happens? You get some people who love the new look, and others that hate it. And thus some people won't play the game, because it's not true to how they remember the older graphics)

If you're also updating the combat, then it's not going to play the same way as the older game. And thus, some people won't play it, because it's not true to how they remembered the old combat.

If you're also updating the engine, then some features may carry over, but others may not. Which means you will have to change certain aspects of the game to fit the new engine. And thus, some people won't play the game, because it's not true to how they remember the original.

If you're also changing the economy, then the market doesn't function the same way that it used to. And thus some people won't play the game, because it's not true to the original.

And when you add it all up, you get a whole lot of somebodies not playing your game, for various reasons. And that's a huge deterrent for most studios trying to stay in business.

Now I know Horusra's post was made in sarcasm, but there's a lot of people (including the OP) who are asking for exactly that. And they don't seem to realize how absurd a request that actually is. Many of these games are still around. There's numerous private servers running WoW-Vanilla. And yet people don't play them. They just expect each new game to copy them. Except do a better job. But not too different a job, because it has to be the same. Oh hell, these stupid developers never know what they're doing, do they...

Originally posted by delete5230

First I'll say, I don't know much about this MMO.  But the little I do, I don't like it at all.  I may be slightly off track on my negatives listed below.  But everything about this game turns me off.

- Fully destructible world, I know players are screaming for a change, but this isn't it !

- F2P turns me right off, leave it to SOE to pull this crap.

- Few abilities on your bar ?.....I hate this in the more recent mmo's.....Maybe it's just me, but I like versatility in both talent builds and like to choose and be in control of how I play......I like having something to look forward to, More abilities, not just some minor enhancements.  

- What's so bad about class roles ? It works and it will always work, it has nothing to do with old style.

- The marketing.  Now I know developers like to give long notice about there product. But I don't think SOE even knows much about what they will eventually give us.

I would like to see a real remake of EQ2. Open world and non instanced, Very cool abilities, something never thought of yet. Vanguard had done this, they were innovative, it's just that it ran like dog poo !.....When I first found out about EQ Next, I figured great !....Until I started reading about it.

No offense, but it sounds like you just don't want change. It's fine to enjoy how things used to be, but do you know what happens to companies who don't change? They die.

- I see similar complaints about most IPs on these forums, tbh. And it always seems to come down to the same thing. People wanting reskins of their old favorites. However, it rarely stops there. They want 'new', but they can never describe exactly what that is. They basically want something exactly like game 'X', but not at the same time. So I ask you.

What from the previous EQ game(s) do you want? Do you want it identical to EQ1? If they did that, and barely any people played the game, would you honestly still play it? What's stopping you from enjoying EQ1 / 2 now? Etc. It seems that every new game announced people get ecstatic for, and the second any sort of actual info gets released they immediately do a 180 and label it 'crap'. I just have to wonder how many people here actually think about what their expectations are, and whether or not they are grounded in reality. But, i digress; to answer your bullet points:

1) Fully destructible worlds (and fully constructible ones) are a feature a lot of people have been asking for, for years. Everyone keeps asking for the ability to influence & change the world, and make 'meaningful' change. Destructible environments are part of that equation. You say this isn't the right type of change. Fine, then what is? Games don't get made on negatives. You need to actually have something concrete to build off of.

2) F2P. This is not an SoE invention. Demonize the company all you want, but be real here. F2P has been a recent trend that nearly every company has been getting onboard with. Why? Because it actually has proven to be more profitable than subscription based games. The few sub games that compete in terms of revenue are outliers when you look at them compared to everything else. Like it or not, F2P will be here for a while. Gamers got tired of paying monthly fees for practically no reason. They were justified in the past, by frequent game updates & content. However, when is the last time a sub game has actually delivered on that promise? They almost always provide infrequent (if any) content updates for the sub, and instead just keep charging you even more fees per expansion. I hate bad F2P models as much as the next guy, but bad subscriptions aren't any better.

3) Few abilities. I won't go into too much depth on this, but I'll just say (for the Nth time) that the amount of abilities on your skill bar has nothing to do with versatility, or how you play a character. Having 18 versions of fireball doesn't make a class more versatile. It makes it more redundant. Guild Wars is a perfect example of this. The first game had only 8 skills you could use, and yet it had way more versatility with builds than GW2 does. Even though GW2 gives you at least twice as many skills (sometimes more, depending on class). There are also numerous other games that can serve as examples of how untrue this idea actually is. If you prefer more skills on your skillbar, that's fine. But it doesn't make the combat any better, it's just what you are used to.

4) Class roles. They work because they simplify combat to the lowest common denominator. It's safe, but that doesn't mean it's the only way to design combat. It's comfortable, it's easy to understand, and that's why people like it. I get it. However, it isn't without it's own problems. For starters, certain classes (and I'm talking about the trinity here), are always underplayed in every game that has them. To this day, healers & tanks are always significantly more difficult to find than dps. The latest examples of this being Wildstar, ESO, and FFXIV. Each very different games, all have the same problem, and none of them are that old (which illustrates that not only is it a problem, but it's a problem that happens exponentially more frequently each year). And no one likes to wait around for hours trying to find a healer or a tank. It just isn't fun.

5) The marketing. This is a colossal 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' type of situation. And it makes me /facepalm to no end. I'm still on the fence about this game, but I know enough about it to realize that SOE has been trying (since the beginning) to involve players in the development of this game. Surprise, that means they don't know 100% what the game will end up as, because they are evolving it with the feedback they keep getting. That's how development works. If you think that any MMO ends up with a finished product that is identical to the original plan, well then you've never worked on a video game before. It never works out that way. This is yet another situation in which people have been asking for devs to listen  to them, they do it, and then get criticized for it.

I think I've typed enough, but I'll end with this. No game is going to please you if you are constantly trying to compare it to something else entirely. There's a long list of great games that will never get a new paint job or graphics update. That's how the world works. If we kept going back and remaking outdated things we used to like, we'd never have time to try new things. So why not try and step out of your comfort zone, and try something new? Even if it's not EQN, look forward, not back. Play games to have fun, not to relive experiences you had 10-20 years ago.

Originally posted by DamonVile

I've seen this game on steam for a long time and read reviews and such that always talk about how fun it is. Has anyone here actually played it ?

My list of random questions!

Does it still have an active player base. Is it worth giving a try still ? the concept looks pretty fun. Multiple real players on one air ship. Do you need to join a guild or can you just start playing and join random people ? Is it noob friendly or am I stepping into some cult game where everyones been there forever and feel everyone should know what they know. What's the general attitude like in game ?

It's a fun game, but it's been a while since I last played it so I'm not sure what the population is like.

It's not too much different from other team-based online shooters, though. The community last I played seemed decent, though small. It definitely doesn't have the same following as CoD, but if you ever played natural selection that might be a big closer to what to expect in terms of community.

The game has been around for some time, so I would expect (at least on some servers) to run into people that expect you to know what you're doing. However, there should be some new-player friendly ones as well. Just speak up and most people should be reasonable.

Originally posted by Gorwe
Originally posted by Po_gg
Originally posted by Dranny
Originally posted by Aethaeryn

I keep heading back to LOTRO all the time.  I think it does F2P the best out of all the games.


Do you not have to pay for each zone in Lotro.?

Have you played Rift F2P model.?

Rift has a great model indeed, sadly the game itself never was among my favourites (except the Dimensions).

LotRO's model, I've wrote already numerous posts about it :) it's not as simple and straightforward as Rift's, but for former players it's almost as good.

For newcomers, Rift's f2p is much better, I agree (but you can unlock whole game for free in LotRO too, if don't mind the wasted time for grinding).

I'll just add that by this account SWTOR doesn't have a half bad f2p either. If you're willing to spend time leveling and gathering money only to buy unlocks, swtor can give you a HUGE game for free. I mean the only things you CAN'T(no way pedro!) influence are:

-> RE chances(a hit to high end crafting): 10% instead of 20%

-> Money limit(notable only during the endgame): 350k max(it can be purchased via escrows, but it'll get pricy as all hell)

-> Chat restriction: you can't chat normally. There's a limit(3 messages?) after which you have to wait 30s to chat again(annoying, but not make or break)

-> Forum restriction: you can't use the forums AT ALL. This could be a make or break(it is for me). But I understand and fully support them for doing this(otherwise they'd have a LoL forum on their hands!)

I mean with a high level char feeding the alts with xp boosts, you won't even feel the xp diff. And a fully unlocked f2p SWTOR feels more like a full game than some P2Ps do.

Just saying(if it applies to LoTR:O, it applies to SWTOR as well)...

I thought they also gated your characters & UI?

Did they undo that decision? Or are you saying you can use in-game gold to unlock them anyway? If that's true I may have to reconsider playing that game again.

Originally posted by xlist21

Hi all,

Basically, I am looking for two games : (1) mmorpgs with decent popularity & endgame and (2) mmorpg that feels like a single player game. 

I will be playing with my gf so duo-friendliness of a game is important. 

For the first category, I found GW2 / Rift / FF ARR. I would like to avoid a game that focuses its end-game contents on structured & difficult raids as in WoW.  Actually, I enjoyed playing WoW with world-class raid team 4-5 years ago but now I don't have enough time to do so and would want to avoid WoW style endgame. 

But I am little worried because all game seems to have their own drawbacks. 

GW2: Are there enough endgame contents?

Rift : Is it WoW-clone and its end-game is large raid focused?

FF ARR : Does it simply focuses on old-style grinding where I do the same stuff repetitively? 

For the second category, I found TSW, ESO and Lotro. Basically, to me, it seems like I can enjoy most of them with my gf as we do in  RPGs with co-op support.  I am leaning toward TSW but would like to hear more opinions. 

You may want to be a bit more specific, because when most people talk about 'endgame content' they mean 'WoW-style endgame raiding & dungeon grinding'. Since you obviously don't want that, to you know what 'type' of endgame you are actually looking for?

That said;

GW2 has a ton of free content, and once you own the box you can go back and enjoy it any time you want. There is plenty to do at endgame, almost too much if you are serious about acquiring the cooler skins in the game (as they require lots of time commitments to obtain the more rare ones). There's quite a number of dungeons to enjoy (you can spend hours each night just going through each of the dungeons to get the daily rewards). There's fractals (randomized endgame dungeons), world bosses, and of course pvp (and RvR style pvp).

** GW2 would be my recommendation for an MMO with plenty to do, and non-WoW style endgame content. The other 2 games you ask about are both modelled after WoW, so if you don't like that, stay away.

- For the second category TSW might be your best bet. The story is really fun, especially if you like dark & creepy settings. if not, I would recommend checking out SWTOR. It also has pretty good story, and you don't have to go through the endgame raids to enjoy the game.

LotRO was a good game, but it's way too dated & it's hard to enjoy it anymore. ESO has too many problems to name, not the least of which is you will have issues questing with your gf becaue of the phasing system. The only issue w/ TSW is the combat, which feels a bit clunky and simplistic.

So, in short:

Category 1: GW2

Category 2: TSW or SWTOR

Hope that helps.

Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by Zeroxin

Some of you guys commenting make me laugh.

They haven't even released all the information from the feature pack and you're acting like you have all the answers.

Agreed! And not a single one of them mentioned that it costs not a thing, not anything, nil, zero,  zip, nada, diddly-squat, and not a cent.

Being free is great. Their business model is honestly one of my favorite parts of the game atm.

That said, if you're trying to excite people into returning to the game, this feature pack is not off to a good start. Maybe they are holding back, but it's not exactly cryptic knowledge that if you want to draw interest, you need some sort of 'hook' to get people interested.

The title was probably the most exciting thing about the feature pack. It definitely perked an eye brow from me, and then every detail afterwards triggered the thought 'this is it?'. From the features seen thus far, the only thing that seems welcome is the commander tag changes (bout time they're being made account bound).

The balance changes (that we know of so far) seem pretty bad. Spirit weapons were broken before and had to get nerfed, now they're buffing them again because... why? As if people needed more reasons to play guardian in this game. Plus they're buffing rangers, which are already pretty ridiculous as is. And they're buffing the skills that already do the most damage. Why?

The WvW changes aren't nearly enough to shake things up and make that exciting again.

The tournament, while a good idea, just doesn't have enough interest currently. If they held it 2 years ago it would've been much more exciting. However now? It's like waiting until all your players have retired to announce you're having a world series.

- I hope you guys are right and they are holding major pieces of info back, because while additions to the game are welcome, these are nothing to really get excited over.

Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by Arthasm
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Asamof
remember when anet promised updates that would compete with a subscription MMO's updates? lol

I can't say this update particularly excites me, but they do have more updates than most subscription mmos. When was the last time WoW had an expansion? How about EVE, what is there update schedule like? ESO has had how many content updates since launch? GW2 has content updates every couple of weeks. None of those sub games is even close to the amount of updates that ANet puts out.

Because they have updates every 2 weeks and last Wow update was 1 year ago, GW2 has 100-500k players, while Wow sits at 7 millions subscribers.

Are you talking of WoWs last update being as an expansion or minor patches and tweaks? I'm guessing that WoWs expansions are comparable to GW2s LS, so, you must be referring to the actual expansion. It has been since September of 2012 that MoP released and that is much longer than a year. You are also comparing subscriber numbers to a game that basically started the mmorpg genre 10 years ago. 

edit: Worthy to note also.

GW2 $59.99 no Sub Fee

MoP $39.99 Box Price, Sub Fee since release $344.77, Total = $384.76

I'm sorry, but GW2 releases content much much faster than WoW. Blizzard rarely releases content that isn't bundled in an expansion. And their minor updates / tweaks do not come every 2 weeks. Their maintenance does, but not game changes.

GW2 still releases content more frequently than any other MMO currently on the market. Whether or not people like what gets released is an entirely different matter..

Kinda was hoping for more / something different.

When I saw the PvP changes title I was pretty intrigued. However, so far it doesn't sound like they actually changed much. The tournament is cool and all, but people wanted more varied game types. Buffing Guardian weapons is okay, but the reason people don't play them is because they nerfed them a long time ago, because they were OP. Hopefully they found a nice middle ground, but I can't help but wonder if they are just going to recreate the same problem that led them towards getting nerfed in the first place.

The Siege golem perks also sound cool, but I don't really see it changing the flow of WvW much. It will provide an interesting obstacle, but that's about it.

All in all the only thing mentioned that sounds great is the commander tag changes. Yes, they're more expensive, but it's about time they're account bound. I just hope you can freely change the color, without having to buy color-specific ones for 300g.

- I really hope that isn't everything they've got for the rest of the year. PvP and class changes need a lot more to keep them fresh & exciting. This just isn't enough.

Post-guild, no.

Community-guild, yes.

Guilds dedicated to any one specific game tend to do less well each year. People are too spread out across multiple games. Very few games have people that stick to them almost exclusively. (Basically you have LoL, CS:GO, WoW, etc.)

Most of the guilds that have endured have accepted this. And have structured themselves in a way to allow their members to play multiple games, without being punished for it. Those that don't, tend to have repeated problems with membership. As people continuously leave to play something else.

Originally posted by grimal

But I know what you mean about the praise.  It's just something I don't agree with. Heck, popular opinion is that Avatar was a great film.  I hated almost everything about it and think James Cameron has taken a wrong turn...fuck, the same guy that made Aliens and Terminator 2 made this blue thundercats movie?  I, like many, loved UO.  I also like SWTOR a lot (which a lot of people hate).  It's just different tastes in the end.

Really, when you think about it, most games are pretty much the same but in a slightly different flavor.  "Sir, would you like the MMO with the warcraft syrup, the star wars syrup, the dungeons and dragons syrup (it's low fat), the guild wars milk (it's also reduced fat)?"

Ironically, though, Avatar is not critically acclaimed as a good film. The fans love it, other industry professionals not so much (aside from the visual fx). GW2, on the other hand, is recognized by other devs as an impressive game. However, most gamers continually say that it's crap.

Thing is, the game is very polarizing, and has been from day 1 of release. Some people 'get it' and enjoy it, others don't or it's just simply not the game for them. However, this always seems to quickly devolve into a pissing contest, of who is more riteous, which is absolutely ridiculous.

GW2 is not a perfect game, it has a lot of flaws, however it succeeded in doing the bulk of what it set out to do. But for whatever reason a lot of people seem incapable of accepting this. A game can be imperfect and still be successful. Just because you don't like a game, doesn't mean it's bad.

- The funny thing about people believing that all MMOs are the same, is that when you actually stop and take an objective look at ALL mmos, there is actually a lot of differences. We've just conditioned ourselves to think that they don't matter. It's kinda like saying all rock music is the same, or all cars are the same. When you think about things in general enough terms, everything seems the same. It's the details, design, & execution that make them different. All cars may have 4 wheels and an engine, but I don't think anyone would believe that a porsche is no different from a ford truck. Just as all FPS games have a retical and you shooting things, but I don't think anyone would argue that halflife is the same as Call of Duty, with a different paint job.

Some people really just need to stop watching development coverage. I know a lot of people can't help but ride that hype train but come on guys... this is a tech demo, it was never advertised as anything more. They aren't releasing the game yet, and they've tried to include us in the development process from a fairly early stage of the game.

This is how games work, you start smart small. Work w/ unrefined mechanics & concepts, and tweak them into a finished project. It's iterative. Most of what you guys are used to seeing as 'unveiled' spoilers, devs have actually been sitting on for months.

~ Anyways, it's good to see that they are finally getting around to the combat. it clearly needs tweaking, but I'll keep watching to see what they do with it. It still seems very early on, and I wouldn't be too worried about it unless they start throwing out a release date before that & the AI is done.

Sigh, more people who apparently don't know how to read quarterly reports.

NCSoft is actually up this quarter, though in some areas they are slightly down from last year. While GW2's sales are down this quarter, the games ~3 years old now. It shouldn't be that shocking that it's profits have dropped since launch. The fact that it's still selling as much as it is, is actually a good thing. Will NCSoft push for more? Probably, and tbh an expansion for the game would be a good thing.

As was said by Kano, if anything this is more telling of Wildstar's performance. For a new game it's numbers aren't nearly as good as they should be.

There is very little wisdom here.

The only habit you need to be a 'wise' consumer, is to get in the habit of researching things BEFORE you buy them.

Find out what you like, what you don't like, and look for things that match your own preferences. Also, keeping expectations low is pretty important as well, because it distorts new experiences for you. That's really all there is too it, and yet very few actually do this. They'd rather be told what to buy, because it's easier / requires no real effort.

Another important thing is to actually try new things. Most of the people here who can't seem to find a game they like, are having that problem because they refuse to step out of their comfort zone and try something new. They'd rather cling to a game they liked 10 years ago, even if they haven't actually played it in years.

Originally posted by Your-Mom

I've come to terms with the fact that no current mmorpg in the west is even remotely close to the level of graphical fidelity i want. so instead of wasting my time in any of them i'm taking a cold turkey til i can join black desert's open beta in november.

I've personally grown tired of poorly non-ambitious mmo's aka. everything currently on the western marked. I want visuals that pushes the status quo, in an open seamless world living breathing world. high-level character design - and equally important, high level animations (something every. single. western mmo fails at) along with fast-past combo-based action combat. (think vindictus 2.0)

I want npc's that have a live, goes home at night to sleep, instead of standing outside in the rain 24/7, i want armor to look ragged and dirty when it's getting used, and wet when it rains. on the same note i want the world to look wet when it rains, including puddles on the ground, muddy dirt roads etc. 

an open seamless world, with trade routes, and everything else that a sandpark would include.

And ofc player housing in the actual world's city's.

my biggest mistake was to participate in the BDO cbt2, because now everything looks and feels utterly outdated, it's such a quantum-leap compared to what we currently have in the west.

Yes, you and everyone want the heavens & the earth. It's easy to ask for everything, and then complain when things fail to deliver, but it's far from realistic.

For one, MMOs will ALWAYS be behind when it comes to graphics. Unless there comes a time where server & network tech takes a massive leap beyond graphics tech. These are what drive the limitations these games have, and there's a reason why single-player / heavily instanced games tend to look way better than MMOs. This also ties into why you don't have games with crazy graphics in a seamless world. There are tradeoffs for these features you want, and with higher graphics comes a smaller cap on how many people can be playing together in the same place, at the same time.

This gets further compacted when you talk about 'fast paced action combat'. Because now servers are processing a lot more information 'PER player'. And you're also adding on more elaborate AI, which i yet even more information that needs to be processed.

- Simply put, as long as your expectations are unrealistic, you will never find something you truly enjoy. Because you are looking for something that cannot exist.

By the time the game you are looking for right now exists, you will already be looking for something 100x more elaborate & pretty. It's a moving target of unrealistic expectations. It's great to have dreams of games like that, but not if it prevents you from enjoying the reality.

Wouldn't we all.

Unfortunately this comes down to a lack of perspective most of the time. Your 'truly EPIC' MMORPG doesn't have any specifics, it doesn't have anything put into practical use. It's just a series of preferences, wishful thinking, and features you want that have never actually been shown to be doable together.

Furthermore, that 'one game to be all games' mindset, is looking for a game that typically only comes out once every 20 years or so. Except your expecting it come out 'right now'. Take WoW for example. I've said this probably 100 times already, but the reason WoW has had the impact that it did, was because it was the first MMO to really blow up the MMO market. Before WoW the entire genre had a few 100 thousand people playing. Post-WoW, we have 10s of millions.

For many gamers WoW introduced them to MMOs. For others, WoW was the first game that had the buzz & popularity that it did, and was able to bring all their friends into the same game. The reason why no one's been able to copy its success, is because it already successfully saturated the market. No game can compete w/ that, because they aren't bringing nearly as many people. Most gamers have / already play MMOs. And regardless of what you think you want, that makes an impact on how you enjoy future games.

If you are expecting something to change the way the world thinks about the genre, every year, then everything is going to seem like crap in comparison. Regardless of whether or not it actually is.

- Until you are able to play a game w/ an open mind, and appreciate it for what it actually is, rather than how it differs from other games, you will not find one you enjoy. It's a trap that a lot of gamers seem to be stuck in atm.


I think your 'evolved' trinity needs some work. Especially if you're going to be using MOBAs as an example of how they work. (which is not to say that they aren't an excellent example of how to structure a game without having a trinity).

For one 'tank' isn't really a role in MOBAs. This is a misconception, and usually made by those who frankly don't know what they are doing. You can have 'tanky' characters, but it's not a role. It's a way of building your character (stacking defense/regen). That said:

You have support (which can also be your tank, though it doesn't have to be). Supports help your team as best they can. They provide buffs to allies, heals if they have them, they can initiate fights if needed, and they can also disengage (which is something most people forget about entirely).

You have damage / offense (sustained, burst)

You have control.

These may seem generalized (and they are), but most games with well fleshed out combat (which also have roles) consist of these 3 categories. Tanks, as a role / class, are really a very outdated (and honestly silly) design, that only really belong in military shooters (that actually have tanks as a vehicle).

To go back to MOBAs, again, as an example you can look at games like DotA and see 'tanky' characters, but what they offer is more than just being a giant punching bag. They are mostly there to disrupt, support, or offer highly sustainable damage. All of which fall into the above 3 categories. When you look at games like Chivalry or War of the Roses, you can have tanky knights, who don full platemail, however it's not their defenses that make them useful to the team. It's there ability to stay in the fight long enough to pump out crazy damage, whereas the archers die if people get too close.

- As for the other roles, I think one of the main issues w/ most trinity games atm is a lack of interaction between the player & the targets. Few bosses have mechanics that involve multiple ways of disruption, or force the players to change the way they play their class to tackle a specific boss over another. Perhaps the closest game to actually providing this was GW1, (though technically not an MMO) which tackled difficulty by providing bosses & enemies with varying skill combinations that required varied counters to overcome.

Originally posted by iridescence

So I see a vocal group of people posting here who say things like "I don't want a virtual world in my MMO" or "I don't want other players to be able to impact my game experience in ways I don't ask for"

I'm genuinely curious about this, is there something you actually get out of playing in a massively multiplayer game if those are your preferences? If they come out with better co-op focused RPGs like Divinity:Original Sin would you ever just stop playing MMOs entirely?

No offense but some of this stuff just seems like someone asking "I like FPSes but I hate shooting things. Can you make an FPS without guns?"

There is quite a bit of 'having your cake an eating it too' syndrome.

However, u also have to remember about things like trolls, griefers, and exceedingly annoying 9yr old kids. The idea behind a virtual world is great, but a pure virtual world means dealing with equal amounts of BS as we have to in our every day lives (if not more). And most people who play games don't want to deal w/ an equal dose of BS as to what they just left at work. They want to relax and have fun.

And that, there lies the dilemma. If you have a game w/ complete player freedom, it leaves players 'free' to ruin other players' experiences. If you don't, then you tread a slippery slope of 'how much freedom is too much?' and 'how much control means not enough freedom?'.

This is why sandboxes like minecraft are so great. If someone's being a prick you can simply boot them from the server. You can't really do that in an MMO.

Originally posted by bingbongbros
I wonder if they will segregate servers of pc's and xbox's. that would be awful to get a bunch of xbox users on my ranked team.

supposedly there will be separate servers for xbox & pc players.

Originally posted by CalmOceans

A decade or so ago, when I started to explore the internet, the internet seemed relatively drama free. News organisations weren't so active, social media wasn't so active, we didn't need mods all over the place.

It's different now, everything has to be PC correct, and news agencies love to cause waves and drama online. It's how they get clicks, it's how they bait people. Person A said this, and person B said this, and rights for this group and rights for this, drama here, drama there, bloggers and news organisations thrive on the drama they can create within communities.

MMO is one of the few places i feel there is no real political drama, there is no social drama, no PC correct police. Sure, there is guild drama, but not in a way that is bothersome, you can easily avoid it.

Do you feel otherwise or the same way. Thanks.

MMOs have plenty of drama. Just join a hardcore / raiding guild. Sit back and enjoy the popcorn while listening to the insane amount of epeen people have.

As for the internet.. 'back then' the internet was still a relatively new thing. Not everyone knew what to make of it, or how to use it. People were still set in old-world ways. There is no more or less drama on  the internet than any place else. There's just a lot more people (the world, to be specific), so it all gets way more accessible.

In short, there's just as much drama now as there was in the past, it's just easier to find and harder to ignore.

Originally posted by AlBQuirky


Originally posted by vandal5627

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by vandal5627

Originally posted by Spankster77

They only thing old MMORPGs gave you back in the day was something new and shiny.  It's been years since you played the first few MMORPGS, the novelty has warned off and you basically become bitter that you can't get that feeling again.  It's time to look for a new genre to get that feeling again  yo and stop blaming the games.  

Get a load of this guy...


No, I still get that feeling from new MMOs that are done in the oldschool style. My tastes haven't changed. The games have, radically. And I think everyone can agree on that.

Everyone eh?  Too funny.  Get a load of this guy........

So you think that MMOs have not changed in the past 15 years? I have to wonder about anyone who thinks they have not.

The funny thing is, while it's true MMOs have changed in the last 15 years, it's also true that WE have changed. Both in our tastes, and our expectations from what we play. However, the later we conveniently tend to ignore. Because it requires us to accept responsibility for our own actions.

An interesting thing to think about is to ask anyone, literally anyone what they favorite game / mmo / etc. of all time is. Then ask them the last time they've played it. Most people over age 20 will not name a game that has released in the last few years. They will also not have played their favorite game in the last few years.

And that's because we rarely go back. We get stuck in this mindset of constant progression, always looking for the next best thing, never satisfied. It's part of the human condition, and while it can be a very good thing, it is also a double-edged sword that can prevent us from enjoying good things.

When I first realized this about myself, I went back and played a bunch of my favorite games. Do I still enjoy them? Absolutely. But they never quite live up to how we remember them being. They're still great games, but we tend to forget the problems they used to have that new games have gotten away from, and instead fixate on the new problems these newer games now have.


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