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To all those who don't like GW2...
Beta Weekend Event Reviews & Impressions (Archived) « Guild Wars 2
5/20/12 4:15:21 AM
Originally posted by Distopia
Eh, he took the effort to make the thread. Usually you don't do that unless you care about the result. Especially true for one who doesn't post often.
To all those who don't like GW2...
Beta Weekend Event Reviews & Impressions (Archived) « Guild Wars 2
5/20/12 12:06:41 AM
Well, this thread pretty much went how I'd expect. Not sure what the best forums would be to ask a question like this about any MMO atm. There's just too much flaming on both sides of the isle during any popular AAA release.
For 1) Stop flaiming the only poster to actually respond to the OP guys. I too like the game, and no I don't think it's perfect. I also disagree with some of the points he made (ie. claiming the game is overpriced just seems puzzling to me. Whether you like the game or not, it has far more content in it than any other MMO I've seen in the passed few years. Including TOR, TSW, TERA, Aion, Firefall, etc. There's just a lot more there, and there's no subscription.) That said, he's welcome to his own opinion. I have felt that way about other games in the past, and it really comes down to whether or not you feel like buying it.
2) I find it curious that the OP hasn't posted yet. His OP seems sincere, but he seems strangely absent from the topic. Who knows what to make of that.
To hopefully help out the OP a bit w/ his question, I will state some observations I've made about people most adamant about not liking this game.
- Most of them (on this site) either tend to be sandboxers, or not big fans of MMOs in general.
- Some people are just sick of the fantasy genre in general.
- Most have played WoW at some point (and really, who hasn't).
Sorry to say this, OP, but I think you are not going to get a very accurate depiction of whether or not the game is for you based on this subject. Maybe it has worked for you well in the past, but I don't really see it helping you here. If you want to ask me any specific questions about the game, or what types of games you like, I'd be happy to answer them. I'm not so blind as to ignore the flaws of GW2, and the game has flaws. I also realize and accept that the game will not be for everyone. It caters to a very particular type of player, and while they are trying to accomodate a wider audience, they will still have a tough time given how the game is setup. It's not unlike what Eve went through, though less severe. It is a different type of MMO. It is doing things differently, but it is still an MMORPG. If it's the rpg elements of MMOs you don't like, or you are just sick of fantasy based MMOs, stay away. It's a good game, but you will most likely have trouble finding enjoyment with such a heavy bias going in.
The game caters very much towards people who like to explore, figure things out on their own, and strategize / buildcraft. There's already a lot of players of the game who don't fit into that category, and either find themselves missing a ton of content, or royally confused about the game mechanics. Hope that helps.
Originally posted by Synthetick
That sucks man, but ya I wouldn't trust Gamestop for anything. They really are a terrible retailer, with only a couple stores under that banner having pleasantly surprised me. The vast majority of my experiences with those stores have been awful.
Getting it straight from the source is definitely your best bet. Looks like they may even have some available as well (I believe the next BWE is the weekend of the 27th, so you still have time. Good luck.
Originally posted by Veldara
Last I checked, noone complained about the amount of content in Demon Souls, or Dark Souls. Or Eve, or kingdoms of Amalur, or Torchlight, or Diablo 2, or Starcraft 2.... damn. You're right. There's just no satisfying games anymore. Guess I should go hand back my copies of Arkham City and Uncharted 2 as well.
Originally posted by Temp1234
Your OP didn't say that at all actually. May be a good time to revise it to reflect what you are actually trying to get out of this thread. The OP currently reads like 'i'm curious about GW2, mount & blade seems better, is it true?'. Which is not only asking for a comparison, but is also flame bait.
That said, gestalt posting a really good video for you. If you are honestly looking into the game, then I would strongly recommend checking these out. They are long, but show off how WvW can be played, fairly well:
Battle of Dreaming Bay:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPZHsfa6gEs (Preliminary Narrative, can skip to ~5:40 if you want to skip it. But it sets up the siege rather nicely).
http://www.twitch.tv/okuraku/b/316654818 Shows the first part of the siege w/ out a narrative (covers what's narrated in the first video from a live-streamed point of view).
http://www.twitch.tv/okuraku/b/316654335 (part 2 of the above video)
To the part in green: That is exactly the type of incentive that exist in WvW. At the end of the dreaming bay videos, you may notice that they captured a relic. There are 3 or 4 relics in WvW, and any of the 3 teams can capture them and hide them in any of the keeps they currently own. These relics give buffs to your team. The more relics you own, the more buffs your world has.
In addition to this you get server bonus' as you gain more & more points in WvW. These are everything from exp boosts, to increased health, to crafting boosts, etc. They are definitely helpful, so there are incentives. In addition to this is the supply meta-game in WvW. You need supply to upgrade keeps, to build siege equipment, and to repair things that get broken (including your keep's main gate). You can only get supply from supply depots around the maps. If your team captures the supply depots around a keep, that depot will continuously send supply dolyaks (they look like giant bulls) to deliver supply to your keeps slowly over time. However, the enemy can also capture this, and can even hunt down the dolyak delivering supply and kill him before he has a chance to reach your keep (thus starving your team's supply). This is one of the tactics Team Legacy used in the videos above, to take on a much larger force than they had.
- As for 'will it get zergy', of course it will. It's a massive battle. Whenever you have people who aren't coordinated in a massive battle, they tend to mob up for safety. However, there are PLEANTY of ways to combat this. There's tons of AoEs you can throw. There's arrow carts, cannons, and trebuchets which easily can tear apart a zerg in seconds. So there you have it, those are the main elements of WvW, and that's where a lot of the tactics revolve around (and this game is VERY tactical, if you know what you are doing). I'm not going to say that people are going to play this game without using their brain, but if you are the type of player that likes to think about what he's doing, strategize, and make your own plans for how to tackle challenges. You will probably have a TON of fun in this game's WvW. I know I did, and 100s of others seemed to as well, even if I was cleaving their faces in.
The PvP this game has that has no real incentives atm is their instanced (arena) pvp. It's not massive, it's limited to small 5v5 matches, and there are currently only a handful of maps. They are working on these, and I know they want these to be some kind of an e-sport type deal, but atm structured pvp doesn't appear to be one of this game's stronger features. It's fun, but limited, and after playing WvW it just feels a bit lackluster.
The "Should I buy/try The Secret World" test!
General Discussion « The Secret World
5/19/12 6:53:28 PM
Originally posted by terrant
I've got to agree. Many of the questions are worded in a way where one option just clearly sounds better than the other. Furthermore, some of the options that seem to be 'pro-TSW' seem to contradict with what I've seen from the game thus far. Needs more questions at the very least.
Anyway, I like where the OP is going w/ the survey, & hope he tweaks it a bit more. Definitely something I'd like to see done w/ more MMOs pre-release.
Diablo 3: Doom & Gloom for Diablo 3?
News & Features Discussion « General Discussion
5/18/12 12:19:49 PM
Originally posted by Nadia
.... Except that. Starcraft 2 didn't have these issues. Diablo III, inspite of their claims, is a single player game with multiplayer features added on. The content is absolutely no different from one to the other, it just has the same ramped difficultly that D2 had. The most 'multiplayer' feature the game has is the RMT AH that they forced on us players.
Furthermore, it's not just the day 1 server downs, though to call that anything short of a disaster is a bit delusional. We are also forced to use battle.net, for a single player game, which not only clearly has problems staying online, but also has lag issues as well. In the past, if I wanted to play w/ my friends, we could either LAN it or setup our own network, and not have to worry about any of that stuff. Now it's all forced on us.
Maybe you guys like the direction this game has been taken in. Personally, I do not want to be reliant on an internet connection & unreliable servers to play anything that doesn't have to have them. I wouldn't accept this from skyrim, or arkham city, or uncharted; and it's not required for Torchlight 2. So I really don't see how it's all of a sudden 'okay'. If this was happening w/ any other title, I don't think people would be as accepting.
The guys an idiot. There's multiple examples in the video to demonstrate this. The most obvious being at the end, when he thinks the enemy won 'magically through some glitch', when it's clearly from killing one of the NPCs. Furthermore he:
2) Complains that there are no Interrupts: Headshot (which is clearly on his skill bar btw) He's also using a class that has the least amount of CC in favor of more damage / utility.
3) Says the combat is 'too easy' because he is just spamming the 3 button. However... He isn't just using the 3 button, he's building all of his skills around the 3 button. He's using his other skills to buff that one skill, and that one skill only. I'm also unsure as to where he got the idea, but you could do this in GW1 as well if you want. I guess he doesn't remember touch or barrage rangers, or IWAY, or spike builds. These were always a staple, but a smart player can counter this w/ out too much difficulty.
- The guy also (in the same statement) goes from saying that 'everyone is unskilled' (including himself in part of the video), and that the it's too easy to kill people. Maybe it's just me, but that is just retarded. Show me a game w/ PvP, in which it's not difficult to kill horrible players?
Another thing you might notice is he isn't doing much of anything the entire match. He's being carried by his team while he wanders around spamming the 3 button.
There are quite a few videos of skilled gameplay, but this is so far from that it's a joke. I'm curious as to who he was in GW1, because he seems equally ignorant of both GW1 and GW2, as many of the things he complains about / says is missing exist in both games (to this day).
Originally posted by gestalt11
I can actually attest to this. Thief & mesmer specifically are great for this. I spent most of my time in WvW fighting in melee. I switched to ranged every now and then to keep the enemy at a distance while my group re-grouped, but that was about it.
- In an open field. He who knows how to charge effectively is king. Learn how, and when to charge, and you will be whiping the floor w/ dead enemies.
- In a tight skirmish: This should be a no-brainer. It should go w/ out saying that if you can't melee in a small skirmish situation then you either need A TON of practice, but you may want to consider avoiding melee for a while until you get better at the game.
- In a keep siege: There are quite a few different things to do when attacking a keep. Pounding on the gate isn't the only thing to be done, and in some cases it's not even necessary (sometimes it's better to just blow up one of the walls and ignore the gate completely). You can also pull people off the walls, teleport over the walls (my personal favorite), scout, cut-off enemy reinforcements, stop enemy supply lines, build siege equipment, etc. You have options. Everyone is focused on the gate. That's what 99% of the players expect. So, surprise surprise, if you only go after the gate, you are going to always be met with the greatest part of the enemy forces. If you flank them (unless they are a very coordinated group) I guaruntee they will not expect it, and you will be able to kill quite a few players that way if you are skilled.
Personally, I love encountering players who only know how to pvp @ 1200 range. It's so easy to close that gap that they always freak out when you're in their face, and they generally go down w/ out much trouble. It's the players that are consistantly going in & out of close - long range that are the most difficult.
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Google is your friend, but yes, people have made a few different DPS guardian builds. Some center around spectral weapons. Some center around a sword / torch combo (teleport / burning). The guardian isn't a very strong range class, tbh. It's one of the only classes in the game that suffers from this. They are very good at gap closing, though. However, the subject of melee vs. ranged in WvW has been beaten to death, revived, and then beaten to death again.
You don't need to fight in WvW like a mexican standoff (standing back and flinging projectiles). However, most people do that, because it's obvious, and it's easy. If you want to help out w/ those fights, then I'd suggest doing what the guardian does best, lay down some ranged support. They have tons of that, and deflecting enemy ranged attacks is just as good as sitting back spamming meteor shower.
As a guardian, if you plan on doing a lot of WvW, I'd suggest trying out the following playstyles:
1) group support / melee build. Leading charges, laying down boons, shields, etc, is very useful in WvW.
2) skirmisher: avoid the main assaults until the gates are down. Take out enemy supply lines / flank stragglers, etc.
3) infiltrate: Some keeps you can actually get up onto the walls before they come down. Or, you can knock people down off the walls, putting them within melee range of your attacks.
If none of the above playstyles suit you, then I'd suggest either finding a decent group to run w/ (coordinate is key), or maybe checking out one of the other classes. Also, don't forget the importance of siege equipment. If you find a lot of ranged fights forming, buying some arrow carts may not be a bad idea. A kill is a kill, regardless of whether you use your weapons or a siege cannon to get it.
- Just a side note: This game is all about figuring things out for yourself. If the obvious choice doesn't seem to work, try looking around for a solution you may not have thought about. The sooner you start thinking that way, the more of an advantage you'll have in the game. There will still be a lot of people who don't do that, but they will mostly end up as fodder in PvP.
I see an awful lot of assumptions in the OP, with no reasoning or facts to back it up.
For example, how is D3 a multiplayer game with single player mode added? In what way is the game designed around multiplayer first? I have to go through more steps to try and setup a multiplayer game, than I do a single player, I'm not sure where you got that idea from.
Also online-only = hack free? Where did you get this notion from? Ignoring the fact that D2's online system was still riddled with hacks & dupes, Blizzard has always had one of the largest problems with hackers, period. In all their online games. There's a reason Blizzard is not only the first, but remains one of the few companies that pushes authenticators so often. Their games get hacked far more often than other developers.
I'm really curious as to where you got the ideas in your OP from, because it sounds like you're reading off a Blizzard press release, instead of providing your own thoughts.
Bold Prediction - The Secret World Will Be Game of The Year.
General Discussion « The Secret World
5/16/12 9:53:43 PM
Originally posted by madjonNZ
Though, don't get me wrong, TSW has some really awesome features that I really like. I think TSW will do well in it's own right, but it's not the type of game that will do well mainstream.
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
First of all, finding perfection in an MMO is an effort in futility. It's like trying to find the perfect president. There's just too many people involved for that to ever be practical. The most you could hope for is to try and make one yourself, which would likely take half your lifetime to accomplish, still not have the graphics you want, and you will still have to compromise on features if you ever want it to see the light of day.
Point is 'perfection' in an MMO is not the right approach. MMOs should still try to be as good as they possibly can, but it's a lot more along the lines of 'What is this game trying to accomplish? How well does it do that? And do I agree with what they are trying to accomplish?' anything else is just setting yourself up for failure.
- As for moments where you feel at a loss for what's going on, what do you feel could be / should be done differently? Do you feel like every event needs a cutscene? Would you prefer this game put a big flashy pop-up window with what's going on? The thread has shown that there are explanations for all sorts of events, and all of the ones that were given as examples. So I am a bit curious as to how you would want things done differently.
Does ANet have a plan for 5 months post release?
General Discussion « Guild Wars 2
5/16/12 11:39:46 AM
Short answer, yes. They do have a plan.
How well it will play out is another matter entirely. People seem to be enjoying the game, but there is a lot of heavily skewed criticism going both ways for this game. It's to be expected, but it's difficult to see how many people will be playing this game going in with the wrong type of mindset and then leaving.
I am also concerned about the longevity of WvW servers. They are a ton of fun, and a lot of people seem to be enjoying them, so we'll have to just wait and see i suppose.
Diablo 3: Review-in-Progress Part One
News & Features Discussion « General Discussion
5/16/12 11:36:29 AM
Originally posted by BillMurphy
Actually Bill, it is.
It's about as much an MMO as starcraft 2. Having RPG elements doesn't change that. I get why you guys are covering it, it's popular, but I wouldn't try and justify it as being an MMO when it's clearly not.
Originally posted by Lobotomist
Actually, Loke's right about this one Lobo. You may want to check your friendly neighborhood wiki. While Diablo is referenced in the hack & slash genre, it's far from the only game, and it's certainly not the first. It was released at the end of 1996, far after that genre had been established.
Originally posted by Adalwulff
If you want a basic build for WvW, here goes. This is what I used early on, and works until you are a high enough lvl to get more utility slots and really start fleshing out your character.
sword + warhorn :: greatsword :: mending :: for great justice.
If you want a little ranged pew-pew, you can swap out the greatsword for a rifle, but I would keep the warhorn. Warhorns are godlike in WvW, unless you have a friend w/ you doing the buffing. Not only is it great for travel, but it can be used both as a gap closer, and gap opener. What's even better is it works on everyone around you, meaning that you will generally have a bunch of people charging w/ you if you use it at the right times.
Keep in mind that WvW is nearly always group-oriented combat. So don't approach it with the single-player mindset. You can't charge in alone, and expect everyone to follow all the time. You need to do it w/ incentive. Try a few small pushes against enemies that over-commit / over extend. If you see that you're group is following, then continue the push. If not, get in a small burst of damage on that over-extended enemy, and charge / rush / whirlwind back to your home team before you become over-extended yourself. It's a sort of dance, and you need to familiarize yourself w/ the rhythm.
Originally posted by Gorudu
Oh god, when will the melee threads end!?!
Since this is about WvW specifically, I'll address this. However, this issue has been done to death, just fyi.
You are correct in that Melee does more damage than ranged. However, that is NOT the only advantage to playing a melee build. You also have more control as a melee character. You do get more survivability skills, you also tend to have more CC depending on the weapon. Keep in mind this is a weapon based game, so just being 'melee' doesn't really mean much unless you are using the correct weapon for the situation. That said:
In WvW, as with the rest of the game, ranged is easier to play, as in it requires less situational awareness & coordination. Every class can also switch to a ranged weapon, so this isn't really an issue. It's easier, but not necessarily better. There are pleanty of situations & tricks for melee to get into range. You can pull people off the keep walls, you can do a part speed boost (basically a group charge) and just plow into the enemy to catch them on the run. You can try and infiltrate the keep walls, and flank the defenders on the walls (i have done this, and people do not expect it. You will clean house).
However, all of these tactics can be used incorrectly, resulting in an embarassing defeat. That's the key to this game a lot of people aren't getting. It's strategic & tactical. If you decide to lead a charge, but the enemy has stopped and has backup / siege support, you are going to die. You need to charge at the right times, and it's something that takes experience to figure out. Furthermore, if you try and flank the walls, but you are obvious about it, people will see you coming, and you will die. You need to play smarter if you want to be a melee. You can't just run in leeroy style and expect to faceroll everything. You need to be smart about it.
Originally posted by p_c_sousa
It's all going to depend on how the feel about the feedback they get that weekend. Also, if we see that the graphics have been optimized in the next BWE, we know that they are expecting to release sooner rather than later. I'm betting we'll see at least one of the other races (if not both) in the next beta, so they can test out their starting areas and see if it's good enough for launch.
Originally posted by Fusion
Just a heads up, many times you can talk to one of the NPCs (if they are alive) to find that out. For example, the killing spiders quest in queensdale. The NPC that you turn the apples into repeatedly talks about how 'she needs more apples to bake her pies!'. That's the explanation right there for that one. She needs to bake more pies, but she needs apples. As for the spiders 'clear out any spiders that are threatening her farm' is the explanation given by the heart event itself.
There is more explanation there, but I can also see how a lot of people would miss them. They aren't made extremely obvious in this game. You do have to take the initiative to look for them (or ask other players).