All Posts by Jimmy_Scythe

You have entered the door to the north.

You are now by yourself.

Standing in a dark room.

The pungent stench of mildew eminates from the wet dungeon walls.

????!

You know someone that hits from multiple bongs at once???

For the love of Gawd man!! Post that on youtube!!

So in a fit of nostalgia, I went looking for some Dead Kennedys songs on youtube and came accross Chickenshit Conformist Like Your Parents. If you had trouble understanding all of that you can find the lyrics here.

What amazes me is how this song actually defines much of what gamer culture has become. Some lines that stand out to me:

If the music's gotten boring It's because of the people who want everyone to sound the same

You could actually rewrite this as the games being boring because of people that insist that every game plays the same. FPS, RTS, and especially MMORPGs suffer this problem.

Harder-core-than-thou for a year or two Then it's time to get a real job

This is one for those that take the label of "gamer" more seriously than necessary. Once you grow up and get some actual obligations, being hardcore about anything other than survival becomes practically impossible.

Others stay home; it's no fun to go out When the gigs are wrecked by gangs and thugs

This line made me immediately think of XBox Live and Barrens chat.

Agree with us on everything Or we won't help with anything

I personally think this one is obvious, but take a look at the first page of posts on any gaming forum if you don't get it.

The music's OK when there's more ideas than solos Do we really need the attitude too?

By that same token, games are OK when there are more ideas than games on the market. The gamer attitude is really superfluous under those conditions. Problem is, I'm not sure if we didn't pass beyond that point years ago.

Casual.... You mean like this? or maybe this? Nope. No challenge there....

Seriously, you fail so hard it's almost frightening.

Grind != challenge.

Originally posted by Reianor

By request, I'm gonna go with a color that's not as harsh on the eyes.

To Jimmy_Scythe

Since people (and bears) are starting to complain about red, I wont be quoting this time.

While I do have a strange understanding of term "gamer", I at least know that gamer is not just "someone who plays games". I dunno wiki it or something...And while someone who plays just solitaire may fit official description, saying "I'm a gamer cause I play solitaire" sounds funny at best.

No more rediculous than trying to set up velvet ropes around yourself in a lame attempt to try and look special when you aren't.

About hanging out and playing - you obviously didn't get the difference between hanging out with someone cause u play together and playing with someone cause u hang out together...

Why does this conjure up the image of a bunch of crackheads lighting up in an abandoned building.

Even if your friend is a decent opponent u'll eventually tire of playing against him, that's where net hops in. And if he isn't? Not everyone likes playing at half his skill or on contrary loosing to someone who's twice as good as him. That's something net can take care of and ss can't.

Never had this problem honestly. Most of the people I hang out with catch on pretty quick. I'm also not adverse to playing a game that's more the speed of my opponent. I know, I know, actual human contact sometimes requires respect and compromise which is why you avoid it at all costs.

The difference between player who doesn't communicate and a "well made bot" is that second doesn't exist...

And you've played every game AI ever made to reach this conclusion? I'm gonna call bullshit since this is both subjective and unfalsifiable.

Also Im not sure i played 4th SC -there's just to many fighting games to remember them all- but I don't remember any other fighting with split screen. It's two players on one screen, yes, but it's not being split.

Yes, there are bunches of games that were single screen multiplayer and just as many split screen games. You're trying to prove something that is entirely a matter of taste and that's a losing battle. More on that in my next reply.

Maybe that's my eng. playing tricks on me but available and "available to buy" are not the same aren't they? When I posted about "net-play being available" I meant you can boot up your pc/console, and start playing, cause u have all u need for that already.

Local (as in the same machine) multiplayer is becoming rarer all the time. Perfect example is Crackdown for the XBox 360. Crackdown is a blast to play with another player, but you can only play multiplayer online. You can't play split screen. BTW, Gears of War has a huge following and most of the people that I know who played it, played it split screen with a friend.

Also, yes, if u're trying to observe what's happening on two monitors at the same time, or just have both of them in your view range that's distracting as well.

While it's technically same game, it's still something your attention shouldn't be focused at. And it can also look different - an fps map can consist of sunlit area and a dark cave + there can be more movement and it can be more intensive (there's a reason some gamers buy those "fast" monitors).

The problem here is that you're trying to tell us that we shouldn't like split screen. Who are YOU to tell ME what I should and shouldn't like. Throughout this entire discussion I've been trying to make you realize how shallow and totally stuck up your own ass you seem to be and you continually miss the fucking point. I don't care that you don't like split screen. You not liking it doesn't make it an absolute evil.

And another reason some escapist "act so fucked up online" is because of people offending them irl, against whom they can't "use negative re-enforcement" because they're weaker. So u think "negative re-enforcement" must only be applyed to those who are weak irl?

This isn't even remotely a justification. So you feel bad about yourself and you want other people to feel just as bad about themselves? Explain to me how this ISN'T totally ignorant.

And here's another story - Billy is afraid to go to scool because of "little kids" in school who keep beating him up. And guess what? This story continues as Billy grows. So u think he has the right to hate most people in the world and offend them?

No. No I don't. I think Billy needs to take inventory of his behavior and ask what he does that makes people despise him and then behave differently. If it's a matter of prejudice, then Billy needs to find support system outside of that's antagonizing or find a neutral third party to intervene and put a stop to what's going on.

"At that point I realized that the problem with the gaming industry was hardcore gamers." Yeah, yeah...How many "hardcore gamers" have u seen trying to bend real life to their rules? U didn't get a thing from what I was posting about resort...

All hardcore gamers are doing this by demanding truckloads of padded features ripped straight out of Shenmue and Grand Theft Auto 3. Hardcore gamers demand games where you spend most of your time chewing on the scenery as you mosey from checkpoint to checkpoint. Hardcore gamers demand long boring cinematics or, worse yet, equally boring dialog trees that have you watching the game instead of playing it. Hardcore gamers demand mountains of unlockable content that requires endless hours of repeating the same tasks and ultimately add nothing to the core gameplay. Hardcore gamers demand "realism" out of one side of their mouths as they demand bullshit features like autohealing out of the other. The industry catering to the minority that is the hardcore is the entire reason why none of the upcoming AAA games are worth getting worked up about.

Having been into video and computer games since the age of 4, I've seen better times. Going from the games I grew up with, in the late 80's and early to mid 90's, to what we have now is like going from crack cocaine to strawberry dackeries. It's just not the same rush. You can tell me that I'm just growing up and all that, but I can still pick up those old games and get the same thrill I experienced when I played them the first time.

"I realized that things I disliked the most were the things that hardcore gamers screamed for the most." Then how about playing something casual? With so much of that casual @#$% around, you wont even have to search for it... Instead u're complaining that hardcore gamers are spoiling game industry. Why don't we go ahead and change official volleyball rules so that those who can't get the ball over the net are allowed to get it under (or maybe remove the net?), and to hell with those who think it's a sport, and like it that way...

Point is, I don't think that the "hardcore" really have a clue what video games are really all about.

GAMES ARE NOT MOVIES!!!!! Neither are they books or amusement park rides.

Show of hands from the old timers: How many of you played Doom for the story? Super Mario Brothers? Zelda? Half-Life?

Given, Half-Life did have (by video game standards at least) a very good story, but that story always took a backseat to the gameplay. In fact, in the best examples of games that tell us stories, the story is kind of slid under the door so quietly that you barely notice it. Then Final Fantasy VII got released and all that changed. Suddenly developers realized that all they had to do was make two hours of cut scenes, a huge play area, sprinkle monsters and "bonus items" around semi-randomly, and then pad the whole thing out to 100+ hours and the hardcore would jump on it like passed out female at a frat party. Excuse me for finding this to be somewhat exploitative and unsatisfying.

"From my exp. people who offend others in online games mostly have no offline life That is exactly what I was getting at in my original post. The addendum to that is that most of those same people only play online because no one associate with them in real life."

What you said in your original post is that most online players are bastards and thus have no real life. And I said that most online bastards have no real life. Those are two different statements.

You're half right. I stated that people that ONLY play games ONLINE are bastards that no one wants to associate with and therefore have not friends in real life. Those people in no way constitute "most."

 Originally posted by Reianor

 

That depends on how one persives (perceives) the term gamer. Basicly I persive "gamer" as someone who boot's up his [insert gaming device here] not to hang out, but to enjoy the game and do his best against it's chalenges.

I think you need to clarify that as video gamer. Here are some quick definitions of the word game:

1 a (1): activity engaged in for diversion or amusement : play

3 a (1): a physical or mental competition conducted according to rules with the participants in direct opposition to each other

(2): any activity undertaken or regarded as a contest involving rivalry, strategy, or struggle

A gamer would be said to be someone that plays games. Anything from solitaire to World of Warcaft. Thing is, most games, especially multiplayer games, are social in nature. If you go to the park to play one on one basketball with whoever is there, you may intend to just play basketball, but you still end up "hanging out."

Now, split screen doesn't help even a bit with this. If u use split screen when u have opportunity to use any form of network (unless u're paying chess by mail with a delay... then again chess don't need split screen...) u're using it to hang out (unless u prefer playing with one half of the screen avaliable to full screen).

If you're playing a multiplayer game,  you're socializing whether you're aware of it or not. And you keep implying that people that play games socially are "not gamers" or are  playing games "wrong." Again, who the fuck are you to be declaring these things? Who made you the Grand Overseer of All That Is Gaming? Get over yourself already.

Back to the split screen thing, There are hella number of people that don't mind. In the Navy, most shops have an XBox with Halo 2 slotted and  people jump in and out of an ongoing four-player , split screen deathmatch in between various tasks. Most college dorms, where almost everyone has an internet connection, have consoles set up in common rooms with people playing split screen or local games of Halo 3, Guitar Hero, Madden, Soul Calibur 4, etc. Playing a game online, even against friends loses a considerable amount of interaction (going back to the phone sex analogy).  Seriously, if  you don't communicate with the other players, what's the difference between playing online and playing a really well build bot?

I've done LAN parties, and they're a blast, but they're a major pain in the ass. Of course developers love networked games since it means everyone needs to buy their own copy of the software AND the hardware needed to run it. Somewhere along the line, the industry spent a lot of money to promote online gaming and the hardcore crowd swallowed the whole sales pitch.

On the other hand when something similar is happening right next to your half of the screen it's distracting. Imagine watching a movie on one part of the screen while having another movie on the other - even if u have no interest in one of them, watching the other wont be that pleasant.

But there isn't another movie on the rest of the screen, it's the same game. You can make the same argument about multiple monitors in the same room as well. Why don't you just admit that you don't have any friends and bow out now? There's nothing wrong with being a hermit if that's your thing. Just stop expecting everyone else that plays games to be the same way.

It doesn' matter how big is your whole screen unless your part of the screen covers your etire view range including it's "bordering" part. I guess u don't have a screen that big. So u're basicly sacrificing comfort and efficiency of playing for having your friend next to u. And u call yourself a gamer?

If I'm playing someone that's in the same house as me, I shouldn't have to spend twice as much to play the same damn game. It's different when your friend is all the way across town, but if you're playing with a roommate, your spouse, your kids, or just a guest, networking is a gainourmous waste of cash.

The fact that one's visiting gym doesn't make one bodybuilder, the fact that one's singing in bathroom doesn't make one a singer. And i'm not even talking about professionals here. Being someone classified by action requires sertain level of devotion. There's a word for those who play but don't take gaming seriously - casual. And while it's being extened to "casual gamer", those words don't mach. Kinda like "old youngster"... And no, I'm not mixing "hardcore gamer" with just "gamer", those are even thurther...

</sarcasm> WE'RE NOT WORTHYYYYYY!!!!!!!

Actual gamers remember Twisted Metal's mp not as an opportunity to hang out but as an opportunity to play with another human, how is that different from "hanging out" again?

and that (playing with another human) just as well can be done over net. With lag, cheaters, and offensive remarks as an added bonus huh?

I'm not stating noone prefers split screen, I'm stating that those who do, aren't gamers.

What was your name again?... Cause for a second I almost thought you were someone important enough to making these kinds of public announcements.

Game club? maybe if talking is needed more then TS server can provide... (and even then home + net give more comfort then live talk) Split screen? Naaah...

In other words if we translate that to your comparison to to fat women, and there was a term for people who are into slim ones - I'm not calling those who aren't desperate or stating they have no self respect, they just don't fit into that term. More then that, if they're stating that preffering slim women is some kind of abnormality they just don't know much about it. Does it still look to u like I'm the one offending u?

It's never looked like you were offending me. It's looked like you were putting on heirs that aren't yours and never have been. If anyone's being offended here, it's you.

I don't get it - u're saying that most online gamers should get a kick in...[BALLS!]... And u expect gamers to sit by and listen?

Nope, I stated that asshats in public should be taken out behind the woodshed and beaten like redheaded step children. The fact that we can't use negative re-enforcement on these people is the reason they act so fucked up online.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear? It's not most, it's some. You know, I tend to encounter many assholes irl. How would u feel if I state - most people leading active social life are assholes blah-blah-blah... What would that say about me? That I judge many people by actions of few, and dare to take offence to those I don't even know.

Quick story: Last year I attended an offline Halo 3 tournament. I tried to get some of my friends to go but they all said the same thing, "I fucking hate those little kids on XBox Live!" I get the same kind of reply when I try to get them to attend some of the bigger LAN parties in this area. The racist, homophobic, misogynic, loudmouth is becoming a stereotype of online gamers and it didn't materialize out of thin air.

That's exactly how u look with your statement. But I don't run around rl entertainment establishments telling people who vist them, that most of them are assholes. And here you are, on mmo related site's forums calling most of its visitors bastards. So, "who the fuck are u" (your own phrase) to offend people u don't know?

The only people that would get offend by my first post are people that fit the description I offered. Most of the people on this site don't fit that description and won't get offended because it doesn't apply to them.

So, great!, u are no longer frustrated, and more than that - u abandoned online gaming. May I ask what urge led you to coming to an mmo related site to offend online gamers? That frustration I mentioned, while being a sorry excuse, was still "some kind of" excuse. And, according to you, you don't have even that.

If you look to your left, you'll notice my post count. Once upon a time, I spent quite a bit of time here. Then I played all the way through Bioshock one weekend and something snapped. I fucking hated Bioshock and as I deconstructed the why of my hate I realized that things I disliked the most were the things that hardcore gamers screamed for the most. At that point I realized that the problem with the gaming industry was hardcore gamers. I posted about it. I blogged about it.

After venting, I realized that I was spending entirely too much time online, so I took a month off with no internet at all. I was much happier. I got to sleep earlier, woke up earlier, cleaned my house, lost 15 pounds, played video games more often, got reacquainted with the people around me in real life and so on. I mostly just use the internet to check my email and play games on Gametap anymore and I've been very pointedly avoiding the forums.

Then I decided to see if MMORPG.com had changed at all (it hasn't) when I found this thread. Some of  Blow's statements coincided with my own conclusions about what's currently wrong with the gaming industry so I thought I'd reply with my two cents and then walk away. Unfortunately, I like to fence verbally so I got suckered into this little discussion we're having.

From my exp. people who offend others in online games mostly have no offline life That is exactly what I was getting at in my original post. The addendum to that is that most of those same people only play online because no one associate with them in real life.

Originally posted by mike470

Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe

So in conclusion, people that ONLY play games online are incapable of having any kind of real life social network due to being complete douche bags.

 

 

Yeah, cause we all know having social disorders, having troubles making new firends, or being overly nervous around new people has nothing to do with it...nope, they're just douchebags according to you.

Um... Am I the only person here that thinks the term "social disorder" sounds like a politically correct way of saying "potential serial rapist?"

Seriously, acting like an asshole in public is still acting like an asshole in public. BTW, the internet is a public place.

Originally posted by Reianor

Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe

Originally posted by nomadian

 

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Most of the "hardcore" that ONLY play games online don't have any friends in real life

---

 

Erm you do know part of the reason WoW is popular is because of it's 'recruit a friend' scheme, its clever marketing encouraging friends to play together. I really doubt many hardcore players lack friends, that is just being bigoted without a shred of evidence.

 

I edited for emphasis since you seem to have been ignoring the qualifying clause of that statement. Be honest, Which do you enjoy more?:

1) playing Halo split-screen with friends.

2) playing Halo over Xbox Live.

I'm betting that most of you are going to pick door number one. The rest of you are probably playing locked games with people that you already know in real life.

Judging from the behavior of most players in public games, I'm drawing the conclusion that that no one in their right mind would be able stay within 50 feet of these people without submitting to the primal urge to kick the little bastards directly in the balls. Of course, this isn't just an XBox Live thing as any CS:S player or Barrens chat veteran can attest.

So in conclusion, people that ONLY play games online are incapable of having any kind of real life social network due to being complete douche bags.

 

 

Show just how much u know about gaming... There was one HUGE reason why FPS didn't make it into PSX favored genre - mp problems. Split screen is second worse implementaition type of mp I've ever seen and can remember atm (1st being "limited player options" type like in some old sega game where one player was moving a robot and the other was shooting based on that same robot's location and direction (all in overtop view)). Every single console/pc game with mp worth mentioning had some way off leting people play without dividing or loosing parts of the screen. (like hot seat or "single screen"). Well, there're probably a few exeptions, where single screen is not that important, but those definitly aren't shooters. I tryed split screens many times in many games - no self respecting gamer would use those when there's a network alternative avaliable for the same game.

Who the fuck are you to set the standard of what constitutes a "self respecting gamer?" You're like some fratboy asshole that boldly states how only the desperate date fat chicks. Guess What? Some people dig  fat chicks and some people don't have issues with split screens. We've had TVs and computer monitors larger than 32" for a long time now and at 720p I don't think anyone is squinting at the screen to see what's going on.

YOU have an issue with split screen games, not everyone. To be completely honest, I don't think anyone would have remembered Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Twisted Metal, Wipeout or Mario Kart if they had been online only. Yeah, I know that the interweb was a new-fangled thingamabob back then, but hypothetically speaking...

 

Ever had a decent mmorpg clan? I guess not... Nor did u get in a decent party... Yes, there are assholes playing mmos, there're assholes "showing off" their "assholeness" by throwing "lol! nOOb!" at unsuspecting victims, there're even assholes accusing online players of being assholes right here in this topic :P , but there are normal players as well, and the fact that they don't prove their existence on world chats over and over like assholes do, doesn't mean they don't exist. And the fact that u're offending gamers just cause they play over net, only shows that u're not far from those assholes.

ooooooo! the redundant rebuttal that doesn't actually cancel out the original statement! I actually just write this off as you taking a personal affront to my comments which says more about you than me.

The ones who's behavoir u disapprove, behave so out of frustration caused by real life. And here u are acting as an asshole out of frustration caused by them. And u're at least as guilty of their behavior as those who u're accusing along with them are guilty of yours. So how come u think u're any better?

Are games an escape from real life or an extension of real life? That's an important question and the primary separation point from "hardcore" gamers and the rest of humanity. I'm not frustrated anymore. I abandoned online gaming and have been quite a bit happier ever since.

Also u have a funny definition there about only plaing games online... just how far that "only" stretches? That's an easy way to offend people and then "innocently" state "I only meant people who play online 24 hours a day, and didn't mean those who do [whatever was mentionted in response]."

I mean people that won't play a game unless it is played online. People who won't play single-player, local  co-op, local MP and won't touch a game that doesn't offer online play and / or ignore any offline features of a game. Does that clarify?

I just want you to know... I didn't intend to respond to this...

I was just going to walk away and get back to my life...

I'm not strong enough to resist the urge to flame.... I'm sorry...

Originally posted by nomadian

 

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Most of the "hardcore" that ONLY play games online don't have any friends in real life

---

 

Erm you do know part of the reason WoW is popular is because of it's 'recruit a friend' scheme, its clever marketing encouraging friends to play together. I really doubt many hardcore players lack friends, that is just being bigoted without a shred of evidence.

I edited for emphasis since you seem to have been ignoring the qualifying clause of that statement. Be honest, Which do you enjoy more?:

1) playing Halo split-screen with friends.

2) playing Halo over Xbox Live.

I'm betting that most of you are going to pick door number one. The rest of you are probably playing locked games with people that you already know in real life.

Judging from the behavior of most players in public games, I'm drawing the conclusion that that no one in their right mind would be able stay within 50 feet of these people without submitting to the primal urge to kick the little bastards directly in the balls. Of course, this isn't just an XBox Live thing as any CS:S player or Barrens chat veteran can attest.

So in conclusion, people that ONLY play games online are incapable of having any kind of real life social network due to being complete douche bags.

Yes the player is getting pleasure, but not from the gameplay.

I partially agree with Blow's statements. The rewards in an MMO are completely arbitrary and could literally be labeled as anything (see the carrot on stick example above). MMO players will keep playing just to get said reward. In other kinds of games, the pleasure is taken from the action of actually playing the game. So, as far as using rewards as a substitute for meaningful play or, worse yet, as a way of padding and prolonging play, Blow is right on the money.

Where I disagree is the fact that most MMO players are more hooked on the community than the game. Most of the "hardcore" that only play games online don't have any friends in real life (mainly because they're assholes) so they plug into MMOs in order to get, at the very least, the simulacrum of social interaction. It's kind of like a virgin calling a phone sex line; not even remotely as good as the real thing, but it scratches the itch. In this regard, the MMO is giving the player exactly what they're looking for by providing a social space online.

But yeah, I agree that the case for exploitation largely depends on the so called victim. If you're a compulsive collector, then you're being exploited. If you're a shut in that can't make friends in real life (or just don't like to bath), then you're getting what you pay for