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All Posts by GeezerGamer

All Posts by GeezerGamer

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Originally posted by Mikeha
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
If only we could agree on what a Sandbox MMO really is.

Wurm Online, ask Notch. http://www.wurmonline.com/

http://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Basic_Knowledge#What_is_Wurm_Online.3F

 

 

This only proves the point of why would devs make a game like Wurm that nobody plays or cares about.

This was my point. Many people say EVE is the sandbox. Others have called Arch Age a Sandbox. SWG was one too. And yet fort all of those examples, I have also seen arguments as to why someone said they weren't.

 

I guess Wrum could be considered a pure sandbox. And on paper it looks like a fantastic game. Until you actually start playing it. Then you will have this desire to log off and sign into your company laptop and start doing work there because it's more fun.

not for nothing, but not everything in your list was viewed as a good thing in older MMOS.
If only we could agree on what a Sandbox MMO really is.
Are they going to make an SDK for it like Skyrim's Creation Kit?

Maybe, But I think it would take at least a minimum of 2 things.

1. The right developer with the right vision at the right time.

2. When technology allows for a quantum shift in the way online gaming is played compared to now.

Even if you really were there, "you are just being nostalgic" anyway. The issue is actually 2-fold. For the most part, the games that were out back then, either don't exist anymore or have changed entirely. So, in the end, It really doesn't matter. I've stopped holding my breath for an Old School MMO. I'm playing FFXIV and rather enjoying it TBH.

If I were a billionaire, I doubt I'd have the time to play MMORPGs.
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

What was hard was getting groups to stay together for hours at a time to complete those large dungeons. And/or working undermanned and with questionable and unknown players in the group.

I find it amusing that part of what you considered hard in early MMORPGs was convincing people they were having enough fun to keep playing.

"It was really hard, but we did it!  We managed to convince the entire group they were having fun for 4 whole hours!"

Having fun and having time are 2 different things. 

Not everything about the older MMOs was good. But neither was it all bad either. 

Most of the arguments in this thread deal in the absolutes, but MMOs are multi-faceted and as with today's games, there is much right and there is much wrong with them. Early 2000s were no different. At least in that regard.

Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by GeezerGamer

What was hard was getting groups to stay together for hours at a time to complete those large dungeons.

What you call hard is in reality symptom of bad game design. Why would people want to leave if they are having fun and if it's within reasonable amounts of time you can expect a normal people to spend playing a video game?

Nerds were doing it an got their "epeen" hard from it, other people were doing it because there was no other choice back then... but nowadays, those same people know better, and the only left are a few nerds who are still able as adults to spend insane amounts of time in a row playing a video game.

Whether or not it was bad design I guess is subjective. Back then, the dungeons were still fun.......assuming you had a Saturday afternoon to blow just doing a single dungeon. Yes, 4 hrs is too long for a singel 5 man instance and they should have been more modular. But to go from that to 20 minutes with zero group coordination needed?, I think the pendulum swinging the other way was also bad design. Violet Hold was, IMO, one of the most poorly designed dungeons in any MMORPG.  To me, that should have been a group quest, not a heroic dungeon.

Note: Just to be clear, I'm not entirely disagreeing with you, I do think they could have been done better. 

Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

... "no life" nerds in a basement thought there finally were "someone" because they wasted years of their life to be the "best" for enduring an awful grind in some video game...

 

Originally posted by HappyFace

I keep reading stuff about length of leveling being tied into MMO difficulty. I don't think I'd call doing tedious tasks over and over again hard. 

Saying stuff like MAN IT TOOK ME 500 HOURS TO HIT LEVEL 2 IT WAS SO HARDCORE AND HARD is a lie.

It's not hard. Its monotonous. 

Devil May Cry 3 on Dante Must Die mode is hard. Yogg +0 and Kael'thas was hard. Thoth-Amon was a challenge. Trying to get the Big Boss Mask in Metal Gear Solid 4 was hard. 

Let's stop spreading this falsehood that length of leveling = difficulty. 

This guy won the thread.

I did Yogg+0 back then, on level, with on level gear. That was indeed hard. There was no grind involved, no other factor, it's the fight itself which was just hard, as in difficult, requiring various skills from everyone in your party.

But grinding mobs for 100 hours to gain one level? That's tedious, not hard. The only hard part is to not fall asleep, or just poke out your own eyes because you are so bored of seeing and grinding the same shit for weeks if not months. And making one mistake out of boredom or one disconnection due to an Internet problem out of your control making you lose one level, all your gear, or more isn't hard either... it's, once again, tedious and boring. And even if people enjoy that, and it's not tedious and boring to them, it's still not hard, it's still not difficult. It's like bashing your face on a wall until the wall breaks.

Yes, some of the "Take a number" camp fest grinds were tedious. But, not everything was like that. And not everything was easy. The only content that were easy but tedious in the old MMORPGs was the soloable content. What was hard was getting groups to stay together for hours at a time to complete those large dungeons. And/or working undermanned and with questionable and unknown players in the group. What was hard was trying to solo content that was not meant to be solo'd but still possible.

 

Not everything about old MMORPGs was easy and not everything was difficult. It's all in how you wish to remember I guess.

I remember when you actually had to go somewhere to do something.
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Soki123

I m not a crafter at all, but I know many that are. I ve never understood why games don t make crafted gear as powerful as raided. It s a playstyle some people like, as is raiding. They ve proven raiders are a small percentage of MMO playerbases.

If crafting is the way someone wants to play, they should have that option. Besides does it really effect raiders?

Its VERY simple.  People take the Path of least resistance.  So if people can get raid gear from just crafting, people will craft and get that gear.  Look at WOW right now.  People that are not the hardest core raiders today do nothing but LFR.  I know I have a handful of friends in WOW in different guilds who cannot get what was considered and Average Raider during Vanilla, TBC or Even WOTLK to raid anything more than LFR today.  WHY?  Because like several of my friends who love WOW and they use to be raiders with me during the first 4 to 6 years of WOW, because WOW lets them raid when they want with no effort involved and they get the same gear as everyone else.  Just not as powerful.  So what are my friends doing LFR then moving up into higher levels of raiding that are being lazy.  F no they are not Bitching they have to queue to raid and want more raid gear from sending their champions out from their garrison because not LFR raiding takes to much time.  

 

Sorry but if you are not willing to put some effort in you do not deserve raid gear.  Guess what this is coming from a fairly casual raider in myself.  Why?  Because when I offered my friends who just want to LFR shit a normal raiding guild during MOP guess what I was told.  4 hours a week 2 days 2 hours each day and learning the boss fights is too much work vs LFR and LFR gives them Epic gear.  These are the same people who raided with me years before and guess what, no they don't have less time most of them were first time parents during Vanilla WOW and TBC when raiding took a lot more time, their kids are now getting up to double digits and dont take but maybe 1 or 2 days a week for them.  They play just about as much in game however ALL solo.  

 

Sorry the whole solo shit in MMOs needs to go away.  FFXIV is showing that they can do group content right and if you want the best gear during Current content you need to put a little effort in.  And guess what you can do 2 days 2 hours a day to get all the content down.  Their raids are timed so you cannot really have long raid sessions or anything.  And the raids are 8 man so its not hard to get 8 people.  

Yes, but that can be balanced out if you allow crafters who want to raid with crafted gear to upgrade, improve or craft gear with non-tradeable mats that drop from instances.

This allows people like me who enjoy the reward of saying "I made it myself" who want to experience all the content and compete with everyone else without being able to "take the path of least resistance".

O yes you can.  The core problem is when stuff like Plans in WOW use to drop from bosses in WOW people bitched up a storm about it.  Well I ONLY want to CRAFT and NEVER want to RAID.  So these people complained endlessly and well thats why we got the situation we do where people want stuff now and in the easiest way possible so systems are not designed for that.  It is really sad.  I would consider myself more of a Softcore raider.   I have a casual schedule, I know what needs to be done and will get it done if not week 1 ok np, if it takes a few weeks as long as we are making progress Good I am game.  The problem is when you get like 1 guy I know who is complaining now he has to queue for gear why not send a NPC to raid for him and get him gear things have gone in the work direction.  Its like guys I played hockey with who wanted a Trophy, they wanted it yet they would not show for games and some wouldnt try at all.  Yet that wanted it.  

 

Anyways I sent you a message here.

Have you ever played Anarchy Online and thus familiar with The Engineer's Pistol?

This is one of my favorite concepts in MMO crafting. Your 1st weapon stays with you through out your whole game. It was a bitch to keep up to date, but if you kept with it, you were rewarded with one of the best endgame weapons available. But it was absolutely NOT the path of least resistance. There was a lot of camping  and mob grinding involved, but I loved it. I miss this kind of rewarding experience in MMOs.

 

Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Soki123

I m not a crafter at all, but I know many that are. I ve never understood why games don t make crafted gear as powerful as raided. It s a playstyle some people like, as is raiding. They ve proven raiders are a small percentage of MMO playerbases.

If crafting is the way someone wants to play, they should have that option. Besides does it really effect raiders?

Its VERY simple.  People take the Path of least resistance.  So if people can get raid gear from just crafting, people will craft and get that gear.  Look at WOW right now.  People that are not the hardest core raiders today do nothing but LFR.  I know I have a handful of friends in WOW in different guilds who cannot get what was considered and Average Raider during Vanilla, TBC or Even WOTLK to raid anything more than LFR today.  WHY?  Because like several of my friends who love WOW and they use to be raiders with me during the first 4 to 6 years of WOW, because WOW lets them raid when they want with no effort involved and they get the same gear as everyone else.  Just not as powerful.  So what are my friends doing LFR then moving up into higher levels of raiding that are being lazy.  F no they are not Bitching they have to queue to raid and want more raid gear from sending their champions out from their garrison because not LFR raiding takes to much time.  

 

Sorry but if you are not willing to put some effort in you do not deserve raid gear.  Guess what this is coming from a fairly casual raider in myself.  Why?  Because when I offered my friends who just want to LFR shit a normal raiding guild during MOP guess what I was told.  4 hours a week 2 days 2 hours each day and learning the boss fights is too much work vs LFR and LFR gives them Epic gear.  These are the same people who raided with me years before and guess what, no they don't have less time most of them were first time parents during Vanilla WOW and TBC when raiding took a lot more time, their kids are now getting up to double digits and dont take but maybe 1 or 2 days a week for them.  They play just about as much in game however ALL solo.  

 

Sorry the whole solo shit in MMOs needs to go away.  FFXIV is showing that they can do group content right and if you want the best gear during Current content you need to put a little effort in.  And guess what you can do 2 days 2 hours a day to get all the content down.  Their raids are timed so you cannot really have long raid sessions or anything.  And the raids are 8 man so its not hard to get 8 people.  

Yes, but that can be balanced out if you allow crafters who want to raid with crafted gear to upgrade, improve or craft gear with non-tradeable mats that drop from instances.

This allows people like me who enjoy the reward of saying "I made it myself" who want to experience all the content and compete with everyone else without being able to "take the path of least resistance".

Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by Foomerang  

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by Foomerang I'm glad so many people like it. It's an amazing comeback story. Unfortunately, the forced combat ended up driving me away.  
Wow!   I held off on purchasing this expansion. I wanted to wait to see how it fleshed out 1st. I have seen what expansions can do to a crafting system in other MMORPGs. and I was concerned that crafting here would also be impacted and not for the better. I've read reviews that say crafting seems "irrelevant" now. And to see you leave the game has not inspired me to purchase the expansion or even resub.   Are there any MMORPGs left where crafting is still important?    
Crafting and gathering are still important in this game and very well done. Unfortunately it is gated behind combat content so I'd rather do something else with my free time.   No need to defend myself against the name callers. You know me better than they do heh.
Yes, you and I have chatted in-game before, That's why I take your opinion seriously on this issue.

 

While we have different motivations for crafting, we both enjoy a comprehensive crafting system. So while you may not enjoy this game anymore, It does still sound like it might appeal to me.


 

Absolutely. Give it a shot :)

I decided to.....Downloading now

Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by Foomerang I'm glad so many people like it. It's an amazing comeback story. Unfortunately, the forced combat ended up driving me away.  
Wow!

 

I held off on purchasing this expansion. I wanted to wait to see how it fleshed out 1st. I have seen what expansions can do to a crafting system in other MMORPGs. and I was concerned that crafting here would also be impacted and not for the better.

I've read reviews that say crafting seems "irrelevant" now. And to see you leave the game has not inspired me to purchase the expansion or even resub.

 

Are there any MMORPGs left where crafting is still important?

 

 



Crafting and gathering are still important in this game and very well done. Unfortunately it is gated behind combat content so I'd rather do something else with my free time.

 

No need to defend myself against the name callers. You know me better than they do heh.

Yes, you and I have chatted in-game before, That's why I take your opinion seriously on this issue.

While we have different motivations for crafting, we both enjoy a comprehensive crafting system. So while you may not enjoy this game anymore, It does still sound like it might appeal to me.

Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Foomerang

I'm glad so many people like it. It's an amazing comeback story.

Unfortunately, the forced combat ended up driving me away.

 

Wow!

I held off on purchasing this expansion. I wanted to wait to see how it fleshed out 1st. I have seen what expansions can do to a crafting system in other MMORPGs. and I was concerned that crafting here would also be impacted and not for the better.

I've read reviews that say crafting seems "irrelevant" now. And to see you leave the game has not inspired me to purchase the expansion or even resub.

 

Are there any MMORPGs left where crafting is still important?

 

 

Geezer I wouldn't listen to Foomerang at all.  He loves to cry about things way too often.  Like what game right now can you ONLY craft and never face combat like people did in UO or SWG?  Not a single game since WOW.  AA is as close to the old school MMOs as they come and AA still forces combat up to level 30.  So Foomerang's complaint its just him complaining that MMOs have evolved because they are no longer like UO or SWG.  

When it comes to Crafting being important in FFXIV, yes you can make gear that will help people get into raiding faster however that gear is not in this game as of yet, it will be patched in over the course of 2 years.  The Crafting gear though will never be better than current level of raid gear.  Sorry but that is just the way MMOs are designed now where Crafting is no longer the best way of getting accept AA.  Will we ever have crafting like it use to be where I can craft the best Rocket Launchers on a server like I did during SWG.  I dont know; however I know currently that is not possible and I do not complain about it because MMOs being a expensive is they are do not go towards a niche crowd anymore.  

I am not a crafting only person, but I do like to craft my own gear. Assuming that what I can craft is comparable to what can be obtained through other methods, That interests me.

I have played and enjoyed crafting systems where others have not. 

I liked GW2 crafting.......except that it was really more or less a tool for leveling and not really relevant otherwise, but I still could create my own gear.....assuming I could live with a sword that looked like an embellished boat paddle.........LOL

I also enjoyed the crafting system in SWTOR. Not because the system itself was impressive, but that I could create what I wanted based on the effort I put into it.

 

That said.....Does the new XIV expansion work like that? Is crafted gear on par with instanced dropped gear?

Originally posted by Foomerang

I'm glad so many people like it. It's an amazing comeback story.

Unfortunately, the forced combat ended up driving me away.

 

Wow!

I held off on purchasing this expansion. I wanted to wait to see how it fleshed out 1st. I have seen what expansions can do to a crafting system in other MMORPGs. and I was concerned that crafting here would also be impacted and not for the better.

I've read reviews that say crafting seems "irrelevant" now. And to see you leave the game has not inspired me to purchase the expansion or even resub.

 

Are there any MMORPGs left where crafting is still important?

 

 

Originally posted by irnbru69

gotta feel sorry for all the folks in the world that dont have a clue about mmorpg games, who have mobile phones and play games on them.

Seriously who the hell wants to play this game on there phone, does any one on his forum want to actually play this game on there phone ? knowing how pwi run there games Im seriously doubting many mmorpg players want this on there phone.

 

their

Originally posted by anthony21690
Well that was a great way to waste my 1 second living.  

Jdis doesn't like that character.

We all have them and there is nothing wrong with postingt an opinion on disliked characters.

I think my all time least favorite NPC ever has to be.....

YAY?
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